Congestion Charge London

[NAPA121]

Has anyone been monitoring the congestion charge propsals in London?

Who knows about this sort of stuff apart from MCN?

Just wondered as I have a letter from the Mayors office in 2005 stating:

"I would like to confirm that both motorcycles and scooters are exempt from the congestion charge because they do not cause congestion. Mr Livingstone also wishes to make it crystal clear that he has absolutely no intention whatsoever of making scooters and motorcycles pay the congestion charge"

I thought whoever is fighting the congestion charge proposal (is there still one?) might find it usefull/interesting?

Regards
Neil

[Fizzy Fish]

Who knows about this sort of stuff apart from MCN?


me. i'm the mole on the inside ;)

not sure what proposals you're referring to though...

[NAPA121]

i thought I heard that Ken was expanding the C Charge area and adjusting the exempt vehicals list which currently includes motorbikes but may not after revision.

Might be rubbish then...Hope so as I think Motorbikes should be exempt as we take all the risks of riding in town and dont cause any congestion. If anything, it should be encouraged with tax relief etc IMHO.

Regards

[Fizzy Fish]

The zone has already been extended to the West, and no further changes to the area covered are planned.

There has however just been a consultation on whether the amount of Congestion Charge paid should be linked to carbon dioxide emissions. The info from this is still being compiled/considered, but this relates to cars, and not to motorbikes.

Proposals include giving exemption to cars with very low emissions, and removing the residents' discount from those who have high polluting cars - which might be what you're referring to.

More info here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/roadsandpublicspaces/5238.aspx#ercc (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/roadsandpublicspaces/5238.aspx#ercc)

As you point out, there's no reason for the Congestion Charge to include bikes, as they don't add to congestion and have relatively low emissions, and those are the two things which the charge is trying to deal with.

[Spiderman]

Ah our mole on the inside must have had the day off when this was discussed.

Apparently, other town centres who wish to trial the CC zone are considering charging all bikes and scooters too and if Ken sees that it leads to further reductions in congestion then he will think of adoppting it for london too.

Lots of 'ifs' and 'buts' there i know and who even knows if he'll be in that position by the time that info comes out.

[Fizzy Fish]

Good post Fizzy :)

:takeabow:

[Fizzy Fish]

Ah our mole on the inside must have had the day off when this was discussed.

Apparently, other town centres who wish to trial the CC zone are considering charging all bikes and scooters too and if Ken sees that it leads to further reductions in congestion then he will think of adoppting it for london too.

Lots of 'ifs' and 'buts' there i know and who even knows if he'll be in that position by the time that info comes out.

me? days off? everyone knows that would never happen, what with the stingy public sector holiday entitlements and all that... :roll:

it's possible that charging schemes may be introduced in some boroughs and that these may include bikes, though remember apart from anything else we have a single number plate and are therefore a bigger pain in the bum to try and keep tabs on from a payment/enforcement perspective.

For that reason, and the fact that we don't cause congestion or significant carbon emissions, we should be left alone from the TfL Congestion Charge.

IMO more of a concern to bikers in London are:

a) paying to park, esp in Westminster!

b) the idea of road user charging on a broader, national scale, which is likely to hit congested London the hardest - a longer term one this though

[ThEGr33k]

Ah our mole on the inside must have had the day off when this was discussed.

Apparently, other town centres who wish to trial the CC zone are considering charging all bikes and scooters too and if Ken sees that it leads to further reductions in congestion then he will think of adoppting it for london too.

Lots of 'ifs' and 'buts' there i know and who even knows if he'll be in that position by the time that info comes out.


Right so all the people who dont bother riding in on bikes because they have to pay too are going to get to work how? Man the government and councils are THICK!

I have one other question... where does all this revenue go? Some big council mans golden pockets! MAN i hate these money grabbing people! :smt076

It makes me :smt078that we always seem to be paying extra for nothing.

[Fizzy Fish]

Right so all the people who dont bother riding in on bikes because they have to pay too are going to get to work how? Man the government and councils are THICK!

I have one other question... where does all this revenue go? Some big council mans golden pockets! MAN i hate these money grabbing people! :smt076

It makes me :smt078that we always seem to be paying extra for nothing.

Sorry, didn't I just say that there are no plans for bikes to pay congestion charges?? :confused:

Oh and the revenue raised from them goes to fund public transport improvements, to help accomodate those who switch due to the charges. Sadly it doesn't go into my pockets, or those of any of the big council men that I know... ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Oh and the revenue raised from them goes to fund public transport improvements,

Why should drivers pay for buses?

[ThEGr33k]

Sorry, didn't I just say that there are no plans for bikes to pay congestion charges?? :confused:

Oh and the revenue raised from them goes to fund public transport improvements, to help accomodate those who switch due to the charges. Sadly it doesn't go into my pockets, or those of any of the big council men that I know... ;)

Ive read that they might be in other cities which have recently been granted the ability to introduce their own congestion charges. :rolleyes:

[Fizzy Fish]

Ive read that they might be in other cities which have recently been granted the ability to introduce their own congestion charges. :rolleyes:

what, you mean there are cities other than London?? :shock:

;)

btw BMF and MAG do a lot of work to lobby for bikers' rights - if you feel strongly about this type of thing (and in fact even if you don't) you might like to join to add your support/funds to their campaigns

[ThEGr33k]

what, you mean there are cities other than London?? :shock:

;)



There will soon be others from what i hear! :(

[Fizzy Fish]

Why should drivers pay for buses?

well you need to provide something as an alternative to those who you're pushing out of their cars, and actually that's the sort of thing which people who pay the congestion charge want to hear that it's going into.

Maybe sounds a bit odd, but of you think about it if you still drive your car and others now take the bus/tube (instead of staying in their car and paying the charge because there's no decent alternative), then you benefit from having clearer streets to drive on.

[yorkie_chris]

well you need to provide something as an alternative to those who you're pushing out of their cars

But if they didn't put money into the completely cr@p public transport system then they wouldn't need the stealth tax, and people would be able to afford to drive.
IMO public transport when run properly, i.e as a business can work and make money, off its own back without being bailed out by the general public being conned. So why should motorists pay for a service they choose not to use?

[ThEGr33k]

Better than going to dole scum imo... Guess thats the only constelation!

[lukemillar]

But if they didn't put money into the completely cr@p public transport system.....


Erm... London's public transport systems is actually (IMO) one of the best I have experienced in various cities I have visited. I certainly wouldn't call it cr@p.

[ThEGr33k]

I agree with luke. The best thing about going to london the couple of times ive been was going on the underground! :p

Most of the city is pretty dull. Gimme Sheffield any day. Oh and Oxford street sucks! :smt077

[gettin2dizzy]

The tube is fine if you're visiting, but try using it at peak time and then paying through the teeth for it.

Manchesters congestion charge scheme doesn't exempt bikes....

[Fizzy Fish]

But if they didn't put money into the completely cr@p public transport system then they wouldn't need the stealth tax, and people would be able to afford to drive.
IMO public transport when run properly, i.e as a business can work and make money, off its own back without being bailed out by the general public being conned. So why should motorists pay for a service they choose not to use?

the problem is that a free market for say bus services tends to neglect the non-profitable routes in favour of the more profitable ones, so you end up with some areas not being served at all, even though there are people who are reliant on the bus to get to shops & essential services. So some sort of intervention/subsidy is always going to be needed to cover this.

totally agree though that public transport outside of London is generally pants, which is why people have been deserting it for ages. The reality is that given the choice between car/bike and public transport noone chooses the latter, no matter how good - unless they can't afford a car/are unable to drive.

The result is increasing congestion and vehicle emissions, which costs businesses money, increases the time it takes you to get to work, etc and increases heath problems. This scenario also further puts people off cycling/walking, which are the most sustainable ways to travel. So doing nothing isn't always an option, well that is if you think these any of these things are important.

BTW I'm not necessarily supporting congestion charging schemes, just pointing out the other side of the story! It's a difficult one to sort out, and any solution is going to involve some amount of making people do things that in an ideal world they'd prefer not to do. The important thing is to try and get people to make the switch by choice, and for those who don't to make the transition as easy/pleasant as possible.

[Fizzy Fish]

Manchesters congestion charge scheme doesn't exempt bikes....

this is rubbish - bikes don't cause congestion and they're just using this as an excuse to rake in the cash :(

[gettin2dizzy]

this is rubbish - bikes don't cause congestion and they're just using this as an excuse to rake in the cash :(
When there was all the talk about the massive numbers of people protesting at the road pricing idea; Manchester council said they had no plans to introduce any road pricing or congestion zones. 3 days later I had a leaflet through the door with the finished plans and dates it was to be implemented! I don't believe any council could even get them printed in a week never mind come up with the entire idea, get it cleared, get the promitional material together and then distribute it. The lies are sickening.