View Full Version : Tyre size -- How does it affect ride?
aalmode12
12-11-07, 09:12 PM
I have a 2003 Sv650S. Its my first bike, I bought it used, and am slowly getting better at riding. I need some advice on replacing my tires.
While getting a state inspection here in Maryland, they told me I needed new tires. My friend (who doesn't own a bike) recommends I get fatter rear tires because he think "they look better" and I have seen fat tires on some nice sports bikes. Doing some research, I read in an earlier post that the size Suzuki recommends (120/60 ZR17 MC front -- 160/60 ZR17 MC rear) are best...obviously because they designed the bike in the first place. That makes a lot of sense to me.
So my question is: what difference does a wider rear tire make?
and: any advice on what I should do - follow Suzuki specs on front and rear or something different?
Thank you everyone.
fizzwheel
12-11-07, 09:18 PM
Wider rear tyre slows the steering down apparently, I don't know as I've never tried it on my SV. Theres a school of though from peoples whose opinion I trust that say dont go wider than the manufacturer recommends on a standard SV wheel as the rims not design to take a wider tyre and you end up with a pinched tyre which isnt good.
If it were me and my bike then I'd stick with the standard sized tyres.
aalmode12
12-11-07, 09:23 PM
Interesting. Just for the sake of knowledge....why do a lot of "pimped out" bikes have wider rear tires (mostly seen on other sports bikes, not the SVs)?
northwind
12-11-07, 09:23 PM
Yep, if you do want to fit a wider rear tyre- and it does look ace- then it makes sense to fit a wider wheel to suit, even a 160/60 is pinched on a 4.5 rim, never mind a 180.
ThEGr33k
12-11-07, 09:24 PM
Indeed stay standard... mainly because you need a 180 section wheel and a modified/new swing arm to take thet!
Plus, not broken dont fix it...
Oh and on a side note. Get michelin Pilot road 2! They are great imo. :D
Blue_SV650S
12-11-07, 09:41 PM
I have a 180 tyre on my curvy's rim!! 8)
Yes it alters the handling, so if you are a 'scratching' hero then it might compromise that.
In summery, is it recommended ... no ... is it do-able ... YES :)
HTH
northwind
12-11-07, 10:19 PM
Indeed stay standard... mainly because you need a 180 section wheel and a modified/new swing arm to take thet!
Just the wheel, the SV swingarm's huge. I've definately seen race bikes with 190 in fact.
If you do it right, it's not a negative change in the handling, it's just a change. Frinstance, when I fit mine I guarantee the bike will still turn faster than a standard SV, due to the wheel choice and geometry. I'm 90% sure it'll turn faster than I ever want it to in fact, it certainly can just now :D
ThEGr33k
13-11-07, 01:09 AM
Just the wheel, the SV swingarm's huge. I've definately seen race bikes with 190 in fact.
If you do it right, it's not a negative change in the handling, it's just a change. Frinstance, when I fit mine I guarantee the bike will still turn faster than a standard SV, due to the wheel choice and geometry. I'm 90% sure it'll turn faster than I ever want it to in fact, it certainly can just now :D
Damn... Just going off of what i hear from others. :D
northwind
13-11-07, 01:22 AM
JHS sells a swingarm to take a GSXR rear wheel, so it was a fair assumption... But the Bandit 1200 wheel is an easy fit so that's a better option. (if all goes according to plan I'll be making a wee spacer kit for this in future btw, for the curvy SV at least)
aalmode12
13-11-07, 03:53 AM
Well....since wider tires are more expensive....and it costs loot to change the wheel and swing arm.... AND it turns just as well, but different....
Why do people do it? Just for looks? :confused:
(so far....I am planning on sticking to the standard size)
Well....since wider tires are more expensive....and it costs loot to change the wheel and swing arm.... AND it turns just as well, but different....
Why do people do it? Just for looks? :confused:
(so far....I am planning on sticking to the standard size)
Most bikers do most things to their bikes for looks and sound.. And cos they love them :smt056 ;)
Or just get an SV1000. It comes with a 180 rear as standard. Add a tail-tidy and a hugger and you end up looking like you're just sitting on a big fat tyre :)
ThEGr33k
13-11-07, 01:34 PM
Mark_H your avatar is... BRILLIANT! :smt077
northwind
13-11-07, 07:03 PM
Well....since wider tires are more expensive....and it costs loot to change the wheel and swing arm.... AND it turns just as well, but different....
You don't need to change the swingarm, just the wheel. But you're spot on, it's basically bling, just like so many other things. You might well prefer the different roll-in characteristics, but to be honest there's no way to know other than to try it.
180 take-offs are more plentiful than 160, if you fit your own tyres... That's one minor consideration, I reckon I'll save more in a year on tyres than it costs to set up the rear wheel. Unfortunately, SV rears don't fetch a very good price.
Looky here:cool:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i93/tracy_5/CB1/SVMODS1-1.jpg
It's a 1200 Bandit rear,180 section tyre with a spacer kit from 21Quest
Sadly the bike now belongs to Plowsie but he's lokking after it I think;)
Blue_SV650S
13-11-07, 08:48 PM
180 on standard SV rim
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/blue_sv650s/rear180.jpg
It's a 1200 Bandit rear,180 section tyre with a spacer kit from 21Quest
Sadly the bike now belongs to Plowsie but he's lokking after it I think;)
Were can you get a spacer kit?
beabert
03-09-11, 12:55 PM
Mark_H your avatar is... BRILLIANT! :smt077
LOL i agree.
http://www.gandalph.nl/gallery2/d/241786-1/knee+down+car.jpg
beabert
03-09-11, 01:00 PM
Now i want a thicker tyre :(
Preston
03-09-11, 02:19 PM
the 180's you guys run are they 180 / 55 ZR 17 M/C (73 W )?
also did you run a stock 120/60 front or 120/70 front?
only asking cos am now dew new boots so i wanted to try a this
http://www.michelin.co.uk/motorcycles/michelin-pilot-power-2ct in 120/60 F ++ 180 / 55 R
ThEGr33k
03-09-11, 06:52 PM
To run the bigger tyre you need a wider rim...
Bigger tyre and wheel = increased unsprung weight. Exactly what you don't want, especially if running the standard joke damper.
yorkie_chris
05-09-11, 02:15 PM
Thread from the mists of time 8)
TWF racing now sell a spacer kit to easily fit a GSXR 06> wheel to the back of either bike, proper size for the 180 tyre so it won't create any handling wierdness.
I would not bother with this unless I already had revalved GSXR forks, sorted rear end, and even then the biggest advantage, IMO, is that 180 scrub tyres are dead cheap!
Or if your just sad and want a few more pose points .
Saving up for the front end gixer mod.
beabert
05-09-11, 07:22 PM
Thread from the mists of time 8)
TWF racing now sell a spacer kit to easily fit a GSXR 06> wheel to the back of either bike, proper size for the 180 tyre so it won't create any handling wierdness.
I would not bother with this unless I already had revalved GSXR forks, sorted rear end, and even then the biggest advantage, IMO, is that 180 scrub tyres are dead cheap!
http://www.twfracing.com/PartsPages/gsxrwheelconv.html
this one?
yorkie_chris
05-09-11, 07:52 PM
Yeah, bit of a pain with the machining of carrier but it's probably the best way around it.
Must be someone in the UK who can do the spacers?
AkiraSV
06-09-11, 08:39 PM
When I got my bike it had a 180/55 rear and a 120/70 front.
Long story short, crashed it, then repaired it and stuck some new tyres on. After much research I went back to the standard sizes (160/60 rear and 120/60 front) and it's now much MUCH better in the way it handles. There's a reason that people in white coats recommend a certain combination of tyre size for your motorcycle, so trust them with their recommendation.
Also, I hear that having non-factory-standard tyre sizes can void your insurance in some cases.
Well Ill go slower round the corners.Even slower than now ....
Was that on the 4 1/2 rim?
It needs a min 5 1/2 to mount a 180 section .
AkiraSV
07-09-11, 12:06 PM
Well Ill go slower round the corners.Even slower than now ....
Was that on the 4 1/2 rim?
It needs a min 5 1/2 to mount a 180 section .
Sorry, just re-read my post and I made it look like my crash was related to the tyre sizes, which it wasn't, however having oversized tyres can lead to potentially dangerous handling problems.
But yes that was on the standard rim, the tyre was VERY pinched. I don't understand why people would want to squeeze on a 180 tyre just because 'it looks cool'; I think pinched tyres look a bit silly.
Fingers crossed I get a SRAD wheel before thoses pesky TWI poke through....
yorkie_chris
07-09-11, 02:38 PM
You mean SRAD?
They don't fit without machining wheel, maybe not even then.
Well as the dreaded TWI are all throug I put the 180 on the standard rim . Man that is a squeeze I think I heard it Cry :o
tim8061
13-10-11, 02:33 PM
If you do it right, it's not a negative change in the handling, it's just a change. Frinstance, when I fit mine I guarantee the bike will still turn faster than a standard SV, due to the wheel choice and geometry. I'm 90% sure it'll turn faster than I ever want it to in fact, it certainly can just now :D
So you're saying you changed the tyre, wheel and geometry?
And if so, how can you say which change caused what effect?
I dropped my forks an changed tyres from Sports to Powers, but I reckon dropping the forks was what speeded the turn-in not the different tyres.
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/297005_273365636028589_100000654639280_885072_3334 72973_n.jpg
So,I Know you shouldn't ,But on the standard rim It feels OK to me ,It's turning in like a 250 :)
Preston
20-10-11, 02:24 PM
well looking at the 180s they all say the mini rim is 5.1/4 - 5.1/2 sv650 sv650s 99-02 stock is 4.1/2 - 4.3/4
+ the if you have a hugger some spacing might be inorder. after weighing it up really not worth it.
Original hugger . No issue
Saved £60 quid on The pair deal so that's good news.
Preston
20-10-11, 03:08 PM
can you PM me some pic's of the rear wheel with the huger on? from the side back all diff angels plz.. thanx
saintnick
22-10-11, 12:07 AM
Through work I recently had a chat with Dunlop's UK technical supremo, he's the guy who supervises testing in the UK and is on hand at press launches. I also know his counterpart at Bridgestone. I've talked about the rim size / tyre size thing to both of them.
There are many reasons why you should stick to the optimum section per rim size: these include retaining correct profile, which is a key issue going round a corner ;) Mismatch them and you will compromise the tyres cornering ability, because you are either stretching the rubber of condensing it. Fuel consumption wont be as good. I can't emphasise enough how strongly they hold this view, on and off record, to the extent that they will not supply a tyre to a press bike if there is any question of it being mismatched to the rim in question.
5.0 inch rim - 170 section optimum
5.5 - 180 section optimum
6.0 - 190 section optimum
A fortune is spent on development, and company tyre testing is taken incredibly seriously, as one would hope. For that reason alone, you can only compromise performance by shoving an oversize tyre on.
One of the joys of a relatively light, smaller bike is the smaller rim and section. It's what makes bikes like the SV and the 400s such fun and along with the low weight gives them an edge in the twisties. Skinny sections rule.
Finally, I reckon that oversize fat rear sections aren't that hip anymore: people are rediscovering the joys of smaller bikes - cafe racers and flat trackers are all the rage at the moment and either would look obscene with an oversize rear in situ.
Yes, you could fit a bigger rim and fatter section, though I imagine that would take a fair bit of working around to get in. In practice, all it will do is allow the rear to tansmit traction that bit better getting on the gas in a straight line. But you're not talking 180 brake which needs smearing into the tarmac, and you will sacrifice ease of turn in.
Preston
22-10-11, 01:41 AM
i understand everything your saying as the wifes uncle is also very well none being Clif holland from wylie and holland race team so am lucky to be able to call or get advise from alot of top racing and development teams and they have all said the same thing ( BAD IDEA )... also having tryed this on the track now it really dos not make sence to put an over size boots on a rim.
be it or not the sv650 was/is built to a low budget so it will never be a really grate bike, but then all things can be improved. and maybe comes down to your own riding style. nothing is set in stone also i didnt see much diff running the 180 on stock rims i did still enjoy the day. having tryed both 120/160 & 120/180 on the same day on the same bike. in 2 diff types of tyre i would say just stick to the 120/160 unless you REALLY and i mean REALLY! want that 180 on the back then just change the rear rim to take a 180 boot..
Yes. I know I'm being very bad,and to be fair I do have a 5.5 inch rim that I'm looking at mounting .but as the tread had gone on my old hoop I thought I'd give it a go ;)
I'll sit in the naughty corner for the rest of the morning .
Oh and it does decrease its mpg range is now 140,was 150.but might be down to the fact I'm gasing harder through the twisties?
yorkie_chris
23-10-11, 09:33 AM
Yes, you could fit a bigger rim and fatter section, though I imagine that would take a fair bit of working around to get in. In practice, all it will do is allow the rear to tansmit traction that bit better getting on the gas in a straight line. But you're not talking 180 brake which needs smearing into the tarmac, and you will sacrifice ease of turn in.
Not a massive difference, conjecture like this help much.
TWF racing sell kit to fit 06> GSXR rim to either curvy or pointy. This lets you try tyre without a large weight penalty. Then you have correct 5.5 for 180 tyre.
Getting hold of the right wheel at sensible price and then getting it machined is harder than youd think :)
saintnick
23-10-11, 05:50 PM
Not a massive difference, conjecture like this help much.
Nothing to do with conjecture.
Generally speaking, mismatching section and rim size will have an adverse effect on handling, because profile will become distorted. This is not just my view btw, as previously stated.
On a more personal level, years ago I picked up a bike with an oversize rear on it, and surprise surprise, once this was remedied the bike felt twice as agile. anyone can fit what they like, but if you want to know what the manufacturers stance is, I think its been fairly described above.
stormingjoe
23-10-11, 09:07 PM
You could fit a 160/70/17 on the rear which would give more rubber on the ground without the pinch problems on a narrow wheel with 170/180 tyre widths.
yorkie_chris
24-10-11, 09:10 AM
Nothing to do with conjecture.
Generally speaking, mismatching section and rim size will have an adverse effect on handling, because profile will become distorted. This is not just my view btw, as previously stated.
Fair enough if you're talking specifically about wrong rim size. Sounded like you were on about fitting any 180, regardless of matching wheel.
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