View Full Version : anyone got faith in the NHS?
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 01:12 PM
OK so i saw paramedics that didn't spot my collarbone busted in 3 places, i got to my local hospital (walsall manor) and had my arm put in a sling for 6 weeks, i was then told all had healed and i could star physio, while doing the physio i notices my collarbone was still moving in 2 separate ways? so i go back for the doctors to say "yep its still broke come back in 4 weeks" so i go back today have another 2 xrays thats 10 altogether and one doctor says its still broken and one says its fixing? "come back in 6 weeks":smt103 anyhow ive got signed on back to work on the 3rd of December cus i'm peeved with sitting around home, who do you trust, it still feels broken to me:smt092
gettin2dizzy
21-11-07, 01:14 PM
They've always been excellent for me :)
Worth shelling out for private investigation?
rictus01
21-11-07, 01:27 PM
well facing 5 more operations starting next month, I really need this, thanks.
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 01:28 PM
i'll just wait 6 weeks and see what happens then.
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 01:28 PM
well facing 5 more operations starting next month, I really need this, thanks.
i was hoping for an op but no go :(
gettin2dizzy
21-11-07, 01:34 PM
Can you not get a short circuit style robot to carry things for you instead? Why use your limbs when you can get something else to do it!
drefraser
21-11-07, 01:37 PM
I'm biased because I'm a consultant in the NHS but I think we have the best medical training for our doctors and some of the worst managers/politicians in the world. I've worked in a few different countries in forming that opinion.
I could start grumbling about the NHS system but there's a character limit of 10,000 per post.
Overall I'd rather go under the knife here rather than elsewhere but I'd rather wield my knife somewhere else. If that makes sense.
drefraser
21-11-07, 01:40 PM
i was hoping for an op but no go :(
Someone else who believes, as I do, that a chance to cut is a chance to cure. Mwwaaaaahahahaaa.
well facing 5 more operations starting next month, I really need this, thanks.
:grouphug:
old man highsided at Lydden once when racing.
Broke his rib, went to hospital (after fixing bike and racing again that day :lol: )
Sent him home.
Few days later, his arms in agony, so he goes to the doctor. Gets rushed to hospital, he'd got gangreen in his elbow. Another 2 days and the arm would have had to come off!!!!!!!!
How the doctors missed a gaping gash in his elbow bemuses me....
Edit, oh me me..
Went into hospital at age 10, sevear knee problems... 2 weeks in hospital, on traction etc..
What excusses did they put it down to (and after surgery etc, its still not sorted to this day),
Tonselittous (?sp)
Weak back muscles
Weak thigh muscles (possible, but doubtfull)
Chest infection (didn't have one)
Trapped never in my back.
This was in 2 weeks.... And i still suffer to this day.
No trust whatsoever, through direct experience to myself and indirect experience through family members......Not one good experience between us, typed about some of the issues previously and wont go into it again.
A major problem in my eyes is the apparent free run juniors get without much apparent supervision.
There is undeniably some very very talented individuals within the NHS, sadly they seem few and far between.
Its a difficult call - yes there are lots of problems and much room for improvement, you can't really get away with that.
But before we condemn across the board lets not forget all the good work they do, routine and pioneering and that its accessible to all, unlike many other countries that will rely on your up to date policies or a big bill afterwards. :D
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 02:04 PM
when i see the doctors in our fracture unit they just dont seem intrested? i think its a "let wait and see if you body mends itself first" which i can understand, its cheaper.
when i see the doctors in our fracture unit they just dont seem intrested? i think its a "let wait and see if you body mends itself first" which i can understand, its cheaper.
You need to write a letter of complaint to the Chief Executive of the hospital trust. That will persuade them to take you seriously.
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 02:16 PM
i'll wait the next 6 weeks Ed and see what happens but if nothing does then i will start to get pi$$ed. i wanted to get back to work before christmas so the postal service get good again and all you cards and prezzies get to where they are going:)
i'll wait the next 6 weeks Ed and see what happens but if nothing does then i will start to get pi$$ed. i wanted to get back to work before christmas so the postal service get good again and all you cards and prezzies get to where they are going:)
Not to mention a few missing computer discs;)
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 02:19 PM
was it royal mail that lost those? my dad said it was TNT?
gettin2dizzy
21-11-07, 02:23 PM
Our medical service in this country is of such a high standard in this country that it seems some of you expect perfection!
Our government may choose to hire more managers than doctors and nurses, have an obscene pay scheme ranging from managers and GPs both laughing to the bank whilst nurses earn bugger all; but if I fell ill I'd rather be in this country than anywhere else. There's a ridiculous amount of bureaucracy & paperwork, a lack of motivation across all levels and a meddling public but the standard of service is second to none. The best aspect often ignored as to why time is such a constraint on our health service: that it's available to all. A small price to pay IMO.
drefraser
21-11-07, 02:23 PM
A couple of points I'd like to make in the case for the defence
we can't fix everything. that's not negligence that's just the way it is.
we don't always give long consultations and explanations in the way people would often like. that's mainly because the system is constructed in a way that allows 20 people to be treated as well as can be rather than 10 people to be treated well and counselled well.Another issue is that doctors can be arrogant and poor communicators but most of the problems I've seen described above are related to the time pressure in the system not allowing good explanations to happen.
chris8886
21-11-07, 02:30 PM
sorry but my short and simple answer is NO
diamond
21-11-07, 04:08 PM
when i see the doctors in our fracture unit they just dont seem intrested? i think its a "let wait and see if you body mends itself first" which i can understand, its cheaper.
With collar bones thats pretty much all they ever do, Put it in a sling and wait. It's very rare they do anything more than that.
Oh and yes i have every faith in the NHS, they are my employer, both my parents employer my sister inlaw's employer, and i've used them a few times without complaint.
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 04:12 PM
most of the problems I've seen described above are related to the time pressure in the system not allowing good explanations to happen.
i think your right they are massively busy and like e.d. says there isn't really much you can do with a collarbone:???: must try not to fall off again[-X
Flamin_Squirrel
21-11-07, 04:27 PM
With collar bones thats pretty much all they ever do, Put it in a sling and wait. It's very rare they do anything more than that.
Oh and yes i have every faith in the NHS, they are my employer, both my parents employer my sister inlaw's employer, and i've used them a few times without complaint.
So what you're saying is you're completely un-impartial :p
timwilky
21-11-07, 04:29 PM
Well my wife saw her doctor with a lump, 4 days later she saw a surgeon and 5 days later was on the table. 9 days from GP to op I think is damm good going.
Yes she works in the NHS and written across the front of her notes in big letters is STAFF. This may have something to do with it. But, I like to think they can respond like that for all.
They were quick to spot her Primary Biliary Cirrhosis, but took 8 years to also spot a second liver disease auto immune hepatitis. Biggest criticism I have is a lack of specialism in local general hospital. She needs to travel from Preston to Leeds (150 miles round trip) to see a hepatologist as the local trust do not have a Hepatology dept.
drefraser
21-11-07, 04:31 PM
sorry but my short and simple answer is NO
So does that mean that when you had a mishap on the track you went to
BUPA
the vet
your mate who had that operation game when he was a kid?I'm just curious about my competition :shaking2:
A couple of points I'd like to make in the case for the defence
we can't fix everything. that's not negligence that's just the way it is.
we don't always give long consultations and explanations in the way people would often like. that's mainly because the system is constructed in a way that allows 20 people to be treated as well as can be rather than 10 people to be treated well and counselled well.Another issue is that doctors can be arrogant and poor communicators but most of the problems I've seen described above are related to the time pressure in the system not allowing good explanations to happen.
I can appreciate that, but in my 3 main personal cases non of that applies.
But yes I can imagine there is alot of timewasters particularly on a saturday night wafting through hospital because they have nothing better to do than sit at home watching jeremy kyle, whilst not paying national insurance and contributing to the NHS, and i can fully understand this making doctors arrogant and not wanting to communicate with them.
And to answer the above question....I'm now BUPA through work, sadly it doesnt extend to family members until I reach a certain age.
shonadoll
21-11-07, 04:35 PM
I've got zero faith in the NHS. Hurt my back, was told ligament problem, given physio for a year as they could not countenance the cost of an MRI scan. Was in increasing pain when I went private - I had a severe disc prolapse, which was pressing on my sciatic nerve for a year. I was operated on within 5 days privately, and now have permanent nerve damage from it being compressed for so long.
My 15 yo son was referred to a dermatologist for severe acne- the GP wrote saying he would be scarred for life if not seen immediately- a years wait. Went private, got seen within a week.
The problem is, the NHS don't take the long term view-it's all about the cheapest way of getting you out the door, asap. Lost all faith in them and am private all the way now.
drefraser
21-11-07, 04:43 PM
I can appreciate that, but in my 3 main personal cases non of that applies.
But yes I can imagine there is alot of timewasters particularly on a saturday night wafting through hospital because they have nothing better to do than sit at home watching jeremy kyle, whilst not paying national insurance and contributing to the NHS, and i can fully understand this making doctors arrogant and not wanting to communicate with them.
And to answer the above question....I'm now BUPA through work, sadly it doesnt extend to family members until I reach a certain age.
Fair enough. I do think there is a place for private health care and I often advise my family to go down that road. I just wish politicians and, ultimately, we the voting public would be a bit more honest about what can and what can't be done with public funds.
Flamin_Squirrel
21-11-07, 04:47 PM
Fair enough. I do think there is a place for private health care and I often advise my family to go down that road. I just wish politicians and, ultimately, we the voting public would be a bit more honest about what can and what can't be done with public funds.
Speaking of funds, the NHS budget has trebbled in the last 10 years.
How can any trusts complain about being broke, where has all the money gone?!
BristolMatt
21-11-07, 04:50 PM
Just saw this on the Beeb http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7104161.stm :(
How can any trusts complain about being broke, where has all the money gone?!
Paying rubbish management and pen pusher to try and run wards like a business rather than a service I believe is the general agreed consensus.
I would love to opt out and only pay a minimal amount to cover emergencies, I would be £350+ better off a month if i could. I'm unlikely to use the NHS and what good is the state pension anyway, it probably wont exist by the time I'm eligable to collect it.
Just saw this on the Beeb http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7104161.stm :(
This is exactly the point, lots of inexperienced staff. I took my girlfriend to A&E last month, she had clearly broke her foot, when we removed her shoe it was very clear to see. The foot then swelled and it no longer looked broken.
The young doctor who looked younger than me (and I look young) said he thinks its just bruised, he had a laid back really couldnt give a **** attitude. He sent her for an x-ray and looked at it briefly and confirmed his suspicions that it was just bruised at which point he showed us out the door.
Along comes a senior doctor who points out her foot does actually have a nasty break :rolleyes: at which point the junior doctor dissapeared and we were then treated by the senior doctor.
The junior doctor had a badge on that said 'Foundation Year 1' maybe Dr E Fraser can elighten us to what level of training this junior actually had to be treating us and sending us on our way with a completely wrong diagnosis?
drefraser
21-11-07, 05:15 PM
The junior doctor had a badge on that said 'Foundation Year 1' maybe Dr E Fraser can elighten us to what level of training this junior actually had to be treating us and sending us on our way with a completely wrong diagnosis?
Fresh and shiny, straight out of medical school, no McDonalds badges.
Like you, I wouldn't want to be treated by one but if no-one is they never get more experienced and become senior doctors. If all the health care in the NHS was delivered by consultants then it would cost twice as much and when we all died out you wouldn't have anyone to step in. The idea is that juniors should be supervised and, to be fair, it does sound like that is what happened.
At least the FP1 as they as snazzily known won't have been working a 32 hour shift like I had in 1994 when I was in their shoes. Some progress.
chris8886
21-11-07, 05:17 PM
So does that mean that when you had a mishap on the track you went to
BUPA
the vet
your mate who had that operation game when he was a kid?I'm just curious about my competition :shaking2:
well for starters i live just round the corner from one of the worst hospitals in the counrty (watford general), which not too long ago managed to leave a toddler in A&E that blatantly needed urgent care, for a VERY long time which resulted in him dieing. secondly my dad needed a resurfacing of his hip. it was needed as it was getting to the point of which where he couldn't walk very well and without some pain and couldn't get in a car very easily. despite this he would have had to wait something along the lines of 12 months on the NHS so had to pay and go BUPA. and my final problem was when my nan needing hearing aids for obvious reasons! lol. which she couldn't afford to pay for and the waiting list on NHS was 18 months. and this waiting time pretty much resulted in the death of my grandfather when he fell down the stairs during the night and she could never hear his cries for help!!
other than this i do understand that the people who work for the NHS are quite outstanding people and nurses in particular are disgracefully underpaid and over worked and that they do the best they can with what they've got. and i very much respect them for that!!
Fresh and shiny, straight out of medical school, no McDonalds badges.
Like you, I wouldn't want to be treated by one but if no-one is they never get more experienced and become senior doctors. If all the health care in the NHS was delivered by consultants then it would cost twice as much and when we all died out you wouldn't have anyone to step in. The idea is that juniors should be supervised and, to be fair, it does sound like that is what happened.
At least the FP1 as they as snazzily known won't have been working a 32 hour shift like I had in 1994 when I was in their shoes. Some progress.
I did some looking about to try an answer my own question
In the most junior post (foundation year 1) a doctor would earn a basic salary of £20,741. Bloody hell no wonder he had a couldnt give a **** attitude
A competent individual could reach consultant status within ten years. The starting salary for consultants is currently from approximately £70,000 up to around £93,000. Bloody hell no wonder your sticking up for the NHS lol
drefraser
21-11-07, 05:26 PM
I did some looking about to try an answer my own question
In the most junior post (foundation year 1) a doctor would earn a basic salary of £20,741. Bloody hell no wonder he had a couldnt give a **** attitude
A competent individual could reach consultant status within ten years. The starting salary for consultants is currently from approximately £70,000 up to around £93,000. Bloody hell no wonder your sticking up for the NHS lol
Erm, shuffling of feet, lots of stethoscope expenses to consider, erm :smt100
Those salaries are modest in today's world. In fact I'm surprised that consultants salaries are so low.
Those salaries are modest in today's world. In fact I'm surprised that consultants salaries are so low.
I too am shocked at the junior salary, the consultants isnt bad for the experience and time it takes to get to that stage.
My aunt is a GP in scotland and 'doesnt do bad' £1m+ house........She is supposed to be earning £150kish according to my gran and she does next to bugger all compared to being in a busy hospital.
Never done me no harm. Ok, you may have to wait every now and again, but generally i think they are fine. For all other issues, i Have BUPA
I think the NHS could do with some improvement, but for what it is I think it is a good service.
The bureaucracy is frustrating, but for the most part, the staff work their hardest with the resources they have.
If you can afford private healthcare, fair enough, but for those that cannot, rest assured there are still many disillusioned, stressed, overworked, but nevertheless, truly caring individuals within the NHS.
Shellywoozle
21-11-07, 07:03 PM
I have NO faith.
You know my story, broken arm and I under the care of a foot surgeon. His registrars left me in a sling for 8 weeks and when the foot surgeon saw me all he could say was oooh you better have physio cause you have left it in the sling too long. Oh and you're arm isn't healing. At no time did anyone physically touch my arm/shoulder.
I ended up going to my GP and they referred me to another hospital.
In the meantime the foot doctor decided he didn't know what to do and referred me to arm surgeon who booked me in for an op without seeing me. Only to cancel it the day before and said come back in 3 weeks.
Oh and you can go back to work, it's not mending on X-ray but it is mending in theory so off ya go back to work .... my job is very active and I need my arm.
I am still off sick 3 months later and getting rather depressed ..... NHS sucks!
northwind
21-11-07, 07:27 PM
I do. I've had some ****-ups but some brilliant results, it all balances out. Well, I think so anyway. The care I've had for my diabetes, the world beating standard and advancement of the surgery on my leg, and the excellent physio and backup I've had since has all been simply brilliant, and the fix they did on my leg is still considered cutting edge 2 years later, and pretty rare in the rest of the world. If they'd done the traditional hip replacement, I'd not be able to do half of what I can now, I'd have loss of mobility and probably a fair amount of pain, and I'd have more surgery to look forwards when it wore out (every 7-10 years). As it is, I'm a wee bit gimpy but I can walk, jump, ride a bike, even run a bit. That's beyond valuing...
But, they did make a complete **** up of my treatment for coeliac disease, which is probably why I'm osteoperotic at 27, which is probably why I broke my hip in the first place... So, I have no faith at all in that particular department, but the NHS in general have been brilliant for me.
on yer bike
21-11-07, 07:35 PM
2 months ago I was dischared after my latest bike stunt, this time I've had no problems with the bone side, found everything that was broken and did a good job at fixing me up. Physio was great etc...
Internal injuries though, after them being unable to determine what was causing my problems, they claimed it was stress, and discharged me at that, (only thing they found was a bruised liver and a bit of internal bleeding). Now I'm still having eating and breathing problems, and my doctor is experimenting with medication rather than refering me to a specialist... I wouldn't mind if it was something small like hartburn, but this is eating and breathing, stuff that you don't wanna screw about with... the orthopoedics have said to my doctor that he should refer me to an internal specialist in the hospital, but he's too arogant to do anything. So yes I am loosing my faith.
kwak zzr
21-11-07, 10:53 PM
I have NO faith.
You know my story, broken arm and I under the care of a foot surgeon. His registrars left me in a sling for 8 weeks and when the foot surgeon saw me all he could say was oooh you better have physio cause you have left it in the sling too long. Oh and you're arm isn't healing. At no time did anyone physically touch my arm/shoulder.
I ended up going to my GP and they referred me to another hospital.
In the meantime the foot doctor decided he didn't know what to do and referred me to arm surgeon who booked me in for an op without seeing me. Only to cancel it the day before and said come back in 3 weeks.
Oh and you can go back to work, it's not mending on X-ray but it is mending in theory so off ya go back to work .... my job is very active and I need my arm.
I am still off sick 3 months later and getting rather depressed ..... NHS sucks!
its my idea to go back to work i'm really really bored:( i'll just sort mail with one hand:)
I set up a private medical scheme for my team. However I have cancelled it as Standard Life found any excuse not to pay and left me with a £600 bill.
So we're back to the NHS.
Anne has had a few scares and goes to the boob clinic at the Princess Royal Hospital, Telford, under the care of Mr Christopher Hinton. He is simply fantastic. He does surgery in the morning, clinic in the afternoon. If any woman - or man, I occasionally see men there - is worried he makes sure that they are seen that week, even if the clinic goes on till 9pm. It's a terrific service and one that we in Shropshire are most fortunate to have.
I set up a private medical scheme for my team. However I have cancelled it as Standard Life found any excuse not to pay and left me with a £600 bill.
Hmmm - I think we are with Standard Life :-k must check it in the morning.
I've only ever had one really bad experience in the UK - 5 years ago though with our local hospital - hopefully it has changed. Overall I thought the facilities and services were sub-standard compared to Australia and Denmark though - the only other systems I have used.
northwind
22-11-07, 08:33 PM
I'm unlikely to use the NHS
That's what I said too!
Speaking of funds, the NHS budget has trebbled in the last 10 years.
How can any trusts complain about being broke, where has all the money gone?!
Modern medicine is expensive. Take me frinstance, my hip op costs apparently 10 times as much as a simple hip replacement! (taking into account the huge level of training needed to do it) But it works far better. The physio costs massively more too, since after a hip replacement they'd have got me walking again, and there'd be no point putting in the hundreds of hours it took to get me actually fixed- I'd just never have been able to reach this point.
They keep people alive for years on constant medication who would simply have died a decade ago. Untreatable conditions have become treatable or even curable. Newer and better hardware comes along that needs to be bought. It all costs. And if they don't offer the latest million pound service, it's all over the press. Of course, I'm sure they p*** a lot against the wall too but it's not all red tape and nonmedical costs.
Another issue is that doctors can be arrogant and poor communicators but most of the problems I've seen described above are related to the time pressure in the system not allowing good explanations to happen.
In my experience, the worse the communication, the better the doctor :D I suppose if you can't talk to other human beings, you must have to be better at your job to compensate!
tomjones2
22-11-07, 08:46 PM
Mainly from other people experinces the standard of care seems to vary wildly. Doctors/Nurses have a very difficult job to do and when they mess up it is very easy to point the finger, lets face very few of us get through a day without making some sort of mistake.
However I have also seen a friend HR going v.high while lying in bed and nurses doing nothing, at the end of the day they should of reasured him. Although they might have seen it before he (or me) hadn't. I also know of someone who was droped and brain damaged on the operating table. Of my brief experince of hosplitals they arnt always the cleanest nicest places in the world and I really object to paying for parking when you are visiting, sound riddiculous but its something you could do without.
Then agian I have recived good care from hospitals, my main gripe is my local GP's who seem to think you are fine unless you are lying on the floor dying.
MiniMatt
23-11-07, 08:39 AM
I have EVERY faith in the NHS. A search on my recent posts will reveal infuriation with the red tape and paperwork but when the brown stuff hits the fan the front line staff have literally saved my life on several occasions now.
My only complaint with doctors, and it's specific to doctors, is the communication. It's probably down to the pressure to make an instant diagnosis, but in relatively uncharted waters like neurology it seems every doctor comes up with a different diagnosis but then presents that like it's 100% definite and sure fire. Sometimes just saying "we don't know, but we have a fair idea how to fix it" is fine, rather than being told with complete authority two completely different things. I work in IT, I can therefore spot professional bullpoo a mile off (the IT industry probably invented it), offer your best guess for sure, just don't present it like it's a 100% fact :D
The other gripe won't really affect us until we're way passed motorbike riding age, but it's the way they treated my grandad on his hospital death bed. He was admitted in November, all the staff were proudly wearing their poppies and failed to see the irony of how they just wrote off the elderly dying man who actually earned his poppy by fighting in the very wars the poppy remembers (ok, so not the fields of Flanders, but WW2).
gettin2dizzy
23-11-07, 08:56 AM
Alastair Campbell was on Steve Wrights show the other day. Steve asked him why his figures for opinions on the NHS said positive public perception was rising, but polls said otherwise. Alastair's response was priceless. "if you stop people in the street and do a poll about their opinion on the NHS and it's negative; then I think their opinion is worthless'
Ceri JC
23-11-07, 09:39 AM
Only real gripe I've had with them is that they failed to spot a head injury that was fairly severe and the usual bueracratic red tape. Oh and how dirty a lot of the wards are. I also don't like the attitude nurses give you if you have an accident on a friday/saturday night that is completely unrelated to alcohol, yet they just assume you're some stupid drunk. And the centralisation of all the hospitals/GP's clinics and then the audacity to charge for parking when the only way to get there is by car. Okay, so a few gripes, but that's balanced out by the by and large good quality of care and the fact that most of the staff do seem to give a damn, which counts for a lot.
Biker Biggles
23-11-07, 09:59 AM
Having listened to this mornings news about the former defence chiefs slating of the government over its attitude to the military,it struck me that the same applies to the NHS,and probably all the public services.
What we have is a real increase in spending(a considerable one in the NHS)over a sustained period,but a collapse in workforce morale.Oddly there has been a general increase in remuneration to go alongside this,but still the morale has plumeted.The problem both the military and the NHS face is that staff morale is absolutely crucial to the organisations survival,and the employers seem unable to deal with this simple truth.
i havent got a bad word to say about them just the people who are incharge taking the p!ss out of there employees, ive never seen a dirty hospital, i think we just take too much for granted these days
JessicaRabbit
23-11-07, 10:55 AM
I must admit, I'm employed by the NHS as a theatres practitoner in my local Day Surgery Unit. But... I personally have had good and bad experiences. It's not perfection but it's certainly better than most other countries government funded healthcare.
However, I do take advantage of the corporate healthcare provided to Grinch by IBM. Coz although I generally have no complaints about the EVENTUAL treatment I receive from the NHS, the bureaucracy of the 'waiting... and waiting... and waiting... list' is more than enough to drive you to drink. :drink:
GastonJ
23-11-07, 11:01 AM
Doctors and nurses are also human and as such prone to making mistakes. How often have you taken your bike in for a service only to find that the mechanic has made a mistake, or when you've bought something and a mistake has been made? The NHS runs 365 days a year, never closes and employs humans who also get tired.
Pedro68
23-11-07, 11:03 AM
I have worked for the NHS on developing "Business Intelligence" reporting that informs the management about "waiting lists" ... and although I can't divulge details, it surprised me to see what was actually considered to be "waiting list" and what wasn't :-o
Management Information?!
There was so much "massaging" of the figures that I should have been called a "Data Masseuse"!! ;-)
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.