View Full Version : Make an example
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 08:57 AM
This guy fell asleep at the wheel of his lorry and ploughed in to the back of a car killing 4 people. He made no effort to brake at all- he was flat out. He's only being tried with 4 counts of death by dangerous driving (which he pleads not-guilty) but should we make an example of him? A prison sentence won't bring them back to life; but will it serve as a reminder to the remaining lorry drivers?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/7127710.stm
Alpinestarhero
05-12-07, 09:03 AM
Well, it could be a good idea. I've seen alot of people in large lorries driving very fast, often overtaking all other traffic. Its very scary and make alot of people feel intimidated, I think. Yesterday, I was behind a big lorry and it moved over (no signalling) and I thought "ok, i'll go past". went to go alongside for the overtake (it was a two lane road) and then he decided to come back over (again, no signal). If i had a faster bike, i would have gone for it, and probably ended up squashed in the process.
I've waved lorries off from behind me before, as they have been driving too cloe for my comfort at speeds of 60 mph. I can stop quick at 60 mph, mr lorry driver cant.
I'm not saying all truck drivers are bad though, most are actualy erally good, and try and move over in traffic even when other people in cars dont, and the lorry is a damn sight bigger!
Matt
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 09:12 AM
I hate it when they drift across lanes, I often see then going in to the hard shoulder. I know it can be difficult to stay awake sometimes but to pull over is not difficult. Especially not when that is your job and you should have a professional attitude about it.
Wasn't there a lawyer recently who went the wrong way down a motorway & killed a biker....she then got let off for being a nice person or something.
You take away someone's life, you should face a prison sentence.
arenalife
05-12-07, 09:18 AM
Well he's being prosecuted for causing Death by Dangerous Driving, not just dangerous driving and that is far more serious. Prison is certain for him (if found guilty). The maximum sentence for DBDD is 14 years and he's on 4 counts....... The max penalty for DD is 6 months.
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 09:19 AM
She was a doctor, pretty dodgy case that one! It was on the basis that it would serve no benefit to anyone to put her away in prison.
Alpinestarhero
05-12-07, 09:20 AM
Wasn't there a lawyer recently who went the wrong way down a motorway & killed a biker....she then got let off for being a nice person or something.
You take away someone's life, you should face a prison sentence.
Yea, i rmember that. We should go and find her and...soemthing
Matt
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 09:20 AM
Well he's being prosecuted for causing Death by Dangerous Driving, not just dangerous driving and that is far more serious. Prison is certain for him (if found guilty). The maximum sentence for DBDD is 14 years and he's on 4 counts....... The max penalty for DD is 6 months.
oops- corrected. :smt031
Seems pretty clear cut to me, he caused 4 deaths by driving when asleep- dangerously.
Pedro68
05-12-07, 09:25 AM
Just to throw something else into the hat here ... I do NOT condone in any way what this driver has done ... however sometimes I think that some of these haulage companies actually put unfair burdens on their drivers in expecting them to make ridiculous journeys just to meet equally ridiculous collection/delivery deadlines.
That doesn't excuse the drivers, but if some of those haulage companies didn't put so much pressure on their drivers then the drivers wouldn't feel forced into driving when they shouldn't.
plowsie
05-12-07, 09:27 AM
I don't think prison is gonna solve it. The guy has killed 4 people yes, but he didnt know what he was doing. Yes yes i know he shoulda pulled over. But prison sentence is a bit harsh IMO. I think take his licence away from him for good, community service for so many hours or whatever they call it.
I dont know how the guy feels but i have fallen asleep on the bike on the motorway, it was on way back from the AR, i blame Northwind and 21Quest for keeping me up talking till 4 in the morning right outside Pingbase lol. I dont really. But its not a nice feeling waking up and remembering where you are. I pulled straight over to the hardshoulder.
oops- corrected. :smt031
Seems pretty clear cut to me, he caused 4 deaths by driving when asleep- dangerously.
So why bother with a trial - why don't we simply put this bloke in prison now? Why listen to what he has to say?
G2D you really must stop this. Jumping to conclusions without knowing much about things, I mean. As I said on the prison thread, if you were accused of this, you would want a fair trial, you'd expect one. It isn't fair if jurors have preconceived ideas, aren't open minded, accept Crown evidence at face value, and jump to conclusions they're not entitled to reach. The article has nothing about the driver's side of things, what evidence was recovered from the tachograph, what was the physical condition of the vehicle, what did witnesses see - and so on.
Of course it may be that having heard this sort of evidence, the jury convicts.
But that is a far cry from making your mind up in advance.
I don't think prison is gonna solve it. .
So what?
It may not solve anything but he has taken away someone's life.
Prison will not bring those people back neither will a slap on the wrist & a don't do it again.
...but it may at least act as a deterrent if dirviers know that Dangerous Driving could mean a prison sentence.
...if a lorry driver knows the worst that could happen is a bit of community service, what's he gonna do?
plowsie
05-12-07, 09:44 AM
So what?
It may not solve anything but he has taken away someone's life.
Prison will not bring those people back neither will a slap on the wrist & a don't do it again.
...but it may at least act as a deterrent if dirviers know that Dangerous Driving could mean a prison sentence.
...if a lorry driver knows the worst that could happen is a bit of community service, what's he gonna do? I don't think he will go out on some kinda killing spree if thats what you were implying, his company wouldnt employ him if he had any convictions.
Thing is have you got any existing convictions against yourself???? Have you ever tried gettin a job???? Its hard believe me. Makes life a lot worse for you. So give the guy a bad name on his criminal record and he'd gonna start feeling it.
I understand what your point is Dirk but i just don't think he should go to prison. As said earlier before, some drivers have a lot stuck on them to complete jobs by their companies.
plowsie
05-12-07, 09:44 AM
And lets face it, i think an appeal would be raised, and his sentence would be cut shorter...
Flamin_Squirrel
05-12-07, 09:52 AM
A prison sentence won't bring them back to life; but will it serve as a reminder to the remaining lorry drivers?
Of course it won't. It's rare anyone goes out to intentionally cause an accident. Most of us have an 'it'll never happen to me' mentality, so if we're not considering the consiquence, we'll not be considering the punishment.
Jester666
05-12-07, 09:58 AM
This guy fell asleep at the wheel of his lorry and ploughed in to the back of a car killing 4 people. He made no effort to brake at all- he was flat out. He's only being tried with 4 counts of death by dangerous driving (which he pleads not-guilty) but should we make an example of him? A prison sentence won't bring them back to life; but will it serve as a reminder to the remaining lorry drivers?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/7127710.stm
Clear cut. Prison sentence without a doubt.
Wasn't there a lawyer recently who went the wrong way down a motorway & killed a biker....she then got let off for being a nice person or something.
You take away someone's life, you should face a prison sentence.
Agreed!
She was a doctor, pretty dodgy case that one! It was on the basis that it would serve no benefit to anyone to put her away in prison.
As in the other thread, She should have gone to prison.
As said earlier before, some drivers have a lot stuck on them to complete jobs by their companies.
He could have said no!
And lets face it, i think an appeal would be raised, and his sentence would be cut shorter...
And he'll probably be out in less than a year! Which is just wrong. 4 lives wasted, the familys (Whats left of it!) suffer for years and he's out again. Justice? I dont think so!
Pedro68
05-12-07, 10:00 AM
Hmmm, some people seem to be assuming that the driver fell asleep at the wheel. Not an unreasonable assumption I grant you, but ... the driver is denying that he fell asleep at the wheel, and is even denying "feeling tired". Believe it or not, there ARE other plausible explanations ... my dad (RIP) had a stroke whilst at the wheel of his HGV. He wasn't aware he'd had a stroke, just thought he'd pulled a muscle in his upper arm! He drove home and went to hospital to have it checked out ... whereupon he had his licence revoked for 3 months or until such time as he was given a "clean bill of health" ... luckily for him, and the other road users that day, he was able to retain control of his vehicle ... unlucky for him that he never got his licence back and a further massive stroke took him from us (about 4 years ago now).
What if this driver suffered from something similar that temporarily debilitated him?
If he's anything like my dad (who LOVED his job - driving wasn't just a job to him, it was his life, and having his licence revoked ripped his soul out - not a nice thing to see), then he may have been unwilling to admit to medical conditions that could prevent him doing something he loves (however stupid/wrong/illegal that may be).
I have not read much about this, yes he killed people by falling a sleep, he didnt do it intentionally.
Facts behind the scene might be that he has money troubles so needs to work as much as he can. Or he may be being forced to work long hours by his company due to short staff and fears the consequences if he doesnt as he needs his job. His bonus and pay might depend on getting somewhere by a certain time. In which case the company should be held accountable to some extent, corporate manslaughter.
Probably more to it than meets the eye as with everything.
Edit: should have read it to see that he said he didnt fall asleep, DOH.
He could have black out, which isnt unheard of, i know of someone who blacked out and had a MAJOR crash, he survived without any injuries somehow.
MiniMatt
05-12-07, 10:05 AM
I'm with Ed (again - frightening). I'd rather our courts weren't in the business of making examples but judge each case fairly and independently.
Besides, if we wanted to "make examples" it'd be far more effective to imprison everyone who knows they're a bit too tired to drive, who falls asleep momentarily and wakes up with a jolt a fraction of a second later, with no consequences. As this has doubtless happened to a lot of people, and if they don't learn that lesson.... The folks who fall asleep and kill a bus load of nuns - that ain't an example to anyone because we all think "that'll never happen to me".
I find it more worrying that they are spending so much time on this one case...
Where theres a LOT worse going on this country, and done on purpose, and the offenders will probably get a much more lenient sentence.....
YEah, like putting 1 person in prison is going to put the message out to other lorry drivers....
Just like young offenders, Asbos and such...... (kids TRY to get an asbo as its cool to have one) Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... SO much more going on...
Firstly, the people who have said he should not go to prison and just get told off etc, WTF, do you live on a different planet. How would you fel if you had just had 4 members of your family killed because some f**kwit decided to ignore the fact he was tired and carry on driving?? Me I would kill him with my bear hands, its not right but it would make me feel better. I firmly believe in an eye for an eye.
There is NO excuse for falling asleep, he will have a taco and will have to take forced stos to rest, additionally to that if you fel tired and start feeling like you are going to fall asleep you pull over , simple. So you can try and blame the Haulage companies for it but it was his personal decision to carry on driving absolutely chin strapped!!
And if I was the family I would be pushing for Manslaughter not DBDD!!! He killed four people but did not mean to do it with his actions, last time I checked that is manslaughter.
And yes after he has served his sentence he should be banned for life!!
YEah, like putting 1 person in prison is going to put the message out to other lorry drivers....
It doesnt a lad I know called Darren Cooper was jailed for 5 years for causing death by dangerous driving.
No one around here has changed the way they drive at all.
There is a story behind what happened. He is VERY rich and was 22 at the time, he drove a Porsche GT2.
There is 50 in the country 25 black 25 blue. Two of which lived in this town. One black One blue.
On the night of the accident a dark porsche raced a biker, the biker misjudged a corner panicked, bike lifted and he hit the armco and died.
One witness came forward and advised it was a porsche GT2. Both darren and a local nightclub boss were arrested 2 weeks after the accident. The local night club boss sold his Blue GT2 the weekend after the accident.
The first witness then refused to give evidence, along comes another witness claiming the porsche was blue and had a DAZ number plate, this witness turned out to be friends with the nightclub owner.
Plenty of reasonable doubt and evidence pointy towards a conspiracy led by the nightclub boss, but darren was jailed for 5 years, leaving 2 children and his wife, one of his children is severley disabled.
Jailing for death by dangerous driving does nothing other that to the person jailed, or at least you would hope.
So give the guy a bad name on his criminal record and he'd gonna start feeling it.
I don't care! I'm not going to feel sorry for him. His actions meant that he killed 4 people.
There is very little more serious than that....and very little excuse not to expect to go to prison.
If it was my family & he didn't go to prison I would have little recourse but to find him & do a little bit of Hannurabi's Law on him.
plowsie
05-12-07, 10:27 AM
Never thought about the blacking out side of things...
Flamin_Squirrel
05-12-07, 10:27 AM
I firmly believe in an eye for an eye.
That kind of rhetoric speaks of someone seeking revenge and has no place in the judicial process.
Before I get slated, i dont think he shouldnt go to jail.
I'm purely commenting on that him going to jail wont be setting an example, no one will care, and thing will continue on as normal.
...stuff....
What has that story got to do with this case?
No offence - I just don't see how it's relevent.
Pedro68
05-12-07, 10:34 AM
So, you're driving along and next thing you know you have a "blackout" and kill 4 people.
You later find out that you had a heart murmer that now requires you to wear a pacemaker (I'm not making this up - I have a friend who had this condition! Luckily it was discovered BEFORE he could cause an accident). Do you think you could accept a prison sentence?
The point is, if some medical condition which is not known to you at the time of your journey subsequently causes even so much as a single death on that journey, then just how culpable can you be??
Until ALL the facts come out in this case anybody passing judgement shouldn't EVER be asked to perform jury duty.
It is extremely unfortunate that an entire family was wiped out, but until we know the facts let's try and remain a little open-minded about it ;-)
What has that story got to do with this case?
No offence - I just don't see how it's relevent.
The blurb perhaps wasnt, but didnt want to mention the friends name/case and then let people assume he had done major wrong for getting 5 years.
The point of the post, was that he was jailed for a long sentence due to death by dangerous driving, to be made an example of.
It made absolutely no difference, therefore didnt work and is completely pointless for that sole purpose.
Making an example of, was the title of this thread, and the reason for the post.
That kind of rhetoric speaks of someone seeking revenge and has no place in the judicial process.
Indeed it doees but i can promise you f i had just had a member of my family killed by a dozy **** then they would be meeting their maker very soon!!
it is revenge but like i said it would make me feel better!!
He made no effort to brake at allhow could he brake, if he was asleep?
he was flat out. these are restricted to 56ish mph....... its not as if he was doing 120
this is an accident (unless its later proven he had been drinking or had been driving without breaks etc)
sending him to jail will not achive anything
but, he has killed 4 people, if it was my family he had killed, i would want revenge.
So, you're driving along and next thing you know you have a "blackout" and kill 4 people.
You later find out that you had a heart murmer that now requires you to wear a pacemaker
I doubr he just found out he had a heart murmur. They're not that hard to detect.
It's to do with the valves on the heart not closing properly...and such can be easily detected by a health care professional, during your routine, free health check.
drefraser
05-12-07, 10:50 AM
She was a doctor, pretty dodgy case that one! It was on the basis that it would serve no benefit to anyone to put her away in prison.
You mean us doctors can end up on trial if we kill people?
I need to change jobs!
Pedro68
05-12-07, 10:52 AM
I doubr he just found out he had a heart murmur. They're not that hard to detect.
It's to do with the valves on the heart not closing properly...and such can be easily detected by a health care professional, during your routine, free health check.
So you have a "routine, free health check" before EVERY journey you make?
I rest my case :D
In fact, my friends heart murmer was discovered when he suddenly blacked out and smacked his head on his desk ... however, he could have just as easily been at the wheel of his car (or a 40-ton truck) when this happened, and even though "they're not that hard to detect", it still took the medical profession several weeks of tests to discover the exact cause of his seemingly random black outs.
So you have a "routine, free health check" before EVERY journey you make?
.
I do when I change surgery!
Oh blimey. An orgy of bias, hypothesis, supposition and vengeance.
Do you all never learn. Before making your minds up, why don't you listen to the evidence??
May well be that he did fall asleep, may well be that it was dangerous. I don't know.
But FFS at least have the decency to this bloke to listen to the whole picture.
Just think if it was you accused of this, and everyone had made their minds up. How would you feel?
Flamin_Squirrel
05-12-07, 11:49 AM
Oh blimey. An orgy of bias, hypothesis, supposition and vengeance.
Do you all never learn. Before making your minds up, why don't you listen to the evidence??
May well be that he did fall asleep, may well be that it was dangerous. I don't know.
But FFS at least have the decency to this bloke to listen to the whole picture.
Just think if it was you accused of this, and everyone had made their minds up. How would you feel?
Depressing how stupid people can be isnt it :?
Despite some outrageous miscarages of justice (the Sally Cark case that you mentioned yesterday springs to mind) people still assume anyone charged with a crime is obviously guilty.
Appart from Sally Cark, who was obviously innocent :rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 12:19 PM
Seems pretty clear cut to me, he caused 4 deaths by driving when asleep- dangerously.
So why bother with a trial - why don't we simply put this bloke in prison now? Why listen to what he has to say?
G2D you really must stop this. Jumping to conclusions without knowing much about things, I mean. As I said on the prison thread, if you were accused of this, you would want a fair trial, you'd expect one. It isn't fair if jurors have preconceived ideas, aren't open minded, accept Crown evidence at face value, and jump to conclusions they're not entitled to reach. The article has nothing about the driver's side of things, what evidence was recovered from the tachograph, what was the physical condition of the vehicle, what did witnesses see - and so on.
Of course it may be that having heard this sort of evidence, the jury convicts.
But that is a far cry from making your mind up in advance.
Ed, the only conclusions being jumped upon here are entirely by yourself. If you notice I said 'seems'; i.e. to give the impression that the case was clear cut when perhaps it was not.
You should also notice I only asked questions regarding what others thought and didn't once express my own views as I too didn't think there was enough information.
I know you like to jump up in defence of everything and everyone but I think you should spend more time to consider that just because you have come to a conclusion in your head, it does not mean that it is right for all of us. We've got people from all walks of life and experience that are bound to have differing views, some perhaps erring on the side of the extreme. But all of these inputs is the only way that a balanced argument can be made.
This guy fell asleep at the wheel of his lorry and ploughed in to the back of a car killing 4 people. He made no effort to brake at all- he was flat out. He's only being tried with 4 counts of death by dangerous driving (which he pleads not-guilty) but should we make an example of him? A prison sentence won't bring them back to life; but will it serve as a reminder to the remaining lorry drivers?
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 12:22 PM
how could he brake, if he was asleep?
these are restricted to 56ish mph....... its not as if he was doing 120
this is an accident (unless its later proven he had been drinking or had been driving without breaks etc)
sending him to jail will not achive anything
but, he has killed 4 people, if it was my family he had killed, i would want revenge.
The evidence suggests he wasn't just sleepy, that he was fast asleep. The article continues to say that he would have been getting gradually more sleepy over time so should have pulled over; but instead continued and that is where the crime lay.
-bad choice of words from myself there. I meant flatout as in flat out asleep ;)
Pedro68
05-12-07, 12:33 PM
This guy fell asleep at the wheel of his lorry
That is a supposition being used by the prosecution based on the "most likely" cause - however at this stage we don't have the drivers side, and so this is the conclusion of the prosecution, the press, and yourself (and many others).
and ploughed in to the back of a car killing 4 people.
That's a fact, and that fact alone will no doubt have a big bearing on any sentence passed.
Seems pretty clear cut to me, he caused 4 deaths by driving when asleep- dangerously.
Similar to above ... IMO you ARE jumping to a conclusion G2D ;-)
The first part is factually correct. The second part is supposition again.
Of course the argument is a strong one at this point, but that's not to say it is the ONLY argument ;-)
Pedrosa
05-12-07, 12:36 PM
But what about the medication that he was prescribed by his physician' That did not give any information that it could cause sleep or drowsiness and that the driving of any vehicle should be avoided?:confused:
G2D, (what's your name BTW???) you'd make a good lawyer:D Arguing over the meaning of words is what I spend a lot of my time doing:rolleyes:
'Seems pretty clear cut to me' indicates to me that you have come to a conclusion, that you've made your mind up.
Of course I accept that everyone has their opinion and is entitled to think what they like. But when those opinions and thoughts impact directly on the liberty of an individual who potentially faces a lengthy jail sentence, and when those thoughts and opinions aren't based on a proper consideration of the evidence, then you have no business imposing them on the individual concerned.
On the face of it, this bloke's wagon hit several cars and killed the occupants of one of them.
But there could be good reasons for what happened, that we haven't heard yet.
I don't claim technical expertise. Far from it.
But what if this bloke produced evidence for example that the vehicle was defective, that he didn't know about it, and that the leak of noxious fumes/carbon monoxide caused him to fall asleep suddenly?
Isn't then the fault/blame actually with the mechanic? Or with the vehicle operator?
Mightn't be so clear cut after all.
And on the subject of peoples' opinions, if everyone thought the same, nothing would ever change, we'd still be in the bronze age. I like healthy debate:smt031
drefraser
05-12-07, 12:47 PM
But what about the medication that he was prescribed by his physician' That did not give any information that it could cause sleep or drowsiness and that the driving of any vehicle should be avoided?:confused:
Always printed on the label and usually included in the product information sheet inside.
Pedrosa
05-12-07, 12:53 PM
Ed, in fairness G2D and others are well within their rights to formulate an opinion based on the evidence presented thus far. Should further mitigating evidence be revealed then I feel sure that earlier condemnation could be reviewed. After all it would be nonsensical to retain a previous view if further information caste serious doubt on any earlier opinion, in fact people would be idiotic not to move on it. I do not think anyone who has passed comment on this subject is either an idiot or beyond reason.
After all is this not why the judicial system calls for a full summing up when all evidence has been presented by both the defence and prosecution? In the hope that a full and fair argument has been presented by both parties and that the key points are highlighted, before any passing of verdict or sentence.
Furthermore comments being passed on this forum are highly unlikely to directly impact upon anyone involved in the case in question.
Ed, in fairness G2D and others are well within their rights to formulate an opinion based on the evidence presented thus far. Should further mitigating evidence be revealed then I feel sure that earlier condemnation could be reviewed. After all it would be nonsensical to retain a previous view if further information caste serious doubt on any earlier opinion, in fact people would be idiotic not to move on it. I do not think anyone who has passed comment on this subject is either an idiot or beyond reason.
After all is this not why the judicial system calls for a full summing up when all evidence has been presented by both the defence and prosecution? In the hope that a full and fair argument has been presented by both parties and that the key points are highlighted, before any passing of verdict or sentence.
Furthermore comments being passed on this forum are highly unlikely to directly impact upon anyone involved in the case in question.
Peter - Yes. I accept what you say, it's fair comment. I shouldn't jump on people for expressing an opinion and I hope that G2D - and others - can see where I'm coming from. I don't mean to breach the Fifth Amendment:smt052
Pedrosa
05-12-07, 01:12 PM
Ed I understand you fully and think you were simply stressing that until the full details have been revealed no judgement should be made. However it is a natural reaction for people to knee jerk in response to provocative headlines.
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 01:22 PM
Peter - Yes. I accept what you say, it's fair comment. I shouldn't jump on people for expressing an opinion and I hope that G2D - and others - can see where I'm coming from. I don't mean to breach the Fifth Amendment:smt052
:thumright: Totally. I posted it as I was curious to see if there was a solution I hadn't thought of, or a dirver who could shed some light on their working conditions.
I don't believe locking him up will achieve anything whatsoever, and I imagine the remains of that family (if there is any- which really puts it in to perspective) would think that way too. When a small mistake can lead to such a catastrophic event the case should revolve around (IMO) the prevention of further incidents rather than dished out punishment.
Large trucks are really too big for our roads; mass murderers in the wrong hands and should be treated as such. Methods to alert the driver when he falls asleep is too little too late when the consequences are so severe, so where lies the answer? Technology in the form of radar cruise control? Stricter rules and regulation over driver conditions? Could we even take a leaf out the ozzies books and pump them full of amphetamines?! ;)
(Rob btw ;) you choose your username...and then you're stuck with it...bah!)
Arguing over the meaning of words is what I spend a lot of my time doing:rolleyes:
Me too. Fun isn't it?!
Pedro68
05-12-07, 01:32 PM
I don't believe locking him up will achieve anything whatsoever, and I imagine the remains of that family (if there is any- which really puts it in to perspective) would think that way too. When a small mistake can lead to such a catastrophic event the case should revolve around (IMO) the prevention of further incidents rather than dished out punishment.
With you on that one though ;-)
Flamin_Squirrel
05-12-07, 01:57 PM
Ed, in fairness G2D and others are well within their rights to formulate an opinion based on the evidence presented thus far. Should further mitigating evidence be revealed then I feel sure that earlier condemnation could be reviewed. After all it would be nonsensical to retain a previous view if further information caste serious doubt on any earlier opinion, in fact people would be idiotic not to move on it. I do not think anyone who has passed comment on this subject is either an idiot or beyond reason.
After all is this not why the judicial system calls for a full summing up when all evidence has been presented by both the defence and prosecution? In the hope that a full and fair argument has been presented by both parties and that the key points are highlighted, before any passing of verdict or sentence.
Furthermore comments being passed on this forum are highly unlikely to directly impact upon anyone involved in the case in question.
What's the value of an opinion formed about an event you know next to nothing about?
Pedro68
05-12-07, 01:59 PM
What's the value of an opinion formed about an event you know next to nothing about?
Ooooh I dunno ... about 2cents? $0.02? ;-)
gettin2dizzy
05-12-07, 02:01 PM
What's the value of an opinion formed about an event you know next to nothing about?
I think you earn good money working in the media ;)
Paris Hilton's speech about drunk elephants was awe inspiring :rolleyes:
Flamin_Squirrel
05-12-07, 02:04 PM
I think you earn good money working in the media ;)
Paris Hilton's speech about drunk elephants was awe inspiring :rolleyes:
:smt082
To be fair though, I think the media is often well aware of the facts in cases they report.
They just pick and choose which bits to cover.
northwind
05-12-07, 08:15 PM
I'll just say, making an example of people is fine until you're the example, then it's suddenly unfair.
drefraser
06-12-07, 01:00 AM
I've been moderated!
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into them.
I've been moderated!
probably because what you said was utter bullsh*t;)
Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into them.
Crucifixion's a doddle.
drefraser
06-12-07, 09:20 PM
probably because what you said was utter bullsh*t;)
Indubitably but I liked it :(
gettin2dizzy
06-12-07, 09:50 PM
I've only be warned twice :)
Driver said today that he didn't know what happened.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/7130986.stm
drefraser
06-12-07, 10:40 PM
One minute he was in a canoe and then seven years later he was being done for fraud ?
Pedrosa
07-12-07, 09:37 PM
And so our juggernaut driving gent has been found guilty on all 4 counts. What say you now the good SV peeps?
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