SV-650K7 & Race Tech Cartridge Emulators

[YZEtc]

Starting my winter-time-project suspension upgrades before winter even gets here, and now have a box of new FEGV S4101 Race Tech Emulators sitting beside me.
I've read here and on other SV message boards about installing and tuning these, and there seems to be more than a few different opinions as to what the correct way to do it is.
Basically (maybe compounded by the instructions that come with the Emulators seeming to be rather generic in nature, perhaps being written about 20 years ago when the emulators first came out), I'm reading more than a few posts saying thing like:

*Not to follow the Race Tech instructions to the letter
*Drill only 4 damper rod holes @10mm instead of 6 @8mm
*Don't block-off the stock rebound damping holes
*Use 15wt oil instead of 20wt
*Set the oil level @120mm instead of the recommended 130mm
*Set the Emulator valve preload at something less than 2 turns out

I understand that tuning for a rider's preference means two riders on identical bikes may end up with different settings, but I'm reading so many conflicting statements, I figure it's worth asking for myself here @4:30am Eastern time (before I dig into the forks) one more time before I start the installation/tuning process and find out for myself what works for me:

What should I do?
I weigh 150lbs in street clothes.
I ride the bike on the street like a sports bike.
The stock springs work well for my weight - it's just the crummy hydro-lock damping that makes me want to install the Emulators.

[chazzyb]

I think if I were doing it again, I would probably do the 4 x 10mm holes, rather than add 2 x 8mm. The curvy model damper tubes stock compression holes are 8mm already. I've got 15W in mine - seems fine. I'm just ever so such a little bit heavier than you too. ;-)

[johnnyrod]

Yep agree with all your ideas, but use the stock air gap. For emulator spring preload - this is a pain to set as it requries a stupid size Allen key (19/103rds or something, can't you guys realise you have ten fingers?) and you have to be careful when you screw it in to find the point where the slack has gone but the spring is not yet compressed - it's very soft at this point. Anyway go for 3-4 turns of preload, 4 if you're fat. That's 3-4 turns of compression after the preload bolt is wound down to take away all slack.

[Robw#70]

Right just to clear this up, a couple of weeks ago I was at Racetech and I asked Paul Thede about this (Paul Thede is the Inventor of the Emulator, writes all of the instructions, develops kits for new models and is the owner and founder of Racetech, Basically he is Racetech!!)

And his answer was that there was nothing wrong with the current instructions and they should be fitted as instructed.
He backed up my thoughts that the upper holes were not an issue on full compression.

3-4 turns is too much for road use, the preload on the emulator is for high speed damping so unless you like a knocky ride 2-3 is all you need bearing in mind anything over a .80 spring you'll be using 20wt oil to get the rebound.

The racetech airgap 130mm works perfectly using virtually all of the travel without bottoming.

Use a vernier to measure the length of the emulator spring, that way you can get them both the same and have a 'setting' instead of guessing where the starting point is.

[northwind]

I think the point would be that not everybody agrees with Paul Thede, Max McAllistair (Traxxion) for one. Me, I haven't a clue either way ;)

Oh, Rob, did you get my PM re the bellypan?

[zadar]

I think the point would be that not everybody agrees with Paul Thede, Max McAllistair (Traxxion) for one. Me, I haven't a clue either way ;)

you dont have to agree.you can feel it your self with simple test when fork is off the bike,before you put it on.

[Robw#70]

yes got your pm and replied

compressing the fork without the spring in and no fork cap doesnt really replacate what is actually going on

[zadar]

who said anything about no spring or fork cap?
it is very simple.by drilling additional holes you can make mistake and drill them little to high(seen it many times).by enlarging existing holes you can't go wrong.
some drill holes in oil lock cone or remove it all together making it even worst.
problem is not as much race tech instructions as is people doing it.it is sold as do it your self kit and lots of people make mistake.

[Robw#70]

So its the inability to read the instructions and use a ruler that the problem, no manufacturer can compensate for the customers incompetance.

Having read so much about 'The instructions are wrong' and 'No rebound when fitted this way', when actually there's nothing wrong with fitting them how they are intended apart from some of the people that have fitted them!

[zadar]

So its the inability to read the instructions and use a ruler that the problem, no manufacturer can compensate for the customers incompetance.

obviously it is one of the problems.reason I recommend to those that ask me not to drill additional holes but rather enlarge existing.this way there is 0 chance of screwing up and it does same thing as far oil flow goes.it is simple solution to solve problem.it also gives you option to remove or reduce hydraulic lock down the road if you desired to do so.
this is not bashing of race tech,this is just suggestion to do it better based on my opinion and experience.everybody is free to do it any way they want.

[zadar]

btw.it is fact than additional holes will pass seal and enter rebound chamber on full compression.I have cut fork leg to see this.will you ever experience this or feel and recognize is up to you.

[Lozzo]

I'll just pay Rob#70 to do mine when the time comes. That way I can kick his ar$e if he screws it up :D

[Robw#70]

Sounds like removing the brake pads to save weight, then complaining the bike doesnt stop very well to me!

99% of people that fit this stuff will not be removing the lock valve (most wont know what it is) so why create the confusion?

for everyone else, the lock valve (bottom out cup) is the reason the fork tubes lock when they are pushed all the way down when you change springs/seals/oil.
this is a hydraulic lock to prevent the forks from 'hard bottoming' as it slows the fork in the last inch or so of travel before its fully bottomed.
This hydraulic action works both ways and is in the same area of travel as the upper holes that are drilled to fit emulators, the hydraulic strength of the lock valve far out weighs the amount of rebound that is lost when the upper holes are above the seal in the fork tube.

Add to that the forces involved to get the fork this far compressed (unless the wrong springs are fitted) are only possible under heavy braking, heavy enough that the front tyre will break free if leant over before the forks would be compressed enough.

Chatter can come from excess highspeed damping (too much preload on emulator spring) or a natural frequency issue.
correct setup is the key and this will always change with rider preference, but the basics remain the same.

[zadar]

there is no point of arguing,like I said,do it any way you like it.
fyi.ohlins forks(arguably best out there)come stock without hydraulic lock.
ps.you just brought up 3 more points,wrong springs,hard braking correct set up.
there are things that work and things that work better.you can keep installing it following instructions and I will keep trying to make it better.
have fun.

[zadar]

This hydraulic action works both ways and is in the same area of travel as the upper holes that are drilled to fit emulators, the hydraulic strength of the lock valve far out weighs the amount of rebound that is lost when the upper holes are above the seal in the fork tube.

nope,it works only in one direction,compression.it has no effect on damping on the way back.

[Robw#70]

once the valve is sat in the tube it has hydraulic action in both directions, just before i agree its only on compression but once cup is in the tube it locks both ways, not ideal in a vaccum but force is there and in the same area as the upper holes being uncovered.

[zadar]

sorry but we will disagree there to.
it has no effect.valve has bleed hole.upper holes make it zero damping until seal is past.once past rebound hole and leakage past seals takes over.
there is no damping to slow down spring until small hole on top of rod kicks in.

[lukemillar]

Right just to clear this up, a couple of weeks ago I was at Racetech and I asked Paul Thede about this (Paul Thede is the Inventor of the Emulator, writes all of the instructions, develops kits for new models and is the owner and founder of Racetech, Basically he is Racetech!!)

And his answer was that there was nothing wrong with the current instructions and they should be fitted as instructed.
He backed up my thoughts that the upper holes were not an issue on full compression.

3-4 turns is too much for road use, the preload on the emulator is for high speed damping so unless you like a knocky ride 2-3 is all you need bearing in mind anything over a .80 spring you'll be using 20wt oil to get the rebound.

The racetech airgap 130mm works perfectly using virtually all of the travel without bottoming.

Use a vernier to measure the length of the emulator spring, that way you can get them both the same and have a 'setting' instead of guessing where the starting point is.

I'd do this! When I fitted mine, I looked at the concerns/questions people had and then emailed Racetech. In the end, I just did what Racetech said, to the letter! After all, they designed them and I put my faith in their product so I decided to put faith in how they say you should fit them! I never had any problems on the road or the track and was very happy with the improvement.

[YZEtc]

Thank you for the replies.

I installed the Emulators and decided to do it as per the supplied instructions with two exceptions:

1) I drilled the holes in the damper rods with the enlarge-the-existing-four-holes-to-10mm method.
2) I used 10wt fork oil (good ol' PJ-1 Fork Tuner) instead of the 20wt shown in the instructions.
I did use the recommended 130mm oil level.

(Actually, I first used 20wt, but I realized that this oil was too thick for the stock fork springs (which are OK for my weight) and current winter temperatures because the forks rebounded much too slowly.
Changing to 10wt was much better and seems to be the ticket until it gets warmer, though I doubt even then I'll be able to use 20wt.
We'll see).

My first (and only, so far) ride with the Emulators was very positive.
Basically, it feels like the same fork with a welcomed reducton in sharp-edged bumps adversely effecting the bike and rider.
I wasn't blown away by the difference with a maniacal grin on my face, but I also didn't get those annoying sharp hits transfered into the chassis as I rode over the bumps that used to do so, either.
Very nice, and I'm anxious to really get down with them once we pass the winter solstice, the sun's angle of inclination starts heading back in the proper direction, and all of this sandy/salty crap gets rinsed off the roads.

So, basically, they work and it was worth the time and money. :cheers: