Who has a degree and doesn't use for their job?

[metalmonkey]

How many people have done this? For my job I don't need a degree but I have it any way, I have several friends who don't use their degree either! The only downside is repaying my student loan, doh!

So who else is the same?

[600+]

I did my BSc in Maths, Stats and Operational Reseach and my Masters in Applied Mathematics

Do I use it in my job? LOL BIG NOOOOOOOO

[gettin2dizzy]

Got a degree in Aerospace Engineering. (doing a placement year, but I've only got about 3-4months left to get my masters) but no way in hell do I want to be an engineer. It's not worth being one at all. I'd rather work behind a bar

[the_lone_wolf]

dizzy, why do you not want to be an engineer? they're like scientists with social skills...

little known fact of the day - the_lone_wolf BSc has a degree in physics, but realised in his last year he should have done marine engineering, i now work as a civil engineer and enjoy it, but highly doubt it'll be what i'm doing when i retire ;)

[gettin2dizzy]

dizzy, why do you not want to be an engineer? they're like scientists with social skills...

little known fact of the day - the_lone_wolf BSc has a degree in physics, but realised in his last year he should have done marine engineering, i now work as a civil engineer and enjoy it, but highly doubt it'll be what i'm doing when i retire ;)
There's no ladder, where you start you just sit for the rest of your life. Little ****s with management degrees become your boss as there's no benefit in companies promoting people with technical knowledge, they need it somewhere it can be applied. Civil & chemical engineering seems different though.

(I'm just being a miserable git too atm) ;)

[the_lone_wolf]

(I'm just being a miserable git too atm) ;)
you hide it so well:)

[gettin2dizzy]

Hehe. Well I do try ;)

[Pedrosa]

I use my 3 degrees at full blast when mincing around with my hoover? Does that count?:)

[timwilky]

Mine is Mech Eng. Got out of it and into IT back in 83.

Engineers in this country are treated poorly. Joe Public thinks Engineers are the guys who fix their bust washing machines.

We had one director stupidly talking about my departments salary bill say "We are an engineering company, we pay engineering rates". To which I said you are attempting to use IT to achieve business advantage, For that you need to employ and pay for IT specialists with Engineering knowhow" That costs even more than straight IT types.

As an IT dept, we employed mechanical, electrical chemical engineers, reactor control specialists, mathematicians and physicists. Although we did have one guy with a degree in fine art

[gettin2dizzy]

Mine is Mech Eng. Got out of it and into IT back in 83.

Engineers in this country are treated poorly. Joe Public thinks Engineers are the guys who fix their bust washing machines.

We had one director stupidly talking about my departments salary bill say "We are an engineering company, we pay engineering rates". To which I said you are attempting to use IT to achieve business advantage, For that you need to employ and pay for IT specialists with Engineering knowhow" That costs even more than straight IT types.

As an IT dept, we employed mechanical, electrical chemical engineers, reactor control specialists, mathematicians and physicists. Although we did have one guy with a degree in fine art
Mines aerospace, so pretty much identical to mech eng.

I know someone who is doing as well as he could. Started at 22 as a MEng engineer earning 25k with a massive company (you will know them), now he's the manager of perhaps 200 people with a turnover in the multi millions and he's on 28k....after 8 years. That's why I don't like engineering. It's not about the money, it's about them not taking the ****.

[northwind]

Me, to be honest I might as well have not bothered for all the difference it's made in my work, but I did have a top 3 years (and one less good one) on the way to my MA. Which is in Business Organisation, though it might as well be in Macrame.

[ASM-Forever]

. Little ****s with management degrees become your boss

LMAO....not bitter at all.

From the perspective of someone who is in his final year of a management degree....i wouldn't want to work with/under the vast majority of the people on my course. :smt031

[Samnooshka]

i have a BSc Geology degree, used it in my job for nearly a year but not using it anymore.

[gettin2dizzy]

Sweeping generalisations aren't offensive from me though ;) I'm sure there's plenty of management students who are suited to the role, but experience is absolutely invaluable. Studying without anything to relate it to is absolutely pointless; I think Uni should come a few years after work when you have the thirst for knowledge and the drive to want to change your working life.

[ASM-Forever]

Sweeping generalisations aren't offensive from me though ;) I'm sure there's plenty of management students who are suited to the role, but experience is absolutely invaluable. Studying without anything to relate it to is absolutely pointless; I think Uni should come a few years after work when you have the thirst for knowledge and the drive to want to change your working life.

No i think you were right the first time, the majority of my 'peers' should be working in McDonalds. :cool:

[JediGoat]

BSc Biological Science

Not especially useful seeing as I spent 9 years working in software development and now I own a shop :confused:

Did my dissertation on "The effect of Zinc of the growth of Vicia faba as determined by the mitotic index of root meristems"

In English, that is does zinc poison broad beans? Mind you, it's been so long ago, can't remember how to spell it mitotic (mytotic?).

My mother is endlessly amazed (bemused?) by how I can spend 3 years studying plant biology and kill all houseplants within a week of owning them. My defence is that I majored in toxicology :D

Jo

[Well Oiled]

My degree in gynaecology isn't useful for my job, but I like to practice it, just to keep my hand in .........

Did my BSc in Engineering and Masters in project management, used them lots over the years and still do. My role is reasonably well paid and I enjoy my job. There are good Engineering careers to be had, especially now there's such a shortage of well qualified and skilled people.

Depsite my efforts people still stick a paper on the copier saying "Faulty, Engineer called out". Don't know how many times I have to overwrite 'Engineer' with 'repairer' in big red marker pen before the penny drops.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Mines aerospace, so pretty much identical to mech eng.

I know someone who is doing as well as he could. Started at 22 as a MEng engineer earning 25k with a massive company (you will know them), now he's the manager of perhaps 200 people with a turnover in the multi millions and he's on 28k....after 8 years. That's why I don't like engineering. It's not about the money, it's about them not taking the ****.

I have BEng in mechanical engineering, and work in building services.

If you want to remain in a technical capacity it seems there is a cap on earnings, even at the top level. I wouldn't call it low, but certainly not high compared to other professions. You can earn more, but that involves being dragged into a managerial role. Doesn't seem right when the whole job rests on the technical work.

Still, the good news is, with more and more people leaving uni without being able to tie their own shoe laces, anyone with technical ability will be quids in in a few years time. At least, that's what I'm hopping! It's already becoming apparent there aren't enough engineers to fill jobs.

[MeridiaNx]

BA English Literature currently helps me build brick walls and do plastering with immense wit, flair and sensitivity ;)

Only just grraduated though and just working to fund travel so who knows if it'll ever come in useful. I imagine the fact that I have one at all, for ticking boxes reasons, will be of more importance than what it's in.

[ooger]

How many people have done this? For my job I don't need a degree but I have it any way, I have several friends who don't use their degree either! The only downside is repaying my student loan, doh!

So who else is the same?

I have a BSc in Computer Science and I'm a software developer.

I'm such a let down to this thread.

Coat please.:rolleyes:

[Ed]

I really don't mean this unkindly. But, as an employer - aw peeps, get real.

Someone mentioned £28K... How long do you think it takes me to earn £28K in fees? There's a tendency to think 'I'm a graduate, the world owes me a living'... well truth is, it's damn cold outside:( What are you really worth? Does the job need a graduate with little if any experience, as opposed to someone who's worked their ass off for 3 years in a workplace? I get lots of letters from people looking for training contracts, or first jobs after qualifying (3 years degree, one year postgrad, 2 years training contract) and they are looking for that sort of money... er, sorry, this is Shropshire, not London or New York...

[MeridiaNx]

Someone mentioned £28K... How long do you think it takes me to earn £28K in fees? There's a tendency to think 'I'm a graduate, the world owes me a living'... well truth is, it's damn cold outside:(

Fair point in general Ed, but when you say 'How long do you thing it takes me to earn £28k in fees?', is the rhetorical question implying that it takes you, an established professional, a long time and therefore what hope would a new graduate have? Or that it's dead easy for you and it'd only be a matter of a few weeks?

Incidentally though, Accenture, if you happened to want to work for that sort of company (and got in of course) is £28.5k starting salary for a graduate, with a £10k lump sum after a certain period...6 months or so I believe. Depends what floats your boat I suppose.

[Ed]

Fair point in general Ed, but when you say 'How long do you thing it takes me to earn £28k in fees?', is the rhetorical question implying that it takes you, an established professional, a long time and therefore what hope would a new graduate have? Or that it's dead easy for you and it'd only be a matter of a few weeks?

Answer is - a long time. There's a lot of competition around here so I can't charge what I think is the true time cost. I can't afford to pay £28K - plus the NI (about £3,000) the practising certificate (£1,300), the additional professional indemnity insurance (anything up to £2,000), 16 hours of courses (£350 for 6 hours usually, plus travelling cost) and the bonus expectations. Consider - the average conveyancing job I do is about £400 + VAT. I'm not complaining - it's simply reality. Instead I have a trainee legal exec, she's worked her way up, can work unsupervised, and does a terrific job, for way less:D And she's hot hot hot!!!:p:p:p

[Luckypants]

I have a BSc in Computer Science and I'm a software developer.

I'm such a let down to this thread.

Coat please.:rolleyes:

+1 Got my BSc in Computer Science in '84 and went straight into Systems Programming, been doing that **** in one form or another for past 23 years..... Even used to refer to my college notes in first five years.

My daughter is doing an undergrad MSc in Software Engineering and has decided she has no wish to work in software, so won't use her degree (technically)

My lad decided it wasn't worth the debt, given his salary expectation in future with the degree he fancied, so never took his place at uni.

Guess it's different now.

[Ed]

My lad decided it wasn't worth the debt, given his salary expectation in future with the degree he fancied, so never took his place at uni.

Guess it's different now.

Mike - he's very sensible. I hope that Sophie won't want to go to uni either, not because I don't want to pay, but because I think the spend would be far better invested in buying her a business or setting her up in a new one once she has enough experience to manage it.

[tigersaw]

I did a tech Dip in airospace studies and an HND with electronic engineering. Dont know what that translates to in modern day university speak.

[timwilky]

My employers shut down their UK engineering capability to centralise it in France and Switzerland. We were the last organisation doing turnkey power plant in the UK and had experteese in coal, combine cycle, hydro and nuclear plants.

Suddenly we win a couple of contract for new UK plants and have to import the engineers because we haven't got any experieinced power plant engineers in the UK. I wonder why.

As for salaries. I am 47 yrs old and been working since I started my apprenticeship age 16. I was once technically at the height of my profession, Alas I have not been able to keep my technical skills upto date. However, I have a good income etc. Somewhat annoying to think my daughter should exceed my salary within 2-3 years simply because she chose the bar over engineering, IT, accountancy etc.

My twin bro has always been critical of taking time out to learn instead of on the job. his view is you clock up a load of debt instead of earning and at the end of it you starting salary will be lower than someone with 3 years plus on the job knowledge etc. He cannot see the longer picture and potential for career progression. but in that short term, taking time out to do a degree is not necessarily a wise move

[Ed]

I am 47 yrs old and been working since I started my apprenticeship age 16. I was once technically at the height of my profession, Alas I have not been able to keep my technical skills upto date. However, I have a good income etc. Somewhat annoying to think my daughter should exceed my salary within 2-3 years simply because she chose the bar over engineering, IT, accountancy etc.

Same age as me then:D

As for your daughter - I bet you she won't.

[Sean_C]

Nowhere close to a degree.. but I got 12 A*-Bs at GCSE, did the first year of 6form and absolutely hated it. In fact, hate isn't strong enough a word. I quit it because there's no point doing something that makes me miserable, and now earn a decent wage lugging boxes and furniture around.. I'm a removal man with brains and 100 quid a day, but I'm not going to spend my life doing this. There's more going on inside than that :) But, my point is, just because some of us don't complete 6form, or Uni, doesn't mean we can't cut the mustard ;)

Its hard to know what to do. I know so many people hating 6form and Uni but moaning right through til the end. Most I know have then gone on to do something completely unrelated to the last 3 years of their life. I can see that having a degree ticks boxes, but form a personal perspective, it doesn't tick my boxes right now so it ain't gonna happen :)

[missyburd]

So for those of you with degrees do you find you get treated any differently from others without one in the workplace?
I know of people who seem to think if just because you have a degree, you automatically think you're ''better'' than those without (whatever that is supposed to mean :confused:). Obviously in the majority of cases this is far from the truth, but some individuals do seem to have strange views on such things.

Do people regret having spent a chunk of their life studying for a degree? Or would you say it has definitely changed the way people respect/think of you?

(am studying for one myself, just curious :) )

[drefraser]

Well as an eye surgeon I just hope that people don't find out that my degree is actually in Art History.
To quote Animal House "Pre-med pre-law, what's the difference?"

[Flamin_Squirrel]

So for those of you with degrees do you find you get treated any differently from others without one in the workplace?
I know of people who seem to think if just because you have a degree, you automatically think you're ''better'' than those without (whatever that is supposed to mean :confused:). Obviously in the majority of cases this is far from the truth, but some individuals do seem to have strange views on such things.

Do people regret having spent a chunk of their life studying for a degree? Or would you say it has definitely changed the way people respect/think of you?

(am studying for one myself, just curious :) )

Well due to an explosion of polytech, I mean, new universities handing degrees out like confetti, having a degree doesn't really mean much anymore.

The result is that you really need a degree now, not because it gives you a particularly high level of education, but because employers will ask why you don't have one when every other man and his dog does.

[Spanner Man]

Morning all.

Degrees seem mainly used a an indication of attainment, & that's it! My brother has two of them, & has never used either, as he's worked in IT since 1984.
I also find it unacceptable that around 50% of degree courses are dropped out of before completion, which is a shocking waste of taxpayers money. hence I agree with student loans.

As said, these days degrees seem to be given out like confetti, which will render them less & less an indication of an individuals ability to study as time progresses.....Degree, please take one!

It hacks me off that so much importance is placed on useless paper qualifications. Furthermore, as this country has got rid of it's manufacturing base (thanks Maggie) there are fewer & fewer skilled manual careers to be had.
There are not enough 'white collar' jobs for everyone, & not everyone could work at a desk, but there are few opportunities where people of the 'blue collar' type can work, attain skills, & hopefully achieve a reasonable income. & yet everyone from the Government down wonders why a proportion of the 'youth of today' act the way they do.
Well if the prospect of a 'career' saying, 'would you like fries with your cows lip burger' is all you have to look foreward to, wouldn't you be pi55ed off?

Cheers.

[gettin2dizzy]

I really don't mean this unkindly. But, as an employer - aw peeps, get real.

Someone mentioned £28K... How long do you think it takes me to earn £28K in fees? There's a tendency to think 'I'm a graduate, the world owes me a living'... well truth is, it's damn cold outside:( What are you really worth? Does the job need a graduate with little if any experience, as opposed to someone who's worked their ass off for 3 years in a workplace? I get lots of letters from people looking for training contracts, or first jobs after qualifying (3 years degree, one year postgrad, 2 years training contract) and they are looking for that sort of money... er, sorry, this is Shropshire, not London or New York...
Yeah grads so expect too much. As in my other post I think Uni should be after a few years working so you have something to relate it too, a reason to want to pursue your knowledge. Going straight from school to uni benefits no one.

The 28K i mentioned was a 30 year old guy, Chartered Engineer, Masters in Mech Eng from Bristol, Manager of a site shipping £3-5million of products a week. Whilst I agree grads do think somehow they can jump in to management straight away my argument was that advancement for engineers isn't quick at all. Becoming a chartered engineer is a seriously hard qualification to reach, and outside the UK rewarded as such. As much as the government bang on about the demand for engineers the intake of my company was 100 last year, and there were 13 000 applications! The guys in finance seem to walk away with the biggest salaries, funny that.

[Pedro68]

I think Uni should come a few years after work when you have the thirst for knowledge and the drive to want to change your working life.
I've actually put this into practice in a sense ...

I was studying HND Computer Studies at Liverpool Poly (back in '87 - '88). I just really couldn't be bothered with it though ... got through the first year without buying a single text book but then "got found out" midway through second (final) year and got kicked off my course!

I thought "sod this" and went full-time at the pub I had been working at. Spent 4 years working my way up to "relief manager", did a few and eventually decided that it wasn't for me ... I loved computers too much.

Went and got a job working for a large retailer (in their transport dept) with the plan to move into IT at the first opportunity. After working in IT for about 8 years I decided that if I was going to progress my career further, I should really go and get a degree ... an opportunity arose to go and do a MSc in Computer Studies which I did "part time" ... taking almost 6 years in the process (and failing to finish due to personal circumstances, an ar$ey professor/tutor, and the company sponsoring me making me redundant - which meant I no longer had access to the data I needed to complete my dissertation) ... ended up with a Post-Grad Diploma.

I do actually use some of the stuff (Databases in particular) in my current "technical" job role as a Business Intelligence Consultant.

But I understand perfectly what G2D is saying ... I never had a "thirst" for my HND studies ... whereas doing my masters, I thrived on working full-time during the day and then thought nothing of spending 20+ hours a week on top of that studying! I loved it! Although in the end (due to a change of jobs) I ended up doing my studies simply to prove to myself that I could study at that level and do well (I was averaging an A grade in my modules). I don't NEED a degree for my job because experience is much more in demand for what I do and I now have 4 years experience in BI and about 14 years experience in IT.

[gettin2dizzy]

Morning all.

Degrees seem mainly used a an indication of attainment, & that's it! My brother has two of them, & has never used either, as he's worked in IT since 1984.
I also find it unacceptable that around 50% of degree courses are dropped out of before completion, which is a shocking waste of taxpayers money. hence I agree with student loans.

As said, these days degrees seem to be given out like confetti, which will render them less & less an indication of an individuals ability to study as time progresses.....Degree, please take one!

It hacks me off that so much importance is placed on useless paper qualifications. Furthermore, as this country has got rid of it's manufacturing base (thanks Maggie) there are fewer & fewer skilled manual careers to be had.
There are not enough 'white collar' jobs for everyone, & not everyone could work at a desk, but there are few opportunities where people of the 'blue collar' type can work, attain skills, & hopefully achieve a reasonable income. & yet everyone from the Government down wonders why a proportion of the 'youth of today' act the way they do.
Well if the prospect of a 'career' saying, 'would you like fries with your cows lip burger' is all you have to look foreward to, wouldn't you be pi55ed off?

Cheers.

I think there's too much emphasis too. Looking back I wouldn't have bothered it's 20K of debt; i'd rather have started my own business with that! Degrees maybe handed out everywhere but employers are fully aware that they're worthless, get a mickey mouse degree or go to a terrible uni and you may aswell have saved the money.

[Sudoxe]

Well due to an explosion of polytech, I mean, new universities handing degrees out like confetti, having a degree doesn't really mean much anymore.

The result is that you really need a degree now, not because it gives you a particularly high level of education, but because employers will ask why you don't have one when every other man and his dog does.


I don't have one.

But I value practical experience & skills over whatever is taught in a classroom/lecture theatre. No matter what the course, its no match for real practical application of the theory.

Sure, you can name 7 layers of the OSI model, and have membership to the BCS. Now can you wire a plug, check routing tables, or debug a memory leak?

Having employed a few people over the past year I can't say in my company at least (a Japanese based multinational) that we look for degrees in any useful way.

In fact they may have a less than positive bearing, i.e. an interview question of "You took a comp.sci degree at a good university, why did you get a 2:2?"

Dan

[muffles]

I have a degree in Maths & Computing and it's definitely been worthwhile for me. The main reason being that the good jobs require a degree for you to even be considered, even if you could have done an equally good (or better) job without one. I don't know if spending 3 years working & learning would have made me better at what I do, but I do know I wouldn't have this job without it (or a job like this).

[Luckypants]

So for those of you with degrees do you find you get treated any differently from others without one in the workplace?
I know of people who seem to think if just because you have a degree, you automatically think you're ''better'' than those without (whatever that is supposed to mean :confused:). Obviously in the majority of cases this is far from the truth, but some individuals do seem to have strange views on such things.

Do people regret having spent a chunk of their life studying for a degree? Or would you say it has definitely changed the way people respect/think of you?

(am studying for one myself, just curious :) )

I found that a degree was useful to get into the technical side of computing and it helped land me my next two jobs after that. But after 7-8 years it is much more about what you have ahieved in the workplace, hopefully based on merit.

I have several very capable friends who came into computing by another route and did not have degrees. They hit a glass ceiling and found it hard to go further up the management ladder without a degree. One guy I know had 10 years in the Navy as an engineer, 10 years in networking at a high standard but could not get into 2nd line management. He did an MBA part time and is now IT director for a Blue Chip company. Go figure, did his MBA suddenly make him more intelligent or was it just the right tick in the box for a management job?


PS My daughter is at the same Uni as you I believe.

[adw]

I have a job in IT (don't most of us?!?!) and don't have a degree. Instead i went down the route of IT professional qualifications such as MCSE's, CCNA etc. I wanted to work for a large university and they had requirements such as Degree's etc. I applied anyway and got the job.

People shouldn't be put off applying for jobs where degree's seem mandatory. Good employers look through your CV of experience and find out about the real you. Also, practical tests where possible are useful albeit nerve wracking! They sort the talkers from the doers

My best interview technique is being plain honest. I haven't got every job i applied for, but have got most. Experience is the key. Every other person applying for my job had a degree of some sort.

[Tiger 55]

I know so many people hating Uni but moaning right through til the end.
How could anyone not enjoy Uni? Get up when you want, go in when you want, dog ate my homework Professor, sod the exam I'll study for the resit, student union beer prices, lovely ladies (with brains!), arcade games/pinball/snooker all day, smashing. And you're learning stuff! If I won the lottery I'd go back...

I frequently use my law degree to dispense free (and increasingly out of date) legal advice to my passengers, but it isn't strictly speaking part of the job :-D

[sarah]

I have a degree. My job requires that I have a technical degree. I don't use the knowledge that I gained from doing my degree (often, though others doing the same job as me do) but I do use the skills that I developed from my degree to do my job.

[gettin2dizzy]

How could anyone not enjoy Uni? Get up when you want, go in when you want, dog ate my homework Professor, sod the exam I'll study for the resit, student union beer prices, lovely ladies (with brains!), arcade games/pinball/snooker all day, smashing. And you're learning stuff! If I won the lottery I'd go back...

I frequently use my law degree to dispense free (and increasingly out of date) legal advice to my passengers, but it isn't strictly speaking part of the job :-D
Mine was really hard. Uni was fun but the work was very difficult, not all students get to **** around all day long!

[Alpinestarhero]

Mine was really hard. Uni was fun but the work was very difficult, not all students get to **** around all day long!

I certainly dont :(

Matt

[timwilky]

University is a fountain of knowledge, where students go to drink.

I had lectures every day only thursday afternoons without one. I could never understand how some ....grrrrrr Psychology wasters grrrr only had lectures on 2 days a week and still got degrees. One waster even told me that engineers were incapable of thinking for themselves and simply regurgitated others work. grrrr. Yup never saw the purpose of a pychologist. Should be first against the wall come the glorious day when the engineers rise again

[Nic]

Am I allowed to post on here darylB's daughter btw. I guess this isnt directly bike related so im going to anyway.

I graduated this year I did a BSc in Information Systems and Music, however due to the course being rubbish and assuming as soon as I left college I had programming experience (I actually had none and they expected us to learn about 7 different languages in 3 years) and our performance co ordinator had his favourites and I wasnt one of them, I ended up with a crap grade, I dont even list it on my cv.

I started working in May as an IT Support Tech, I found out after about 2 months of working here that they only employed me as I had a fair amount of IT knowledge and due to having no experience I was cheap to employ. I dont really use anything I learnt in my 3 years of Uni at all, I hate my job but I seem to be unemployable around here due to having no experience and not having the CCNA, MCSE everyone asks for nowadays.

[gettin2dizzy]

University is a fountain of knowledge, where students go to drink.

I had lectures every day only thursday afternoons without one. I could never understand how some ....grrrrrr Psychology wasters grrrr only had lectures on 2 days a week and still got degrees. One waster even told me that engineers were incapable of thinking for themselves and simply regurgitated others work. grrrr. Yup never saw the purpose of a pychologist. Should be first against the wall come the glorious day when the engineers rise again

Engineering is all about thinking! If only it was remembering; there's a limit to how hard that can be (i.e. easy!). Being able to fully understand and apply your knowledge is entirely what engineering is about. Even the med students admit it's just quantity of work that annoys them, that it's no harder than A-Level.

[missyburd]

PS My daughter is at the same Uni as you I believe.

small world! :) i love aber, tis a great place to study.

University is a fountain of knowledge, where students go to drink.

I had lectures every day only thursday afternoons without one. I could never understand how some ....grrrrrr Psychology wasters grrrr only had lectures on 2 days a week and still got degrees. One waster even told me that engineers were incapable of thinking for themselves and simply regurgitated others work. grrrr. Yup never saw the purpose of a pychologist. Should be first against the wall come the glorious day when the engineers rise again


so true, some of the degrees at my uni don't sound real...got a housemate who does ''Film and Television'' and she used to spend 3 hours watching a film on the monday, mebbe a seminar or a couple of lectures during the week and an essay to do :mad: whereas I'd be in uni for most of the day every day and expected to swallow textbooks :smt012 oh yeah and one of her exams involved naming the functions of a camera!! taxing...

my cousins are all from down south and have either done a psychology degree or are doing one, and someone else did a Public Relations one. I'm the only one doing a BSc and even if my degree comes out rubbish at least I'll be able to say have attempted a 'proper' degree :mrgreen:

[Nick762]

Did a degree in Environmental Science back in '83 and ended up working in IT for 20 odd years before I could escape.

I'm back at uni now in my second year of a paramedic science programme which will take about 5 years to complete (first 3 years full time to foundation degree level and the last 2 part time for the full BSc although I'm actually working as an EMT for 2 weeks out of 4 for the next 2 years anyway). I'm hoping that it will come in useful!!!

It seems to me that there are 2 types of degree, vocational and general. If you intend to become for example an engineering professional then it makes sense to take an appropriate degree e.g. mining, civil, marine etc. Some career paths you don't have any choice i.e. pretty much anything health related (nursing, physio, ODP, radiographer). They don't always have to be directly related to your career choice, a former colleague's daughter who wanted to go into journalism was told to look for a solid subject like english which would be of much more use than many "journalism" courses on offer.

Some institutions "like" their new recruits to be qualified to degree level e.g. commissioned officer in the forces or civil service so the ability to prove you can achieve a good pass in a useful subject is a plus but is not mandatory (but bear in mind that in the future you will be competing against graduates for promotion). If you plan on going into anything with "chartered" in the title again I think it helps to have a degree as a starting point (heard a whisper that although high placed officials in Northern Rock had degrees in economics, none of them were members of the Charted Institute of Bankers)

IMO the trouble is that we have a government that seems to want to churn out graduates simply to look good on the statistics front and doesn't really care what discipline they are studying. All you are doing is raising the expectations of students when they really aren't enough jobs that actually require a degree to go round. I agree wholeheartedly with the earlier poster who said that engineers don't get the respect the deserve in this country. We are losing too many people who are good with their hands down inappropriate academic paths. On the other hand I know many people who don't have degrees and are doing just fine.

Again on the other hand lets get a few more MBAs in the NHS and maybe we won't see a repeat of the criminally irresponsible farce that is the PFI contract.

[gettin2dizzy]

Which is why uni places used to be limited, to stop people going to uni for the sake of it and just racking up debt. Labour used it as some kind of argument against them that it meant uni wasn't available to the poor; as if! Their policy now just means all but the poorest pay through their teeth for it and thousands end up in huge unecessary debt.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I also find it unacceptable that around 50% of degree courses are dropped out of before completion, which is a shocking waste of taxpayers money. hence I agree with student loans.

That's because any idiot is allowed to do a degree. No other reason. Drop outs are more than when they had grants.

It hacks me off that so much importance is placed on useless paper qualifications. Furthermore, as this country has got rid of it's manufacturing base (thanks Maggie) there are fewer & fewer skilled manual careers to be had.
There are not enough 'white collar' jobs for everyone, & not everyone could work at a desk, but there are few opportunities where people of the 'blue collar' type can work, attain skills, & hopefully achieve a reasonable income. & yet everyone from the Government down wonders why a proportion of the 'youth of today' act the way they do.
Well if the prospect of a 'career' saying, 'would you like fries with your cows lip burger' is all you have to look foreward to, wouldn't you be pi55ed off?

Cheers.

Manufacturing is dead in this country because half the worlds population reside in China and India, working un-unionised, for peanuts. It's not Maggies fault - we wanted cheap good that we couldn't possibly supply ourselves.

I don't have one.

But I value practical experience & skills over whatever is taught in a classroom/lecture theatre. No matter what the course, its no match for real practical application of the theory.

Sure, you can name 7 layers of the OSI model, and have membership to the BCS. Now can you wire a plug, check routing tables, or debug a memory leak?

Having employed a few people over the past year I can't say in my company at least (a Japanese based multinational) that we look for degrees in any useful way.

In fact they may have a less than positive bearing, i.e. an interview question of "You took a comp.sci degree at a good university, why did you get a 2:2?"

Dan

I looked at getting into IT before I started in engineering, and none of the jobs I saw were interested if you didn't have a degree.

While I'd agree that especially in IT that practical experience is more valuble than formal education, I'd say that IT is an exception.

[G]

I have a degree, I need it for my job and I need it for my chartered status :(.

However, currently looking at moving to something completely different.

I didnt get into a debt though whilst at uni, didnt take any student loans, didnt take any grants.....just worked most evenings.

[Luckypants]

Which is why uni places used to be limited, to stop people going to uni for the sake of it and just racking up debt. Labour used it as some kind of argument against them that it meant uni wasn't available to the poor; as if! Their policy now just means all but the poorest pay through their teeth for it and thousands end up in huge unecessary debt.

Quite agree. I also think that Labour uses the universities as a means to keep unemployment figures down. No job? Go to uni....

As for the arguement that Universities were ntaccessible to the poor, why not re-introduce the student maintenance grant? Means tested perhaps. From a relatively poor family myself, without a grant I would never have gone to college, got a degree and be paying 40% tax in return for my 'free' education. I really do feel that todays genuine student doing a useful degree gets a raw deal.

[G]

I really do feel that todays genuine student doing a useful degree gets a raw deal.

One thing I hate is when you get people slating University as a whole, saying it pointless and full of bums.

Yes people doing art degrees or studying the clingon language. Completely funded by the goverment, then get into loads of debt and only go to uni 6 hours a week are a waste of space. There is still alot of relevant degrees, that you cant just bum through and are required to work in that profession.

[Spanner Man]

[quote=Flamin_Squirrel;1359696]That's because any idiot is allowed to do a degree.

I take it you've got a degree then!

Manufacturing is dead in this country because half the worlds population reside in China and India, working un-unionised, for peanuts. It's not Maggies fault - we wanted cheap good that we couldn't possibly supply ourselves.

Ladies & Gentlemen we've just found 'TORY BOY!'... Of course it wasn't Maggies fault, like it wasn't her Government that started the trend for reducing income tax back in 1979, & hence the introduction of 'stealth taxes'. 1979 also coincided with the near doubling of VAT, which was supposed to be a tax on luxuries, & has since crept into almost everything we purchase....I could go on!:D

[Flamin_Squirrel]

That's because any idiot is allowed to do a degree.

I take it you've got a degree then!

Manufacturing is dead in this country because half the worlds population reside in China and India, working un-unionised, for peanuts. It's not Maggies fault - we wanted cheap good that we couldn't possibly supply ourselves.

Ladies & Gentlemen we've just found 'TORY BOY!'... Of course it wasn't Maggies fault, like it wasn't her Government that started the trend for reducing income tax back in 1979, & hence the introduction of 'stealth taxes'. 1979 also coincided with the near doubling of VAT, which was supposed to be a tax on luxuries, & has since crept into almost everything we purchase....I could go on!:D

Resentful blue colar slob who lost their job because the company they worked for couldn't afford to pay them 20 times more than they're worth?

[Pedrosa]

Read all about it.....


FS outed as rosette wearing conservative!







:p

[G]

Nowt wrong with conservative lol ;) I for one would be better off with their ideas.

[gettin2dizzy]

I vote Ron Paul, he's just standing in the wrong country

[Pedrosa]

Resentful blue colar slob who lost their job because the company they worked for couldn't afford to pay them 20 times more than they're worth?

That FS is a particularly jaundiced and uneducated comment based on no real understanding of the economic and political climate of the time. Yes there were employment related issues,but to use such a blanket statement is for me simply wrong.

Perhaps reassesing where you gather your biased information from,might serve you well, when outside of a Tory conference.:p

[Spanner Man]

That FS is a particularly jaundiced and uneducated comment based on no real understanding of the economic and political climate of the time. Yes there were employment related issues,but to use such a blanket statement is for me simply wrong.

Perhaps reassesing where you gather your biased information from,might swerve you well, when outside of a Tory conference.:p

I couldn't have put it better myself!:D

Perhaps FS that should have read resentful blue collar slobs, instead of slob...........Tory boy can't spell either!:D

[redbouy]

G2D you at one stage looked at my world, How come you backed out. No degree's needed [my engineer is trained as a chef] My last job as engineer I was on about 13 K on a boat and it was not a big one.[70 mtr] I have no degree and had a app in train fixing, We need an extra 400 engineers now and they can be any one, just a bit of tech brain power is needed. The companies down here raid the RN for them.

[gettin2dizzy]

I'm tempted again! I just bought in to the belief it was too good to be true! I may call over in summer ;)

[Luckypants]

.... Of course it wasn't Maggies fault, like it wasn't her Government that started the trend for reducing income tax back in 1979, & hence the introduction of 'stealth taxes'.

What's wrong with reduced income tax? I prefer to take the money I earn home with me to spend as I see fit. Check your facts, when the tories left power, the tax take in this county was around 41% of GDP, one of the lowest in Europe. The introduction of 'stealth taxes' is entirely a Labour device after Tony's pledge not to increase income tax - so they tax everything else instead. The tax take under Labour has risen to around 44% of GDP, one of the highest in Europe.

1979 also coincided with the near doubling of VAT, which was supposed to be a tax on luxuries, & has since crept into almost everything we purchase....I could go on!:D

The VAT increase was forced on us as a harmonisation of VAT accross the EU. It was the Maggie that negotiated the huge 'tax rebate' from the EU in return. It is Tony and his Labour numbnuts trying to give that back to the EU.


I have no affiliation to any political party, but it really hacks me off when folks blame everything on a prime minister who has been out of office 17 years and a party that has been out of office for 10.

The current state of the British economy can be laid squarely at the door of the current government. They have had 10 years to sort out any problems in manufacturing and the rest of the economy.

The same can be said of University funding. They have had 10 years to sort it out. Instead they more than anyone else are sending the message that University is for all, no matter what your academic ability. Hence the proliferation of pointless courses. They are also promoting the idea that it is OK to go into debt, because most students have to borrow to fund thier studies.

If they provided full grants for 'proper' degrees and funded the Universities accordingly, we would have a pool of high calibre graduates every year, not a raft of 'media studies' muppets who think they are owed a living. Universities are meant to be elitist - it's University FFS where the best academically able go to further thier studies. It is not general education, it is higher education. University should be open to all, regardless of colour, creed or social background as long as they have the academic ability to perform at the level expected of a quality graduate. Student maintenance grants and central funding for Universities would help achieve this.

[redbouy]

Its not easy as they say, You do get some bad boats, But some are dead easy. Had one which went to sea for 2 weeks a year. The rest was relax and take time off. I went all over europe [by plane] I have changed over to captain now. You have to do some exams [1 week] as you move up. I have found most of the rest of the crew dont like the engineers because we earn more and get there faster than any one.
My engineer earns 2 times the 1st mate.
engineer 1st job as such.
1st mate 14 years at it.
the engineer will be on about 8/10 k a month in the hand by 5 years

[Spanner Man]

Did I get a bullseye with that one Luckypants!:D

When one takes a swipe at Maggies government, it relates to the fact that it was under her government that the greatest changes occured in our society. Namely the undermining of good old social values, & the creation of an everyman for himself society!

Her government conveniently unburdened itself of several responsibilities including; Social housing, & the utilities. And look what a mess they're both in now! & where did the money saved go?.....That along with a considerable amount of North sea oil revenue has not really been accounted for. Rather leading one to the conclusion that they made a right b@lls up of things....Good riddance to the old Bag.
John Majors lot were better, it's a shame that they didn't get a second term, then we might not have got the ****s who are sodding things up now.

[Pedrosa]

Taking away any economical issues,for which an equally damning or complimentary argument can be presented for the Thatcher years; there is the manifestation today of all that the policies and attitudes of the Iron lady's administration promoted in society.


Sefishness and personal greed was encouraged in a manner never seen before. It was "everyone for themselves" and the sense of society in general had no value. An era that spawned the "yuppy" motivated by personal gain.

It is those people who have produced the youth of today,who have inherited from their parents an attitiude of "the devil take the hindmost" and that has been identified as producing as a result the kind of levels of bullying and aggresion that we all despair of now.

In short yes, The Thatcher years corrected many an economical fault and the country in general terms became stronger. There were though painful periods of boom and bust, sky high interest rates and on the face of it those "with" benefitting way above those who were "without" But there were many basic values that got left behind,all of which fuelled the moral decline of the Britain of today.

[Luckypants]

Did I get a bullseye with that one Luckypants!:D

When one takes a swipe at Maggies government, it relates to the fact that it was under her government that the greatest changes occured in our society. Namely the undermining of good old social values, & the creation of an everyman for himself society!

That is true I agree. BUT that is not what you said in your earlier post(s) so you are conveniently shifting the argument away from the area where you started it. You were talking about tax.

Her government conveniently unburdened itself of several responsibilities including; Social housing, & the utilities. And look what a mess they're both in now! & where did the money saved go?.....

Totally agree, but if Labour was so violently opposed to these policies, they could have re-nationalised. IMHO money raised from selling council houses should have been ploughed into building more council houses and utilities such as water, gas, electricity etc should be nationlised. The problem then would be effective management. Having worked in electricity industry shortly after privatisation, the mentality of SOME of the ex-CEGB managers was staggering. Needless to say they got 'early retirement'.

Sorry, you got me on my soapbox now! :rant:

[kwak zzr]

lots of people at the royal mail have good qualifications degree's etc but choose to sit the easy life where they are, its easy it pays well with full sick pay and other benefits so why struggle anywhere else?

[gettin2dizzy]

What's wrong with reduced income tax? I prefer to take the money I earn home with me to spend as I see fit. Check your facts, when the tories left power, the tax take in this county was around 41% of GDP, one of the lowest in Europe. The introduction of 'stealth taxes' is entirely a Labour device after Tony's pledge not to increase income tax - so they tax everything else instead. The tax take under Labour has risen to around 44% of GDP, one of the highest in Europe.



The VAT increase was forced on us as a harmonisation of VAT accross the EU. It was the Maggie that negotiated the huge 'tax rebate' from the EU in return. It is Tony and his Labour numbnuts trying to give that back to the EU.


I have no affiliation to any political party, but it really hacks me off when folks blame everything on a prime minister who has been out of office 17 years and a party that has been out of office for 10.

The current state of the British economy can be laid squarely at the door of the current government. They have had 10 years to sort out any problems in manufacturing and the rest of the economy.

The same can be said of University funding. They have had 10 years to sort it out. Instead they more than anyone else are sending the message that University is for all, no matter what your academic ability. Hence the proliferation of pointless courses. They are also promoting the idea that it is OK to go into debt, because most students have to borrow to fund thier studies.

If they provided full grants for 'proper' degrees and funded the Universities accordingly, we would have a pool of high calibre graduates every year, not a raft of 'media studies' muppets who think they are owed a living. Universities are meant to be elitist - it's University FFS where the best academically able go to further thier studies. It is not general education, it is higher education. University should be open to all, regardless of colour, creed or social background as long as they have the academic ability to perform at the level expected of a quality graduate. Student maintenance grants and central funding for Universities would help achieve this.

Well put :)

[Ed]

I consider that FS's views - as applied to what was happening in the 1960s and 1970s generally, and not to any one person - are right.

Did any of you see Andrew Marr's 'History of Modern Britain' - he set it all out in glorious technicolour. I think the problem was that whilst WW2 was a very very painful experience for the UK, we didn't really rebuild our economy.
So, for example, that's why we have such creaking transport infrastructure. We won the war, so we didn't have to rebuild, the old attitudes could carry on relatively unchallenged, we were the victors so we could set the pace. Only it turned out that we couldn't, and the sweeping Attlee nationalisations simply introduced huge waves of inefficiency.

The history of Adenauer's West Germany is simply amazing - how the country went from Nazi ruin to become the most successful economy in Europe in such a short time. Why - because they worked hard to rebuild, both politically and socially, while we did not.

[phil24_7]

Got a HND level 2, level 3, HND and a degree in Business Studies and I'm a bar manager!

[Spanner Man]

That is true I agree. BUT that is not what you said in your earlier post(s) so you are conveniently shifting the argument away from the area where you started it. You were talking about tax.



Totally agree, but if Labour was so violently opposed to these policies, they could have re-nationalised. IMHO money raised from selling council houses should have been ploughed into building more council houses and utilities such as water, gas, electricity etc should be nationlised. The problem then would be effective management. Having worked in electricity industry shortly after privatisation, the mentality of SOME of the ex-CEGB managers was staggering. Needless to say they got 'early retirement'.

Sorry, you got me on my soapbox now! :rant:


Simmer down boy!:D

As tax burden records weren't accurately kept until 20 years ago it would be difficult to calculate what the percentage of GDP was in the pre OLD BAG years. However, I remember paying income tax at 33%, minimal National insurance, & VAT was 8% & only on certain items. Certainly ones hard earned seemed to go further.
Successive governments have introduced back door taxes, to compensate for reductions in income tax. As the average Sun reader, sorry voter only ever seems to look at what is in his or her hand at the end of the week.

I agree money from council house sales should have been used for building more houses, but it wasn't, & where did it go?

How the hell do you re nationalise something if the share holders don't want to sell? You can't just take it! & there's the slight problem of where the money to do it will come from.
So it seems we're stuck with the farcical situation with the utilities where you can purchase the same product, coming out of the same hole in the ground, from the same source from several different organizations at different prices. They're all using the same crumbling infrastructure, & their activities are 'regulated' by useless paper tigers such as Offwat & Offtel, or Offtoss as I prefer to call them.

You're dead right about the problem with the Utilities, or the Railways for that matter being effective management. But it wasn't an insurmountable problem.

I have already stated my main argument for retaining manufacturing, & that's to retain the greatest number of employment opportunities in this country, where there is the chance for us 'Blue collar scum' to gain a skill, & a decent income to go with it.
Not to mention the fact that making something, selling it abroad, & bringing someone elses money into our economy, has got to be better than 'recycling' the money already in our economy via interest charges don't you think?

Cheers.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

How the hell do you re nationalise something if the share holders don't want to sell? You can't just take it! & there's the slight problem of where the money to do it will come from.
So it seems we're stuck with the farcical situation with the utilities where you can purchase the same product, coming out of the same hole in the ground, from the same source from several different organizations at different prices. They're all using the same crumbling infrastructure, & their activities are 'regulated' by useless paper tigers such as Offwat & Offtel, or Offtoss as I prefer to call them.

You're dead right about the problem with the Utilities, or the Railways for that matter being effective management. But it wasn't an insurmountable problem.

The government didn't invest in the utilities and transport then, what makes you think that if they were still in control they would do now?

As for it just being a matter of effective management, well government IS management, and if they can't get that bit right it's not exactly going to be an easy fix is it?

I have already stated my main argument for retaining manufacturing, & that's to retain the greatest number of employment opportunities in this country, where there is the chance for us 'Blue collar scum' to gain a skill, & a decent income to go with it.
Not to mention the fact that making something, selling it abroad, & bringing someone elses money into our economy, has got to be better than 'recycling' the money already in our economy via interest charges don't you think?

Cheers.

Why would anyone at home, let alone aborad, buy goods from Britain when they can buy them for a fraction of the price elsewhere?

[Pedrosa]

One should not overlook the devastating affect that the oil crisis of 1973 had on industry and manufacturing of Britain. This saw crude barrel prices spiral upwards to an all time peak level in 1980. That level has only recently been approached after almost 30 years.

When you take in to account inflation, the cost of oil in 1980 would have been a major blow and therefore citing in isolation over zealous pay claims by workers does not at all consider the whole picture.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

One should not overlook the devastating affect that the oil crisis of 1973 had on industry and manufacturing of Britain. This saw crude barrel prices spiral upwards to an all time peak level in 1980. That level has only recently been approached after almost 30 years.

When you take in to account inflation, the cost of oil in 1980 would have been a major blow and therefore citing in isolation over zealous pay claims by workers does not at all consider the whole picture.

The oil price crisis wasn't unique to the UK though was it.

Sounds as if anything, all it did was to accelerate the inevitable rather than cause it.

[plowsie]

School woulda laughed at me and so would my maths teacher if i had told them that in 3 years i would be a trainee financial advisor.....

[drefraser]

School woulda laughed at me and so would my maths teacher if i had told them that in 3 years i would be a trainee financial advisor.....

If you'd like we could do that for you now :smt043

[Pedrosa]

The oil price crisis wasn't unique to the UK though was it.

Sounds as if anything, all it did was to accelerate the inevitable rather than cause it.

No it wasn't but it did allow the alternative sources of products to flourish due to their countries either having their own oil resources or more commonly a large reliance and supply of coal for power. Not to under state also the value of governmental subsidies which allowed them to weather the storm.

Saying that wide spread decimation of the manufacturing industry of the UK and thousands of lives and communities that relied upon it, was inevitable is for me a very narrow outlook.

Are any of your opinions on this issue actually personal beliefs due to knowledge of the subject or are you simply carrying on the tradition of conservative bias handed down through your family?

You would never rock the family boat like Tony Blair did, would you?;):)

[Stig]

Jordon strikes again I see. :lol: It amazes me how you still get so many bites. :lol:

Where I work, there are several uni chaps with degrees. I can assure you, there is absolutely no need for a degree of anything where I work. There can't be as I work there. It does seem a bit of waste for them being there doing what they are doing though.

One guy has been there since he left uni. He's 29 now and works for me. I've been there a whole 3 years. Madness.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

No it wasn't but it did allow the alternative sources of products to flourish due to their countries either having their own oil resources or more commonly a large reliance and supply of coal for power. Not to under state also the value of governmental subsidies which allowed them to weather the storm.

Saying that wide spread decimation of the manufacturing industry of the UK and thousands of lives and communities that relied upon it, was inevitable is for me a very narrow outlook.

Are any of your opinions on this issue actually personal beliefs due to knowledge of the subject or are you simply carrying on the tradition of conservative bias handed down through your family?

You would never rock the family boat like Tony Blair did, would you?;):)

It amuses me that you assume I support the conservatives at all, just because I don't support left wing economic policies.

It's simply not possible to produce low/medium tech goods at a competative price here. I don't see how oil makes the slightest difference to the end result.

[Pedrosa]

It amuses me that you assume I support the conservatives at all, just because I don't support left wing economic policies.

It's simply not possible to produce low/medium tech goods at a competative price here. I don't see how oil makes the slightest difference to the end result.

Perhaps just a devilish ploy on my part to extend the debate a little.......;)

[Spanner Man]

It amuses me that you assume I support the conservatives at all, just because I don't support left wing economic policies.

It's simply not possible to produce low/medium tech goods at a competative price here. I don't see how oil makes the slightest difference to the end result.

Sorry chaps had work to do.

What the F@@K has decent employment for everyone got to do with left or right wing policies?
Agreed, some Trade Unions were taking the PI55 & needed their wings clipped, but since the Miners strike it has swung too far the other way, but you wouldn't remember that because you were still in short trousers.

[Ed]

Sorry chaps had work to do.

What the F@@K has decent employment for everyone got to do with left or right wing policies?
Agreed, some Trade Unions were taking the PI55 & needed their wings clipped, but since the Miners strike it has swung too far the other way, but you wouldn't remember that because you were still in short trousers.

No not just since the miners strike, there were several (not just 'some') examples well before that of communist union bosses abusing their power. Car workers - how many times did Ford go on strike - and BMC and then British Leyland with Derek Robinson, train drivers, steel workers, miners several times, electricity gererating workers, postal workers, local government workers - the list goes on and on. That is not to say that some of these did not have genuine grievances. But so much was simply abuse of power. Thatcher was right to show people who's boss. With the benefit of hindsight, maybe she went a bit too far, and the social damage was incalculable. But no country can allow a situation where a minority is holding it to ransom.

[Spanner Man]

I was in the TGWU when I was a London bus driver many years ago, their behaviour was appalling! They would blatantly defend individuals who were basically dossers who didn't want to do the job.
I crossed a picket line on one occasion when they had called a strike over the union blackboard. It's a long story, but I was subjected to a fair degree of intimidation for not toeing the union line.
It was like being back at school! 7 onto 1 in the toilets of all places. I pointed out that my size 12's were steel capped, & that I would take 2 or 3 of them out if they tried anything. Also, that when I recovered I would get them one at a time. Fortunately they backed off.

So having had firsthand experience of just how bad unions could be, I agree that a tough line had to be taken with them, but as you said it has gone too far.

However I dread to think what our society is going to become as the divide between the skilled & the unskilled for want of a place of employment grows ever wider.

Cheers.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Sorry chaps had work to do.

What the F@@K has decent employment for everyone got to do with left or right wing policies?
Agreed, some Trade Unions were taking the PI55 & needed their wings clipped, but since the Miners strike it has swung too far the other way, but you wouldn't remember that because you were still in short trousers.

I don't support the idea of keeping people in a job for the sake of it. I don't see how you're making the mental leap between that and me wanting to see a large number of people made unemployable.

However I dread to think what our society is going to become as the divide between the skilled & the unskilled for want of a place of employment grows ever wider.

Cheers.

Christ, forget short trousers - the way you're talking you'd believe it was the 1870s we were talking about not the 1970s. You sound like a luddite.

The introduction of ever cheaper mass produced goods didn't mean the end of employment then, and it won't do now.

[gettin2dizzy]

The union where I work made everyone go on strike because the company had fired a group of workers found all fast asleep whilst at work. Their excuse was that it was unfair for people to work on night shifts! That picket line was difficult to walk through! (luckily I hadn't started by then:))

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

I don't use mine specifically for my job, but I do my job considerably better than most of the others because of the stuff I picked up from the degree. Even basic report writing, computer use, problem solving and teamworking are things a degree gives you that most people would be hard pushed to pick up any other way.

[Spanner Man]

I don't support the idea of keeping people in a job for the sake of it. I don't see how you're making the mental leap between that and me wanting to see a large number of people made unemployable.



Christ, forget short trousers - the way you're talking you'd believe it was the 1870s we were talking about not the 1970s. You sound like a luddite.

The introduction of ever cheaper mass produced goods didn't mean the end of employment then, and it won't do now.

Nice to see you exhibiting the wonderfully selfish attitudes that prevail amongst people bought up since the Thatcher years.:D

For starters, not everyone can do, for want of a better term 'white collar work'. In the same way that not everyone could learn to play the guitar, play tennis, or dance the foxtrot for that matter. You need a thing called aptitude. If you haven't got it you're stuffed! What's more there aren't enough such careers for the entire workforce in any case.
In my view, most people have a skill which could be used to gain a reasonable income. This is sometimes not apparent until one has tried ones hand at a few different things. Therefore if the opportunities aren't there once again one is stuffed!

Furthermore, I believe that any community, or society for that matter, should be as diverse as possible. In this case the more diverse a communities employment opportunities are, the more chance one has of finding a job where one can put ones skills to good effect, & hopefully earn a decent crust. Hardly the view of a Luddite eh!

Of course the end of manufacturing doesn't mean that there wont be employment. I'm sure there will be lots of exiting careers to be had in the tourism & fast food retailing sector. Which is really something to look forward to when you leave school.

Cheers.

[Lissa]

My son graduated from Newport Uni last year with a degree in Sport Science. He's always been seriously into health and fitness, does body buliding and mountain biking, but since leaving Uni he's worked for a building society:confused:

Last night though I had a call from him to tell me he's been accepted by Reading Uni to do a post grad teaching course concentrating on PE and sport. There were only 11 places and almost 200 applicants, so as you can imagine he's feeling really good. My son..a teacher! Don't know whether that's brave or stupid:D

[Stig]

My son graduated from Newport Uni last year with a degree in Sport Science. He's always been seriously into health and fitness, does body buliding and mountain biking, but since leaving Uni he's worked for a building society:confused:

Last night though I had a call from him to tell me he's been accepted by Reading Uni to do a post grad teaching course concentrating on PE and sport. There were only 11 places and almost 200 applicants, so as you can imagine he's feeling really good. My son..a teacher! Don't know whether that's brave or stupid:D

He will be chuffed. I play squash at Reading Uni. They have some pretty fit female students. :lol:

[Lissa]

He will be chuffed. I play squash at Reading Uni. They have some pretty fit female students. :lol:


Hmmm................I don't think I'll mention that fact to his partner, then;)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Nice to see you exhibiting the wonderfully selfish attitudes that prevail amongst people bought up since the Thatcher years.:D

What's selfish about a desire to see the country progress?

For starters, not everyone can do, for want of a better term 'white collar work'. In the same way that not everyone could learn to play the guitar, play tennis, or dance the foxtrot for that matter. You need a thing called aptitude. If you haven't got it you're stuffed! What's more there aren't enough such careers for the entire workforce in any case.
In my view, most people have a skill which could be used to gain a reasonable income. This is sometimes not apparent until one has tried ones hand at a few different things. Therefore if the opportunities aren't there once again one is stuffed!

Furthermore, I believe that any community, or society for that matter, should be as diverse as possible. In this case the more diverse a communities employment opportunities are, the more chance one has of finding a job where one can put ones skills to good effect, & hopefully earn a decent crust. Hardly the view of a Luddite eh!

Of course the end of manufacturing doesn't mean that there wont be employment. I'm sure there will be lots of exiting careers to be had in the tourism & fast food retailing sector. Which is really something to look forward to when you leave school.

Cheers.

There's now a greater variety of jobs than ever before, but you're saying there are less opportunities for people? And at the same time complaining that there aren't enough unskilled jobs, but it's terrible that that's all people have to look forward to after leaving school?

You're making no sense what so ever.

[thor]

I would like to make the following points.

Manufactruing went to idia and china because they do the same job for less. It's that simple. Funny thing is, most chinese firms make their products for British firms, who then sell them here. They don't sell them direct. They wouldn't have a clue what we want. The ipod is the classic example, but for the US. So there are plenty of uk firms that are just doing this as a way to compete.

Second point is this. Some of you know that I work in finance and I have worked with and interviewed many high fliers from many countries. What you should know is that the english university system and work culture is very non-vocational when it comes to this kind of role. English people have a lot of options when they leave uni and that is something I am very proud of. You take australia for example. If you want an accountancy job there, you need an accountancy degree. If you have a science degree then you can get an accountancy job here, but not there.

Myself? I don't use anything about the General Relativity that I learned at uni, but I know that if something is really hard, it can't harder than that! What I do use is the problem solving and analytical skills. I also need some maths and some abstract thinking.

[Spanner Man]

What's selfish about a desire to see the country progress?



There's now a greater variety of jobs than ever before, but you're saying there are less opportunities for people? And at the same time complaining that there aren't enough unskilled jobs, but it's terrible that that's all people have to look forward to after leaving school?

You're making no sense what so ever.

Read my posts again child!.....At no point have I said that we need more unskilled work. Quite the opposite infact.
My point, for those incapable of reading English, is that; Manufacturing industry contained everything from Skilled production & maintenance opportunities, work for 'white collar scum' & unskilled work of the hump & grunt/cleaning variety.

Cheers.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Read my posts again child!.....At no point have I said that we need more unskilled work. Quite the opposite infact.
My point, for those incapable of reading English, is that; Manufacturing industry contained everything from Skilled production & maintenance opportunities, work for 'white collar scum' & unskilled work of the hump & grunt/cleaning variety.

Cheers.

Whilst you aren't capable of grasping the most basic economic principles I suggest you don't insult my intelligence.

[northwind]

COngratulations everyone! You both lose. My recommendation now is that somebody comparese the other to Hitler, and we'll have all the boxes ticked.

[Spanner Man]

Whilst you aren't capable of grasping the most basic economic principles I suggest you don't insult my intelligence.


Telling someone who has run his own business since you were playing with dollies he knows nothing about economics is a tad rich methinks!..... Insult your intelligence? What are you going to do? Wait for me after school!:D

I'm afraid you've totally missed my point regarding the social impact that the decreasing number of varied employment opportunities have had over the last 30 years.

Zieg heil to you Northy:D

Cheers.

[gettin2dizzy]

If anyone could find a definitive answer to what went wrong with past politics they would be sitting in power right now. Your personal circumstances whether in work, family, class or financially, geographically and socially are all going to play a part in your view. You can only be entirely correct from your perspective and that only rings true to yourself. It's an interesting talking point but not one that requires jibes to come to a conclusion. Arguing over who knows most due to their age is just laughable; ask Tony Blackburn for hairstyle advice if you want proof ;)

[Biker Biggles]

Ho ho what a can of worms we have opened.:)
Im no economist and attended the Toothickfor University but the basics are pretty simple.The capitalist economic system relies on growth,and that applies to individual companies and whole economies alike.Thus there is a constant requirement to expand into new markets in order to exploit them and make profits.Ultimately this means exporting goods and services to bring in fresh money,just like China is doing by manufacturing everything and flogging it to the rest of the world.We used to do that,but hardly do it any more,so we are left with re-circulating money already in our economy.This means for two decades we have been living off the proceeds of selling the family silver,and or borrowing against the same silver.Just like any increasing debt,there comes a time when it has to be paid off,and that is when our economy will collapse,as it is no longer underwritten by anything of substance that we actually own or can produce.We are living off the fruits of our parents and grandparents labours,and those fruits wont last forever.