Smoking ban to end!??

[keithd]

Just read this!...good grief...


REUTERS-
Islington Council are reviewing their no smoking policy within their company vehicles. It has emerged that the level of employees taking time off sick has almost quadrupled since the introduction of the smoking ban in July this year. 60% of the reasons cited for absence have been through stiff necks. It is thought that workers are flouting the smoking ban within their vehicles and smoking but with a window left open in an attempt to prevent the vehicles smelling of smoke.

A spokesman for the controversial council said “if it means we have to review some areas of the no smoking ban and allow vehicles which carry only one or two of our workers to be smoking areas then we will. We have to look at whether we can continue to allow staff to take sick leave for such reasons as stiff necks and ear ache or whether we should allow smoking.”

It is believed that Islington is not the only council to be reviewing their policies regarding smoking. Lambeth and Liverpool have also expressed their concerns at increased levels of absenteeism

[Ping]

:lol: Awesome. :D

Stupid rule anyway.

[G]

What the **** that didnt make any sense.

You can smoke in a personal company car anyway, pool cars which are open to use by anyone and vans that can be appointed to anyone cant be smoked in.

They cant just review that, Its law.

If they have their own policy saying that people can not smoke in ANY company vehicle, then they are stupid anyway.

[Pedrosa]

That's the spirit! Back to the good old days hey?:p

[Warthog]

:lol: Awesome. :D

Stupid rule anyway.

What!? Noooooo, all my respect for you, gone in an instant. :(

[yorkie_chris]

Er why?

Have you died from passive smoking as a result of somebody lighting up in the same van as you?

[Ed]

I'm surprised that they're thinking of changing policy. Not only is it the law, it's for good health reasons.

The picture on this link is disgusting and is a very good reason not to change policy. Good reason not to smoke at all in fact. I haven't posted the pic as it is pretty revolting and it's up to you whether you click the link or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cancerous_lung.jpg

[metalmonkey]

The smoking ban is ace its the best thing that has happened I can now go out for a drink and not have a tight chest in the morning, smell like an ash try its just great!

[gettin2dizzy]

But how do you hurt your neck smoking out a car window?!

[Draper]

i do miss the novelty of going to the giffard, downing the beer and air guitaring whilst smoking on a big cigar... but i think the ban is a pretty good thing really, personally i am not too fussed by smoke, but it is understandable for people to say 'why should all your habbits take their toll on my health'

[yorkie_chris]

The thing that does it for me is if there was one pub in town with a big f### off sign saying "IF YOU COME IN HERE YOU WILL DIE OF CANCER" I'd be in there, because I like a smoke with a drink, and don't like hypothermia. As it is a few of the places I frequent shut a little earlier, as soon as the shutters come down the ashtrays come out. :D
You should have a choice in the matter, but a blanket ban is just daft.

[emcf]

But how do you hurt your neck smoking out a car window?!


errrmm....when you get hit by a filtering motorbike as it goes past?!:D

[Ed]

You should have a choice in the matter, but a blanket ban is just daft.

Not to the rest of us who have had to endure years of selfish smokers it isn't:D

[yorkie_chris]

I'm all for seperate spaces, that way everybodys happy

[the_lone_wolf]

I'm all for seperate spaces, that way everybodys happy
you've got your space

i'll be inside

;)

[yorkie_chris]

And I get hypothermia, hows that fair?

[the_lone_wolf]

And I get hypothermia, hows that fair?
ya big jessy, put ya coat on ;)

personally i'd be more worried about lung cancer :smt103

[Ed]

And I get hypothermia, hows that fair?

Quit the fags, then you don't need the apartheid. Did you click on the link, Chris? The white stuff's malignant cancer, the brown/black is tobacco tar:pukel:

[yorkie_chris]

Yup, smoking is a disgusting and stupid habit.

I still don't like that its illegal to smoke in an establishment where all the customers and staff smoke, they choose to smoke themselves so passive smoking is a moot point. Wheres the sense in that? Government preservation of the colour of the wallpaper?

[the_lone_wolf]

I still don't like that its illegal to smoke in an establishment where all the customers and staff smoke, they choose to smoke themselves so passive smoking is a moot point.
i've never seen a pub without some non-smokers, so your example is hardly the norm, if you all smoke and you all want to then go ahead, personally i wouldn't enforce the law in that situation, but what if someone wants to use the pub who isn't a smoker? surely it can't be quite so "local" that you know every person who ever uses it? some people don't enjoy the rancid taste, and having to wash the smell out of everything they wore the next day. regardless of any health benefits, it's an entirely unpleasant experience for me, which is enough to send you outside for a huddle in my book

:-({|=

[yorkie_chris]

If everybody in a place smokes and a that is a massive problem, then go elsewhere

[the_lone_wolf]

If everybody in a place smokes and a that is a massive problem, then go elsewhere
i would, but thankfully i don't have to any more, you do, usually out the back, crowded under a lean to with the bins, trying to get the damn lighter to catch, while the rain flies past sideways:smt043

it's warm in here \\:D/

[yorkie_chris]

I just go out later and catch last orders and a stoppy back, best of both

[the_lone_wolf]

just so long as i'm not there:smt023

[missyburd]

Yup, smoking is a disgusting and stupid habit.

that is very true :rolleyes: :p

I'm all for seperate spaces, that way everybodys happy

well i won't be, not much point in us ever going out if you gonna be stood outside the whole time :smt043

[Ed]

I really DON'T mean to be sanctimonious here, just genuinely interested.

But - I'm curious as to how smokers think about the health issues. I've never smoked (well apart from a few when I was 19 and thought it looked cool, and quickly realised that it doesn't and that the taste is even worse).

So - what do you think about this? Don't care? Think 'I'll think about it if it happens'? Or 'you gotta die of something'?

:confused:

[yorkie_chris]

Not really sure, somewhere in between, its not like I go through 2 packs a day either, more like 4 or 5 rollies a day. I was born, at some point I'll die, preferably quickly. One of my great uncles lived untill he was 94, rode a norton and smoked a pipe. A friend of mine played rugby, never smoked and died at 39. So I put it down to fate, whenever its my day, ta ra.

[Draper]

yeah but you're not smoking a pipe... theres the key important fact

cigarettes can be thought of as cool by young impressionable types, however pipes are cool full stop

the sign of a true refined gentleman, all you would need is the crossword to do whilst puffing on the pipe and sipping the ale

[Draper]

i'd be happy to frequent a pipe smoking bar :)

maybe grow a gandalf beard aswell... i worry about myself

[yorkie_chris]

Ahhh but some would argue that pipe smoking causes cancer of the mouth and tongue.

Its yet another nanny state thing, helmet laws, seatbelt laws, warning signs on everything, all these things aimed at protecting you from yourself. IMO if you want to be a daft f###er and kill yourself its your business, nowt to do with any pen pushing types in the civil service.

[Draper]

that is true, as with cigars, but we all know they are cool

i can understand smokers being ****ed off with it, but perhaps some of the ones that are wanting to give it up, perhaps this has given some benefit? certainly makes them think twice before having to go outside in the rain just to inhale cockroach pesticide, jet fuel, cyanide and the other foul hundreds of ingredients in tobacco

perhaps if tobacco was just tobacco... perhaps in that sense cigars would be healthier?

[yorkie_chris]

just to inhale jet fuel,

Much prefered 4-star

[keithd]

can i just add the following.....

[keithd]

i made the story up.

i fibbed.

i was bored.

[svpilot]

I really DON'T mean to be sanctimonious here, just genuinely interested.

But - I'm curious as to how smokers think about the health issues. I've never smoked (well apart from a few when I was 19 and thought it looked cool, and quickly realised that it doesn't and that the taste is even worse).

So - what do you think about this? Don't care? Think 'I'll think about it if it happens'? Or 'you gotta die of something'?

:confused:

For the record I don't smoke, and I am not a fan (eg. many smokers I see have a different attitude toward littering than non smokers IMO) But most of the arguments I see against smokers are the same as those used against bikers. Dangerous/Bad for you Noisey/smelly antisocial etc. etc.

In the same way that seeing photos of horrific motorcycle accidents hasn't put me off motorbikes, I would imagine it is the same for many smokers.

[gettin2dizzy]

Business take whatever steps needed to maximise their profit. If turning your pub non-smoking would be such a popular decision most pubs would have been non smoking long before the ban came in to action, and reaping the rewards of it. I don't recall a single non-smoking pub in Newcastle, and only one in Manchester before the ban!

I'm a non-smoker but to be honest- I never went to the pub for my health. I love now having to walk in to every buildings entrance now in a huge dense cloud of smoke. Lovely Jubbly. I quite enjoy them being smoke free now, but think the decision should be left to the owners

[Ping]

Business take whatever steps needed to maximise their profit. If turning your pub non-smoking would be such a popular decision most pubs would have been non smoking long before the ban came in to action, and reaping the rewards of it. I don't recall a single non-smoking pub in Newcastle, and only one in Manchester before the ban!

I'm a non-smoker but to be honest- I never went to the pub for my health. I love now having to walk in to every buildings entrance now in a huge dense cloud of smoke. Lovely Jubbly. I quite enjoy them being smoke free now, but think the decision should be left to the owners
:thumbsup:

As a non-smoker I like not stinking of smoke when I leave the pub, but I would NEVER say the ban was a good thing.

Oh... I also feel the need point out that the amount of smugness from the pro-ban members in this thread stinks worse than the smoke ever did. :p

[yorkie_chris]

Oh... I also feel the need point out that the amount of smugness from the pro-ban members in this thread stinks worse than the smoke ever did. :p

Lol indeed

[G]

Its yet another nanny state thing, helmet laws, seatbelt laws. IMO if you want to be a daft f###er and kill yourself its your business........

Thats abit of a silly thing to say.

So you have an accident in a car at 30mph and brake your neck after hitting your head on the windscreen. Some poor ambulance person has to turn up and sort out your broken neck which could have just been a slightly sore neck or nothing at all. You then cost the NHS rediculous amounts of money to fix you up, you then have to be in a wheel chair the rest of you life potentially paralysed and unable to work, and therefore on disability and incapacity benefits costing the country an absolute fortune and aswell as being completely useless.

Same goes for falling off your bike at even 15mph, you hit your head hard and are left with severe brain damage or completely brain dead. **insert the rest of the above here**

To say that we live in a nany state because we have very beneficial rules like you have to wear a helmet or a seatbelt is completely rediculous :confused::confused::confused:

[MiniMatt]

I really DON'T mean to be sanctimonious here, just genuinely interested.

But - I'm curious as to how smokers think about the health issues. I've never smoked (well apart from a few when I was 19 and thought it looked cool, and quickly realised that it doesn't and that the taste is even worse).

So - what do you think about this? Don't care? Think 'I'll think about it if it happens'? Or 'you gotta die of something'?

:confused:

Allow me to quote Mr Dennis Leary...

"There's a guy, he's English -I don't know if we should hold that against him- but apparently this is his life's dream 'cause he's going country to country, he has a Senate hearing coming up in the next few weeks, and this is what he wants to do: He wants to make the warnings on the packs bigger! Yeah, he wants the whole front of the pack to be one big warning like the problem is that we just haven't noticed yet.

Like he's gonna get his way and all of a sudden smokers around the world will be like, 'Yeah Bill, I've got some cigarettes -HOLY . .. .. .. .! These things are bad for you? I thought they were good for you. I thought they vitamin C in them and stuff.'

You dolt, it doesn't matter how big the warning are. You could have cigarettes that were called warnings. You could have cigarettes that came in a black pack, with a skull and crossbones in the front, and called TUMORS, and smokers would be lining up around the block, going 'I can't wait to get my hands on these things.'"

EDIT: Oh, and you're wrong, smoking IS cool. James Dean, Steve McQueen, John Wayne. "Cancer is just God's way of telling you you're too damn sexy for your own good...."

[phil24_7]

I think a fair option would be for all pubs etc to have a designated smoking area (no more than 25% of the pub and possibly even closed off from the rest of the pub) with it's own air-con unit to filter out the smoke from the pub. Regular inspections to make sure the air-con is working corrctly and absolutely no smoking outside of this area. This would allow everybody to have the night out that they want with none of the nasty side affects and would've cost no more that all the cannopy's and heaters!

Non smokers are still not happy as now everyone smokes outside thay can't use beer gardens as everybody is out there smoking, there's no pleasing some people, they've ruined smokers pub visits and they're still complaining!!!

Right, I'm of out to smoke in my car before the new law about no smoking in my car comes in next year! Roll on the road rage!!!!

[Tris]

Strangley the smoking paranoia only appears to be here in the UK. Not a problem across the rest of Europe.

Is that because their governments assume that the majority of the population are adults and capable of making their own decision

PS
I'm not a smoker but believe that adults have the right to make their own decisions

[the_lone_wolf]

PS
I'm not a smoker but believe that adults have the right to make their own decisions
You've missed the point entirely...

While it would no doubt benefit people to stop smoking, they won't, and it is their right to do that if they want, but just because they have the right to inhale cigarette smoke, does that remove the rights of the people who don't want to?

Aside from revenue from taxation, which will be offset to some extent by increased cost of treating their cancers and chronic lung problems, what benefits does smoking give society? just because it's a legal drug doesn't mean that it's any less of a drug addiction

[keithd]

:lol:

for a minute i thought nobody could read my confession...!! :D:D:D

[gettin2dizzy]

You've missed the point entirely...

While it would no doubt benefit people to stop smoking, they won't, and it is their right to do that if they want, but just because they have the right to inhale cigarette smoke, does that remove the rights of the people who don't want to?

Aside from revenue from taxation, which will be offset to some extent by increased cost of treating their cancers and chronic lung problems, what benefits does smoking give society? just because it's a legal drug doesn't mean that it's any less of a drug addiction


they die well before their years of expensive elderly care. bonus.

[the_lone_wolf]

they die well before their years of expensive elderly care.
touché

:p

[MiniMatt]

They also die well before they've claimed decade after decade of state pension. And corporate pension for that matter. Your creaking works pension fund may just hold out if enough people die early.

Besides, every revenue/cost calculation I've seen from the anti-smoking lobby groups always makes one fundamental flaw - they assume that if smoking is erradicated and would-be smokers now don't get lung cancer they are now IMMORTAL and won't die or require treatment for anything.

In reality, all your smokers, currently dying in their 50s/60s/70s of lung cancer and heart disease are now dying in their 70s/80s/90s of liver and kidney failure, the last 20 years complicated by Altzheimers and Parkinsons. Which costs more to treat? What's more of a drain on society?

[Tris]

what benefits does smoking give society? just because it's a legal drug doesn't mean that it's any less of a drug addiction

If you follow that argument to its logical conclusion, the next has to do what many of us (the majority?) on this site do.

Ride motorcyles for the pure pleasure of doing so.

What posible benifit does a weekend warrior bring to society.

[the_lone_wolf]

If you follow that argument to its logical conclusion, the next has to do what many of us (the majority?) on this site do.

Ride motorcyles for the pure pleasure of doing so.

What posible benifit does a weekend warrior bring to society.
did you even read my reply? perhaps if i make it bold you'll see the point: i never said people shouldn't be allowed to smoke, i even said they have every right to, in the same way that people have every right to use their bikes for pleasure, it's all about how much your actions inconvenience other people - bikes might annoy a few people a bit as they zip by, cigarette smoke might give a few people cancer

as for weekend warriors - they pay huge taxes on their fuel, and boost the economy by making the purchases in the first place, smokers pay taxes but do little as consumers otherwise, i doubt the ashtray industry is as large as the motorcycle industry - i dare anyone to find a smoker who spends the same amount on fags as the weekend warrior does on his GSXR, lurid leather suits and tinted visors

now following your "logic;" huge numbers of people use bikes a functional means of transport, they reduce congestion and are certainly better at negotiating traffic - how would you enforce a ban on people using their bikes for pleasure? endorphin monitors on all bikes? some sort of thought police?;)

[yorkie_chris]

i dare anyone to find a smoker who spends the same amount on fags as the weekend warrior does on his GSXR, lurid leather suits and tinted visors

60 a day, £15 a day = over £5k a year
Can get a lot of bike for that sort of money.

Another one into the mix, how well proven is it about passive smoke causing cancer? IMO something like a clean air rule for pubs demanding extractor fans would have most of the benefits and keep everyone happy (except for the hardcore health nazis, but who cares about them)
A pub I used to work in spend about 5k on ventilation, you had to be right next to a smoker to actually get a whiff of it. If anybody says you're at risk due to passive smoking somewhere like that they're talking bull.

[chakraist]

Man, I miss smoking in a pub so much.

And I don't really care if people don't want to breathe in my smoke, they should expect it coming to a pub. Most pubs last year had smoking areas anyways, so the non-smokers could always avoid them.

[yorkie_chris]

They'll be saying "omg we had to go home smelling of BEER the other night ... ban that!"

[the_lone_wolf]

They'll be saying "omg we had to go home smelling of BEER the other night ... ban that!"
or perhaps, considering that normal intake of alcohol has no adverse health effects and is even a benefit in some cases, i doubt that's a particularly likely scenario is it?

now if i took a mouthful of bitter every couple of minutes, swilled it around a bit and spat it in your face, all night, you'd have a better analogy to smoking, and you'd rightly be getting a bit ****ed off by last orders...;)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

They'll be saying "omg we had to go home smelling of BEER the other night ... ban that!"

Indeed. Self righteous gits. I'm utterly amazed that anyone can claim they want smokers out of the pubs for health reasons, while they sit around pickling their liver.

[Ping]

for a minute i thought nobody could read my confession...!! :D:D:D

Me, me, me!!! Dude, this isn't about YOU anymore... =;


:lol: ;)

[yorkie_chris]

now if i took a mouthful of bitter every couple of minutes, swilled it around a bit and spat it in your face, all night, you'd have a better analogy to smoking, and you'd rightly be getting a bit ****ed off by last orders...;)

That would more than likely result in an altercation yes.

However if somebody with me was averse to smoke, then I would wander away to smoke or sit further away. Seemed like common courtesy to me at the time.
I think chakraist hit the nail on the head, pubs should be smoky, have always been like that and if it was such a massive problem then go elsewhere. like to a family type resteraunt which were usually no smoking pre-ban anyway.

[keithd]

Me, me, me!!! Dude, this isn't about YOU anymore... =;


:lol: ;)

:smt022 should i move on? :smt022

[chakraist]

Aside from revenue from taxation, which will be offset to some extent by increased cost of treating their cancers and chronic lung problems, what benefits does smoking give society?

Okay, this made me smile, because the answer is in the question. About £4 from every £5 pack (of course, it's hard to get a decent pack of smokes for a fiver anymore). Approximately 70 billion cigarettes were smoked last year, with an additional 11000 tonnes of rolling tobacco. About 60 billion of those cigarettes had duty paid, about 3500 tonnes of the baccy. So.

60 divided by 20 is 3. 3 billion, multiplied by £4, is £12 billion in tax. 3500 tonnes divided by 50 grams is 70 million. That's 70 million packets of 50 gram tobacco sold, of which £8 of the £10 from the price equates as tax. £8, multiplied by 70 million is £560 million.


Oh yes, www.statistics.gov.uk for population figures, more government sites for smoking figures.
I've gone to the side of caution for this because I don't particularly want my head bitten off, but it does seem that £12.56 billion is more than enough to pay for each individual smoker.

Let's check!

About 46% of the male UK population smokes, and about 26% of the female. That works out as about 21 million smokers. If we say that 10% of those smokers every year get cancer which is a ridiculous figure, that's 2.1 million cancerous people.

This works out as each of them getting £6000 for treatment. This does not happen. The tax that smokers put in to the UK far outweighs the benefits they receive from that money. Therefore, I think it's safe to say that smoking benefits society, and it would be nice to get some payback- be able to smoke inside a nice warm pub.

[MiniMatt]

Another argument point - Why do YOU feel that you have the right to ride your motorbike past MY house, polluting MY lungs? Oh, yes, I could just, move away from you and your motorbike, or perhaps I could install air filters in my house. But no, I want you to stop your dirty polluting motorbike habit and stop polluting the air I breathe that study after study has PROVEN to be directly damaging my health.

And don't get me started on the damage you're doing to my hearing with that exhaust...

I'm reminded of the story of the guy who jogged to work every day, got lung cancer. Doctor asked "how many do you smoke?", "None, he replied, and I jog four miles every day", "Alongside the main road?", "Yep...." Whose fault is that? Who can we blame, who can we demonise?

[the_lone_wolf]

...something about motorbike jogging...
so you moved to a house next to a busy road and complain about the traffic?:confused::p

@chakraist - interesting numbers, i don't doubt them, but it's still unpleasant to sit near someone puffing away;)

@yorkie chris - you would "wander away to smoke or sit further away. Seemed like common courtesy to me" - indeed it does, why not extend that courtesy to the other people in the bar?:rolleyes:

[Ed]

chakraist - I don't believe that 46% of males in the United Kingdom are smokers. Where did you get the figs from? And also even if they were, you have assumed a uniform rate of consumption... I think your claimed financial contribution is way too high.

However there is, in fairness, another aspect to this. Don't forget the corporation tax paid by tobacco companies. Some won't pay much here because they're UK based - eg Philip Morris - but British American most certainly pays large sums, no idea how much.

Whilst I don't like smoking, ironically I benefited from it. My FIL had a lot of shares in British American, and some years ago they did a rights issue, and so he got a pile of free or cheap shares. Which he then sold and gave Mrs Ed the money for the deposit for our first flat.

[yorkie_chris]

@chakraist - interesting numbers, i don't doubt them, but it's still unpleasant to sit near someone puffing away;)

Not as unpleasant as being stood outside in freezing rain

[the_lone_wolf]

Not as unpleasant as being stood outside in freezing rain
it's not unpleasant at all to see you standing out in the freezing rain:kiss:

[yorkie_chris]

it's not unpleasant at all to see you standing out in the freezing rain:kiss:

FU :smt098

This is why I stick to the "stoppy back" theory of drinking in pubs :p

[Draper]

mr mini matt, i think getting parkinsons disease is just one of those things that happens, it cant be stopped (dispite ever increasing research into all the neurotransmitters and all that stuff). i think that is unfair to bring up that point which devastates so many peoples lives (i.e. family) when this is about something that can be prevented

[Draper]

it seems that this thread is getting a tad out of hand in general, talk of a bike passing a house, polluting there little ecosystem

bit of a difference to a small room full of people half of whom are filling the are with crap, and lets be fair smoking sections never really did anything anyway, funny thing diffusion.

i'm not particularly against smoking, but i think if you look at it from a neutral perspective, it is perhaps fair to allow people to not choke on floating fag particles

[missyburd]

I don't have a problem with the ban, as a non smoker am quite happy to sit in a pub thats smoke-free and i think people should be able to sit and have a drink and not have to reek of fags when they go home. tis all very well saying 'go somewhere else' but at the end of the day it takes what, 5 minutes? to go outside and have a smoke then pop back in, don't think tis that much to ask really :rolleyes:

I don't think it's fair to ask smokers to stand outside in the cold though, either a shelter outside or a seperate well ventilated room might do the trick especially in these cold cold winters we are going to be in for brrr

[northwind]

The big drawback of the ban that I've found is that if you go and see a band, at the end of the show there's no smell of smoke to mask the stench of sweaty gig-goer. It's pretty horrendous sometimes :smt103

[Essex of Essex]

Never smoked but I saw the damage it did to my Gran.

My workplace has been smoke free for a number of years and I like the fact that pubs are now, but I feel that smokers should have somewhere to indulge themselves that offers more shelter than a large umbrella in the beer garden.

The cabin crew at Finair in Helsinki had a cubicle with extractor fans in it in the middle of the briefing room, the smoke got so thick you couldn't see through from one side to the other and the walls were glass:shock:

[MiniMatt]

Ok, the motorbike analagy was just that - an analagy. I do ride a motorbike you know :D It's got a rather loud exhaust too. I'm just aware that in doing so I'm making walker, cyclists and joggers passive smog smokers, whether they like it or not. Passive vehichle emmision inhalation has just a big a (if not more so) proven link to poor health as passive cigarrette inhalation.

And bringing Parkinson's into it, yes I definitely feel justified, and I like many millions of others do indeed know just how devastating it is to families. The topic has swung to health, and I was pointing out how every statistic that claims smoking costs the NHS X ammount each year implies that if we were to erradicate smokers then these costs would dissapear, that would-be smokers are now immortal. The reality of course is that they still die of something, and still require care, only as they're living longer they no longer rapidly die of smoking induced organ damage but pick up degenerative nerve damage problems along the way. The total time spent in a moderate to high dependent state is potentially as long if not longer as a smoking related death. Smoking and death, are by their nature morbid topics and I can't really apologise for pointing that out.

[chakraist]

I got my consumption figures from an editorial somewhere, and my percentages from a government site. I have no idea where now. If I find them again, I'll post the pages

[wheelnut]

I'm surprised that they're thinking of changing policy. Not only is it the law, it's for good health reasons.

The picture on this link is disgusting and is a very good reason not to change policy. Good reason not to smoke at all in fact. I haven't posted the pic as it is pretty revolting and it's up to you whether you click the link or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cancerous_lung.jpg

But the smoking ban has driven the smokers outside and most will now die from bronchitis or hypothermia anyway

[G]

But the smoking ban has driven the smokers outside and most will now die from bronchitis or hypothermia anyway

The smokers were going to die anyway, the law was never intended to protect them or stop them smoking.

It was intended to protect the people who like to go to public places like the pub but dont smoke, and also the workers of such establishments.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

it seems that this thread is getting a tad out of hand in general, talk of a bike passing a house, polluting there little ecosystem

bit of a difference to a small room full of people half of whom are filling the are with crap, and lets be fair smoking sections never really did anything anyway, funny thing diffusion.

i'm not particularly against smoking, but i think if you look at it from a neutral perspective, it is perhaps fair to allow people to not choke on floating fag particles

That isn't a neutral perspective, MiniMats was though.

The point I believe he was trying to make is that for every individual thing that someone does, if you look hard enough, you'll find someone who is annoyed by it and would like to see you banned from doing it. Be it smoking, riding a motorbike, how you dress, what name you give to a teddy bear...

Coming up with 'moral' reasons makes no difference. The fact is if you can't tolerate other people, why should other people tolerate you.

[Maudster]

I smoke, not at home, not at work but I do like a ciggie down the pub with a nice beer. But I do agree with the smoking ban. I like my pub, I like meeting up with the people that like my pub too but I have kids and up until recently I wouldnt dare take them to the pub with me in the winter because of the smoke. So the ban works for me. I can put up with a few minutes in the cold to have a few puffs. I actually feel sorry for the ones that dont smoke because the majority in the pub all dissapear outside for a ciggie and leave the lone smokers wondering what to do with themselves for 5 mins. And in some cases they even end up joining us so not to miss out!

[Draper]

well perhaps it wasn't a neutral perspective,

personally i'm not too fussed about pubs and the like having smokers in or not, i used to smoke now and again and alot of my friends and family smoke. My thoughts are though, that perhaps for the public in general it is a benefit, for the nonsmokers

infact i'd go as far as to say that if it was aibit of a oldschool pub, all ales and smokey air, it was pretty cool - i just think it will be beneficial to many people