View Full Version : US Recession
gettin2dizzy
12-12-07, 11:55 AM
Morgan Stanley have today issued an alert that the US recession is here. It looks like the US is going down down down!
I find it amusing that the greed of the big boys in these businesses has brought themselves to their knees. No one can afford to buy anything and pay bills, so demand halts, profits drop, banks take huge losses and their businesses go tits up. Greed is such a disgusting thing. Sadly its damage will be echoed through Europe too.
Alpinestarhero
12-12-07, 11:59 AM
And us modest brits have a fair bit of dosh over those yanks. Who wants to go buy some property?
I got 20 quid in my wallet, thats $40
Matt
Kate Moss
12-12-07, 12:00 PM
is ther anything that you don't know about? Does your brain get regular news updates or do you just read the news pages a lot!
Oh dear the city boys will have to sell a couple of their ferrari's to make it through the winter :(
gettin2dizzy
12-12-07, 12:04 PM
is ther anything that you don't know about? Does your brain get regular news updates or do you just read the news pages a lot!
You know when you see 'Reuters' at the start of some articles? That's me ;)
I didnt work for you G2D ;)
gettin2dizzy
12-12-07, 12:10 PM
bah! I've got RS Feeds Intravenously ;)
LOL. Roll on the UK ressesion. I made a fortune DJ'ing during the last one. Everyone wanted a party to cheers themselves up.
SVeeedy Gonzales
12-12-07, 12:32 PM
And us modest brits have a fair bit of dosh over those yanks. Who wants to go buy some property?
I got 20 quid in my wallet, thats $40
Matt
Hang on, It'll be worth $80 in a few more weeks...
Seriously though, this is good for us?
Buying of $$$, keeping it then selling back to currency exhange places in a few years?
What about buying a property out there?
How can we take advantage of this? I want in on this making money lark....
Seriously though, this is good for us?
Buying of $$$, keeping it then selling back to currency exhange places in a few years?
What about buying a property out there?
How can we take advantage of this? I want in on this making money lark....
Yeah me too! But how?
The current exchange rate is about $2.04 = £1.00
gettin2dizzy
12-12-07, 01:24 PM
There's no real way to make money unfortunately, the markets are too tied together for us to get out scathe free. The Euro will suffer next, so get used to expensive living.
Buy lots of american oil, stockpile it somewhere in the middle east for 3 years = Make a fortune.
the_lone_wolf
12-12-07, 01:33 PM
Buy lots of american oil, stockpile it somewhere in the middle east for 3 years = Make a fortune.
or get invaded;)
Pedrosa
12-12-07, 01:51 PM
Anyone that takes amusement from the nervous U.S. economy is at best a fool and at worst ignorant of even the basics of the world economy.
America is THE biggest global market and if they begin to suffer then you can bet your life all other countries in the west will squirm as well.
Once again the underlying problem is to do with interest rates, the recent reduction in rates failed to give enough confidance and stock markets around the world today began trading with losses encountered.
It is not just the interest rates though but it is the complex way in which sub prime mortgages...read..... dodgy borrowers...packages have been sold on to all manner of banking organisations as a means of generating good returns for their own investors. All well and good if mr mortgage customer keeps up with his payments. However presently record numbers of people in the U.S.(often they are border line income households) are simply holding back their mortgage payments and using the cash on other needs.
The old phrase..."if America catches a cold, the U.K. sneezes!" has never been any truer.
Some analysts in the States are even warning of up to a 50% turn down in their economy in 2008. That would be devastating world wide.
Simple view:
Low interest rates = people buy houses=people buy all manner of consumer goods.
All of which keeps the world turning nicely.
High interest rates and spending grinds to a halt beyond necessities and from those without borrowings. They would though never be the "power spenders" in any country.
HTH a little.:)
MARKET DATA - 13:52 UK (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/overview/default.stm)
FTSE 100 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/3/default.stm)6514.9http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_down.gif-22.00Dax (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/18/default.stm)8023.9http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_up.gif14.50Cac 40 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/1/default.stm)5695.0http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_down.gif-29.81Dow Jones (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/2/default.stm)13432.8http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_down.gif-294.26Nasdaq (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/12122/default.stm)2652.4http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_down.gif-66.60S&P 500 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/11826/default.stm)1477.7http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_down.gif-38.31BBC Global 30 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/29954/default.stm)6087.2http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_down.gif-35.46http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/md_open.gif Marke****ch ticker (javascript:popUpPage('http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/ticker/markets/default.stm', 'toolbar=0,scrollbars=0,location=0,statusbar=0,men ubar=0,directories=no,resizable=0,width=450,height =507,left=300,top=100','marke****ch'))
Anyone that takes amusement from the nervous U.S. economy is at best a fool and at worst ignorant of even the basics of the world economy.
Im ignorent :smt039 And a fool it seems. :(
Kate Moss
12-12-07, 02:15 PM
Im ignorent :smt039 And a fool it seems. :(
:smt039
All i know is that when i've been to the USA, everything has always been far cheaper than england. I bought 3 pairs of branded trainers, 12 pairs of branded shortie socks, some branded t-shirts, all for $91.... For one pair of trainers it would cost me that in ££ :lol:
So for the prices we pay, yes, i think we are screwed over. And i would like to take advantage of the current US problems.
I mean, its not like they've caused their own problems really is it............
Pedrosa
12-12-07, 02:24 PM
Im ignorent :smt039 And a fool it seems. :(
Mate dont take it to heart,so am I!!!:D
Potential for a "nice little earner?"
Well it begins to look ever more that the Chinese are falsely controlling the value of their currency,(that is keeping it suppressed in order that they can continue to be mega competitive with their produced goods) A brave man might go out and stock pile a load of Chinese Yuan at the present commercial rate. Sit tight and then wait for the Chinese to be seen to remove the lid from their currency. Thus seeing the yuan gradually rise with you the guy holding a stash of yuan poised to sell on at a profit.
Good bets would be worth considering in the likes of telecom companies based in emerging countries like China,India and Russia. A massive growth which is still relatively untapped should deliver excellent returns.
Please note:
All comments are my own opinion and anyone considering any investment should both do research and seek professional advice.;)
Ceri JC
12-12-07, 02:37 PM
Please note:
All comments are my own opinion and anyone considering any investment should both do research and seek professional advice.;)
I think we could could up with a BASAT equivalent for Pedrosa's financial advice. PSFAT (Pedrosa's Sound Financial Advice Test). :)
Pedrosa
12-12-07, 03:06 PM
I think we could could up with a BASAT equivalent for Pedrosa's financial advice. PSFAT (Pedrosa's Sound Financial Advice Test). :)
:takeabow::p
Spiderman
12-12-07, 03:09 PM
Oh dear the city boys will have to sell a couple of their ferrari's to make it through the winter :(
Yeh, not quite tho eh?
City bankers to get £5 million in bonuses each for avoiding credit crunch
more here http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23427006-details/City+bankers+to+get+£5+million+in+bonuses+each+for +avoiding+credit+crunch/article.do if you're really interested.
Makes me sick personaly.:smt097
And anyway the Yanks have been engineering this reccession for a while.
So they can team up with Mexico and Canada to form a new economic union.
They have even agreed the currency's look and name.
Dont believe me, do a search for The Amero and prepare to be freaked out.
And i'm prepared for all the "conspiracy theory" remarks you'll all throw up but only time will tell eh?
Pedrosa
12-12-07, 04:52 PM
Yeh, not quite tho eh?
City bankers to get £5 million in bonuses each for avoiding credit crunch
more here http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23427006-details/City+bankers+to+get+£5+million+in+bonuses+each+for +avoiding+credit+crunch/article.do if you're really interested.
Makes me sick personaly.:smt097
And anyway the Yanks have been engineering this reccession for a while.
So they can team up with Mexico and Canada to form a new economic union.
They have even agreed the currency's look and name.
Dont believe me, do a search for The Amero and prepare to be freaked out.
And i'm prepared for all the "conspiracy theory" remarks you'll all throw up but only time will tell eh?
The top boys in the banking wortld who look after staggering amounts of money on behalf of investors. Their percentage is small compared with a car saleseman or estate agent,but yes the kitty on which it is calculated is a whole lot bigger! Again we are talking of the elite in their field here.
Any of us could have followed that career path should we have wanted to and so it is a little unfair to baulk at their earnings. The banking world is no safe haven for everyone and many job losses are to come very soon due to the present overall situation.
Amero? Ha that is all just mishcief making. Tough times have been encountered in the past without having to resort to such actions.
The banking world is no safe haven for everyone and many job losses are to come very soon due to the present overall situation.
I can see it now......
'Damn I just lost my job, I'm only 30.............I guess its time to retire on last years £10m bonus'
I know its not really like that, but you can imagine some of them thinking it.
My girlfriend is in the banking sector, fortunately she is very safe. I know some arnt so lucky. :(
gettin2dizzy
12-12-07, 05:01 PM
I'd rather work in a kitten slaughterhouse than work for a bank.
Pedrosa
12-12-07, 05:06 PM
I'd rather work in a kitten slaughterhouse than work for a bank.
Working as a cashier or in fact anything high street branch related then I agree. However private/commercial/investment banking is a whole different ball game.
Spiderman
12-12-07, 08:22 PM
The top boys in the banking wortld who look after staggering amounts of money on behalf of investors. Their percentage is small compared with a car saleseman or estate agent,but yes the kitty on which it is calculated is a whole lot bigger! Again we are talking of the elite in their field here.
Any of us could have followed that career path should we have wanted to and so it is a little unfair to baulk at their earnings. The banking world is no safe haven for everyone and many job losses are to come very soon due to the present overall situation.
Amero? Ha that is all just mishcief making. Tough times have been encountered in the past without having to resort to such actions.
There is a video out there from NBC or FOX news with an interview with Vincente Fox where he admits the Amero is going to be good for Mexicos economy etc blah blah so if he openly talks about ti i'd imagine its well advanced and soon to become a reality.
But like i say only time will tell but since so many big earners in the sports and modellling worlds have recently been demanding payment in Euros and not dollars it seems there might be some truth in the need for an Amero to counter the increasingly powerful Euro.
Pedrosa
12-12-07, 09:02 PM
There is a video out there from NBC or FOX news with an interview with Vincente Fox where he admits the Amero is going to be good for Mexicos economy etc blah blah so if he openly talks about ti i'd imagine its well advanced and soon to become a reality.
But like i say only time will tell but since so many big earners in the sports and modellling worlds have recently been demanding payment in Euros and not dollars it seems there might be some truth in the need for an Amero to counter the increasingly powerful Euro.
Ah Spidey my good man, there have been many a "name" that have attached themselves to one new idea or other but seen the idea turn to nought. The whole world revolves around using the U.S dollar and to force the change would be a long time coming as it will take more than a few disenfranchised individuals,huddled in darkened corners to pull this off.
A major motivation for such talk is more a recent tax law change than anything else,if I am reading between the lines correctly.
If though you had said that Hugo Chavez was championing the cause as well then I might have given it some credence,the fact being that he would love nothing better than to f*ck America and many who presently trade with them.
Mexico is a weak economy and so is their peso. The Canadian dollar has less value than that of the U.S. Therefore not exactly a grouping of 3 big hitters is it? Very different from when the Euro was conceived and introduced over many nations each with their own strengths.
A greater likelihood would be for Russia to join the euro and then the green back is for sure dead and buried.
Biker Biggles
12-12-07, 10:29 PM
In the slightly longer term the Amero makes sense.Poor Mexico to provide easy accessable cheap labour,and Canada which has some of the largest oil reserves anywhere,even if they are difficult and expensive to extract.When times get hard they could make a good siege economy out of that combination.
phil24_7
13-12-07, 03:29 AM
Right, I'm off to gather my money reserves and buy some yuan and some shares in developing countries telephone companies. I'll buy you all a beer when I make the big time!! :-D
gettin2dizzy
13-12-07, 07:52 AM
](*,)Right, I'm off to gather my money reserves and buy some yuan and some shares in developing countries telephone companies. I'll buy you all a beer when I make the big time!! :-D
hence the phrase:
you yaun some, you lose some
I'd rather work in a kitten slaughterhouse than work for a bank.
You cruel man ;) There is more to banking than branch work on £16k a year.
There nothing better than working from the head office and getting paid a rediculous amount of money for not doing alot of work and generally doing fun stuff like going to the pub for long lunches on expenses....or so the biatch of a girlfriend says. :(
gettin2dizzy
13-12-07, 09:01 AM
You cruel man ;) There is more to banking than branch work on £16k a year.
There nothing better than working from the head office and getting paid a rediculous amount of money for not doing alot of work and generally doing fun stuff like going to the pub for long lunches on expenses....or so the biatch of a girlfriend says. :(
I don't like the way banks make money flow in one direction only. These guys at the top do not deserve the huge money they earn; like accountants you shouldn't be awarded for being sneaky with money! Someone is going to have to pay in the end; and it sure isn't the rich. Think of life as a game of cards, no one likes the person that plays/cheats on the grey area in the rules. It ruins the fun for everyone.
Pedrosa
13-12-07, 11:48 AM
I don't like the way banks make money flow in one direction only. These guys at the top do not deserve the huge money they earn; like accountants you shouldn't be awarded for being sneaky with money! Someone is going to have to pay in the end; and it sure isn't the rich. Think of life as a game of cards, no one likes the person that plays/cheats on the grey area in the rules. It ruins the fun for everyone.
Ah but how wrong you are young sir. Much of the funds being handled by these high earners is that of corporations and high net worth individuals. It goes without saying that the investors have themselves no doubt made a tiny sum also. This must be so as the bank has also taken their own profit before handing on bonus's.
You are talking of funds containing billions of $$$ being at risk here and trust me the stress involved must at times be huge.
As I said in an earlier post, you also could be sharing in such windfalls if you had selected that career route.
But yesterday morning all 5 big national banks agreed on giving more money to the market to ensure that the "R" word wouldn't happen
has that gone down the drain?
Thats still going ahead yes.
I which case I would expect that things would get back on track and avoid the "R" situation.
Which if it happens we here in the UK that have mortgages will be in very deep poo!!!!
gettin2dizzy
13-12-07, 01:14 PM
Ah but how wrong you are young sir. Much of the funds being handled by these high earners is that of corporations and high net worth individuals. It goes without saying that the investors have themselves no doubt made a tiny sum also. This must be so as the bank has also taken their own profit before handing on bonus's.
You are talking of funds containing billions of $$$ being at risk here and trust me the stress involved must at times be huge.
As I said in an earlier post, you also could be sharing in such windfalls if you had selected that career route.
Yes but the bank works on a debt-creating business. Whilst money may move around within that company that's a tiny distribution of huge wealth in the big picture whilst the amount of debt owed in the rest of society grows. I may be sounding like a guardian reading lefty but it's the immense wealth I detest. The type of person who pays £5000/month in parking fines for living in London, the type whos Oxbridge education gave them a pass to mega-richdom. It is hard work, it is stressful, but it's relative. Worrying about a £5million bonus is somewhat ridiculous. All mega-wealth does is fuel the greed of the rest of the country.... oh and Paris Hilton.
Yes but the bank works on a debt-creating business. Whilst money may move around within that company that's a tiny distribution of huge wealth in the big picture whilst the amount of debt owed in the rest of society grows. I may be sounding like a guardian reading lefty but it's the immense wealth I detest. The type of person who pays £5000/month in parking fines for living in London, the type whos Oxbridge education gave them a pass to mega-richdom. It is hard work, it is stressful, but it's relative. Worrying about a £5million bonus is somewhat ridiculous. All mega-wealth does is fuel the greed of the rest of the country.... oh and Paris Hilton.
It might just be me BUT I don't hate or dislike these people! Frankly they way I see it is that they made some moves in their lives that have met great success!!!
So I say to myself if you fancy that type of life with all that major wealth then work harder and think harder to find a way of achieving that.
Now greed etc etc I wouldn't talk about any of those things in a country that will pay you benefits if you are a DJ and have strained your finger!!!
Don't moan about people being rich! Work and find a way to become rich as well!
Pedrosa
14-12-07, 12:10 PM
It might just be me BUT I don't hate or dislike these people! Frankly they way I see it is that they made some moves in their lives that have met great success!!!
So I say to myself if you fancy that type of life with all that major wealth then work harder and think harder to find a way of achieving that.
Now greed etc etc I wouldn't talk about any of those things in a country that will pay you benefits if you are a DJ and have strained your finger!!!
Don't moan about people being rich! Work and find a way to become rich as well!
Well said fella. It is all about setting individual goals and shooting for them,
Well said fella. It is all about setting individual goals and shooting for them,
YAY!!!!!!!! I'm not a lunatic :D
gettin2dizzy
15-12-07, 09:55 AM
It might just be me BUT I don't hate or dislike these people! Frankly they way I see it is that they made some moves in their lives that have met great success!!!
So I say to myself if you fancy that type of life with all that major wealth then work harder and think harder to find a way of achieving that.
Now greed etc etc I wouldn't talk about any of those things in a country that will pay you benefits if you are a DJ and have strained your finger!!!
Don't moan about people being rich! Work and find a way to become rich as well!
Having a sweep at all bankers would be wrong obviously, but I think it's a dishonest industry. They understand money very very well and use this to their advantage to play on the idiocy of the nation. You never see a poor banker ;)
Banks 'prey on customers in debt'
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41346000/jpg/_41346500_banks203.jpg Some people are agreeing to make payments they cannot afford
Banks are being accused of pressurising customers who have financial problems to take out expensive loans to try to ease their debts, the BBC has learned. Banks are repeatedly telephoning customers to try to get them to take out costly loans, against the advice of debt charities.
Citizens Advice said it had received many complaints about the increasingly aggressive tactics being used.
Banks say interest rate charges are up to them.
yorkie_chris
15-12-07, 10:01 AM
Can't really blame them for it. See all the loan adverts on TV "we even had enough left for a holiday" etc. etc. etc. People are stupid enough to live beyond their means then I don't blame banks for making profit out of it.
I would.
To purchase over priced houses, cars, bikes and to fund business we all rely on capital supplied by banks. They have inserted the need to borrow into all walks of life. Whatever happened to saving up before spending. If the crash in the States affects us, which it will, then who can we blame?
The banks have engineered our dependency on them and yet can walk away Scott free when they screw it up. (Northern Rock)
Why is it that credit is practically mandatory in order to go about our daily lives. It was not always like that surely.
Pedrosa
15-12-07, 07:43 PM
Having a sweep at all bankers would be wrong obviously, but I think it's a dishonest industry. They understand money very very well and use this to their advantage to play on the idiocy of the nation. You never see a poor banker ;)
Fella you really do have a 1 dimensional view of banks. There are many of their practices carried out against the "high street" customer that I also frown upon strongly.
There is though a far more interesting side to banks which involves in particular the money markets.Banks can generate vast profits by getting their strategy correct and for those customers that have invested with them the returns are eye popping. I simplify it very much here as in truth there are many ways in which high yields can be gained.
One does not need to be a high net worth individual to get on board either, a series of protocols and instruments are required and anyone can join the game.
gettin2dizzy
15-12-07, 08:18 PM
Fella you really do have a 1 dimensional view of banks. There are many of their practices carried out against the "high street" customer that I also frown upon strongly.
There is though a far more interesting side to banks which involves in particular the money markets.Banks can generate vast profits by getting their strategy correct and for those customers that have invested with them the returns are eye popping. I simplify it very much here as in truth there are many ways in which high yields can be gained.
One does not need to be a high net worth individual to get on board either, a series of protocols and instruments are required and anyone can join the game.
Like people who work in advertising? ;) So the banks lend us money; it's as selfless a deed as Tesco 'relieving' me of £50 a week. It's not in their interest to look after my finances, but to merely make sure that it goes in their direction.
Nothing can justify the huge amount of money that passes from hand to hand to fund the lavish lifestyles of the tax dodging mega-wealthy and Oxbridge 'fag'* bankers. I do think people deserve the success they earn, buy your second Porsche by all means; but success by being the bully with all the money isn't justified.
*no I didn't mean gay.
Pedrosa
15-12-07, 11:57 PM
Like people who work in advertising? ;) So the banks lend us money; it's as selfless a deed as Tesco 'relieving' me of £50 a week. It's not in their interest to look after my finances, but to merely make sure that it goes in their direction.
Nothing can justify the huge amount of money that passes from hand to hand to fund the lavish lifestyles of the tax dodging mega-wealthy and Oxbridge 'fag'* bankers. I do think people deserve the success they earn, buy your second Porsche by all means; but success by being the bully with all the money isn't justified.
*no I didn't mean gay.
Rather than your socialist outlook cloud your mind on this issue maybe just consider a few small points....
How many people have the cash in hand to purchase a home? Ah not many right? So a bank can be useful even to joe public in those situations?
The business that has a proven model which ideally should be moved on to the next level in order to both create and meet a bigger market. Is their progress expected to wait until they have liquid funds to drive it forward? No way, they approach banks.
Until you can accept the vital role that the banking world plays then you are not even seeing a fraction of the picture and I really do mean that in all seriousness.
With the money at stake and it's likely impact on all levels of society should things go wrong, then I do feel there is full justification in the remuneration of the top players. Dont forget they only get those whopping bonus's when they get it right.If they ever fail they will be out of a job with no hope of continuing with anyone else.
(It might appear that I have some particular reason for defending the people that you object to, I dont tbh but just maybe I have a fuller grasp of the situation.....maybe.)
Early redemption fees...
How unfair are they.
When I worked for Halifax I used to spend much of my time defending them. I'm ashamed now to say that I never lost a case. And that wasn't because they were fair, it was because punters didn't know the right questions to ask. If they had, it would have been interesting.
donniej
16-12-07, 01:22 AM
I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. Gas here is still "only" $3 per gallon, you can find a decent place to live for $600 per month and a chocolate bar is less than $1.
Yes, George Bush has hosed us, but things aren't too bad (yet).
Pedrosa
16-12-07, 07:00 AM
High street banking.
Private banking.
Commercial banking.
Different strokes apply.
gettin2dizzy
16-12-07, 09:00 PM
Rather than your socialist outlook cloud your mind on this issue maybe just consider a few small points....
To be a socialist carries all the wrong connotations nowadays. The grasp of politics known by most is taken straight out of the tabloids regurgitated in a form that requires no previous knowledge to express an apparent 'opinion'*. For proof you only need to ask a group of people their opinion on a musical artist before you hear the same expressions repeated straight from X-factor under the guise of their 'opinion' (I find Jazz particularly annoying in that respect, but jazz is for the bearded and those that like carpentry). But to say an outlook that encourages the active shaping of community life to be imperative to everyone contributing it is a view that can 'cloud' your judgment is an interesting stance. I'm not a socialist by my own definition but can appreciate some of the excellent principles which sadly will not ever be put in to practice.
How many people have the cash in hand to purchase a home? Ah not many right? So a bank can be useful even to joe public in those situations?
The business that has a proven model which ideally should be moved on to the next level in order to both create and meet a bigger market. Is their progress expected to wait until they have liquid funds to drive it forward? No way, they approach banks.
Numerous arguments could be made as to how we ended up in a situation where property prices do not reflect the situation of the majority of the population. It could be suggested that the availability of loans, mortgages, call it what you like; has lead to the dependence we now have on the banks. It could also be argued that the 'yuppie' culture brought about by bank workers on their huge bonuses in the 80s was the turning point in the greed culture now reflected so commonly throughout the UK. I don't agree with either of those statements 100% but I certainly think it has a part to play in it all. Anyway, I think you could happily write a thesis on that and still struggle to come to a conclusion.
As for business expansion there are many business that expand under their own financial support and others that seek financial support by backers who can bring more than just money to the table, and that is a far greater proposition than a high interest loan.
Until you can accept the vital role that the banking world plays then you are not even seeing a fraction of the picture and I really do mean that in all seriousness.
I understand fully the vital role banks play in our society, but many things in life are vital yet not something I need to admire. The control the banks have over our quality of life day in, day out is utterly terrifying. My gripe is over this power, the power that leaves the government giving special treatment to these high earners or men with great influence. The majority of the public play the game; they go to work, earn a modest wage, pay their taxes where they are due and enjoy life where they can. A small population of the country enjoy a different lifestyle which can only be supported by keeping the public needing 'more' whether more be money, material possessions, a roof over you head, or even just in search of happiness.
With the money at stake and it's likely impact on all levels of society should things go wrong, then I do feel there is full justification in the remuneration of the top players. Dont forget they only get those whopping bonus's when they get it right.If they ever fail they will be out of a job with no hope of continuing with anyone else.
Entirely, it's a job where you do need to be on your toes at all times; not one I would like to be in myself. Being **** on at every moment by your colleagues can't be a pleasant experience...but I reckon they cope alright ;)
(It might appear that I have some particular reason for defending the people that you object to, I dont tbh but just maybe I have a fuller grasp of the situation.....maybe.)
You're an interesting man Pedrosa, I enjoy reading your posts. Unlike myself who rushes in to writing letting the brain catch up sometime later; your posts are always well thought out and written far more eloquently than my own. I don't doubt for a minute your grasp on this issue (*or include you in the political-tabloid brigade in case you were wondering ;)) or indeed a lot of issues, but I still stand in support of my initial statement.
I'm all in support of a world where success is recognised and rewarded and being in a position of having no money it's going to be a lot easier to find fault with those who have cash coming out of their ears for 'seemingly' nothing.
I'd be lying if I said there wasn't part jealously at the huge wages these guys get when I see them being so frivolent with their money but there's also a part of me that feels utter sorrow for them that they have completely missed the point of life, that their aggressive dog-eat-dog lifestyle leaves them thinking that money is the answer to their very sequestered lives. But perhaps my youth is only a reflection of not having the drive beaten out of me for the desire to live in a world where personal gain isn't measured against others and that somehow we all can support each other rather than seek every chance to surmount you peers.
Pedrosa
17-12-07, 08:17 AM
G2D...What a thoroughly enjoyable read your last post was my friend. believe it or not I have totally understood where you have been coming from and have more empathy with your view than you might imagine.
I too am a strong believer in the phrase....."a country's strength is it's people" and agree with more benfitting from the nice things in life,but maybe like you I am an idealist who would be shouted down as "a commie!"
The Yuppy era was all fuelled by the relaxation of credit rules as championed by a certain blue party that were in government. They did some good, for some people during their time in power. But for me their legacy was to create a generation a self centred trinket gatherers such as we had never seen before.
The banks of course had to follow the guide line set by the BOE and loans and mortgages were flying out of the window as rates were rather attractive. Until around 1986 when they hit a peak of around 13%.....now that hurt. But remember bank rates are used as an economica tool to try and either encourage or curb certain trends, they are not played about with by the banks autonomously to try and screw people over when it pleases them.
For Joe Publñic banks are the arses who hit you with a 30 quid fine for a 5 pound overdraw and other such petty penalties and I again understand why the average man in the street would object to that most strongly.
Additional point....
The 80's also saw the beginning of a new aspect in the property market. Due to many companies relocating from London areas, their staff with London wages were able to buy a nice detached house elsewhere in the country for the same price that 1 bed flat would have been in London. This then placed false pressure on limited housing stock and began a surge in prices that has never really ever tailed off since. There have been a few "stagnant" periods but the damage had been done and there was never going to be any going back.
gettin2dizzy
17-12-07, 08:51 AM
G2D...What a thoroughly enjoyable read your last post was my friend. believe it or not I have totally understood where you have been coming from and have more empathy with your view than you might imagine.
I too am a strong believer in the phrase....."a country's strength is it's people" and agree with more benfitting from the nice things in life,but maybe like you I am an idealist who would be shouted down as "a commie!"
The Yuppy era was all fuelled by the relaxation of credit rules as championed by a certain blue party that were in government. They did some good, for some people during their time in power. But for me their legacy was to create a generation a self centred trinket gatherers such as we had never seen before.
The banks of course had to follow the guide line set by the BOE and loans and mortgages were flying out of the window as rates were rather attractive. Until around 1986 when they hit a peak of around 13%.....now that hurt. But remember bank rates are used as an economica tool to try and either encourage or curb certain trends, they are not played about with by the banks autonomously to try and screw people over when it pleases them.
For Joe Publñic banks are the arses who hit you with a 30 quid fine for a 5 pound overdraw and other such petty penalties and I again understand why the average man in the street would object to that most strongly.
Additional point....
The 80's also saw the beginning of a new aspect in the property market. Due to many companies relocating from London areas, their staff with London wages were able to buy a nice detached house elsewhere in the country for the same price that 1 bed flat would have been in London. This then placed false pressure on limited housing stock and began a surge in prices that has never really ever tailed off since. There have been a few "stagnant" periods but the damage had been done and there was never going to be any going back.
:smt023
The 80s also brought Motley Crue however so 13% was almost justified ;)
"self centred trinket gatherers" :lol:
gettin2dizzy
22-01-08, 09:42 PM
b-bam!
I hope no one is thinking of any big-spending plans at the moment. I'd hold on to what you've got; things could get rocky.
Funny this is related to the oil crash I've been warning y'all about.
$100 oil an all that...
First thing I did when the markets crashed, filled the van with diesel and 40 litres of petrol in jerrycans for the SV...
http://www.jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/
gettin2dizzy
23-01-08, 08:12 AM
Funny this is related to the oil crash I've been warning y'all about.
$100 oil an all that...
First thing I did when the markets crashed, filled the van with diesel and 40 litres of petrol in jerrycans for the SV...
http://www.jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/
Access denied :(
Yeah... it's going to be interesting to see how this one turns out. An economy reliant on public spending and borrowing is just impossible to maintain. I'm impressed they've let it go on so long.
The website is called clusterf*ck nation so maybe that's why you can't see it at work, perfectly safe apart from the occasional expletive.
timwilky
23-01-08, 10:13 AM
I work for a global company. Our internal currency is the Euro, hopefully recent currency fluctuations might mean it looks like the UK is the cheaper part of Europe for us to work and the French will stop nicking all our work.
However, we do a few hundred million dollars of business a year with customers around the world who pay in dollars or linked to. If the dollar goes silly devil, then we suffer.
My business is in large infrastructure projects. (Power Stations, Rail). These are the first to be cancelled in the event of economic downturns. I just hope this is nipped in the bud quickly, confidence and stability return.
gettin2dizzy
17-03-08, 06:12 PM
....it looks imminent. I think I'll be trying to clear my debts before the *ankers start knocking.
Interesting the BBC are giving more air-time to the Mills/McCartney embarrassment.
Cash crisis gets deeper
The FTSE 100 closed 217.3 points down, or around 4%, refelecting the major falls elsewhere.
Bank stocks, including Barclays, Alliance & Leicester, Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS were among the worst affected.
Japan's Nikkei stock index had earlier dropped by almost 4%, while Hong Kong's Hang Seng lost a similar amount.
The Bank of England pumped an extra ?5bn into the money markets to ease a freeze in lending between banks and boost the economy.
It was the BoE's first such emergency operation since the start of the credit crunch six months ago.
JPMorgan Chase is buying its big rival for just ?1 a share - a small fraction of its previous value.
The deal values Bear Stearns, one of those at the centre of the US mortgage crisis, at about ?116m.
Sky News Business Editor Michael Wilson said the worrying aspect of the whole affair is that Bear Stearns' debts were supposedly "good" ones and not from the risky sub-prime market.
He pointed out that "for better or worse" the bank had not been allowed to become the US version of Northern Rock.
The news came as the Federal Reserve cut its lending rate to banks to 3.25% from 3.50%, and created a new lending facility for big investment banks.
Under the terms of the deal, the Fed will fund up to $30bn of Bear Stearns's less liquid assets.
Meanwhile, the prices of both oil and gold hit new records, with investors putting their money into commodities to keep it safer.
Oil rose to $111.8 a barrel before dropping back slightly, while gold touched $1,030 an ounce.
http://img.timeinc.net//time/cartoons/20080307/cartoons_06.jpg
slark01
17-03-08, 07:31 PM
The situation in the US has been coming for a few years, I now have no debts and am in the final processes of selling the house so that i'm able to rent, the sole reason for this is because of what is happening in the financial world. I have no intentions of being in total financial strife when the sh*t hits the fan, especially now the wife has just been made redundant.
I strongly believe that the vast majority of people including myself are greedy, it's part of being human. Banks, companies and individuals take advantage of this all the time and in the end we are all to blame. If you wasn't greedy you would not want most of the things you have, remember that!
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