View Full Version : One Compersion Then Clink :(
OK first things first
99 curvey stock apart from can and cosmetics.
Went out this morning as have day off on christmas eve went to start the bike and then .........
One compression stroke then clink now will not even turn over .
Check that is out of gear and that the cut out switch: all ok .
checked the voltage of the batery 11.47 with load of starter and just below 12 with out .
engin is not rotating any help please.
It sounds mechanical but as am an electrical engineer not to good with nuts and bolts......
I have a feeling its going to be expensive. IE engin rebuild if so will be ****ed you pay your money and take your chances..... :(:(:(:(:(
Any help would be GREATLY apreciated
Sorry havent had time to spell check as have the raving hump.
Charge battery, should be about 13 volt or so.
yorkie_chris
24-12-07, 01:33 PM
Stick it in 6th, try turn it over by pushing the bike forward, if it feels normal then charge the battery.
Mine will start down to about 11.5v, less than that it won't crank.
Charge battery, should be about 13 volt or so.
Cheers for that matey its defently not the battery as have stuck a dummy on load and it passed. I have also used a tong testers around the + cable on the feed to the starter motor.
The motor hasnt flashed over and seems to be free
cheers though
That battery voltage is way too low at 11.47 Volts
Alpinestarhero
24-12-07, 01:46 PM
Yea, have a go with charging - I had a similar problem when my voltage regulator-rectifier died
Matt
clutch or sidestand switch?
ok i just replaced battery still doing the same useing a car battery with leads to old battery
will record sound so you can hear
Alpinestarhero
24-12-07, 02:04 PM
Hovis could be right, switches might have frazzled out
Have you checked no wires have chaffed?
Matt
Do the lights dim when you try to start? If not then the starter isn't trying to turn the engine - that would mean one of the ignition circuit cutout switches(sidestand/clutch) is faulty or the starter is faulty. Have you tried the previous suggestion about pushing the bike in 6th to check that the engine isn't seized?
yep lights all dim and with new battery voltage still drops
is there inspection hatches for cam chain ?
?
yes engin moves then it gets to a point and rear wheel locks up
If you can partially rotate the engine then the pistons are not seized. If the timing chain has broken then you will probably have bent a valve(s) so that it sticks down. Seems unlikely that a timing chain would have broken though. mmm ????
Best to remove the spark plugs when checking for smooth rotation.
its hard to try to diagnose a problem over the net, but i think you might be getting abit carried away, with seized engine etc, its probaly somthing more simple
did you check the clutch, sidstand & kill switch
simon27
24-12-07, 03:28 PM
If the bike was running ok last time it was used then I'd suggest engine wise you'll be fine. You've checked/charged/replaced battery and no joy :smt013
I'd look at the -ve connections (especially any that go to chassis) as well as +ve, may be corroded, or even a defective motor/solenoid :confused:
HTH.
dont know am at whits end looks like it will be a job for a mechanic. Dont fancy the idea of droping the engin out.
removed forward and rear spark plug still not turning over passed a certain point. I dont fancy pulling off the rocker covers. Well not till after christmas anyways. Wife will kill me. Buy the looks of things 3 alan bolts.
its hard to try to diagnose a problem over the net, but i think you might be getting abit carried away, with seized engine etc, its probaly somthing more simple
did you check the clutch, sidstand & kill switch
If Big_G is correct in stating that the engine rotates partially and then blocks then it is being stopped by something mechanical and not by any electrical fault. That is not being carried away it's just plain logic.
I have checked the Starter motor and checked the current being pulled by it via a tong tester. ( clamp meter ) about 10 amps checked the return wires and belled out wire form soleniod to motor. Also belled out return wire to chasie this is at about 1.25 of ohms.
Can you explain in more detail what happens.
For example. When you hit the starter button, does anything happen at all :?: Does the starter solenoid click like it should :?:
For your information.
Battery Voltage State of Charge
12.60+ 100%
12.50 90%
12.42 80%
12.32 70%
12.20 60%
12.06 50%
11.90 40%
11.75 30%
11.58 20%
As you can see, 11.5 Volts is just about a flat battery. Even jumping from a car battery is possibly not going to work.
Have you actually charged the battery again or just jumped from the car battery :?:
The more explanation you can give will help everyone diagnose the fault. I doubt your problem is unique and will more than likely already have been covered and diagnosed before on this forum. Information is the key.
phil24_7
24-12-07, 07:12 PM
I'd guess battery or regulator/rectifier.
I'd guess battery or regulator/rectifier.
Did you actually read and understand what Big_G has described?
Something is physically blocking the engine from turning a full cycle. What the hell has battery or regulator got to do with that?
On the other hand Big_G may be not describing it as it is; In which case all the advice about batteries and cut out switches might be valid. I chose to believe him because it's Christmas.
Alpinestarhero
24-12-07, 08:34 PM
Did you actually read and understand what Big_G has described?
Something is physically blocking the engine from turning a full cycle. What the hell has battery or regulator got to do with that?
On the other hand Big_G may be not describing it as it is; In which case all the advice about batteries and cut out switches might be valid. I chose to believe him because it's Christmas.
Calm down; he also descrived a very low voltage for his battery, which may be due to a fault regulator-rectifier. The first compression of the engine was all the battery had left to turn the engine over with.
Matt
Calm down; he also descrived a very low voltage for his battery, which may be due to a fault regulator-rectifier. The first compression of the engine was all the battery had left to turn the engine over with.
Matt
I am very calm, which is surprising considering. The wasted battery is prob due to trying to turn the engine past the block a few times. Just read what he has posted. The most pertinent detail is that the engine will not be rotated manually past a certain point. IE - something is PHYSICALLY stopping it. A flat battery won't do that and neither will any cut out switches. Should he keep charging up his battery and winding the engine's reciprocating gear into the blockage again and again?
Someone complained on the org a while back about people posting advice - I think it was Big Ape, How true that post was.
Of course if it is not as Big_G posted then all that I have suggested does not apply. I'm just going on the reported symptoms.
Anyway I gotta wrap the kids' last prezzies. Happy Christmas. I hope you get it sorted Big_G.
phil24_7
24-12-07, 10:58 PM
I was under the impression that you couldn't push a vehicle when in gear, even if it is sixth. He also said that it turned once but now does nothing, there are several people here who have had similar symptoms and it has been the reg/rect or battery at fault. Why shouldn't these things be double checked?
The SV engne is very robust and doesn't fail that often, but how about he rule outs the cheaper and easier things to fix first before he strips down the engine or replaces it??
When you highlight things in bold to try and make your point it makes you sound very rude, obnoxious and arrogant as well as patronising. I'n NOT a child and your NOT my father/teacher/arresting officer so take it easy and rationalise rather than patronise, we're only offering our help/advice as you are.
Cheers for coming to my aid Matt but I don't think he listens!!
yorkie_chris
24-12-07, 11:04 PM
I was under the impression that you couldn't push a vehicle when in gear, even if it is sixth.
You can feel compression, and it will creep past it.
He's taken the plugs out which means there's no compression there to push against, it should roll forwards in any gear with the plugs out.
I think somethings gone wrong thats worse than electrics, but I'm an optimistic sod, and thats why I suggested pushing it in 6th to check for siezure/interference in the first place.
I agree about ejohnh sounding miserable, bah humbug, just think, the carols and stuff will be over soon!
I was under the impression that you couldn't push a vehicle when in gear, even if it is sixth. He also said that it turned once but now does nothing, there are several people here who have had similar symptoms and it has been the reg/rect or battery at fault. Why shouldn't these things be double checked?
The SV engne is very robust and doesn't fail that often, but how about he rule outs the cheaper and easier things to fix first before he strips down the engine or replaces it??
When you highlight things in bold to try and make your point it makes you sound very rude, obnoxious and arrogant as well as patronising. I'n NOT a child and your NOT my father/teacher/arresting officer so take it easy and rationalise rather than patronise, we're only offering our help/advice as you are.
Cheers for coming to my aid Matt but I don't think he listens!!
I am not patronising at all. If you take the plugs out you can easily turn the engine in 6th. From your words you need to calm down. I listen. Maybe you should too
Right, everyone stop arguing. Christ, help the poor bloke out and stop sniping.
Turning the engine over by hand using the rear wheel is bloody hard work, and you may be mistaken for thinking its stuck when it may not be.
Now, I am not engineer by any means, but I have a degree and my masters in blowing up engines. Yes, that is two times. I've been lucky enough to have the help of some good friends to help, supervise, yell and poke me with sticks when we replaced the engines on my bikes. (This is becoming a habit for me, isn't it?)
What I would do if i wanted to check that my engine rotated is remove the large hex plug on the generator cover.
(http://www.bluepoof.com/motorcycles/howto/svs_valves/pics/?image=373_7356.JPG)
You can then turn the engine over using a ratchet, (http://www.bluepoof.com/motorcycles/howto/svs_valves/pics/?image=373_7362.JPG) (I *think* you can do this in neutral, but i really cant remember.)
If your having problems do this, as suggested before remove the spark plugs and then try again.
This will tell you if your engine turns over, then its not ceased, so as others suggest check your electrics.
The service manual for the SV engine is online, so reference that, take it slowly. Anything doesn't feel right or your unsure stop. Also check the direction of rotation, as they are not my photos and the arrows may or may not be incorrect!
If you need a hand after boxing day im around until the new year during the day and im only in bromley (it says your in bexley). But as I say, im no expert. I've just done it before.
Dan
You can feel compression, and it will creep past it.
He's taken the plugs out which means there's no compression there to push against, it should roll forwards in any gear with the plugs out.
I think somethings gone wrong thats worse than electrics, but I'm an optimistic sod, and thats why I suggested pushing it in 6th to check for siezure/interference in the first place.
I agree about ejohnh sounding miserable, bah humbug, just think, the carols and stuff will be over soon!
I'm not miserable - just thinking logically. And I am an engineer and I have stripped down a fair number of 4 stroke engines.
yorkie_chris
24-12-07, 11:12 PM
What I would do if i wanted to check that my engine rotated is remove the large hex plug on the generator cover.
(http://www.bluepoof.com/motorcycles/howto/svs_valves/pics/?image=373_7356.JPG)
You can then turn the engine over using a ratchet, (http://www.bluepoof.com/motorcycles/howto/svs_valves/pics/?image=373_7362.JPG) (I *think* you can do this in neutral, but i really cant remember.)
Right
Normal rotation is anticlockwise as veiwed on that bolt (17mm socket and 10mm hex to get the plug out btw)
You'll feel engine resistance going anti-clockwise, so valve movement takes quite a bit of grunt as you're compressing the valve springs, but it can be done with a normal length ratchet (9" or so of leverage), more resistance than this means something is hitting something else, feel is the key, it should feel like you're compressing a spring, if it feels like a solid stop then there's problems.
Clockwise rotation of that means the sprags on the starter clutch will bite and you'll be pushing the starter motor round as well, this is why its harder to turn it backwards. (turning the engine backwards MIGHT put extra load on the camchain tensioners)
Take the plugs out (as you have done) means that there's no resistance from compression and it should be fairly easy to turn over.
6th gear, no spark plugs, you should be able to push the bike and hear the engine sucking air down the plugholes.
Now stop biatching at each other.
phil24_7
24-12-07, 11:12 PM
Just a note to go with sudoxe's second pic, if you hold a ratchet like that you never be able to tighten or loosen anything. :-)
yorkie_chris
24-12-07, 11:14 PM
I'm not miserable - just thinking logically. And I am an engineer and I have stripped down a fair number of 4 stroke engines.
Tone of the post with the bold text and all, I agree with what you're saying though.
phil24_7
24-12-07, 11:15 PM
You can feel compression, and it will creep past it.
He's taken the plugs out which means there's no compression there to push against, it should roll forwards in any gear with the plugs out.
Didn't realise that, cheers for putting some useful information my way!
phil24_7
24-12-07, 11:17 PM
Tone of the post with the bold text and all, I agree with what you're saying though.
I was only getting at the way you were saying things, not what ya gotta say, it just got my back up a bit as I don't like being talked down to.
Soz:grouphug:
If it's mechanical then it's probably something really basic like the starter clutch mech locking. I once had a GPZ500 in for repair that locked up like this, and it was a broken magnet on the alternator locking the engine solid. It'd turn one way but if you turned it the correct way it locked up.
Good luck with it fella, and don't let it spoil your Christmas.
I was only getting at the way you were saying things, not what ya gotta say, it just got my back up a bit as I don't like being talked down to.
Soz:grouphug:
Sorry - end of a long day with the usual Christmas eve rush probs. I didn't conciously mean to talk down to anyone.. It's a problem when you've been raising a shed load of kids though ;) I'll make a new year resolution about it.:smt045
I have been where Big_G is and I would have a worm in my brain about it.. Lozzo is right though; forget about it until you get time to have a proper look - or leave it to a garage? Hopefully it is a simple repair.
phil24_7
25-12-07, 12:43 AM
Cool ejohnh, lets put this down to Christmas then!
Have a good one.
Keeping my fingers crossed that its a cheap and easy fix for ya G.
have had a look to day as have been at work no work on but have to be there
any way. It was good as had 3 people helping me and all work shop tools at disposal along with cnc work shop .
Some one on here got it right
was all down to the starter motor engagment mech. So am off at crack of dawn tomorrow to get new starter motor. Boys at work seem to think it wont be hard to cnc a new starter motor clutch ( blanced etc )
please see engine manual section 3-84
Will be up at the crack of dawn and devote my day togetting it back togeather.
will also replaced cam chain tensioners at the same time. ( may be not tomorrow but soon)
Cheers for all your help
Big G
Good to hear you got it sussed G - get wired into the grog now ;)
starter moter eh?
glad you sorted it
sorry if my advice was not helpful,
northwind
26-12-07, 12:27 AM
was all down to the starter motor engagment mech. So am off at crack of dawn tomorrow to get new starter motor. Boys at work seem to think it wont be hard to cnc a new starter motor clutch ( blanced etc )
Might just be a loose use of words, but afaik the starter clutch isn't part of the starter motor, it's inside the cases.
but afaik the starter clutch isn't part of the starter motor, it's inside the cases.
it is part of flywheel(rotor).
yes thats right but its chewed up the starter motor cog as well
as i said not very good at nuts and bolts more in to eletronics .
yes thats right but its chewed up the starter motor cog as well
as i said not very good at nuts and bolts more in to eletronics .
I wish you lived nearer me. I'm competent on the nuts and bolts but bloody useless with the electrics. :lol:
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