View Full Version : disrespectfull?
as you may know, i work in a gym, at 10.50 we anoused that there would be a 2 min silence att 11am, so at 10.59 i turned the music off and put BBC1 on.
there was only about 5 in the gym, and everyone stopped what they were doing, except 1 woman (from far east), who kept walking on the tredmill, so i told her we were having 2minutes silance, but she ignored me..................... although, she did not talk, i was a bit pi$$ed off she did not stop the tredmill
Mike2165
11-11-07, 11:25 AM
Disrespectful? Yes and I don't want to get into a rant about it, but showing some respect for our war dead in our country isn't hard...If you can't do f.. off out of our too tolerant country. Sorry rant over..for now.
well done Mr Hovis.Could you not have turned the machine off(reads "push the cow off")
Having served in several conflicts for my country and come home again minus a few colleagues I do remember our fallen soldiers both recent and past. I do not however observe the two minute silence. I think about them many times through out the year. I think about them often when watching the news about yet another mindless yobbo who has mugged and killed some old bloke down the road. That old bloke quite possibly a war veteran himself who risked his life and survived so that this mindless yobbo could be free to do what he did.
I find it all rather pointless. It all seems a bit of "I kept quite for a couple of minutes so I've done my bit" and then everyone carries on again without a second thought. I've seen them all do it at work. Mid joke, two minute silence, finish joke as though the two minutes never happened.
I have had sheer disgust looks from other people because I haven't "respected" those that have given their life for our country. But those giving me the evils have probably never served, put their own life on the line for others and wouldn't give another thought about those that have died until same time next year for another two minutes.
Well, that's my thoughts on the subject. I shall refrain from further comment as I almost undoubtedly will be in the minority and will be slated for my comments.
i think as you've served big you'll not get slated, it commendable you are a strong enough character to not care what others think, it'd be easy just to think "oh sod it, i'll do as others are, just to keep the peace"
Having served in several conflicts for my country and come home again minus a few colleagues I do remember our fallen soldiers both recent and past. I do not however observe the two minute silence. I think about them many times through out the year. I think about them often when watching the news about yet another mindless yobbo who has mugged and killed some old bloke down the road. That old bloke quite possibly a war veteran himself who risked his life and survived so that this mindless yobbo could be free to do what he did.
I find it all rather pointless. It all seems a bit of "I kept quite for a couple of minutes so I've done my bit" and then everyone carries on again without a second thought. I've seen them all do it at work. Mid joke, two minute silence, finish joke as though the two minutes never happened.
I have had sheer disgust looks from other people because I haven't "respected" those that have given their life for our country. But those giving me the evils have probably never served, put their own life on the line for others and wouldn't give another thought about those that have died until same time next year for another two minutes.
Well, that's my thoughts on the subject. I shall refrain from further comment as I almost undoubtedly will be in the minority and will be slated for my comments.
We live in a democracy and I an glad that we all have the right to hold our own views.
Having served in several conflicts for my country and come home again minus a few colleagues I do remember our fallen soldiers both recent and past. I do not however observe the two minute silence. I think about them many times through out the year. I think about them often when watching the news about yet another mindless yobbo who has mugged and killed some old bloke down the road. That old bloke quite possibly a war veteran himself who risked his life and survived so that this mindless yobbo could be free to do what he did.
I find it all rather pointless. It all seems a bit of "I kept quite for a couple of minutes so I've done my bit" and then everyone carries on again without a second thought. I've seen them all do it at work. Mid joke, two minute silence, finish joke as though the two minutes never happened.
I have had sheer disgust looks from other people because I haven't "respected" those that have given their life for our country. But those giving me the evils have probably never served, put their own life on the line for others and wouldn't give another thought about those that have died until same time next year for another two minutes.
Well, that's my thoughts on the subject. I shall refrain from further comment as I almost undoubtedly will be in the minority and will be slated for my comments.
I wouldnt worry about it mate, you,ve done yer bit, the thing that ****es me off these days is that the only people who seem to give a rats **** about our forces are servicemen, ex serviceman and there wives and families, tbh I dont believe a word out out most civvies mouth when they say 'how concerned they are', yeah right
Having served in several conflicts for my country and come home again minus a few colleagues I do remember our fallen soldiers both recent and past. I do not however observe the two minute silence. I think about them many times through out the year. .
i see your point........... and maybe the woman in the gym also served in conflicts, and has the same veiws as you? (which i doubt)
i just think she should have stopped for the 2 minutes
I took part in a remberance parade this morning with my Scout group. It is the only time I attend church. It was a good turn out which is nice to see. Shows that there are still a lot of decent kids out there.
Ch00
DanAbnormal
11-11-07, 12:45 PM
Sorry Hovis but I fail to see why we should force our views upon others. If you want to observe it crack on, but why does that mean everyone else should? Last time I checked we still live in a democratic society. Besides, if she is foreign then why should she observe it? Never judge a book by it's cover, an old cliche but it is so true, as Mr Ape demonstrates. While I served in the Armed forces I was lucky enough not to have to go to war. That said I lost a few friends who served in Bosnia and also Afghanistan and think about them often. I also don't really observe the minutes silence but it has nothing to do with respect.
Spiderman
11-11-07, 01:08 PM
As a foreigner i dont observe the 2 mins silence either..
I wasnt born in this country and no one gave their life for ME as an individual. They fought for what they belived in at the time not so that i could come and live here many years later.
Also there are many people, foreigners and brits alike who are very upset by the UKs foreign policy ad see wearing a poppy or observing a silence as a complicit agreement to foreign policy..
Maybe this lady and others like her should be allowed to do what the hell they please as opposed to having some narrow minded person giving her dirty looks cos shes still walking.
tell me, do you expect everyone walkign along the street to stop too? Or all traffic to stop for that matter?
I agree far more with Big Ape...whats the point if life carries on as it was right afterward? Is just sheep being sheep and doing as they are expected to. Yet for the rest of the year most of those same people probably watch the news and all the death...weather it be brit/afghan/iraqi just washes over them.
I also know plenty of brits who keep their poppy for "next year" yet surely the whole point of the poppy is to BUY one EVERY year to give money to the charity, no?
Yet these peeps just wanna be seen as "fitting in" so they dont get ridiculed, they actually couldnt give a damn about those who gave their lives.
So tell me again why this lady should have stopped walking?
tigersaw
11-11-07, 01:21 PM
So tell me again why this lady should have stopped walking?
Because Hovis will now ensure she has a miserable time at every opportunity.-As I would too, she may not have any respect for the occasion, but should show some consideration towards the other people present.
Spiderman
11-11-07, 01:31 PM
Because Hovis will now ensure she has a miserable time at every opportunity.-As I would too, she may not have any respect for the occasion, but should show some consideration towards the other people present.
But its a 2 minute SILENCE and the lady in question showed her consideration by not saying "Oi, turn that bloddy telly off i dont want to know about these things!" or anything like that did she?
No she allowed it to happen around her and kept her mouth shut...but she didnt stop walking and now shes going to be persecuted by Hovis for it?
How sad.
gettin2dizzy
11-11-07, 01:38 PM
I also know plenty of brits who keep their poppy for "next year" yet surely the whole point of the poppy is to BUY one EVERY year to give money to the charity, no?
Yet these peeps just wanna be seen as "fitting in" so they dont get ridiculed, they actually couldnt give a damn about those who gave their lives.
So tell me again why this lady should have stopped walking?
It's like when everyone on TV has a poppy on - and you just know their agent put it on seconds before they went in front of a camera. The great media delusion.
It's two minutes to reflect on everyone lost in every war. It's not necessary, it's not law, but if you're in a place with others respecting the atrocities taken place in history then take notice. Whether that means stopping running simply to keep the room quiet or turn your bike engine off for passers by in the street, it's a little effort that means a lot.
as it says a minutes silence. the woman was not talking. she could well have been thinking about those lost in the war or maybe doesnt give a hoot. either way its her choice. 2 min silence is a lot of mince I feel. most people will not be thinking about those lost in the war during the silence. I agree with it when you are at some sort of parade, I used to do the parade at the guild hall in portsmouth when in the wrens. It meant something then and was a very sombre occassion but stopping work or gym or shopping and standing there means nothing really.
the kids at the school sat quietly but didnt know why. I feel they should be informed about why they are doing it as opposed to just when the bell rings stop talking, when bell rings again carry on.
oh and I carried on talking quiety during the silence as a child was having a reaction to nuts. those around me were flapping their arms to get me to shut up. oh sorry boy can you choke quietly Ill deal with you in 2 minutes.
all fair comments, & i relise that she may have been thinking about the victims of war...........
i just feel that as she was in a public place, and everybody else in the gym stoped what they were doing, she should have done so, she did get the odd look off a few people.
Spiderman
11-11-07, 02:09 PM
It's two minutes to reflect on everyone lost in every war. It's not necessary, it's not law, but if you're in a place with others respecting the atrocities taken place in history then take notice. Whether that means stopping running simply to keep the room quiet or turn your bike engine off for passers by in the street, it's a little effort that means a lot.
No, as Kitkat said its supposed to be 1 minute traditionaly and its not to remember everyone lost in every war at all.
The noun Remembrance Sunday has one meaning:
Meaning #1: (United Kingdom and Canada) the Sunday nearest to November 11 when those who died in World War I and World War II are commemorated
And as you can seee its only "celebrated" in Canada and UK so how does that cover everyone lost in every war?
And now you suggest that i should turn the bike engine off for passers by? Are you some kind of nuts? I work in the West End...do you think busses and taxis stop running for 2 mins? yet you expect that i should turn my bike off to please narrow minded fools like you?
FFS grow up and think before you post or at least check some facts before you think you can tell others what this day is all about.
No, as Kitkat said its supposed to be 1 minute traditionaly and its not to remember everyone lost in every war at all.
The noun Remembrance Sunday has one meaning:
Meaning #1: (United Kingdom and Canada) the Sunday nearest to November 11 when those who died in World War I and World War II are commemorated
.
On the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month in 1918 the guns of Europe fell silent. After four years of the most bitter and devastating fighting, The Great War was finally over. The Armistice was signed at 5am in a railway carriage in the Forest of Compiegne, France on November 11, 1918. Six hours later, at 11am, the war ended.
The first Remembrance Day was conducted in 1919 throughout Britain and the Commonwealth. Originally called Armistice Day, it commemorated the end of hostilities the previous year. It came to symbolise the end of the war and provide an opportunity to remember those who had died.
After the end of the Second World War in 1945 Armistice Day became Remembrance Day to include all those who had fallen in the two World Wars and later conflicts.
gettin2dizzy
11-11-07, 02:41 PM
No, as Kitkat said its supposed to be 1 minute traditionaly and its not to remember everyone lost in every war at all.
The noun Remembrance Sunday has one meaning:
Meaning #1: (United Kingdom and Canada) the Sunday nearest to November 11 when those who died in World War I and World War II are commemorated
And as you can seee its only "celebrated" in Canada and UK so how does that cover everyone lost in every war?
And now you suggest that i should turn the bike engine off for passers by? Are you some kind of nuts? I work in the West End...do you think busses and taxis stop running for 2 mins? yet you expect that i should turn my bike off to please narrow minded fools like you?
FFS grow up and think before you post or at least check some facts before you think you can tell others what this day is all about.
It was stated as an open-ended comment not a firm statement; relating to what to do in the right situation. I wouldn't drive past a memorial parade with an exhaust blaring if I could avoid it.
If I was working driving through busy streets then I would carry on; life does. I wouldn't however dress as a German soldier and walk through a synagogue.
And Christmas is celebrating the birth of Jesus? Traditional events take on additional or varied roles over time. To remember strictly the people who fought for you personally is a very selfish view. I'm neither Jewish or German yet the holocaust deserves some serious thought.
markmoto
11-11-07, 03:03 PM
](*,)
As a foreigner i dont observe the 2 mins silence either..
I wasnt born in this country and no one gave their life for ME as an individual. They fought for what they belived in at the time not so that i could come and live here many years later.
So tell me again why this lady should have stopped walking?
I think the reasons are these:
If those people HADN'T given their lives, a) it is probable that you would not have been allowed to come to this country at all; b) if you had been allowed, you might have found yourself raising the right arm to salute a man with a tooth-brush moustache, or risk being carted off in a freight train to be turned into fertiliser like a few of my relatives; and c) without those deaths, your right and freedom to express the views you HAVE expressed would be non-existent.
As for being a "foreigner", doubtless you will be familiar with St Ambrose's advice that, when in Rome, one should live as the Romans. It's the bit of advice that ensures that even the most ghastly British Tourist takes off his shoes when entering a Mosque or Temple overseas.....being a "foreigner" is hardly an excuse them to not comply, and you shouldn't use it either.
As for Big Ape, he's fully earned the right to do whatever he wants.
And now you suggest that i should turn the bike engine off for passers by? Are you some kind of nuts? I work in the West End...do you think busses and taxis stop running for 2 mins? yet you expect that i should turn my bike off to please narrow minded fools like you?
FFS grow up and think before you post or at least check some facts before you think you can tell others what this day is all about.
I Had to think hard before I really said something to start things off, not only did you misread what he said but you throw your toys out the pram and start insulting him :smt018:smt018
My I suggest you take your own advice
Spiderman
11-11-07, 03:34 PM
I wouldn't drive past a memorial parade with an exhaust blaring if I could avoid it......
I wouldn't however dress as a German soldier and walk through a synagogue.
FFS i kill my engine and coast past horses on the road so as not to spook them and i'd do the same if i was passing ANY kind of mermorial or funeral. its called "decency" and has nothing to do with poppys or soldiers.
And only someone with serious mental issues would do the other thing....so well done to you for saying you wouldnt do what 99.999999999999999999% of the genral public wouldnt do either :roll:
I think the reasons are these:
If those people HADN'T given their lives, a) it is probable that you would not have been allowed to come to this country at all; b) if you had been allowed, you might have found yourself raising the right arm to salute a man with a tooth-brush moustache, or risk being carted off in a freight train to be turned into fertiliser like a few of my relatives; and c) without those deaths, your right and freedom to express the views you HAVE expressed would be non-existent.
As for being a "foreigner", doubtless you will be familiar with St Ambrose's advice that, when in Rome, one should live as the Romans. It's the bit of advice that ensures that even the most ghastly British Tourist takes off his shoes when entering a Mosque or Temple overseas.....being a "foreigner" is hardly an excuse them to not comply, and you shouldn't use it either.
As for Big Ape, he's fully earned the right to do whatever he wants.
Erm i was born in the early 70s and the world as it was then had nothing to do with me. Free speech and this country's geo-politcal situation were then pretty much as they are now.
The reason why our family came here at the time was the belief the the british education system was the best in the world and my parents wanted me and my brother to be able to enjoy that education and they paid very handsomly for us to do so.
If England had been any diffrent then their reasons for comming here would not have existed and if england was a part of nazi germant as germany had won the war then i'm sure my parents would have made the choice for education and taken us somewhere that had a great education to offer.
As for the "when in rome" thing...i whole heartedly agree. When i moved to live in Spain one of the first things i did was to try and learn Spanish. I also think it should be a vital part of the UK immigration policy that all newcomers here do the same and if they dont wish to integrate into the society they moved to then they can damn well go back to their own countries.
Ive witnessed planty of ghastly British tourists trample all over the culture and virtues of countries they are in so i dont see why you think the "brits abroad" are any better than any other foreigner abroad.
And i never use the fact i'm a foreigner as an ecxuse not to comply with anything.
I explain to you why it has no significance for me is all...or should i pretend it does just to please people.
Big Ape has earned the right o do what he pleases....and so have i. You have no idea of what i've done im my life and i'm not here to give you my life story but the fact is that i'm a living breathing human being and entirlely capable of making my own decisions based on my own beliefs.
I'm not a sheep who just does what everyone else does just cos everyone else is doing it too. If i believe in something i'll do it, if i dont i wont.
husky03
11-11-07, 03:48 PM
So your parents came here due to the education system that ,most likely would not have been in place if thousands hadn't given there lives in the defence of OUR country-I feel your tone in your posts display a dislike for certain things regarding the UK.If you don't like it-
Spiderman
11-11-07, 04:01 PM
So your parents came here due to the education system that ,most likely would not have been in place if thousands hadn't given there lives in the defence of OUR country-I feel your tone in your posts display a dislike for certain things regarding the UK.If you don't like it-
You missed my point... they didnt come here seeking "freedom" or anything like that they made a simple choice of where they belived was, at the time, best for education.
If this country was "free" and had rubish education we would have gone elsewhere.
if this country wasnt "free" and had rubish education we would have gone elsewhere.
The fcat is that this all happended way before i was born and a choice was made by my parents.
There are plenty of things i dont like regarding the UK thank you...one of them being small minded people who feel i, and that lady in the gym, should "comply" even if i have very good reasons for not choosing to do so.
As a foreigner i dont observe the 2 mins silence either..
And i never use the fact i'm a foreigner as an ecxuse not to comply with anything.
Those classes in "logical thought" worked well then......:)
Spiderman
11-11-07, 04:25 PM
nice try but not quite.
I explain that i was not born here to give you an understanding of my point of view.
I never said BECAUSE i was born esewhere i SHOULDN'T have to do this. That would be using it as an excuse no to comply.
But because i was born elsewhere and have lived in other countries i dont have such an insular point of view or one sideedness to this issue and thus CHOOSE not to buy a poppy or observe a silence.
My choice based on my views and not a blanket coverage of "i'm foreign...i shouldnt have to" now is it?
husky03
11-11-07, 04:29 PM
There are plenty of things i dont like regarding the UK thank you...one of them being small minded people who feel i, and that lady in the gym, should "comply" even if i have very good reasons for not choosing to do so.
Not a case of complying:smt018-its about what this thread was started about-Respect-respect for the people who have given there lives.
As for small minded-if you can't understand what Rememberance Sunday is about then its blatantly obvious who has the small mind.
Husky
Spiderman
11-11-07, 04:40 PM
I'll show my respect to those deserving of it in my own way....not by standing still when whats asked for is silence.
The point of the question was that the lady carried on walking during a time of silence. So what? She was silent wasnt she?
Tell me something, did you...any of you, mark the recent Hiroshima anniversary? With a silence or anything else?
And bear in mind this was the OLNY time in histroy where atomic weapons have been used...and they were used against civilains on a small island.
The island itself only having been chosen from a shortlist of 3 that morning because it had the least cloud cover and would "look better on film" to the american planes cirlcing it taking photos and video?
Point i'm making here is that you (as a country) dont honour that memorial becasue none of your soldiers fell during it. I dont honour the poppy memorial cos none of my ancestors fell during that.
leemole
11-11-07, 04:43 PM
spiderman look at the title of the thread and IMO you are
Big Ape has earned the right to do what he pleases.....
i cant say i agree with that,
because he has been in the army (&fought for it)does not give anyone the right to ignore this mark of respect,(i would have thought it would make you more aware of it)
if he choices to ignore it that is up to him,but cant see the relivance in ignoring it due to being in the army
but would he continue to do what he was doing, if all around him were stoped in silance ?
Pedrosa
11-11-07, 04:57 PM
i cant say i agree with that,
just because he has been in the army does not give anyone the right to ignore this mark of respect,(i would have thought it would make you more aware of it)
if he choices to ignore it that is up to him,but cant see the relivance in ignoring it due to being in the army
but would he continue to do what he was doing, if all around him were stoped in silance ?
I say this has been a tadge heated on occasion hasn't it? This caused me to be most hesitant before popping my head around the door.
I thnk perhaps for many the problem might lie in the ritual of the specific 2 minutes on a specific day of the year. A tradition that many today might feel outdated and so a degree of resistance is seen.
Last week here in Spain there was a bank holiday, this particular day is traditionally one where people more than usual contemplate their lost one's. It is not something that sees those that have passed away pigeon holed in to categories...i.e war dead etc. Rather than meet in town squares people will if possible visit the graves of lost one's or,(in the case of road accident losses) the scene of the accident. The key thing is that whatever people do, they do it in their own way. That does not make their "remembrance" any less sincere at all.
A guy once said to me when I was a lot younger..."Pah Remembrance Sunday and Poppies, all it is,is the glorification of war." But I think he got it so wrong. Most people who lose their lives as a result of wars, had no say in their destiny at all. Soldiers are given orders, civilians just get very unlucky or treated shockingly as in WW2. Hardly any of them would if able to, suggest that war be celebrated.
Not sure if I have made a contribution of any value or what my main point was tbh.:rolleyes:
dirtydog
11-11-07, 05:06 PM
lets get this straight here shall we? Right the woman on the treadmill was silent, it's a minutes silence not a minute of sopping everything that you're doing so no she wasn't being disrespectfull.
Bigape has served for this country and lost friends and comrades whilst doing so, as he says he thinks about these people a lot, he doesn't need to be told that he has to pay his respects to fallen soldiers at a certain time, he will be respectfull of them for the rest of his life
Now spiderman, that is his opinion and he is entitled to it just as everyone is entitked to their opinion. Would i stop what i was doing? No and I didn't today either how ever i was silent to say stop your bike at the side of the road is just stupid and that's my opinion!
Well Oiled
11-11-07, 05:07 PM
[quote=Spiderman;1337552]
Tell me something, did you...any of you, mark the recent Hiroshima anniversary? With a silence or anything else?
[quote]
No, but if I was on a treadmill in a Japanese gym and everyone else stopped to observe a minute's silence for it, I'd show a bit of respect and consideration, and do the same.
Spiderman
11-11-07, 05:08 PM
spiderman look at the title of the thread and IMO you are
Your opinion and youre totaly entitled to it.
I dont go thru my life trying to be PC and middle of the road to fit in. I have my views and if you choose to think that of me then feel free to. Trust me that i wont loose any sleep over it.
Pedrosa, see that has a lot more meaning to me because its an occasion for ALL people to remember people they lost in their own ways.
if i choose to remember the life of freind my by doing cartwheels up and down a beach then noone is there to say "ooh how disrespectful"
Same way, just cos i dont sit quietly for a minute for 2 doesnt mean i dont give a sh*t, which is waht everyone seems to think i think.
i cant say i agree with that,
because he has been in the army (&fought for it)does not give anyone the right to ignore this mark of respect,(i would have thought it would make you more aware of it)
if he choices to ignore it that is up to him,but cant see the relivance in ignoring it due to being in the army
but would he continue to do what he was doing, if all around him were stoped in silance ?
Tbh i dont see it as ignoring it, bigape and any other guys/girls that have served or are still serving,have to live with what they saw/heard etc for the rest of their lives-and that incs my own dad, them not observing the 2 mins of silence isnt going to take away the years of memories and thoughts these guys have near enough every single day of their lives about those they served with.
Thats my input.
As a foreigner i dont observe the 2 mins silence either..
I wasnt born in this country and no one gave their life for ME as an individual.
?
so.......... where were you born,to say this?
Tbh i dont see it as ignoring it. perhaps ignore was the wrong word to use,
metalmonkey
11-11-07, 05:21 PM
Well I was work today up against as usual to get the paper work done, I looked up at the clock the 2 minutes had just ended.......
I have talked with my grandad about what happened to him, he is lucky to alive and saved a fair few people along the way. I used to go to marches as a kid, with scouts.
Well you can't make people do it, but may I suggest people have their own way of dealing with things like this. But these guys gave everything to make sure we can have a debate like this, nuff said.
Spiderman
11-11-07, 05:23 PM
so.......... where were you born,to say this?
Uh, not here. Thats all you need to know for the purposes of this thread. The actual location is irrelevant in many ways.
Countries are the designs of men...i prefer to think of myself as a child of this planet. Born before men drew lines on maps and said "this bit is mine and its called......"
Everyone is my brother or my sister :D
I have been to a few conflict areas and lost one friend i knew from my regiment, I dont care what others do i observe the silence and remember all fallen for all conflicts and the lad i knew a bit more.
TBH do what you want , the only time i would get offended is if someone started gobing off that they were glad about the dead in Iraq, afgan and other places. I dont think they would be talking very well for much longer after it !
leemole
11-11-07, 05:29 PM
being world war surely your family would have been involved ??? no ???
Spiderman
11-11-07, 05:44 PM
....
TBH do what you want , the only time i would get offended is if someone started gobing off that they were glad about the dead in Iraq, afgan and other places. I dont think they would be talking very well for much longer after it !
Yeh people like that really get to me too. Time and a place to air your views about things. I remember that documentary not long about about the "devout" christians in america who go to army funerals and shout and scream what a good thing it is that that person is dead. Theirs is a religious belief and because of that THEY get police protection when i agree with you...they need a punch in the mouth.
Uh, not here. Thats all you need to know for the purposes of this thread. The actual location is irrelevant in many ways.
:D
being world war surely your family would have been involved ??? no ???
:confused:
Spiderman
11-11-07, 06:01 PM
By that you assume that EVERY single country in the world was at war with someone or another at the time?
I dont think it was quite like that tho i'm sure most countries had their allegences(sp)
gettin2dizzy
11-11-07, 06:13 PM
Yeh people like that really get to me too. Time and a place to air your views about things. I remember that documentary not long about about the "devout" christians in america who go to army funerals and shout and scream what a good thing it is that that person is dead. Theirs is a religious belief and because of that THEY get police protection when i agree with you...they need a punch in the mouth.
Thankfully they have just been prosecuted! A rare victory against Christianity in America.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2783974.ece
Yeh people like that really get to me too. Time and a place to air your views about things. I remember that documentary not long about about the "devout" christians in america who go to army funerals and shout and scream what a good thing it is that that person is dead. Theirs is a religious belief and because of that THEY get police protection when i agree with you...they need a punch in the mouth.
Yeah fair enough you dont agree with why that man/woman ws over there but the family are still grieving just as much as if their son/daughter sister/brother had been murdered in the street.
By that you assume that EVERY single country in the world was at war with someone or another at the time?
)
apparantly the UK has been involved in a conflict somewhere for every year for a few hundered now!!
redbouy
11-11-07, 07:38 PM
As a ex service person, {NZ] it was ANZAC day that was our big day, I now follow Uk for today. when in the US i follow thier day. I bit of respect for the counrty your in and the big brother which does include air force army navy police fire. all of them have at some time been killed and carry on being killled for our safety.
I too served in the forces. I was fortunate enough not to be involved in any conflict and have not lost any friends in hostile territory.
I do not think anyone who has served has earned the right to not observe a silence in respect of the 2 world wars. But that is not what this is about, everyone is entitled to a freedom of choice thats our democratic right. If some choose to remember friends and colleagues all year round not just on one day a year thats is there right.
For me the original issue was Hovis asking about whether the woman should have stopped. Originally I would have said yes she should however, hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is, I think she did observe the silence and arguably she did not interfere with other peoples silence.
So in conclusion I personally feel it is important that we remember those that have lost there lives serving our country, such that we can exercise the freedom we do today. If people choose not to that is there choice I would just like to think that they observe the choice of those that do and not disrupt what they believe in. If we didn't have this annual point of reference I think it would all too easy for future generations to forget the casualties that world war brings.
I hope that comes across in the right way I'm not putting anyone down.
21QUEST
11-11-07, 08:50 PM
Personally, I don't see many reason why she just couldn't have observed it.
Two minutes wasn't exactly going to put in jeopady her plan of getting rid of the roll of fat she has around her middle.....just my 2 cents worth.
Ben
redbouy
11-11-07, 09:57 PM
Today is not about the 1st or the 2nd ww. it is to remember everyone.
lest we forget. when the sun goes down.
Personally, I don't see many reason why she just couldn't have observed it.
Two minutes wasn't exactly going to put in jeopady her plan of getting rid of the roll of fat she has around her middle.....just my 2 cents worth.
Ben
erm...
am i understanding this incorrectly? she was silent. she went about her business, silently in voice yet maybe making a noise whilst keeping fit. she;s deemed by some disrespectful? i think its a case of one mans meat is another mans poison, to some she was to some she wasnt. i think the fact she was in a gym where everybody fell silent AND stopped what they were doing whilst she continued to rumble along the rolling road exentuated her actions
isnt that the point we're debating? not where spiderman comes from?
christ im so drunk. im tempted to delete all this but think i'll press submit reply for posterity and to encourage me not to drink on a school nte
and i've no idea why 21quest has been quoted in my message. my mistake
I think that the Royal British Legion has scored a major coup in getting a 2 minute silence. It's hardly asking much of people to stop what they're doing for 2 minutes once a year but for some it will be impractical for whatever reason - you wouldn't expect a nurse or a train driver to down tools. Yes we are a free country so you can do what you like but I don't think it much to ask for people to remember how and why we're free. If everyone did it as and when they felt like it well there'd be no point in Remembrance Sunday and we might as well tell Her Majesty to stay in Buckingham Palace.
To suggest that it somehow doesn't apply to people who were born after WW2 or after Suez or after whichever conflict you care to name, or because the country was already free when they came here - well that's not the England I was born in and grew up in.
Remembering our war dead is one of the few things that binds us together as a country. There aren't that many any more: people don't respect institutions, the Church, the Government. And in most cases for good reason, as respect has to be earned but for some time now it has been abused. I worry that there will soon be nothing to bind us together, and if we all think we can opt out of a mere 2 minutes, where does it stop?
In our house we watched the Queen in London last night and again this morning on TV and we thought that the whole thing had an air of great dignity.
I'm in the Hovis camp. Yes, the woman in the gym was disrespectful.
dizzyblonde
11-11-07, 11:38 PM
Not read all of the posts, just the first page. I d think the woman in Hovis's gym was disrespectful, and out of respect for our war hero's i would have liked to have turned up her treadmill.....................
then she'd have got the message
Pedrosa
12-11-07, 07:58 AM
Not read all of the posts, just the first page. I d think the woman in Hovis's gym was disrespectful, and out of respect for our war hero's i would have liked to have turned up her treadmill.....................
?
then she'd have got the message
But what if she genuinely did not understand what was going on? G2D mentions that she was "far eastern'" It is then very possible that she had no grasp of the situation at all. She might have simply thought it odd that the music was changed for err nothing and everyone else decided to stand still and stop exercising?
In her confusion she might have simply hoped that by keeping going on the treadmill, she could put some distance between herself and the other people in the gym?
And what if you were in a foreign land and saw a silent parade of some sort? Would you instantly fall in to silence yourself despite not actually knowing what it was all about? Does ignorance automatically make someone disrespectfull?:rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
12-11-07, 08:21 AM
But what if she genuinely did not understand what was going on? G2D mentions that she was "far eastern'" It is then very possible that she had no grasp of the situation at all. She might have simply thought it odd that the music was changed for err nothing and everyone else decided to stand still and stop exercising?
In her confusion she might have simply hoped that by keeping going on the treadmill, she could put some distance between herself and the other people in the gym?
And what if you were in a foreign land and saw a silent parade of some sort? Would you instantly fall in to silence yourself despite not actually knowing what it was all about? Does ignorance automatically make someone disrespectfull?:rolleyes:
Wasn't me, even I wouldn't use that term ;)
it was me that said she was far easten (china?)by looks, she may have been born in britian? she has been comming to the gym for ages, and speaks perfect english
Pedrosa
12-11-07, 08:43 AM
Ah my mistake. But then again Hovis, from where you are based now far eastern could have implied a Geordie lass!:p
when i first posted this i was unsure as to weather she was or was not disrespectful (hense the ?)
it is now my belife,, that she was disrispedtful, down to fact that although she did not talk, she remained walking on the tredmill & making a noise & not acknolaging the silance, i understand, that if she was a doctor/policewomen etc she may not have been able to stop, but in this case stopping the trdmill for 2 mins would not have any reprecusions.
& a Geordie lass is northern
May I first say that I think that Hovis was quite right to ask this woman to stop, no matter what his personal views are, he works for the gym whose policies are to respect the silence by drawing the attention of all staff and visitors. As the person in charge he is required to follow the policy and ask her to stop, the others in the gym are certain to expect this of him.
I've been brought up to believe that the Silence is more than a "no talk", it's a moment (where possible) to collectively stop what one is doing to and reflect on the sacrifices that people have made to ensure our way of life. I think the Silence is meant to be a moment of calm for those that wish to reflect, this woman is unnecessarily destoying the calm for the people around her, she is therefore disrespecting them at the least.
They pulled everyone off the track at 10:50 at Cadwell Yesterday to observe the silence, although they never announced over the tannoy when it started and when it finished, and with everybodys clock obviously being slightly out no one was to sure when to observe the silence....was a shame really.
Flamin_Squirrel
12-11-07, 03:13 PM
You missed my point... they didnt come here seeking "freedom" or anything like that they made a simple choice of where they belived was, at the time, best for education.
If this country was "free" and had rubish education we would have gone elsewhere.
if this country wasnt "free" and had rubish education we would have gone elsewhere.
The fcat is that this all happended way before i was born and a choice was made by my parents.
There are plenty of things i dont like regarding the UK thank you...one of them being small minded people who feel i, and that lady in the gym, should "comply" even if i have very good reasons for not choosing to do so.
I'm at a loss as to how you can claim that what you've gotten out of the UK is somehow less valuble because you could have gotten it elsewhere.
Just makes you sound like the kind of ungreatful immigrant that the BNP likes to portray.
If this country was "free" and had rubish education we would have gone elsewhere.
if this country wasnt "free" and had rubish education we would have gone elsewhere.
what about if the country wasn't 'free' yet had a great education system?
However, back to the point of the thread, IMO each to their own.
gettin2dizzy
12-11-07, 03:41 PM
Obviously it was a 'rubish' education system ;)
Obviously it was a 'rubish' education system ;)
must have been, going by the poor spelling, in the many posts on this thread.
northwind
12-11-07, 10:12 PM
must have been, going by the poor spelling, in the many posts on this thread.
Your grammar is atrocious :mrgreen:
because he has been in the army (&fought for it)does not give anyone the right to ignore this mark of respect
If it's forced on you, it's not a mark of respect. But my grandad would have told you that if he fought for anything, he fought for freedom for his country and his family, and that forcing people to observe a minute's silence they didn't believe in is the sort of thing that "the other feller" was fighting for, and that he fought against.
My uncle, on the other hand, was more offended by people who paid lip service to the minute's silence than by people who ignored it entirely. Standing there thinking about your shopping list in silence for a minute isn't respectful, it's blatant hypocrisy.
It all seems a bit of "I kept quite for a couple of minutes so I've done my bit" and then everyone carries on again without a second thought. I've seen them all do it at work. Mid joke, two minute silence, finish joke as though the two minutes never happened.
Couldn't agree more. You show respect by your actions and words the rest of the year, not by keeping quiet for 2 minutes then forgetting about it.
Northy, isn't the point of the 2 mins that it's a focus for everyone's attention at the same time?
northwind
12-11-07, 10:48 PM
That's supposed to be the point, aye... But like Bigape I reckon a lot of folk are just observing the forms, and missing the point, the silence shouldn't just be about not talking, it's supposed to be a moment of reflection and consideration too. I don;t really have a strong opinion on it either way, so I'm being led a wee bit by the old folks I suppose. But I do definately feel that forcing people into it devalues the whole thing- it's like the difference between a real standing ovation and a stage managed one, I'd sooner see 10 genuine demonstrations of respect than 1000 fake ones myself.
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