Muhammted

[gettin2dizzy]

Absolutely Bonkers! 40 Lashes?!

A British school teacher has been arrested in Sudan accused of insulting Islam's Prophet, after she allowed her pupils to name a teddy bear Muhammad.


Colleagues of Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, said she made an "innocent mistake" by letting the six and seven-year-olds choose the name. Ms Gibbons was arrested after several parents made complaints.
The BBC's correspondent Amber Henshaw said Ms Gibbons' punishment could be up to six months in jail, 40 lashes or a fine.


Fellow teachers at Khartoum's Unity High School told Reuters news agency they feared for Ms Gibbons' safety after receiving reports that men had started gathering outside the police station where she was being held. The school's director, Robert Boulos, said: "This is a very sensitive issue. We are very worried about her safety.


Mr Boulos said Ms Gibbons was following a British national curriculum course designed to teach young pupils about animals and this year's topic was the bear.
So Ms Gibbons, who joined the school in August, asked a seven-year-old girl to bring in her teddy bear and asked the class to pick names for it, he said.
"They came up with eight names including Abdullah, Hassan and Muhammad," Mr Boulos said.
"Then she explained what it meant to vote and asked them to choose the name." Twenty out of the 23 children chose Muhammad as their favourite name.

It is seen as an insult to Islam to attempt to make an image of the Prophet Muhammad.


Mr Boulos said Ms Gibbons was arrested on Sunday at her home inside the school premises after a number of parents complained to Sudan's Ministry of Education.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42145000/jpg/_42145912_protest_ap203body.jpg Cartoons of the Prophet led to protests around the world in 2006


He said police had seized the book and asked to interview the girl who owned the bear. The country's state-controlled Sudanese Media Centre reported that charges were being prepared "under article 125 of the criminal law" which covers insults against faith and religion.

[DanDare]

Again, as much as it seems stupid to us, this is how they do things in there country. Who are we to judge?:rolleyes:

[hovis]

so she was teaching out in Sudan??

seems harsh.............. but she should have been aware of things like this

[gettin2dizzy]

Brutal. Almost as bizarre as this

Saudi justice officials say a woman who was sentenced to prison and flogging after she was gang-raped has now confessed to an extramarital affair.
The case of the unidentified women, 19, drew international criticism after an appeal increased her 90-lash sentence to 200 lashes and six months' jail.

The justice ministry statement rejected "foreign interference" in the case.
It insisted the ruling was legal and that the women had "confessed to doing what God has forbidden".
The statement carried by the official press agency late on Saturday said the sentence would be carried out in accordance with Saudi law.
The woman was initially to be punished for violating strict gender segregation laws in Saudi Arabia, for riding in the car of a man who was not related to her when they were attacked.

"The Saudi justice minister expressed his regret about the media reports over the role of the women in this case which put out false information and wrongly defend her," the statement said.
"The charged girl is a married woman who confessed to having an affair with the man she was caught with."

Adultery is a punishable offence in Saudi Arabia's strict system of Islamic law, and correspondents say judges are given wide powers to impose custodial sentences or corporal punishment.
She says two men entered the car and drove them to a secluded area where others were waiting, and both she and her companion were raped.

Her sentence was increased on appeal after judges wanted to punish her for attempting to use the media to influence the case. Her attackers' sentences - originally up to five years - were also doubled.
Several governments and human rights groups have condemned her sentence and urged it to be lifted. Canada described it as "barbaric".
The US, a major Saudi ally, declined to condemn to sentence, but did call it "astonishing".





-That last bit about America shows how sick politics is

[yorkie_chris]

And these things are supposedly "equal" to us?

[Ed]

This is a case for some quiet diplomacy, methinks.

[missyburd]

Again, as much as it seems stupid to us, this is how they do things in there country. Who are we to judge?:rolleyes:

that's true enough. But in a predominantly Islamic community the children aren't exactly gonna know names other than those that are used in the culture they've grown up in, what the heck do they expect?

I'm surprised they let any parent call their kid Muhammed if they feel that strongly about it...

[Warthog]

But mohammed is the most common name in the world! It's like us calling it Dave or something.

[missyburd]

exactly! so what's wrong with giving a teddy bear the name? was the kiddies' decision anyway

[yorkie_chris]

I think I might name my next dog muhammed and see if it provokes a civil war. :cool:

[philipMac]

Again, as much as it seems stupid to us, this is how they do things in there country. Who are we to judge?:rolleyes:


This argument just fails for me.
It is simply wrong to beat the crap out of a person for calling a teddy Mohamed.
It is wrong to beat the crap out of a person for being gang raped.
Its wrong to fly planes into buildings, drop bombs on countries for oil profit margins, cut villagers up with machettes or round up millions of Jews blacks and gays and gas them.

I dont care about whose country this is. Certain things are just wrong.

[hovis]

This argument just fails for me.
It is simply wrong to beat the crap out of a person for calling a teddy Mohamed.
It is wrong to beat the crap out of a person for being gang raped.
Its wrong to fly planes into buildings, drop bombs on countries for oil profit margins, cut villagers up with machettes or round up millions of Jews blacks and gays and gas them.

I dont care about whose country this is. Certain things are just wrong.

yes........... but thats just the way it is, thats why i would never go to any of these places.

[Ollie_07]

Words fail me, although ****ing stupid and uncivilised is a start!

[Xan173]

I swear when I read this story on the BBC news website today I thought "I bet gettin2dizzy posts this on the SV site".
Can I suggest you find a way to add an RSS ticker to your signature displaying the day's news, that way you'll not have to post it.

:smt075 "with this sword I dub thee King of Cut & Paste"

[philipMac]

yes........... but thats just the way it is, thats why i would never go to any of these places.


That's fine for you Hovis, but being born a Jew, an Iraqi, black, female etc etc in the wrong place leaves you with very little choice.

And, it is still wrong. Some @sshole in some government saying its ok doesn't change anything.

[hovis]

That's fine for you Hovis, but being born a Jew, an Iraqi, black, female etc etc in the wrong place leaves you with very little choice.

And, it is still wrong. Some @sshole in some government saying its ok doesn't change anything.

she had the choice not to leave liverpool for sudan.

[redbouy]

Maybe all the kiddes should be locked up as well. plus who told them the name, sold them the teddy, imported it. blah blah blah. This is what happens when religon is allowed to run free. And we all think or gov is a bit batty.

[gettin2dizzy]

I swear when I read this story on the BBC news website today I thought "I bet gettin2dizzy posts this on the SV site".
Can I suggest you find a way to add an RSS ticker to your signature displaying the day's news, that way you'll not have to post it.

:smt075 "with this sword I dub thee King of Cut & Paste"

hehe.
I don't think I posted any last week! I'm on a new(s) diet :)

I'm only trying to educate the Org...... Camels have three eye lids btw ;)

[hovis]

hehe.
I don't think I posted any last week! I'm on a new(s) diet :)

;)i bet you did

[gettin2dizzy]

hehe...maybe one...

[Balky001]

she had the choice not to leave liverpool for sudan.

:D, that made me laugh. I guess anyone wondering on the street is fair game for a kicking as they chose to leave the house and we all know there are bad people in the world. Nice :D

I can't believe the majority of people in that country believe this is credible either, just a bunch of thick locals and a half-baked judge.

[Sid Squid]

There certainly is a case for saying "When in Rome" etc, but as Phillip says the sheer barbarity of such decisions and laws simply can't be explained away in such a simple way.
Particularly as there is a certain element of Islamic society in our country who have, so far anyway, at least stated their desire to reject British law and impose Sharia law, if that is acceptable here, (case you're wondering, it ain't), then need non Moslems in other countries feel bound by the local law? It's simply painfully arrogant that those persons who in our country who may feel this way are the ones who would likely support the decision to punish someone for calling a teddy Mohammed.
I particularly find this upsetting as we are in a time of tension twixt our two cultures, and would find it sensible at the very least for the Sudanese authorities to think a dab bigger and not inflame a situation for a transgression that they simply cannot be unaware will be considered trivial to our general way of thinking.

[yorkie_chris]

at least stated their desire to reject British law and impose Sharia law,

I like the point of veiw that states; "if you don't like it, sod off."

[Draper]

that is absolutely ridiculous, considering half their children are called mohammad, true its not the peace be upon him spelling, but the bears name didn't have to be spellt the true way

i know multiple mohammads!

See we slag of britain, but if you exclude the extremes, we're a fairly tidy place

[therealvw]

From The Prime Minister of Australia. No doubt some have read this, already, but here goes.
bit long but enjoy.

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.



A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament.



"If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television. "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.



Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.



Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."



"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia."



"However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand."



"This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."



"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"



"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!"



"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."



"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."



"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.



"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."



"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

[SV-net]

Hmmm we aint allowed to say a peep to the spouting extremists in the UK - THATS WRONG - Lashes for a child naming a teddy - THATS WRONG - TAX taken from me at 40% when I have never earned the amount for it due - THATS WRONG - petrol/diesel at over a quid a litre - THATS WRONG -

To let it all go on and just accept it, maybe thats wrong. But we do? Why?

[philipMac]

she had the choice not to leave liverpool for sudan.

That's right. We all have the choice to sit at home, draw the dole, and scratch our hole.
We have other choices too. She went there to try and do something good, to teach. Some people get meaning from their lives in different ways.
Wagging your finger at them, saying told you so, is not really helpful.
Sorry Mr Schindler? You got caught saving people's lives and are now going to be tortured to death? Ahh. Well, no one forced you to save them. You broke their laws. You had the choice.

Hmmm we aint allowed to say a peep to the spouting extremists in the UK - THATS WRONG - Lashes for a child naming a teddy - THATS WRONG - TAX taken from me at 40% when I have never earned the amount for it due - THATS WRONG - petrol/diesel at over a quid a litre - THATS WRONG -

To let it all go on and just accept it, maybe thats wrong. But we do? Why?

These are small... but the ones out there are far away. Small... far away.

Emm. Riiiiight. You paying a pound a litre is not really exactly the same thing though, is it?
http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/images/FatherTed_ChirpyBurpyCheapSheep.jpg

[gettin2dizzy]

That's right. We all have the choice to sit at home, draw the dole, and scratch our hole.


The SV community hole?! eurgh!

[Kinvig]

I like the point of veiw that states; "if you don't like it, sod off."

That argument probably goes the same for everyone moaning about Teddy Mohammed doesn't it?

The teacher went to that country & probably should have been a bit more clued up about local laws/customs.

[neio79]

From The Prime Minister of Australia. No doubt some have read this, already, but here goes.
bit long but enjoy.

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.



A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament.



"If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television. "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.



Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.



Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."



"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia."



"However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand."



"This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."



"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"



"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!"



"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."



"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."



"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.



"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."



"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."

The Uk could do with learing from that 100% , i agree with that stance completly, shall we ask him to be our Priminister?? some one with the balls to not worry about other PC fluffy people and say what most people actually think.

[wheelnut]

Is that the ex prime minister of Australia you are quoting?

[Kinvig]

The Uk could do with learing from that 100% , i agree with that stance completly, shall we ask him to be our Priminister?? some one with the balls to not worry about other PC fluffy people and say what most people actually think.


Funnily enough I disagree with much what he said.

1, The average aussie has imposed their view points on the indigenous population - so to say "We are an x,y,z-law country, if you want to be an a,b,c-law country - find one" kind of is a bit hypocritical.

2, He mentions "Christian this, that, the other". I don't want the laws of the country I live in to be based upon any religious ideal. I want laws based upon the consensus of the masses not upon some religious indoctrination (The 10 commandments, sharia law etc).

[Tiger 55]

Is that the ex prime minister of Australia you are quoting?
Certainly is. Been replaced by a chap who is planning an apology to the Indigenous Australians. A real, meaningful, substantive (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/27/2102422.htm?section=justin) apology. Bit of a shift from the 'don't like it then p!ss off' regime...

However, that does mean Howard and Costello are available for employment :thumbsup:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Funnily enough I disagree with much what he said.

1, The average aussie has imposed their view points on the indigenous population - so to say "We are an x,y,z-law country, if you want to be an a,b,c-law country - find one" kind of is a bit hypocritical.

Same with the US and native americans, and here with the romans, french etc etc, but that was several centuries ago. Whether it was 'right' for one country to invade another is another question, but the fact remains that the country is as it is and you can't judge people for what their distant relatives did.

2, He mentions "Christian this, that, the other". I don't want the laws of the country I live in to be based upon any religious ideal. I want laws based upon the consensus of the masses not upon some religious indoctrination (The 10 commandments, sharia law etc).

Think you've missunderstood what he ment. He wasn't saying that laws should be based on any religious ideal, Christian or otherwise (hence the secular state statement). He was commenting on traditions that ARE based on a religion, so that's why Christmas is celibrated, and not other religious holidays.

[yorkie_chris]

2, He mentions "Christian this, that, the other". I don't want the laws of the country I live in to be based upon any religious ideal. I want laws based upon the consensus of the masses not upon some religious indoctrination (The 10 commandments, sharia law etc).

Big differences there, I'd much rather be somewhere they celebrate christmas than somewhere you're likely to get shot for drawing a cartoon!

[gettin2dizzy]

The Uk could do with learing from that 100% , i agree with that stance completly, shall we ask him to be our Priminister?? some one with the balls to not worry about other PC fluffy people and say what most people actually think.
Well he's free as of this week. He just got voted out of Ozzie parliament.

[gettin2dizzy]

How about somewhere where 24/7 means you can buy a beer on a sunday after 4.30 :)

[Warthog]

I applaud that statement by John Howard, if only more people had the guts to go against the PC brigade and stand up for the will of the vast majority, democracy and decency.

[gettin2dizzy]

And now time for the worlds worlds most ridiculous statement
Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool has been charged in Sudan with insulting religion, inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs.

Naughty woman! I'm glad they're against causing any of this...I dread to think what they'd do if they were for it...

[hovis]

And now time for the worlds worlds most ridiculous statement


Naughty woman! I'm glad they're against causing any of this...I dread to think what they'd do if they were for it...

i would do her for being nasty to a teddy bear aswell

[missyburd]

And now time for the worlds worlds most ridiculous statement


Naughty woman! I'm glad they're against causing any of this...I dread to think what they'd do if they were for it...

why the heck did she go there then if she feels like that? :scratch:

[gettin2dizzy]

i would do her for being nasty to a teddy bear aswell
You'd do anything ;)
why the heck did she go there then if she feels like that? :scratch:
She called a Teddy 'Muhammed'. The second most common boys name in England. That's what those crimes relate to

[missyburd]

You'd do anything ;)

She called a Teddy 'Muhammed'. The second most common boys name in England. That's what those crimes relate to

oops.. i thought you were on about some other woman... shakes head in embarassment

[yorkie_chris]

oops.. i thought you were on about some other woman... shakes head in embarassment
Read the thread dear :p

Personally I think shes a muppet to be there, I'd rather stay clear of barbarian places meself.
She also allowed the kids to vote on the teddies name, which probably doesn't help judging by how popular democracy is in such parts of the world!

[gettin2dizzy]

Read the thread dear :p

Personally I think shes a muppet to be there, I'd rather stay clear of barbarian places meself.
She also allowed the kids to vote on the teddies name, which probably doesn't help judging by how popular democracy is in such parts of the world!
hehehe. What a bonkers place.

So would you have
2 years in jail
or
40 lashes?

[Grinch]

I've been thinking about this... and... if you go there then you should understand these things might happen. It is extreme, but that is there culture, extreme.

[Ping]

I just wouldn't bother going to any country like that.

[Draper]

i'd go for 40 lashes, but then i think that would be the most painful thing ever, probably left with scarring and that

but i'd rather not waste away two years of my life in jail, specially if i had kids and that!

[missyburd]

i'd go for 40 lashes, but then i think that would be the most painful thing ever, probably left with scarring and that

i wonder if anyone actually gets thrills out of the lashings, thin line between pain and pleasure and all that malarky

[yorkie_chris]

Knowing them nutters they probably use a fence post or something spiky

[philipMac]

i wonder if anyone actually gets thrills out of the lashings, thin line between pain and pleasure and all that malarky

These lashes may not be what you are imagining here.
People regularly die after being lashed, a healthy young man getting say 80 lashes at one time may very well die from shock, or heart failure shortly after the event.

[missyburd]

People regularly die after being lashed, a healthy young man getting say 80 lashes at one time may very well die from shock, or heart failure shortly after the event.

i can imagine :-| thought 40 was extreme but 80? and just out of interest do they decrease numbers for women?
is there anywhere else in the world that gives lashings as punishment other than the Middle East etc?

[hovis]

is there anywhere else in the world that gives lashings as punishment other than the Middle East etc?scotland?

[missyburd]

and just out of interest do they decrease numbers for women?

http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2007/03/rape_victim_sen hmm guess not...

[Balky001]

is there anywhere else in the world that gives lashings as punishment other than the Middle East etc?

Far East, Singapore has the katana (corporal punishment was introduced by the British!) and I think Isle of Man still has the birch although not used since mid 70s. Most public schools! A few countries in Asia (China, Brunei, Malaysia etc), South America and Africa. Europe just tax people to death:D

[missyburd]

Far East, Singapore has the katana (corporal punishment was introduced by the British!) and I think Isle of Man still has the birch although not used since mid 70s. Most public schools! A few countries in Asia (China, Brunei, Malaysia etc), South America and Africa. Europe just tax people to death:D

cheers, and that last sentence too blumin true, although as a student i don't have to pay it thankfully, the robbing sods.

[Ed]

i would do her for being nasty to a teddy bear aswell

I thought that this was very funny:smt045

[therealvw]

Is that the ex prime minister of Australia you are quoting?

Looks like it doesn't it. 12 years at the helm! Lets see if Australia goes the way the UK has after the dominion of Thatcher!

And of course France. Yet more Riots . Who's to blame?!?!

[missyburd]

have only just heard this story on the radio, took 'em a while :-s

[gettin2dizzy]

Poor woman. I hope this case makes the British review their dealing with countries running by primitive laws, including my company who makes a fortune from one famous one in particular.

[Daimo]

She was being sentanced this morning?

Anyone know the results?

[missyburd]

think its still ongoing... will have to wait for the next bulletin to find out, unless someone gets there first?

[Welsh_Wizard]

Utterly unbelievable.

Hopefully the Sudanese government will see it as a complete misunderstanding on her part and at its worst, just chuck her out of the coutry. Can't see her wanting to stay after all this anyhow's..

[gettin2dizzy]

It's amazing we're putting up with this. What happened to the days when Britain wasn't a power to be messed with. If this happened when Maggie was about we would have issued Military threats demanding her to be returned to England! But we're sitting back while a woman in her 50s is at risk of being lashed or imprisoned for naming a teddy bear the 'wrong name'....
Why are we trusting a legal system that can not recognise this womans actions were that of every teacher in the UK, that they had no racial or religous motive! It's a pathetic response by our goverment and utterly disappointing.
Any Muslim of any stature in Britain should be appealing to the Sudans for her imminent release not only for humanitarian sake but also to defend their religion. So far only the head of the Muslim council has uttered a word.

(it's been bugging me all day waiting for an answer, so I can't imagine how she must feel)

[wheelnut]

head of the Muslim council

What does that mean?

Who voted him / her in?

Is it like the head of my local council? It is his job to get rid of rubbish and count policemen.

Im sick of hearing about muslim leaders in this country. If they have a leader it is the same as mine, unfortunately it is Gordon Brown or Her Majesty the Queen

[hovis]

It's amazing we're putting up with this. What happened to the days when Britain wasn't a power to be messed with. If this happened when Maggie was about we would have issued Military threats demanding her to be returned to England! But we're sitting back while a woman in her 50s is at risk of being lashed or imprisoned for naming a teddy bear the 'wrong name'....
Why are we trusting a legal system that can not recognise this womans actions were that of every teacher in the UK, that they had no racial or religous motive! It's a pathetic response by our goverment and utterly disappointing.
Any Muslim of any stature in Britain should be appealing to the Sudans for her imminent release not only for humanitarian sake but also to defend their religion. So far only the head of the Muslim council has uttered a word.

(it's been bugging me all day waiting for an answer, so I can't imagine how she must feel)


cant we send rambo to bomb the **** out of sudan, and rescue her?

[hovis]

shes been found

guilty

[gettin2dizzy]

Disgusting isn't it. 20 years ago she wouldn't have been arrested, and we wouldn't have left her there if she was. They didn't allow the Brit consulate inside the courtroom either; that's just despicable.
I really hope the Sudans responsible suffer because of this, and I'm not a spiteful person.
And I hope the Government get thrown out of power, they should be on the case and NOT be so engrossed in their own ****ing spin because they've been caught red handed being corrupt.

This has really rattled me as I can only imagine what it's like being in a country that barbaric, and being totally abandoned after arrest.

[yorkie_chris]

Simple moral to this story;

Dont go and teach in sudan, they're not grateful for people trying to help out their country and maybe give it a bit of a future. Leave these animals to their 3rd world ways as they're no good to us.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

We could invade, but I think they might still be armed to the teeth with mango's and guava halves.

[rob13]

Its terrible news but I often think that we should bring back flogging in this country. Prison is too soft

[furrybean]

Am I the only one that thinks if it was the choice between a year in prison or 40 lashes, I'd go for the lashes

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Its terrible news but I often think that we should bring back flogging in this country. Prison is too soft

Yeah, 'cos back in the day when the authorities maimed and killed in the name of 'justice', crime was so much lower :rolleyes:

[hovis]

Am I the only one that thinks if it was the choice between a year in prison or 40 lashes, I'd go for the lashes
thats what i thought........until i read this................

These lashes may not be what you are imagining here.
People regularly die after being lashed, a healthy young man getting say 80 lashes at one time may very well die from shock, or heart failure shortly after the event.

[G]

here is 40 reasons why i wouldnt want to recieve 40 lashes.....let alone subjct a 50 year old woman to it......thats like my mother having to be lashed....i dont think she would survive let alone ever recover.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/lashiran2208_800x619.jpg

[Ed]

Appalling. I thought that Allah was sposed to be 'all merciful' but I don't see any mercy here.

As for the photo - bunch of savages *disgust*

[gettin2dizzy]

If this was really a crime in the name of god, it should be up to god to make the decision on 'judgement day'. This is just cheap kicks for angry men.

[Balky001]

That picture is mob rule, the person doing the lashings should have a copy of the Koran under his arm to make sure he cannot lift his arm high enough to give a severe beating - funny that they forget about that isn't it. This is just an excuse for the ignorant to exert power.

[gettin2dizzy]

This is why I'm outspoken about religion. Islam - only because it is topical: I'm as interested in Christianity and Judaism however they tend to be very uneducated about their own religion and don't practice every detail so don't appear so radical.

One of the most sickening aspects of this is the complete lack of help offered by British Muslims; most articles I've read (look at the BBC for counter arguments, there are some amazingly) have been British Muslims saying they don't agree with the punishment/ruling. Where are the Muslims in places of power using this influence for benefit? By being quiet this only encourages and supports these views which quickly spread across both the Middle East and the UK. When Muslims next complain about their religion having a bad reputation they've only got themselves to blame.

[philipMac]

Just to elaborate / explain what I said earlier, the skin is an organ, and being lashed over and over with a cane, or leather strips (which is what I think they also use) will result in damage to that organ that would be equivalent to 3rd or 4th degree burns.

Third degree burn: The epidemis and dermis are damaged. No blisters appear, but white, brown, or black tissue and thrombosed vessels are visible
Fourth degree burn: Damage extends through deeply charred subcutaneous tissue to muscle and bone
You are going to experience far worse hygiene than you would have had you been burned, (since the burn will actually sterilise the site) any infectious agents will actually be driven inside your muscles, into your blood and body. This can cause septicemia, which means that your body basically mounts an immune response on your blood. You will then go into what's called "shock", and this is a very bad thing. Almost certain death at this point.

You are also going to probably not be taken care of, and thrown in a filthy cell for a few days, almost guaranteeing serious infection.

What your doctor will consider to be very serious / life threatening would be 3rd/4th deg burns over 10% of your body. There is an incredibly high level of mortality with burns over any reasonable amount of skin. Anything above 10% can result in death, *when treated in a hospital*, when you hit around >30% you are looking at a 50/50 chance of dieing.

Now, that's not even considering any other damage the flogging can do, it will probably also cause serious damage to muscle and to other tissues. Flogging can often resemble 4th degree burns interspersed with 3rd degree. A lot of damage will be permanent.
So, basically death is very much an option.

Not a nice way to go.

Of course, a lot these same enlightened countries will put you in a pit and smash you to death with rocks for being gay, or having sex outside marriage.



*Note... One of the reasons I looked at this was my uncle was arrested in Saudi for drug smuggling.
They wanted a white man, with a beard. They found one. It wasn't until his company that sent him out there (Ericson's for the record) stepped in, and suggested that he looked nothing like the man they were after was he released.
He was locked away for about 3 days, he isnt clear.
He never, ever said a word about it to any one. Ever. I think he more or less came to terms with being tortured to death. When he returned to Ireland, he wanted to be alone and see no one, and moved to the UK shortly afterwards. I am not sure if this had anything to do with it, but I think he was seriously changed by those three days.

Suffices to say he is not a huge fan of Sharia law.

[missyburd]

shes been found

guilty

15 days in prison, better than what could've been I guess but tis still ridiculous she was even found guilty in the first place :thumbdown: disgusting.

[Pedrosa]

Apparently the locals are today out on the streets protesting that the school teacher be shot!

Am I alone in thinking that her nievety in this case is beyond belief? Her lack of empathy with local culture and beliefs?:rolleyes:

[Biker Biggles]

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of their book and get a few thousand to demonstrate outside the Sudan embassy in London?Burn a few Sudanese flags and wreck a few embassy cars.That should show em.:cheers:

[Warthog]

Apparently the locals are today out on the streets protesting that the school teacher be shot!

Am I alone in thinking that her nievety in this case is beyond belief? Her lack of empathy with local culture and beliefs?:rolleyes:

Yes I think it is safe to say you are alone in that. She didn't even decide on the name, it was the kids! There is sympathy and respect for someone else's culture and then there is just downright crazy extremism. I don't see anyone that could have predicted it would go down like this. Apparently it wasn't even parents that complained, it was a fellow teacher who bore a grudge against her.

[Pedrosa]

Yes I think it is safe to say you are alone in that. She didn't even decide on the name, it was the kids! There is sympathy and respect for someone else's culture and then there is just downright crazy extremism. I don't see anyone that could have predicted it would go down like this. Apparently it wasn't even parents that complained, it was a fellow teacher who bore a grudge against her.

Odd the reports that I read stated yes the kids chose the name,(apparently it was an exercise in democratic voting) but she attached that name to the Teddy bear. A big no-no. Then the kids complained to their parents.

I have not seen the version that you mention.:confused:

[hovis]

Am I alone in thinking that her nievety in this case is beyond belief? Her lack of empathy with local culture and beliefs?:rolleyes:
no, your not....... she should have been a bit more clued up
Yes I think it is safe to say you are alone in that. .:confused:

[Ed]

My guess is that she's a covert MI6 officer, and that the Sudanese claim that this is a western plot to bring down Islam is true.

Sophie has lots of teddies. I like the name Mohammed so I'm going to christen one of them with that name and see if our neighbours throw bricks through my windows.

[Warthog]

Odd the reports that I read stated yes the kids chose the name,(apparently it was an exercise in democratic voting) but she attached that name to the Teddy bear. A big no-no. Then the kids complained to their parents.

I have not seen the version that you mention.:confused:

It was on radio 4 yesterday, a reporter who was at the trial. I will try to find some internet evidence.

Here we go: "
However, colleagues of Ms Gibbons told The Times that no such complaints had been received by any of the children’s parents. They pointed to a disgruntled fellow teacher as the possible source of the complaint. The woman, understood to be a member of a well-known, conservative family, is believed to have a grudge against Unity High School, set up 100 years ago by a Christian bishop.
Bishop Ezikiel Kondo, chairman of the school council, said: “It’s a kind of blackmail.”
One Sudanese woman whose seven-year-old son had hosted the bear for a weekend, said: “I didn’t complain and neither did any other of the other parents. Anyway she didn’t name the bear — it was the class. Really we think she is a good teacher.” "
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article2951262.ece

I think from that she is totally innocent. It's disgusting that people are out on the streets demanding that she be shot!

[Warthog]

no, your not....... she should have been a bit more clued up
:confused:

Yep, a little bit presumptious of me, i apologise.

[Alpinestarhero]

Crazy what religions have the power to make people become.

Matt

[hovis]

Yep, a little bit presumptious of me, i apologise.
its ok

i do think that the punishment is way OTT & its also stupid that its an offence to name the bear, but.......... she should have been aware of things like this before going to sudan to try to help them

[Mr Toad]

Burn the witch

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7121025.stm

I suspect that if I wondered past the local mosque with a teddy bear under my arm, the politically correct brigade would have me quickly locked away :-(

[hovis]

i got my neice a teddy with her name on , i wonder if you can get them with mohamed on?

[Pedrosa]

My guess is that she's a covert MI6 officer, and that the Sudanese claim that this is a western plot to bring down Islam is true.

Sophie has lots of teddies. I like the name Mohammed so I'm going to christen one of them with that name and see if our neighbours throw bricks through my windows.

Maybe move to the right "location" Ed and your wishes I am sure will be granted!

[Pedro68]

Well I never saw that one on a HSBC advert :rolleyes:

To be honest, I think that this is an over-zealous reaction. Yes she should have been bit more clued up, but this is taking the whole "ignorance is no defence" thing a bit too far (people are marching on the streets of Sudan demanding she be shot!).

What next? Shall we start flogging muslims who take "our" lords name in vain?! It's ridiculous.

As for the deportation, I should imagine that's probably in the best interests of her future well-being, and I dare say that after all this she will probably just be glad to be "home".

My tuppence worth.

[skint]

I wonder when our schools will bannish teddy's as a dangerous item alongside footballs and conkers! :confused:

[Warthog]

What next? Shall we start flogging muslims who take "our" lords name in vain?! It's ridiculous.


That is a very good point, I reckon that is very comparable!

[robaker]

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2007/11/30/never/

[gettin2dizzy]

http://www.jesusandmo.net/2007/11/30/never/
My new favourite website :)

[Pedro68]

And if anyone wants to make themselves the target of a Fatwa then may I suggest a multi-million-dollar blockbuster (guaranteed) called "The Life of Mohammed" (starring the cast of Monty Python) ...

[Now, in best Terry Jones playing a woman voice]
She's not a pariah ... it was just a "minor cultural faux pas" now ... SOD OFF!

Maybe Salman Rushdie would care to write the screenplay?!?