Brunstrom: "I would do it again"

[the_lone_wolf]

Yes, that's right, another Wankstrom thread...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7103193.stm

So he still doesn't think he's done anything wrong, despite apologising "unreservedly" to the Gibney family and accepting that the IPCC report which criticised his actions, including describing the pictures of Mark Gibney as "outstandingly good," was a "fair, accurate and proportionate reflection of the circumstances"

After all that, he still thinks it was the journalists' fault:rolleyes:

[SoulKiss]

The sooner someone goes and visits him and delivers a fatal beating the better.

Can I suggest that a bike chain is used, well as that would put all the bikers in the UK in the frame, they would never catch whoever it was, as a) no-one would squeal, and b) every biker in the country would like to see him gone.

On a more realistic level however, complaints need to be made as basically all he said is "All I did wrong was get caught".

[Ceri JC]

The man is a **nt.

[Luckypants]

Not reported there, but reported on local TV News that he had also ignored 'a protocol' to check his dealings with the media with the Police Authority. The IPCC criticised for not following this protocol - they have been careful not to call it 'operational procedure' because that would be misconduct.

He has also just been criticised by a High Court judge for recommending that a PC be re-instated after he was sacked for gross misconduct.

The guy's judgement is bizarre at best. :joker:

[northwind]

If we have a whipround, we might be able to afford a hitman?

[Demonz]

Wasnt he just saying he would show similar pictures of speeding deaths to the media so this will reduce speeding deaths through greater publicity of the negatives - but this time with the right safeguards/approvals. If he can get greater publicity from doing this then doesnt this benefit the general public? I dont see the problem with it?

Yes I do think he's a knob for upsetting the family. Ironically though its had more publicity because of this very mistake - and directly at the very people he was aiming at.

[gettin2dizzy]

He blames the media for reporting it.
Maybe I'm an idiot but I would expect journalists to report on the 'shock factor' tactics at a press conference. ********.

[the_lone_wolf]

Wasnt he just saying he would show similar pictures of speeding deaths to the media so this will reduce speeding deaths through greater publicity of the negatives - but this time with the right safeguards/approvals. If he can get greater publicity from doing this then doesnt this benefit the general public? I dont see the problem with it?
without making the pictures or general description of the pictures public, how is he going to gain extra publicity for his cause? the shock factor he was going for would only affect the people in that room, and besides, is it right to show horrific road injuries to make a case against breaking the speed limit? you don't have to be breaking it in order to cause far more horrific results.

whether he was naive, stupid or is just plain lying that he thought a room full of journalists wouldn't report and republish images they were shown, and tbh his motives are pretty obvious, the fact remains that he used the images without permission, would you see a problem if it were, god forbid, your wife, child or parent who was in those pictures?

at the end of the day he did something stupid, crossing the line of common decency in order to further his own agenda, and in the process has caused a huge amount of suffering to the Gibney family. he hasn't apologised for using the images, he hasn't admitted it was a mistake, despite the IPCC ruling that it wasn't a good idea at all, all he has done is try to sidestep the finger of guilt and blame someone else for his own stupidity (or simple spitefulness)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Wasnt he just saying he would show similar pictures of speeding deaths to the media so this will reduce speeding deaths through greater publicity of the negatives - but this time with the right safeguards/approvals. If he can get greater publicity from doing this then doesnt this benefit the general public? I dont see the problem with it?

Yes I do think he's a knob for upsetting the family. Ironically though its had more publicity because of this very mistake - and directly at the very people he was aiming at.

You've made 2 false assumptions there though.

First, that road deaths are some sort of epidemic. Second, that speed is the cause of those deaths.

If Brunstrom spent this much time going after unlicenced, untaxed and uninsured drivers, he'd make much more of an impact on road safety.

[Demonz]

You've made 2 false assumptions there though.

First, that road deaths are some sort of epidemic. Second, that speed is the cause of those deaths.

If Brunstrom spent this much time going after unlicenced, untaxed and uninsured drivers, he'd make much more of an impact on road safety.

Yes - you are right. Maybe, I should have used Road Safety not speeding.

[Alpinestarhero]

If we have a whipround, we might be able to afford a hitman?

Bloody hell man, just pass me that gun overthere, I'll do it me bloody self

Matt

[the_lone_wolf]

Yes - you are right. Maybe, I should have used Road Safety not speeding.
i understand what you are saying, i think people are shielded from the gruesome nature of what it looks like when things go wrong on the roads, so shocking them may well have an effect on how they perceive road safety

but that wasn't my point, my point was that it's ethically questionable to use pictures of someone's deceased relative without their permission, regardless of how much good intent you have, and how much brunstrom had is fairly obvious when you see him trying to blame someone else for what was essentially his mistake and absolve himself from responsibility:---)

[Ceri JC]

but that wasn't my point, my point was that it's ethically questionable to use pictures of someone's deceased relative without their permission, regardless of how much good intent you have, and how much brunstrom had is fairly obvious when you see him trying to blame someone else for what was essentially his mistake and absolve himself from responsibility:---)

This is primarily what I hate him for. He is so fixated on speeding (and we all know how dangerous target fixation can be, ho ho ho!) that he doesn't see the bigger picture. We can assume from the t-shirt the unfortunate biker was wearing that he shared a similar POV to most bikers: that speed itself isn't the main killer and that the police should spend their time focusing on something else. This only serves to compound the poor taste of using images of a dead man to promote a message which he, in all probability, was against when he was alive.

If you read about the effect the whole thing (re-entering the media) had on the poor man's family, you see exactly why using these sort of photos without the family's permission is such a big no-no. Whether or not his intentions were good is irrelevant and even if you could guarantee it would save lives (which I don't think you could- there are plenty of this sort of pictures on the internet already which I don't think have made any difference), it is the family's decision whether or not they should be used.

[Demonz]

i understand what you are saying, i think people are shielded from the gruesome nature of what it looks like when things go wrong on the roads, so shocking them may well have an effect on how they perceive road safety

but that wasn't my point, my point was that it's ethically questionable to use pictures of someone's deceased relative without their permission, regardless of how much good intent you have, and how much brunstrom had is fairly obvious when you see him trying to blame someone else for what was essentially his mistake and absolve himself from responsibility:---)

I think he is a knob for upsetting the family - as i mentioned before. Everyone agrees on this including himself.

But he has pulled off a major coup with the PR on this whole incident - was the point I was making.

[the_lone_wolf]

But he has pulled off a major coup with the PR on this whole incident - was the point I was making.
but did he though? he's got massive coverage from it no question, but he's also got MPs calling for him to resign, surely nothing says "i'm a nutcase and you shouldn't listen to me" like having your opinion force you to quit your post as head of a police force?

edit::

I think he is a knob for upsetting the family - as i mentioned before. Everyone agrees on this including himself.
That's the point though, he doesn't accept that it was wrong to use the images, he said:

"I would do the same again - the question is the safeguards."

"I was stupid and I made a stupid mistake I don't intend to repeat."

"I clearly placed too much trust in the behaviour and integrity of journalists. I allowed others to exploit a position that I did not anticipate."

"The error of judgment I was referring to was misplaced trust."

He tries to shift it all onto the journalists who were effectively only doing their job...

[Tiger 55]

If we have a whipround, we might be able to afford a hitman?
We've got 7,466 members - surely one of us must be a hitman?

[gettin2dizzy]

We've got 7,466 members - surely one of us must be a hitman?
and 750 homos!

[metalmonkey]

At work they were like the guy has done nothing, I was so angry when they said that I had bite my tougue otherwise, I would have ripped into that person and tore them apart. But I don't think anyone else would have backed up so I would have ended up in trouable, its not the first my big mouth has got me in trouble.....

I also think speed does have a factor in accidents buts not the always the casue the majority of time its something else. I drive and ride fast, but too an advanced system that I learnt. The accidents I have seen have been through people not looking, (in the case of bikes, the car driver not seeing the bike and crash) cars racing at nearly 3x the speed limit and drink. He this is MY personel Opion right or wrong.

The guy is total ass hole, and undoes the hard work of other people....Yeah i was very angry but it was better for me to nothing this time. Just sit there and looked ****ed off.

[Luckypants]

S'ok, he don't like Met coppers either, even though he wants the top job one day.

[metalmonkey]

The thought of him in the top job scares me a lot, could you imagine that.....the amount of bikers in london, I just don't want to there!

What we need is an angry mob, round up ******** in wales, brown and his followers and red Ken and burn them live on top gear as Clarkson said, its the best use of our tax money I can think of.

[Spanner Man]

Afternoon all.

Richard Brunstrom is something a T055er whose views are sometimes a bit extreme, of that there is no doubt. It was probably a bit insensitive to show the pictures at a private meeting with the press, but they haven't been released to the press in general, so what's the problem?

However, the rider in question was riding a Hayabusa & travelling at over 100mph in a 60 zone. Which makes him criminally responsible for the accident. He also had no licence or insurance, which makes him an irresponsible To55pot in my book.
There are cases daily where criminal behavior & associated photographs are shown in the press. No consultation with the family has been sought, & nor should there be any need to.

My sympathies are with the family who were stuck in their vehicle for 90 minutes, with a headless corpse embedded in the front of the car.

Cheers.

[the_lone_wolf]

However, the rider in question was riding a Hayabusa & travelling at over 100mph in a 60 zone. Which makes him criminally responsible for the accident. He also had no licence or insurance, which makes him an irresponsible To55pot in my book.
i was aware of the circumstances, but the family aren't responsible for that are they? his actions are indefensible, but if anything the extreme nature of the crime means that it bears even less relevance to the "speed kills" message brunstrom was trying to push, i can't think of anyone who thinks riding into an oncoming car at 100mph+ isn't going to result in horrific injuries

i also can't think of an example where the press have used photos of a dismembered head, identifying the deceased, consultation or no, ever, i'd imagine if they did they would be on the end of a level 5 bollocking

just because the pictures weren't released doesn't mean they can't hurt the relatives, obviously if you'd been told your son or brother had died in a road accident you'd be upset, but to be hold he was decapitated and would have remained concious for some time afterwards is going to f*** you up is it not?

[Pedrosa]

The decision to show the pictures was in hindsight misguided. It was though done in private and leaking of the photos in to the public domain was never envisaged.

I do sympathise with the family but only if they equally accept that their relative was a law abusing idiot who's death was caused by his stupidity,attitude and inept riding ability.

No license,insurance etc and blasting around on a Hayabuse? FFS!

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Afternoon all.

Richard Brunstrom is something a T055er whose views are sometimes a bit extreme, of that there is no doubt. It was probably a bit insensitive to show the pictures at a private meeting with the press, but they haven't been released to the press in general, so what's the problem?

However, the rider in question was riding a Hayabusa & travelling at over 100mph in a 60 zone. Which makes him criminally responsible for the accident. He also had no licence or insurance, which makes him an irresponsible To55pot in my book.
There are cases daily where criminal behavior & associated photographs are shown in the press. No consultation with the family has been sought, & nor should there be any need to.

My sympathies are with the family who were stuck in their vehicle for 90 minutes, with a headless corpse embedded in the front of the car.

Cheers.

I don't see the slightest relivance of the mans criminality. His family are already victims of his stupidity, they shouldn't be made to suffer further because he died while breaking the law.

Least still be made to suffer by the police. They're there to protect the public and enforce the law, not pass judgement and traumatise people.

[busasean]

I think it goes without saying the guy is a tosser. the whole thing about this "biker" annoys me. he had no license or insurance so at the end of the day he shouldnt have been on the road at all (sympathy? - not a bit!) I do have sympathy for the family involved, and brunstroms obsession with speed needs to be reigned in. am I right, that Brunstrom had a daughter killed in a car accident?

[the_lone_wolf]

The decision to show the pictures was in hindsight misguided. It was though done in private and leaking of the photos in to the public domain was never envisaged.
a room full of journalists, come on, you have to be naive to the point of incompetence to think that anything you say/show to a room full of journalists is going to be kept between you and them

I don't see the slightest relivance of the mans criminality. His family are already victims of his stupidity, they shouldn't be made to suffer further because he died while breaking the law.
what he said

[Luckypants]

No you are thinking of his then deputy Bill Brereton. See this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2824787.stm). Mr Brereton is another area where the Chief Constable covered himself in glory... (sarcasm). I won't post my opinion in case big Brunstrom is watching.

[Spanner Man]

I don't see the slightest relivance of the mans criminality. His family are already victims of his stupidity, they shouldn't be made to suffer further because he died while breaking the law.

Least still be made to suffer by the police. They're there to protect the public and enforce the law, not pass judgement and traumatise people.

Steady on! Aren't all relatives of criminals victims of their stupidity? Why the hell should we make an exception in this case!

Many murder victims families also have to read & hear about the suffering & injuries they endured. That is worse in my opinion.

The families suggestion that they knew nothing of his injuries is somewhat un believable, or didn't any of them go to identify him? Some of them must have known...At the risk of sounding incredibly cynical, I expect the possibility of a law suit against the police has been considered.

I agree with Busasean that Brunstrom needs to be reigned in, but I can't see why the fact it's a Police force that has made it public makes it any worse than if it was reported by the press in general.

Cheers.

[gettin2dizzy]

What happened to the good old burning at the stake.

[the_lone_wolf]

The families suggestion that they knew nothing of his injuries is somewhat un believable, or didn't any of them go to identify him? Some of them must have known...At the risk of sounding incredibly cynical, I expect the possibility of a law suit against the police has been considered.
The father was the only one who knew details, if you read some of the previous news articles you'll see he had understandably tried to keep the details from the rest of the family.

the IPCC report concluded that he had broken no laws or code of conduct, that's not the issue here, it's not so much what he did as his attitude towards it that riles me and so many others, to say that pictures he was going to use in his presentation "aren't grusome enough" and the ones of gibney were "outstandingly good" smacks of someone who is only going for the shock tactics, the headline grabber who is willing to put his own agenda over the well being of innocent people who happened to be related to someone who did something stupid.

then to basically say it wasn't his fault and the only mistake he made was trusting journalists not to report what they'd been shown shows a complete detatchment from ethics and reality. his objective was obvious from the beginning, whether he set out deliberately to cause an uproar and go after the family is arguable, but it's certain that he was so desperate to get his name in the papers again that any question of the morality of his actions never went through his mind.

[chris8886]

The man is a **nt.

you've put it in a knutshell there my friend!!

[-Ralph-]

you've put it in a knutshell there my friend!!

+1, whatever your views on this particular incident, the man is a public liability and should be removed from office. Do a search on some of his other gems of PR excellence!

[Xan173]

I also think he's not fit for duty, due too his poor judgement.

However, he has the backing of a large number of constituents who see him as a crusader against the scourge of bikers that inflict themselves upon north Wales every weekend.

He may be a c***, but he's a c*** with a voice. There's also lot's of c***'s among us who scare the living daylights our of middle englands cagers every weekend in search of our giggles. This is the issue.

We can't deny there's a genuine concern to be answered for among our numbers. We also can't deny he's a massive c***.

[Luckypants]

However, he has the backing of a large number of constituents who see him as a crusader against the scourge of bikers that inflict themselves upon north Wales every weekend..

On what evidence do you base that? I have not met any that I recall. Most folks round here think he's **** as well because there are no ****ing police out patrolling! His advice if your barn gets raided and your quad nicked? Get a bigger lock and try 'to be around more' - on a farm FFS!

He is a complete :toss:

[Luckypants]

FWIW There is a documentary about Brunstrum on BBC 1 Wales tonight at 22:35. It was postponed at ahort notice two weeks ago and with no explanation, perhaps related to the Mr. Gibney photos fiasco?

BBC1 Wales can be got via satellite for those not in Wales.

EDIT: The program is called 'The Chief'

[the_lone_wolf]

'The Chief'
as in "Heil to..."