K5 SVS No ignition

[fizzwheel]

Right. Liz's bike popped its main fuse on the way home from work a week or so ago. She changed the main fuse herself at the side of the road after the RAC turned up to "Recover" her home, another story..

Bike ran fine for the rest of the run home ( 60 miles or so ) then has been sat in the garage for two weeks due to the weather.

I've had the bike out this afternoon to put the side panels back on, check oil, etc etc as she wanted to take it to work tomorrow.

Flicked ignition on to put bike back into garage and the thing is dead. No headlights, nothing on the dash, no fuel pump prime whizz noises. Nowt.

I've checked the main fuse and the 10amp ignition fuse and they are fine. I've checked the battery terminals and everything is nicely done up tight.

I've got the bike on the Optimate now so I can rule out whether its simply and flat as a pancake battery.

Anything else I need to check ? I'm also concerned about why it blew its main 30amp fuse in the first place. I'm guessing rubbing cables on the subframe somwhere is the most likely possible cause and could also be related to the problem we have now.

The hotgrips which are direct wired to the battery have power.

Thoughts, advice or ridicule welcome

Cheers

Fizz

[fizzwheel]

Panic ye not.

Been on the optimate for a couple of hours, turn on ignition now and the headlights glow like a lit cigarette end. So flat battery at fault I think.

I'll leave it on the optimate.

[andyb]

Typical woman, ride the thing then let the man sort everything else out!!! Glad you've sorted it though. :)

[yorkie_chris]

Yes, but...

If the live had shorted to earth then this could have popped the fuse, and this is where your battery has drained to while its been sat.

I'd check the wiring for shorts all the same.

Chris

[caz650s]

Hi Fizz ,

I hope that the Rac did not let Liz down ... as you know I am a Patrol and I am aware that some of my colleagues get in a bit of a fright when they have to attend a bike and eer on the side of caution and get them recovered home or to the bike shop .

Whatever happened ....sorry

Caz.

[fizzwheel]

I'd check the wiring for shorts all the same.

I had a quick poke around in the usual places and I cant see anything obvious, so if it is a short its hidden away.

Of course its entirely possible that the hot grips got left on and as they are direct fed of the battery thats whats flattened it.

[fizzwheel]

Hi Fizz ,

I hope that the Rac did not let Liz down ... as you know I am a Patrol and I am aware that some of my colleagues get in a bit of a fright when they have to attend a bike and eer on the side of caution and get them recovered home or to the bike shop .

Whatever happened ....sorry

Caz.

Yes they did.

3 hours to get to a stranded female at the side of the road. When they did turn up they turned up with a low loader and no tools and were going to recover her home.

Liz got the driver to shine the spot light onto the bike and she changed the main fuse herself. He said he had been told by control to recover her and not bother attempting to fix the bike.

It wasnt an RAC patrol it was a local guy working on behalf of the RAC.

Not the best result, but these things happen I guess. No harm done and she got home eventually.

[andyb]

Yes they did.

3 hours to get to a stranded female at the side of the road. When they did turn up they turned up with a low loader and no tools and were going to recover her home.

Liz got the driver to shine the spot light onto the bike and she changed the main fuse herself. He said he had been told by control to recover her and not bother attempting to fix the bike.

It wasnt an RAC patrol it was a local guy working on behalf of the RAC.

Not the best result, but these things happen I guess. No harm done and she got home eventually.

Thats really bad 3 HOURS!!!, doesn't really give me much faith in them!

[Lozzo]

Over the years I've had breakdown cover from Green Flag, RAC and AA, plus the network of independents that Carole Nash sometimes use. None of them has ever taken more than 45 minutes to get to me, but the last lot that came out (Independants from North Walsham in Norfolk) took 30 minutes to send one bloke out with a low-loader to recover my lightly crashed Bandit 600.

When he arrived the cops (both of whom were bikers themselves) were still checking it over and refused to let him drag it up the low loader with a winch on its good side, it was on the centre stand when he got to it. He wouldn't turn it over once it was on its side and said "it's f*cked anyway, what does it matter" - actually, it only cost me 20 quid and a new set of suspension dogbones to put it back on the road with no trace of damage. God knows how much damage he'd have done to the undamaged side dragging it up the load bed and on the 130 mile trip back here.

Bless the coppers, they called another company and arranged for them to recover it back to Bedford with a specialist vehicle, with Auntie Carole's go ahead. Naturally I told Carole Nash that I wasn't happy about the way their recovery firm dealt with it.

[jambo]

Wire the hot grips in through a relay so they can't be on with the ignition off.

I've not yet needed recovery for myself, but 4 hours waiting in Brighton with Raf once meant I got home to see the dawn and go to bed. Thank God that was summer....

Jambo

[andyb]

If you do want them wired into the ignition relay I'm quite happy to do it for you Fizz/Liz if you need any help (which I very much doubt! :) )

[diamond]

I might pick your brains Wednesday night if thats ok?

[andyb]

I might pick your brains Wednesday night if thats ok?

Yep no probs, it's a piece of p**s to do though! Thanks for defending my honour!!!!!!!!!:-D:-D:cool:

[Ceri JC]

I've had the same problem with my K4. Should there be a problem attaching the heated grips into a sidelight (as this will not be on if the ignition is off, unless the parking light is on anyway, in which case you'll wind up with a flat battery in any event)?

[yorkie_chris]

Why would you go for the sidelight?

This strategy would worry me, the wiring is designed for the low draw of the odd bulb and the horn, not grips.

I went for the main switched live, with an inline fuse.

[phil24_7]

I think he means use the side light as the "on" switch for the relay with the main power coming direct from the battery.

[yorkie_chris]

Ahhh thats a whole different kettle of fish, I'll shush :-#

[Ceri JC]

Phil and yorkie Chris: Nope, being an electrical numpty, I did just put them on the sidelight in parallel. The oxford heated grips I have already have a 10 amp fuse built into the wiring them of them which I (quite possibly wrongly) assumed would blow first if there was a problem. When you say on the main switched live, where should I actually connect into the loom? TIA chaps.

[phil24_7]

Sorry Yorkie, I'll shush!!

[phil24_7]

Ceri. You can still take a feed from the lights, then connect this to the switched side of an automotive relay, then take the main power direct from the battery.

Someone will be along shortly to better explain and tell you what parts to get.

[Ceri JC]

I (or rather, the AA man) found the problem; it seems I knocked one of the connectors of the LHS switchgear loose whilst fitting the grips and it was this that was causing the problem. The bike is running fine now, although I have left the LHS sidelight (and hence heated grips) disconnected, till I have a better idea of how the grips should be wied in. Ta for the suggestions/warning re: the wiring.

[jambo]

If you wire them direct into the ignition, and the current draw blows a bit of wiring the ignition has now gone, and the bike is dead.... Using a relay and the wiring for the side lights or similar to enable it, means even if something does go wrong, it's less of an issue. Plus the relay should stop any major current draw along cables that were not designed for it anyway...

[Ceri JC]

If you wire them direct into the ignition, and the current draw blows a bit of wiring the ignition has now gone, and the bike is dead.... Using a relay and the wiring for the side lights or similar to enable it, means even if something does go wrong, it's less of an issue. Plus the relay should stop any major current draw along cables that were not designed for it anyway...

That was part of the reason I thought wiring it into the sidelight was a good idea; if anything it blew, it was amongst the most 'expendable' of electronics on the bike. Apologies if I'm misinterpreting the above, are you saying I could put a suitable relay in where the existing parallel join in to the sidelight is and then connect the heated grips wiring to the 'amplified' (don't know what the proper term is) side of the relay?

(sorry for what is probably a v. simple/stupid question; you really need to spell electrical things out to me like you're talking to a mental defective :()

[yorkie_chris]

OK

A relay is a switch, which is controlled by a small current.

A basic one has 4 contacts, 2 of those are the coil contacts, the other 2 are the switched contacts.

So you want the coil contacts to be wired in parallel with the sidelights.

Then the switched contacts you want a live feed to it direct from the battery, then to the live on the grips, earth the grips to the battery -ve or frame.

What will happen then is when the sidelights have power, a very small extra current will energise the relay and give the grips their feed from the battery.
For all intents and purposes no extra load on the loom.

[Ceri JC]

OK

A relay is a switch, which is controlled by a small current.

A basic one has 4 contacts, 2 of those are the coil contacts, the other 2 are the switched contacts.

So you want the coil contacts to be wired in parallel with the sidelights.

Then the switched contacts you want a live feed to it direct from the battery, then to the live on the grips, earth the grips to the battery -ve or frame.

What will happen then is when the sidelights have power, a very small extra current will energise the relay and give the grips their feed from the battery.
For all intents and purposes no extra load on the loom.

Ta, I think that makes sense to me. I shall do it that way. Anyone got any recommendations on a suitable relay I can buy online/somewhere common like maplins/halfords/etc?

Thanks ever so much for your patience/explanation chaps. :)

[yorkie_chris]

Go get one from a scrapyard IMO, find an old motor, pick something out of the fusebox that isn't a fuse. It's more than likely to work.

[phil24_7]

Just go maplins or kevin cooper and get an automotive relay (preferably waterproof), any difficulties, tell em what it's for and they should be able to sort you out.