RFID to track your every move...

[Spiderman]

For many years now Govts have been trying to find a way to give us all an RFID chip but have come up against some very strong resistance.

From firstly trying to secretly place them into Gillette shaving products (everyone men and women shave something and Gillette is the market leader so it made sense to join forces)
more here... http://www.boycottgillette.com/

To M&S sowing it into certain clothing ranges to "assist with stock control"
more here.. http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/3093101

The UK (and other) Govts with the "biometic" passports and ID cards and tried to force it upon us all by stealth, only when you renew your pasport will you see the RFID chip in the new one. You get no choice if you want it or not.

And today i spotted this... http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23422768-details/School+to+track+pupils+with+radio+chips+sewn+into+ their+uniforms/article.do
Easy to get kids to do as they're told when their school sanctions them being tracked for utterly spurious reasons.

And now this idea of VIPs having their bodies chipped in an attempt to make us think "well if these (so called) important, rich people are having it done then it'd be cool if i had one too" in an attempt to make it socialy acceptable to live your life with a chip in you. ooh how cool is that. Not.
http://www.rfidbuzz.com/news/2004/chip_the_vip.html

George Orwell would either be laughing his head off at how easily we all got roped into this "Nu Future" or he'd be calling us to arms to overthrow the evil oppresors who want to know our every move, second by second 365 days a year.

couple all this with the new secuirty questions we will all be asked to answer when leaving this country and it makes me womder why the powers that be want to know so much about us average joes....yet do so little to catch major criminals.

Discuss.

[the_lone_wolf]

Discuss.
http://www.sexhamster.com/weblog/macropics/tinfoil-hat.jpg

[yorkie_chris]

or he'd be calling us to arms to overthrow the evil oppresors

Wahey, civil war!

[Biker Biggles]

Like I mentioned on the Government loses CD with everyones bank details thread,it amazes me that no one cares that they hold so much information about us.The thread goes on and on about blame,incompetance,junior clerks,encryption or not and security,but hardly anyone sees a problem in all that information being held centrally in the first place.
A big "I told you so" from Mr Orwell coming soon.

[Spiderman]

Like I mentioned on the Government loses CD with everyones bank details thread,it amazes me that no one cares that they hold so much information about us.The thread goes on and on about blame,incompetance,junior clerks,encryption or not and security,but hardly anyone sees a problem in all that information being held centrally in the first place.
A big "I told you so" from Mr Orwell coming soon.

The first reply to this thread proves your point very well i think BB.

No Lone Wolf, its not a conspiracy...its a fact.

And i cant see why Govts are being allowed to keep all this info on us all.

Some other schools are finger printing the pupils which is bad anough but at least its not something that tracks their every movement.

I wonder how long i'll have to sit and wait for the "if you got nothing to hide..." comments?

[glade]

I'll see your tin foil hat, and raise you tin foil pants!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/JR_Sandy/foil04.jpg

EDIT: Sorrry... got a bit carried away more serious post on page 2 ;)

[the_lone_wolf]

No Lone Wolf, its not a conspiracy...its a fact.

all conspiracy theorists say that:rolleyes:

besides, if you've got nothing to hide then...;)

[the_lone_wolf]

I'll see your tin foil hat, and raise you tin foil pants!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/JR_Sandy/foil04.jpg
i've even taken steps to protect my pets from the mind rays...

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7720/tinfoilhat2cy2.jpg

[glade]

There is a growing market, many fasionable designs availible.

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/kutcherside.jpg

[the_lone_wolf]

i think my employer is spying on me...

http://home.freeuk.com/nedslider/image007.jpg

[glade]

Seriously though... do you REALLY think that RFID chips in M&S sweaters is a real threat to your privacy? Surely thats only going to worry people over the age of 30? One day you'll have a washing machine that interrogates every load you put in, and stops the cycle if you've put a red sock in with your white shirts... sounds like a useful application.

You cite Gillette for having RFID chips in their razorblade packets... high value goods are commonly tagged with this system (take a look on the next CD or DVD you buy from HMV etc). I'm not sure i believe the camera conspiricy... clearly Gillette have far easier means of getting their customer profile - i'd happily tell them all about my shopping habits for even a 10% discount on my next pack of blades.

I use RFID in my factory to track inventory. Incoming material gets a sticker that contains an RFID chip and antenna. The WIP counter (Work in progress) is a bloke who wanders around the factory every day with a hand held scanner. Using both passive and active RFID systems, he can tell how much inventory we have on the shelves without using a forklift to get 400kg boxes down from the top of the racking... nothing too sinister there!

The reason I mention passive and active systems is that Passive RFID (a silicone chip with an antenna) only really works at close range... perhaps less than 3m. The scanner sends a signal, the radio waves pass through the antenna and induce a small current that powers the actual chip. This then sends a small signal back to the hand held unit. Passive systems only work at close range... not much good for tracking people's every move, but OK for stopping shoplifters from walking out of a 3m wide doorway.

Active systems require a power source. That could be a small battery inside the tag or a hard wired supply e.g. tax disc holders that contain a chip for congestion charging. When interrogated by the scanner an active chip can send it's information much further.

Information on the chips is encoded, but how secure that is i don't know. I imagine someone out there could crack the code.

TBH I'd be more worried about youths carrying knives and hanging around outside asda.

[northwind]

For many years now Govts have been trying to find a way to give us all an RFID chip but have come up against some very strong resistance.

From firstly trying to secretly place them into Gillette shaving products

Hang on Spidey, are you implying that the Gillette thing is a government conspiracy? I think you're reaching a bit with the VIP bugs thing too, RFID does have those creepy big brother connotations but it's ace for that sort of thing. I'm looking forward to living in sci-fi with a credit card implanted in my wrist.

[MiniMatt]

Oh, and the super secure RFID passports - that's already cracked - more than a year ago - http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/story/0,,1950226,00.html

If you don't have anything to hide, you still have EVERYTHING to fear.

[$tevo]

Hang on Spidey, are you implying that the Gillette thing is a government conspiracy? I think you're reaching a bit with the VIP bugs thing too, RFID does have those creepy big brother connotations but it's ace for that sort of thing. I'm looking forward to living in sci-fi with a credit card implanted in my wrist.

Are you absolutely sure about that?

Revelation 13: 16-17

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.:smt077

[wyrdness]

I've got an M&S RFID tag here right now*. They're in the little paper label with the price and size that's attached to the garment with a plastic tag. I don't know of anybody who doesn't remove the price label before wearing their clothes.

Are you just trying to wind us up here?


* I don't normally buy clothes in M&S, but yesterday I got a pair of their moleskin jeans. They're very comfortable, but I do feel sorry for the poor moles.

[Well Oiled]

So are the RFID tags sewn into the garments as spidey says or are they just on the tags that you remove efter buying it?

[the_lone_wolf]

So are the RFID tags sewn into the garments as spidey says or are they just on the tags that you remove efter buying it?
you would notice if they were in your clothes, they're usually a couple of inches square in order to provide enough length of metal for the aerial to be functional

[northwind]

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.:smt077

Ah, outstanding. The Mark of VISA.

[Well Oiled]

you would notice if they were in your clothes, they're usually a couple of inches square in order to provide enough length of metal for the aerial to be functional

So M&S, the secret branch of the government's secret unit for undercover survelliance of all UK citizens, get to know that I bought a nice cashmere sweater for £40 (Assuming I choose to pay with a card). My god - call everyone to arms - REVOLUTION !!

[the_lone_wolf]

My god - call everyone to arms - REVOLUTION !!
YES, throw out your money, credit cards, burn your cars, live off the land in montana and ride horses!!!




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/habitual/tinfoil.jpg

[Razor]

It could never happen here you're all saying, but what if the world as we know will soon come to an end. Not Armageddon, but a very different world to the one we all know and love so much. If TPTB knew that such a dramatic shift was going to happen don't you think they'd take measures to ensure they could control the population.
RFID could monitor all movement in and around public buildings and spaces. If we all had to use public transport then it's quite feasible that they could monitor the movement of all chip implanted people. Like sheep, our Shepards has realised the flock is too big to have the dog chasing us.

[the_lone_wolf]

...what if the world as we know will soon come to an end.
what if it doesn't though?:neutral:

you'll look awefully silly



and if it really does, there's always vigilantism:smt066

[Moffatt666]

Can't really say I'm bothered to be honest, I have to wear an ID card with an RFID chip embedded every day I'm at work to gain access to buildings and the trust of our customers.

[Spiderman]

Firstly...PMSL at some of those pics..:lol: Excellent.

.....I use RFID in my factory to track inventory....

Ah i'm glad theres someone here who is aware of and understands this technology. Good news.
I have no issue waht so ever with passive RFID systems used for stock control or logistics of freight.

Its where they put these items that concerns me. And how long they remain active for.
If all the chips were rendered inactive to any sytems once they reached their final RFID reader piont then no problem, but why do they remain active on items on my shelves at home?

Good post btw, nice to have some of your input as you work with them. I only ever encountered the older bulkier types when i did shop security myself many years ago.

Hang on Spidey, are you implying that the Gillette thing is a government conspiracy? I think you're reaching a bit with the VIP bugs thing too, RFID does have those creepy big brother connotations but it's ace for that sort of thing. I'm looking forward to living in sci-fi with a credit card implanted in my wrist.

LOL, no Northy dude. Sorry my bad for jumping from one thing to another.
I'm not suggesting that any Govt have conspired with Gillette or Tesco or Asda in any of these things. However with the ever increasing accesss to (and loss of) our personal info and new laws giving many govt agencies access to this data and more, then i'm sure if wanted it they'd get their hands on it.
And this is the rub for me. For all the effort involved in tracking so many RFIDs just how much benefit is it to them? I just dont get it.

Oh and you would enjoy the idea of the credit card implant i'm sure. After all you'd also be the first to welcome our alien-robot overlords on their arrival you nutjob! :lol:


Are you just trying to wind us up here?


I wish i was buddy. Its all true.

So are the RFID tags sewn into the garments as spidey says or are they just on the tags that you remove efter buying it?

The RFIDs are in the material somewhere.
Tags are pointless as they can come off and RFID is often used as a "start to finish tracking system" not just for the whole item but some of its component parts too thru the manufacturing process.

you would notice if they were in your clothes, they're usually a couple of inches square in order to provide enough length of metal for the aerial to be functional

I guess the ones you work with are but there is a lot of choice for various applications i guess.
\for example...
http://www.boycottgillette.com/aboutrfid.html
That was the size in 2003
and by 2005 they were ..
http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/030902.html
&
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=103

So no, you wouldnt know they were in your clothes.

It could never happen here you're all saying, but what if the world as we know will soon come to an end. Not Armageddon, but a very different world to the one we all know and love so much. If TPTB knew that such a dramatic shift was going to happen don't you think they'd take measures to ensure they could control the population.
RFID could monitor all movement in and around public buildings and spaces. If we all had to use public transport then it's quite feasible that they could monitor the movement of all chip implanted people. Like sheep, our Shepards has realised the flock is too big to have the dog chasing us.

Ah someone who has a pont of view on why they would benefit from it. Thanks Razor, its given me some food for thought.

Speaking of food... worryingly some scientists who have looked at this issue from another angle are concerned about the health implications.

In the US, at least 300 consumer products, including sunscreen, toothpaste and shampoo are now made using nanotechnology, according to a Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars report...

...Non-profit policy group, the International Center for Technology Assessment, is suing the FDA, calling for more oversight of nanotechnology.

"Nano means more than just tiny. It means these materials can be fundamentally different, exhibiting chemical and physical properties that are drastically different," says George Kimbrell, staff attorney at the group. "The consumer is being made the guinea pig."

More here
http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/dn12358-fda-finds-no-proof-of-harm-with-nanotech-products.html

Now if this stuff is getting into our bodies by design or accident isnt that something else to worry about. We could all be walking about with huundreds of ingested RFIDs in years to coem and not even know about it.

Maybe it'll turn us all into cyborgs, lol.

[the_lone_wolf]

So no, you wouldnt know they were in your clothes.
my god, and i was about to go and wear my new shirt tomorrow without putting it in the microwave first...

from your own link:

The primary features of this revolutionary µ-Chip are as follows.
(1) A RFID IC chip measuring only 0.4mm X 0.4mm with built-in antenna Despite its extremely small size, this µ-Chip has a built-in antenna to permit contactless communications (at very close proximity) with other devices without using an external antenna.
see the slight caveat: "at very close proximity"

keep an eye out for the guys with a barcode scanner trying to shuffle up to within 10cm of you on the tube, the ray-bans give them away:

http://www.independentcritics.com/images/men%20in%20black%20SPLASH.jpg

the damn interesting article only describes how rfid could in theory open an avenue for invasion of privacy, no facts, no actual examples or evidence of it occurring at all... what they are suggesting is that someone, somewhere, is going to be keeping a database of billions of purchases? what possible use would a list of someone's grocery shopping be to anyone? if the authorities were really desperate to find out if you were buying too many carrots they already know your credit card details and when you paid for your food, the stores will have records of what they sold when, copies of receipts etc, put two and two together (the answer is not five) and they already have all the information they would glean from using rfid to track your shopping habits...

as for "boycott gillette" i'm sure the information they hand out is unbiased (insert even more sarcastic smiley than :rolleyes: here) - and any conspiracy group whose slogan is "i'd rather grow a beard" is obviously ****ing nuts:smt043

[gettin2dizzy]

I think the point is that companies that spend the money on RFID will take whatever steps they can to maximise the profit of them, with no thought to our privacy. As for tracking kids, that's just sick. I thought it was interesting that in this Meridith case they used mobile signals to find out who was in the specific area at the time; I didn't know they were allowed to store this information. Scary.

[tigersaw]

I thought it was interesting that in this Meridith case they used mobile signals to find out who was in the specific area at the time; I didn't know they were allowed to store this information. Scary.

The fact that most people carry a personal tracker accessable to the law enforcement agencies has been a godsend for them.First time I knew of it used was in the Soham murder enquiry to try and trap Huntley.