Lazer Surgery

[metalmonkey]

Hey guys just wondered if anyone here has it done, how cost and the best place to go too!

The only thing that concers me about it, if what if it goes wrong and the long term effects of it. Will my eye sight become worse in the long run, is there anything else to know about?

It would be great to have done, for work and on the bike! I about -2.5 and -2.75 I think. Or would I just be better of glasses? I can see 20/20 with my glasses on.

[Alpinestarhero]

Thought of using contact lenses? Seems an awefull expense to have laser (s, not z) eye surgery, when its easier and less...invasive to wear glasses. Contact lenses arnt for everyone, but my brother wears them every day with no problems

Matt

[Pedro68]

I worked with a guy who had this done at a local hospital ... they left the laser on his eyes for FAR TOO LONG, and he is now slowly going blind :(

However, just to give a fair view of things ... I also know several people who have had this done and have said that it's the best thing they ever did!

It might cost you a bit initially, but the saving on glasses over the years will counter that quite quickly.

[G]

My uncle had it done in cyprus for not alot and they did both eyes at the same time, swears by it and he now has perfect eyes sight, he was nearly blind due to diabetes.

[keithd]

i am -3.75 and -2.75, i'd love to have laser surgery but all i need is ONE horror story and thats enough for me. a colleague's friend had it done, she now has a lazy eye. the story above of leaving the laser on too long and now slowly going blind.

well, all the while i think lenses are a bit of a pain, gimme that any day of the week and twice on sundays over anything going wrong. yeah yeah safety record is excellent look at how many people it works for etc etc, but i aint risking my sight for anybody. one of my worst nightmares....

[Pedrosa]

I have not looked in to this much at all and in truth dont know the numbers relating to my eye sight. All I know is that over the past few years my close sight is abysmal. I wear specs when on the computer or for reading. My distance sight is though excellent. Can lazer surgery correct this?

[metalmonkey]

If I lost my eye site, I would my job everything, thats what really puts me off....SO hence is it really worth it? Yeah I had a contact trial, but with being hosptial ect didn't follow through...I really probally should.

I would use them on the bike manily, I would need 12+ ones from work thats the only problem! Hmm well it is something to think about.

If your long sighted I wouldn't bother, becasue you don't need them from riding, or when out and about, I have to wear for work, bike ect...

[fizzwheel]

my friend had it done last year some place in bristol little surgery attatched to an opticians.

She was very very nervous, I dropped her off at the clinic, and wandered around Bristol spent a fortune in Virgin megastore and she phoned me about 1 1/2 hrs later to say she was all done.

She had blurry vision afterwards and when I dropped her home she went straight to bed and slept, she said she had blurry vision for a few hours afterwards and had to put drops in her eyes for a 3 months I think it was afterwards, but hasnt had one side effect she reckons it was one of the best things she's ever had done.

Would I do it, no I wouldnt I'm well squeamish about my eyes and I dont think they do my eyes anyway as I have some trouble with my retina in my right eye.

[G]

I tried contact purely for the purpose of being on the bike, the problem is your eyes dry out because of the constant flow of air, they often cant get you exact prescription like they can with glasses so vision isnt perfect, you move you eye to look somewhere and often the lense does not follow on the retina until a second or two later.

I kept my glasses, good whilst on holiday though around the pool etc.

[hovis]

im tempted............ but scared somthing may go wrong.

[hovis]

im tempted............ but scared somthing may go wrong.

few more comments here
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=93036&highlight=surgery

[Sosha]

I tried contact purely for the purpose of being on the bike, the problem is your eyes dry out because of the constant flow of air, they often cant get you exact prescription like they can with glasses so vision isnt perfect, you move you eye to look somewhere and often the lense does not follow on the retina until a second or two later.



Hard or soft lenses? Mine work well for me on a Bike - the only problem I get can be the Airconditioning at work drying them out a bit.

Surgery? I've thought about it but the thought of something going wrong (however remote) puts me off

[Well Oiled]

Had both eyes done 5 years ago at Optimax. Best grand I ever spent - vision is still better than 20/20. No faffing around with specs / contact lenses.

No need to be nervous - it's not painful and the techniques they have these days are even better than they used on mine - safe and extremely accurate.

Cheers Keith

[G]

Can you explain the procedure, what you had to go through, the sensation you felt whilst having it done etc, immediate impact, impact a week later etc.

cheers

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

Had mine done at optical express, cost £2800 all in and both eyes were about -3.5 at the time. Very quick improvement and I could drive the next day without glasses. I had glasses and contacts since about 8 (now 31). I had the surgery almost a year ago and it's taken a few months to settle down but I reckon it was well worth the money; I would have spent that much cash on glasses and contact lenses over the next 10-15 years so it's not like I'm saving money, just no more hassle of glasses steaming up / contacts making my eyes tired. My night vision is better as well.

[phil24_7]

Mate of mine went to Thailand to get his done, he'd heard of a reputable place over there and spent £600 (with flights) and got both his eye's done. He says it was well worth it as his eyesight has improved dramatically.

[Well Oiled]

Can you explain the procedure, what you had to go through, the sensation you felt whilst having it done etc, immediate impact, impact a week later etc.

cheers

Yep - first thing is a consulatation where they generally check your eyes and see if you're suited. If so they measure your eyes with a laser topography machine and show you a plot (bit like an OS map with contour lines) of your eyes. Mine were oval as I had some astigmatism (ie my eyes were a bit like a rugby ball instead of a football).

Then they make an appointment for treatment. When you get there you lie on a an operating type table (but it's not a full blown theatre) and they put some aneasthetic drops in. then they put this clamp thing on to hold your eyelids open while they irrigate your eye with some fluid or other.

Next (this sounds really gory but there's nowt to it) they put this thing on the eye that slices a thin flap open to expose the layer inderneath (which is what they laser) and tell you to stare at this red dot,The laser fires up and you can hear loads of pulses as it reprofiles the shape of the cornea. The worst part of this is the smell of burning - you can't actually feel anything. It's done in about 30 seconds flat.

They put the flap back in place, put a patch over you eye and you're done. You need to keep the eye spotlessly clean for a couple of days at least and then you're done.

The other technique is where they put some fluid in there to kind of etch away a top layer to reprofile. This gives some irritation when healing (with the Lasik method the flap of skin, once back in place, gives no discomfort as the eyelid passes over it). I actually had one eye done each way for some reason. I had them done one at a time but if you're in a rush you can have them both done at once.

Hope that helps

Cheers Keith

[ooger]

Hopefully this will help everyone, I think I'm the most recent case.

I had this done a little over 6 months ago at Ultralase in Guildford, Surrey.

I've worn glasses since I was about 3, and when I reached 16 or so moved to soft contact lenses for social events (like, 12 hours a week or so) , wearing glasses all the time when I was at university, and on the computer (wearing lenses makes your eyes dry up quickly if you don't blink, and using CRT/TFTs did just that). Since then I've had various jobs in IT, so lenses have always been a no-no as a permanent solution.

I promised myself I wasn't getting a bike until I'd got the eyes sorted, it was part of the whole gameplan (the thought of removing my specs before putting the helmet on really put me off, convenience-wise (I know, shallow), that and:

1) not being able to see a thing at the swimming pool
2) Having to demist after coming in from outside 8 months of the year
3) regretting not being able to see much when I jumped out of a plane at 13000 feet (wore lenses, eyes watered, lenses jumped out)
4) working upside down on anything, and having to push them back up my nose
5) having to visit the opticians regularly to get them straightened, fixed
6) theme parks. Wheres the fun when its all a blur anyway?
7) I've always fancied doing a bungee jump, but I wanted to actually see the bottom first

...the list goes on.

(I'd like to point out that none of the reasoning behind the decision was because "I don't like the way I look in glasses" - there were many more practical reasons, which in my opinion gave me a better quality of life and I still maintain that)

The procedure was not pleasant I'll be honest of that: but the result is fantastic. I'd say the discomfort (that might be a little mild, maybe thats just my opinion) lasted about 6 hours after the 10 minute surgery. I'd say my sight recovered fully (both eyes treated same day) about 36-48 hours afterwards. It was done on a Saturday, and I was back at work on Tuesday PM.

I had very poor eyesight (-6.5, -6.00....also known as 'I wouldn't want me on the road, never mind you') which meant I could see the big "A" at the top of the chart without my specs, the rest was a black triangle.

Now I can read the bottom line unaided, which "technically speaking" is better than what is called 20/20 vision (i.e human standard)

Yes, eyes are only muscle and tissue, and they'll get worse as I get older (I'm in the 26-30 bracket ;)) , but:

a) they'd have done that anyway, like yours will
b) it couldn't have been much worse than it was unaided

Yes, there is a risk and yes the form you sign on the day disclaims all liability from the surgeon/company if it all goes wrong and you lose all sight in any eye (they do say they'll stop if that happens with the first one...I kid you not) , but thats a risk with all 'cosmetic' surgery. The bold text says "I understand this procedure is not necessary but elect to have it performed at my own risk".

You are the only one that can make that choice, and its something that took me the best part of 24 months to decide. Do think about the risks, but also do think about the benefits too. The "success" rate is massive, I'll not quote numbers. Bear in mind "success" is something all clinics define differently.

I'd recommend Ultralase as a company, their surgeons and consultants and after-care are fantastic. Their marketing department are a little on the back foot though, they still keep sending me incentives to get it done.....:confused:

If you want any more info about anything specific, let me know and I'll be more than pleased to tell you if I can.

Thankfully as its all under local anaesthetic I can recount it all, in as much or as little gory detail as you want.

[ooger]

...they put this thing on the eye that slices a thin flap open to expose the layer inderneath (which is what they laser) and tell you to stare at this red dot,

Keith, this sounds like you had the mechanical device (microkeratome) to cut the flap?

Generally this isn't so common now, and (although the rest is 100% spot on) I had the flap cut with a different laser, the procedure is called Intra-Lasik

The marketed advantage is that the risk of contamination/infection is less as there is no physical contact with anything metal on the eye.

(it also makes me want to hurl less, which is a bonus)

[G]

Thanks Guys, both of those first hand experiences are very informing.

I have been considering it for a while, I have been wearing glasses for less than a year, and I do enjoy wearing them, they help me look a little older and brainier.

Ooger that list you have described is exactly how i feel, I hate that i have to do all those, I will add that i also hate not being able to oogle lovely women when on holiday and in the pool at the gym.

My problem is my eye sight went from good to very bad very quickly and its still getting worse at an strange rate, my optician has advised me not to go to any consultants yet as they push me to get it done, when its probably not the right thing to do right now when they are getting worse so quick.

[gettin2dizzy]

Is lazer surgery when you go to Poland for cheap Laser surgery ? ;)

[Biker Biker]

Stick with glasses... well sexy

[Well Oiled]

Thanks Guys, both of those first hand experiences are very informing.

I have been considering it for a while, I have been wearing glasses for less than a year, and I do enjoy wearing them, they help me look a little older and brainier.

Ooger that list you have described is exactly how i feel, I hate that i have to do all those, I will add that i also hate not being able to oogle lovely women when on holiday and in the pool at the gym.

My problem is my eye sight went from good to very bad very quickly and its still getting worse at an strange rate, my optician has advised me not to go to any consultants yet as they push me to get it done, when its probably not the right thing to do right now when they are getting worse so quick.

If that's the case forget it - no point in laser surgery if your eyesight is not stable - you can buy new glasses / contacts every year, but you can't be repeatedly treated by laser (they can do it more than once, but there is a limit).

[ooger]

If that's the case forget it - no point in laser surgery if your eyesight is not stable - you can buy new glasses / contacts every year, but you can't be repeatedly treated by laser (they can do it more than once, but there is a limit).

Agreed - Ultralase needed to see 2 prescriptions from the past 2 years minimum to make sure my (or anyones) eyesight is stable. If its not stable very few (good) surgeons will put their name to it, as once its done, the eye will keep changing, as it currently is, and will outgrow the treatment.

Stick with glasses, but get regular eye checks until this is the case. It WILL settle:

Quick howto:

If your employer (assuming you have one) makes you use any VDU screen for any length of time, they are responsible for paying your eyesight tests. One per year, any registered optician is fine, any reasonable cost.

You pay for the other one, go wherever is cheapest. :D

This means you can get a prescription done every 6 months, at the rate of 2 for 1, where the most expensive one is free (don't see that often do ya?) ;)

(if you know anything about prescriptions, ask the optician to write the prescriptions in the same notation each time, that way YOU can understand the differences) - reason is, they can be written in the +ve or the -ve and mean the same.....v confusing.

PS - Ultralase gave me a "lifetime" guarantee, meaning that as long as the eye is healthy (i.e theres enough tissue to burn more off!) they'll offer to keep treating it if it, but personally, I'm not sure I want that when I'm older.

Good luck, and be patient.

Kev

[JediGoat]

If your long sighted I wouldn't bother, becasue you don't need them from riding, or when out and about...

Oooooo...I have to disagree with that statement.

I'm long-sighted in my right eye (have been since birth) which is why I have to wear glasses. I mildly short-sighted in my left eye (like many 30-somethings who need specs for reading).

Although I can see and read without my glasses on, that is because my weaker eye has always been lazy - I tend to turn my head slightly to the right and mainly use my left eye (if you are ever talking to me you may notice this, but only if you are looking out for it as it's quite subtle).

I have to wear my bins all the time. So reading, using a PC, watching TV, driving, riding (in fact, you really would not want to be the same road as me if I wasn't wearing them).

If your two eyes have the same poor vision, that's one thing, but for me, without correction, my distance perception is totally screwed - i.e. I cannot get both eyes to focus on the same spot, one focusses a little in front of the target, one a little past the target (which is why it's impossible for me to do those magic eye picture thingies).

Back on the main topic, I was chatting to a customer who'd had the laser surgery, and she told me that your eyesight must be 'stable', i.e. not having changed for a few years. My prescription hasn't changed in years, but I'm still too much of a chicken to go for surgery.

By the way, are you prevented from driving/riding for a certain period of time after the surgery?

Jo

[ooger]

...I was chatting to a customer who'd had the laser surgery, and she told me that your eyesight must be 'stable', i.e. not having changed for a few years.

true


My prescription hasn't changed in years, but I'm still too much of a chicken to go for surgery.


I was there for a while too.


By the way, are you prevented from driving/riding for a certain period of time after the surgery?
Jo

Well, I could see jack sh*t when I came out and quite frankly thought it hadnt worked! Driving was off the cards (even being outside was actually) for about 24 hours. You get very very light sensitive. I wore sunglasses indoors until the next day or so.

When you can read the letters on the board to the "driving standard" and youre comfortable, theres nothing to stop you driving. They tell you to start when you feel ready.

I had:

day 1) Treatment
day 2) checkup
day 7) checkup
day 21) checkup
+ 3 month checkup
+ 6 month checkup

All was fine after 7 days really, with a little bit of dryness that soon cured itself (you have to do quite a bit of personal hygiene things with your eyes that you normally wouldnt do :cool:)

[metalmonkey]

Agreed - Ultralase needed to see 2 prescriptions from the past 2 years minimum to make sure my (or anyones) eyesight is stable. If its not stable very few (good) surgeons will put their name to it, as once its done, the eye will keep changing, as it currently is, and will outgrow the treatment.

Stick with glasses, but get regular eye checks until this is the case. It WILL settle:

Quick howto:

If your employer (assuming you have one) makes you use any VDU screen for any length of time, they are responsible for paying your eyesight tests. One per year, any registered optician is fine, any reasonable cost.

You pay for the other one, go wherever is cheapest. :D

This means you can get a prescription done every 6 months, at the rate of 2 for 1, where the most expensive one is free (don't see that often do ya?) ;)

(if you know anything about prescriptions, ask the optician to write the prescriptions in the same notation each time, that way YOU can understand the differences) - reason is, they can be written in the +ve or the -ve and mean the same.....v confusing.

PS - Ultralase gave me a "lifetime" guarantee, meaning that as long as the eye is healthy (i.e theres enough tissue to burn more off!) they'll offer to keep treating it if it, but personally, I'm not sure I want that when I'm older.

Good luck, and be patient.

Kev

How much do Ultra Laze charge? Just wondered how much it was....umm, not sure about my prespction on how much its changed, i don't think its got worse by a few points but less than 1.0 in going down.....I have had to waer for quite a long time now...

MY dad is 51, yet his eye sight is better than mine, I'm the only one out of the family that needs to waer glasses all the time.

Glasses are pain they really are, when i go travelling have to make sure that have at least 2 pairs...it would be nice to have them....

[-Ralph-]

I tried contact purely for the purpose of being on the bike, the problem is your eyes dry out because of the constant flow of air

If you've ever ridden with contacts in a open face you know the solution to this. Open your visor and look straight into the air blast for five minutes. It takes a minute or two, but soon your eyes will water so much that your contacts will feel great for hours.

[Jools'SV Now]

Had it done a few years back, ultralase - hammersmith.

scary, yes
worth it, yes
regrets, no.

did a bike trackday 2 weeks after - no probs

eyesight was perfect straight away.
eyedrops for weeks after and not getting your eyes wet for 2 weeks are the biggest pain.

eyesight still 20/20

best benefit - you can see the birds on the beach in your shades;)

[keithd]

best benefit - you can see the birds on the beach in your shades;)

i seem to be able to do that perfectly well with my contacts in and wearing shades.....

saved myself a couple of grand there!! :cool:

[redbouy]

I had this done some 10 years ago in the US itcost 5 grand then. That was walking in the door and a life time free checks. Was about -5 both eyes since 14. I spent close to 800 dollors a year on glasses, contacts sunglasses. Now i only spend 300 a year on sunglasses. {they just dont float}
It took 15 mins. Read the clock on the wall please. yea right !! 15 mins later, made in Germany.
They left me about -.3 so as I get older i will grow into normal sight.
Now diving swimming.walking from AC to summer temps no misty glasses.. Long flights no problems. It has given me back a whole lot of life. Yes I could have done it all before but now its not a issue to think about. No extra glasses, contacts, solutions, flying these days ??
My sister has contacts, one night she comes home a little "happy" puts the contacts in a glass beside her. Wakes up in the morning to an empty glass and no contacts. opps must have drunk them. :-)

[ooger]

Everywhere that does eye surgery has "from" prices, which noone ever pays unless the surgery isnt worth doing as the eyesight isnt far off perfect anyway.

Bottom line is that the more complex/bad your vision is, the more it costs, though they'll never tell you this. What they will do is assess your eyes/prescription and give you a base £cost plus some pricing "levels" which add extra niceness/safety reassurances.

This is annoying because if truth be known, its actually a computer/machine doing the work, not the surgeon - he's just making sure its not playing solitaire/otherwise while its on the job. (He also comes in handy for holding your head steady without crushing you with the might of a machine.)

I suppose for them the extra ££'s come in because of the extra time/risk? I dunno.

Costwise, you'll get different prices from different providers based on different lasers, different surgeons, different overheads, different promotions and whether its a sunny day or not.

Best thing to do is just go along to every single one in your area (I did, it was great, lots of free tea and biscuits every Saturday) and get a written personalised quote for your CURRENT prescription. You might need 2 appointments at each one for this.

Once you've done that you'll be marketed to hell and back, and every time, the deal gets better and better......

Problem is, you need a stable prescription to go ahead at any point.

That aside though, you can still make the "consultation" appointment (they're always free) where they check the condition/quality of your eye to make sure surgery is feasible. You can tell each of them the same story though, that you want a £quote for your current prescription on the understanding it is subject to change, but you want to budget for it (feel free to make up another reason;))

That's what I'd do, if I were to go again.

A word of warning if you do get it done one day though:
Allow plenty of time to use the toilet through the night ......you'll spend an age looking for your glasses.

[drefraser]

Hey guys just wondered if anyone here has it done, how cost and the best place to go too!

The only thing that concers me about it, if what if it goes wrong and the long term effects of it. Will my eye sight become worse in the long run, is there anything else to know about?

It would be great to have done, for work and on the bike! I about -2.5 and -2.75 I think. Or would I just be better of glasses? I can see 20/20 with my glasses on.


I'm a consultant ophthalmologist and I've had laser refractive surgery done myself so I might be able to add a bit here.
All of this type of refractive surgery is done with an eximer laser but there are three different ways of getting down to the stroma (mid-layer) of the cornea.
The most common is LASIK which involves cutting a flap, folding the surface layer out of the way, then lasering. This is ideal for people with over -4.0 of myopia as the healing causes less scarring so less haze. The down side is that the flap never really heals so trauma to the eye can cause the flap to be moved or even lost.
If you have the prescription bluethunder has a better technique is LASEK which uses alcohol to denature the surface layer which is then rolled back and the laser applied. The advantage is there is no flap so there are no long term risks. It might be more painful in the early post op period if some of the epithelial cells have been lost but so what? Another advantage of this method is that it shows that your surgeon is not just the pile them high sell them cheap type of operator who has not learned different techniques.
The third technique is PRK where the surface cells are just scraped away. It's sore afterwards and there is more risk of scarring/haze. Not generally done now.
I'd make sure your surgeon is a fellow of the royal college of ophthalmologists and I'd read the info on their website.
http://www.rcophth.ac.uk/about/public/laser-refractive-surgery
There is about an 85% of getting the prescription you want if you're a low to moderate myope and less than 1% chance of serious complication. Less than 1% is still not 0% though so I would always recommend getting one eye done at a time. Then if you're very unlucky you don't go ahead with the second eye.
As said if your prescription is changing or your problem is only with near vision (presbyopia) this isn't for you.
I work NHS only and don't do refractive surgery so this certainly isn't advertising by as I said I have had my eyes treated (six weeks apart) and I'm very happy with the results.
Cheers,
Ewan

[drefraser]

Thanks Guys, both of those first hand experiences are very informing.

I have been considering it for a while, I have been wearing glasses for less than a year, and I do enjoy wearing them, they help me look a little older and brainier.

Ooger that list you have described is exactly how i feel, I hate that i have to do all those, I will add that i also hate not being able to oogle lovely women when on holiday and in the pool at the gym.

My problem is my eye sight went from good to very bad very quickly and its still getting worse at an strange rate, my optician has advised me not to go to any consultants yet as they push me to get it done, when its probably not the right thing to do right now when they are getting worse so quick.

Your eyes will continue to change whether you have laser or not so if you're getting more short sighted that will continue. You'd only get rid of your glasses briefly I'm afraid.

[drefraser]

My uncle had it done in cyprus for not alot and they did both eyes at the same time, swears by it and he now has perfect eyes sight, he was nearly blind due to diabetes.

I'm afraid that can't be quite right. Diabetes can blind you and it is treatable with laser but it's a thermal laser (usually an argon) applied to the retina which would make no difference to someones glasses prescription. If on the other hand your uncle had refractive laser then it wasn't diabetes that had caused his trouble but simply myopia unrelated to his diabetes.

[drefraser]

If that's the case forget it - no point in laser surgery if your eyesight is not stable - you can buy new glasses / contacts every year, but you can't be repeatedly treated by laser (they can do it more than once, but there is a limit).

Yup.

[drefraser]

This is annoying because if truth be known, its actually a computer/machine doing the work, not the surgeon - he's just making sure its not playing solitaire/otherwise while its on the job. (He also comes in handy for holding your head steady without crushing you with the might of a machine.)


It's true that it's not the hardest type of surgery but it is harder than you describe and someone inexperienced or incompetent can **** it up. From starting medical school to qualifying as a consultant eye surgeon took me 15 years; it's like a letter from a lawyer costing £40 - you're paying a bit for the work it took them to get there.
If you go directly to a named consultant most of the money goes to them and you'll pay more. If you go to Optimax, Ultralase, etc. you'll pay less and the ophthalmologist will get a fraction of the fee you pay.
Cheers,
Ewan

[drefraser]

Stick with glasses... well sexy

842
Thanks very much.