SV 650 How Heavy?

[Red Herring]

Hi Folks,
My apologies if this has already been asked elsewhere but has anyone got an all up weight for a race ready SV650? Thanks.

[dizzyblonde]

A normal Sv is 170kg dry weight, Im Indoors reckons around 150 if you stripped it down for racing, does this help??

[Alpinestarhero]

add about another 30 kg when wet (including full tank of fuel), i think?

Matt

[tranx]

Wet weight will be around 180kg I would have thought, maybe a bit less depending on fuel load. I take it this is for the thunderbikes power/weight limit? If so don't worry, you'd have to tune th nuts off it to get it anywhere near the limit.

[Red Herring]

Actually no, I compete in a Rally (special stage closed road sections) and for the past few years have been using a big supermoto bike with reasonable success. The problem now is the Aprilia SVX has come along and moved the goalposts, leaving the big singles not quite fast enough on the quick tarmac bits. I don't want to go the sports bike route that some have (very fast in the dry but a nightmare if it rains or on the gravel bits) so was exploring the possibility of building something based on the SV 650. Problem is I'm going to need to get the all up finished weight down to somewhere in the region of 150/160 kgs to stand much chance of being competative.

[zunkus]

I once read there is an italian company making very light frames for the SV. That combined with some light wheels might save your day. I'm curious as to the weight of the SV engine. I'm thinking its a heavy little thing compared to the Aprilia SVX you're mentioning anyway. I feel that the SV might get away with a narrower tyre at the back as well. That would lighten things more and maybe work in having a more flickable machine too. Any technical guys here care to share their ideas?

[Red Herring]

The problem with the Aprilia is fragility. They are getting better but it's no good being fast if you don't last the distance. They are an awsome bike to ride though and it may be that I will have to go in that direction eventually.

[tranx]

If you don't want to go the sports bike route then why are you looking at the sv650? I'd have though you lose all the power advantage of a sports bike but keep all the ride height, handling and weight problems of one. The engine is a lovely piece of work if you want a narrow bike but if your looking for light weight then the Kwak ER6n engine might be lighter (parralel twin, less engine block) although a tiny bit down on power compared to the sv650.

[Red Herring]

Without a doubt the Aprilia is the pick of the bunch, however at the moment it is expensive and fragile. It is also very unstable at speed. I'm sure the Kwak may be a route worth exploring, but at the moment I'm looking at the SV because in outline it is very similar to the Aprillia with a latice frame and V twin engine. If I take just the frame and engine, and then start adding the extra bits of my choice I might just end up with something competative (and original), but I need to know what I am working towards. I guess the best place to start is getting a naked SV, taking off the headlight and rear subframe/bidywork and seeing what that weighs.....hence my original question. If a race ready SV tips the scales at much over 150kg then I'm not going to get where I want to be, even with lighter wheels etc.

[zunkus]

So I guess your question is, "How much does the SV650 engine and stock frame weigh?"
Does anybody know?

[Robw#70]

My racebike is 160kg, the only weight saving parts are the front end (gsxr) and dymag front wheel, but its got a big rad and oil cooler and the extra fluid just about rules out the weight saved.

I reacon an SV Motard would be ace, a carby would suit the conversion best, KTM Duke front end, longer shock and shorter links on the back.
The company in Italy selling the Moto x conversion has disappeared, but I think its still do-able, the only tricky part is the tank, on the enduro one the airbox poked up through the tank which was plastic and moulded to the shape of the frame.

But 145>150kg 70hp (up to 90 if tuned 55ftlb torque) and better than any motard as its not screaming its head off at 100mph.

[Red Herring]

Thanks for that Robw#70. I went out and bought an 05 SV 650 today so I'll let you all know what the basic components weigh once I've stripped it down that far.
Cheers.

[zunkus]

Are there still any pictures of this SV Moto X conversion on the net? Tried to gooogle some out but found nothing.

[Red Herring]

OK, stripped down to a rolling chassis it weighs in at 148kg, which is a little on the lardy side. The only thing I need to add to make it rideable is going to be some kind of rear subframe/seat/rear mudguard which shouldn't be to difficult or heavy.

The tank was surprisingly light which is encouraging and will save some work, which is just as well as the airbox takes up all the space I had intented to use for fuel.

I'll now be looking at fork options and an exhaust system. Anyone any suggestions for a full system, it will need to be a high level can? The standatd system is unbelievably heavy so there are going to be a few kg's to be had there to.

[tranx]

A full replacement system is the best weight saving option you can go for. A lot of peope are running Hindle systems in the minitwins, the ground clearence should be good enough with one of these. :)

Other places to save a bit of weight will be footrests, bars, wheels, brake discs. You might even be able to get away with converting to a single disc and caliper, should still provide plenty of stopping power. The Ducati 600 Monster and some of the 750S bikes only came with the 1 disc and they still had quite excellent stopping power. As your trimming a damn lot of weight off it anyway you'l notice the drop even less.

[chunkytfg]

I'f you've got a 05 bike then your looking at 160 as about you limit in terms of lowest weight with just the basic stuff lightened like can etc.

My 05 race bike weighs 161kgs with full fairings, dymags, GSXR front end, lightweight subframe and fairing bracket and full Ti system.

I allready have the Main bolts changed to Ti ones aswell.

I'm looking at getting about another 2 kgs off it by haveng some shock components chaged and stripping the wiring loom down but beyond that you are looking at alot of money for very little gain.

[Red Herring]

You're not far wrong with trying to lose that last bit. At the moment I'm playing around with the seat and fuel tank options. I want to run a motorcross type seat (Using the one from my XR for measuring purposes) so that I can get the weight far enough forward on the loose, and this has meant ditching the standard tank. There is room for a small custom made aluminium tank under the front of the XR seat, between the rear cylinder head and airbox, but the mock up one I have made works out at about 6 litres, and I'm going to need about 10. The problem is the airbox, I'm just trying to get some guidance at the moment on what my options are with that. The size and shape of the airbox is important, I don't think you can just chop it in half! Managed to get some GSXR forks/radial brakes for it, but haven't had a chance to weigh them yet.

[tranx]

Would it be possible for the fuel tank to extend up along the frame beams to either side of the airbox? You might then get the extra capacity you require. It might be a bitch to manufacture though.

Edit: 2nd idea, could you have a 2nd tank linked by fuel line positioned elsewhere at a slightly higher level so it gravity feeds into the primary tank? This all adds weight though I suppose. The other option is to create a fuel tank that sits in front of the seat and also extends up underneath it.

[Red Herring]

What I had made was a triangular tank that sat between the front lower edge of the motorcross seat and air box. Managed to get capacity up to 7.5 litres by adding a section above the airbox but have run into a major problem now. When I took the fuel pump out of the tank I found it is a lot bigger then I expected, with the bit inside the tank being about 6" high. (perhaps I should have gone for a curvy carb model instead). There is no way I can get this into the triangular tank so I'm back to the drawing board at the moment. I'm not giving up on the motorcross type seat yet, but if I have to keep the airbox I'm not sure how I can manage it.

[Robw#70]

These are the only ones I have:-
http://muchos.co.uk/members/robw/sv_motard_01.jpg
http://muchos.co.uk/members/robw/svenduro (Small).jpg

[Robw#70]

Generally the injected bikes are 10kg heavier than the carby when prepped with the same parts

[metalmonkey]

I'f you've got a 05 bike then your looking at 160 as about you limit in terms of lowest weight with just the basic stuff lightened like can etc.

My 05 race bike weighs 161kgs with full fairings, dymags, GSXR front end, lightweight subframe and fairing bracket and full Ti system.

I allready have the Main bolts changed to Ti ones aswell.

I'm looking at getting about another 2 kgs off it by haveng some shock components chaged and stripping the wiring loom down but beyond that you are looking at alot of money for very little gain.

Is this dry or wet weight? Also how of difference does it make to the bike having a light rider, at the moment i'm about 66kg.

[chunkytfg]

Is this dry or wet weight? Also how of difference does it make to the bike having a light rider, at the moment i'm about 66kg.


That weight is wet after coming in from a race with about 3 litres of fuel in it.

The rider weight makes a huge difference. I'm well over double your wieght and the guys with standard minitwins who are your weight will still draught me even with all the tuning work mine has

[Red Herring]

Thanks for the photos ROBW#70, you can see exactly what I am talking about with the space below the front of the seat. Can you give me a link to where the photos came from? Would be interested in any articles/print that went with them.

[Robw#70]

Thats all ive got im afraid the site disappeared a year or so ago

[ThEGr33k]

Red herring could you post the differnce in weight between the GSXR forks brakes and wheels and the stock SV units? Cheers.

[Red Herring]

Will do, they haven't arrived yet.

[ThEGr33k]

Will do, they haven't arrived yet.

What did you get N' where did you get em from? Oh and how much they set you back? (cost)

Im wanting some K4-5 Gixxer fiorks to put on mine... for road use though. :D

[Red Herring]

K4 600 forks seemed the best option so I went for those. Ended up paying £300 on Ebay, complete with bottom yoke. Top yokes seem hard to find (apparently they suffer in crashes?) but this isn't a problem for me as I'm going to have to get a custom one to take straight bars. Front wheel is the only unknown at the moment. According to the above link the SV one should fit, but I'm not counting on it.

[pipey]

My curvy came in at 167kg :smt103 with stainless M4 system and a steel subframe.
This is after coming in from a race with 2 litres of fuel in the tank.
I have stripped it down now for a refurb and I will replace the sytem with a hindle ( 1kg lighter ) and also replace the subframe with an alloy item and also all bolts etc with alloy.
After this i,am hoping for around 161kg with any luck.:D

[tranx]

The ally rear subframe should be a good upgrade, what front subframe are you using?

[pipey]

Looking at getting an SDC subframe. Seem a good bit of kit, not sure if anyone else makes one ?

[Berlin]

Actually no, I compete in a Rally (special stage closed road sections) and for the past few years have been using a big supermoto bike with reasonable success. The problem now is the Aprilia SVX has come along and moved the goalposts, leaving the big singles not quite fast enough on the quick tarmac bits. I don't want to go the sports bike route that some have (very fast in the dry but a nightmare if it rains or on the gravel bits) so was exploring the possibility of building something based on the SV 650. Problem is I'm going to need to get the all up finished weight down to somewhere in the region of 150/160 kgs to stand much chance of being competative.

Facinating post. Really enjoying it.

Something that struck me though. Just out of interest, what is your BMI (Body Mass Index) versus the guys running 150 kg bikes?

I was considering going back into racing last year and met up with a forum member who races Minit twins. I was amazed when it turned out he was *half* my weight! He had a 9 stone advantage over me! That's 60 kg in the rider alone. So I'd have to shave 60kg off the bike which just ain't going to happen. Not even with 20 grands worth of Unobtanium trick bits.

I could sign up to Weigh****chers and is going to be far cheaper, but even then I'd never be able to get under 15 stones, so I'd still be giving away a 40 kg advantage.

Very interested to see what the finished bike looks like. I'm considering trying to shoehorn an SV motor into a Bimota 600 single just to see if it's possible.

keep up the good work,
Carl

[chunkytfg]

Facinating post. Really enjoying it.

Something that struck me though. Just out of interest, what is your BMI (Body Mass Index) versus the guys running 150 kg bikes?

I was considering going back into racing last year and met up with a forum member who races Minit twins. I was amazed when it turned out he was *half* my weight! He had a 9 stone advantage over me! That's 60 kg in the rider alone. So I'd have to shave 60kg off the bike which just ain't going to happen. Not even with 20 grands worth of Unobtanium trick bits.

I could sign up to Weigh****chers and is going to be far cheaper, but even then I'd never be able to get under 15 stones, so I'd still be giving away a 40 kg advantage.

Very interested to see what the finished bike looks like. I'm considering trying to shoehorn an SV motor into a Bimota 600 single just to see if it's possible.

keep up the good work,
Carl


I suffer the same issues although riding in the thunderbikes series things work out a bit different.

http://www.pallahaxi.co.uk/georacebike/gallery/temp/meandtim.jpg

Here we have two riders(one on the right being me) both riders and bikes total weights are nearly the same meaning in theory we are equal although he has more power than me btu on the other hand my abilty to throw the lighter biek round helps in the twisties

[Red Herring]

A friend and close competitor of mine ran a KTM 525 and we worked out that our all up weight was virtually the same, despite his bike being 20kg lighter. The overall mass is important as far as accelerating and braking are concerned, however the weight of the bike really makes a difference when you get off the clean tarmac onto gravel or dirt. With the heavier bikes it is just so much harder to catch a slide or pick the front up over a rut, and in the wet it's even worse. Traditionally the superbikes (R1 with straight bars/Mille 1000/Fazer 1000 etc) clean up on the fast smooth sections, especially in the dry, but if you throw in a little rain and a couple of bumpy tracks they immediately lose out. I guess I'm just trying to find the perfect compromise, be interesting to see how it all pans out.

[metalmonkey]

Actually no, I compete in a Rally (special stage closed road sections) and for the past few years have been using a big supermoto bike with reasonable success. The problem now is the Aprilia SVX has come along and moved the goalposts, leaving the big singles not quite fast enough on the quick tarmac bits. I don't want to go the sports bike route that some have (very fast in the dry but a nightmare if it rains or on the gravel bits) so was exploring the possibility of building something based on the SV 650. Problem is I'm going to need to get the all up finished weight down to somewhere in the region of 150/160 kgs to stand much chance of being competative.

Hey dude is this leige by any chance? Its looks like I'm going time off work booked, dates sorted we just need to sort out costing. Though I wouldn't mind getting a different bike than my road bike to use.

[the_lone_wolf]

I suffer the same issues although riding in the thunderbikes series things work out a bit different.

http://www.pallahaxi.co.uk/georacebike/gallery/temp/meandtim.jpg

Here we have two riders(one on the right being me) both riders and bikes total weights are nearly the same meaning in theory we are equal although he has more power than me btu on the other hand my abilty to throw the lighter biek round helps in the twisties
i know i shouldn't laugh, but that picture is crazy, you're a big guy, can the extra muscle over the bike really compensate for the extra weight / drag? i'm not taking the mick, just curious:)




posting that pic of the fat guy on the scooter would be taking the mick...






































http://jenyse.com/pictures/04aug14-fat-guy-on-a-little-scooter.jpg

sorry

8-[

[chunkytfg]

i know i shouldn't laugh, but that picture is crazy, you're a big guy, can the extra muscle over the bike really compensate for the extra weight / drag? i'm not taking the mick, just curious:)



http://jenyse.com/pictures/04aug14-fat-guy-on-a-little-scooter.jpg

sorry

8-[


LOL not a problem.

And who said anything about muscle? Most of it is nothing more than blubber!!!:D:mrgreen:

Yes it can though. Just look at David Jefferies on the IOM TT. Was by and far the best rider out there but stick him on a short circuit and he was nowhere(relatively speaking) It's all about finding the right environment to compete in. Fast flowing stuff i'm equal but in the really twisties the extra weight of the bike means trying to turn it is far harder than the lighter bike

[Red Herring]

Hey dude is this leige by any chance? Its looks like I'm going time off work booked, dates sorted we just need to sort out costing. Though I wouldn't mind getting a different bike than my road bike to use.

Sure is, wondered how long is was going to take you to make the connection....only joking. I wouldn't worry to much about the bike for the first year, just make sure it is reliable so you don't have to worry about that as well as learning the route and some rally craft. If you can get hold of a set of Avon Pro Rains then they are the safest tyre to run if the weather is remotely marginal, otherwise a good set of sticky road race rubber if the sun is out. Be warned that they may be noise testing us this year so if you do have an aftermarket can make sure the road baffle is at least in your pocket for scrutineering. As I said before there is lots of experience in your team and they will definately be able to help you out.

[metalmonkey]

I hadn't been following this thread that carefully, but if you over there we should have beer, Belgium beer is ACE:thumleft::drink:

Though at the moment I only my SV, I having secodn thoughts about takign with me, money is very tight for after losing my car and saving for mini twins. argh....

Will I be okay on my SV over there? I really don't want to come off.

[Red Herring]

Your SV will be fine, why do you think I'm looking at using one myself. Don't worry to much about the money situation, the event isn't exactly famous for costing to much, especially when we all chip in together. Your gang have taken recently to hiring a B&B for the week which might make a difference but the rest of us slum it at the local barracks. Just stay off the beer on the Friday evening, hangovers and special stages don't mix!

[ThEGr33k]

Wierd im sure the stock one isnt much heavier than 170 fully wet. :confused:

Why not make a honda motogp style tiny back end :thumbsup:

[metalmonkey]

Your SV will be fine, why do you think I'm looking at using one myself. Don't worry to much about the money situation, the event isn't exactly famous for costing to much, especially when we all chip in together. Your gang have taken recently to hiring a B&B for the week which might make a difference but the rest of us slum it at the local barracks. Just stay off the beer on the Friday evening, hangovers and special stages don't mix!

Yeah we have Chatue, or how ever the hell you spell it, well I'm looking foward to it, yeah don't worry friday I will have no beer but the party the day after is the time for that right? Well I intend to have fun, JD, rum, or vodka yum:smt077 I'm not sure of set up, plans ect apart from that it does a hell of lot of fun.

[chunkytfg]

Wierd im sure the stock one isnt much heavier than 170 fully wet. :confused:

Why not make a honda motogp style tiny back end :thumbsup:


Not a chance mate. If the fully race prepped ones with loads of lightweight bling on em are 160ish and the standard exhaust system on it's own is mearly 10kgs then there is your 170 straight away

[SV650Racer]

Looking at getting an SDC subframe. Seem a good bit of kit, not sure if anyone else makes one ?

We make tubular alloy subframes and clock brackets for the injected SV650. Very neat and strong. Got them going onto my new online shop which will be live this weekend!.

I seem to remember a stock one fully wet being 185kg plus!. Alot of the stock road bits and bolts are very heavy.

The GSXR600K4 front end in mine weighed just over half what the SV one did!.

I also had 1kg taken off the stock crank!!!:smt107:lol:

I now have the job of lightening my Supersport bike right down!. Trouble is they are minimal anyway so god knows how far i can go with that!

[zunkus]

"The GSXR600K4 front end in mine weighed just over half what the SV one did!."
God I always thought the upsidedowners are heavier! So you're saying how much lighter are they. The rear wheel is also quite hefty, being 160. Do you think switching to lighter/thinner 140's is a good idea. The steering would benefit as well. Sometimes I think that the SV was given a 160 rear just to look good. What's your opinion on this guys?

[SV650Racer]

"The GSXR600K4 front end in mine weighed just over half what the SV one did!."
God I always thought the upsidedowners are heavier! So you're saying how much lighter are they. The rear wheel is also quite hefty, being 160. Do you think switching to lighter/thinner 140's is a good idea. The steering would benefit as well. Sometimes I think that the SV was given a 160 rear just to look good. What's your opinion on this guys?

Yes the GSXR front end is alot lighter due to materials used being lighter and how they are made.

I wouldnt think a 140 rear would be a good plan. Firstly tyre choice would be very very limited and secondly the steering once well setup is awesome. The 140 wouldnt give enough benefit also to outweigh the lack of tyre contact patch when leaned over and on the gas.

If you change anything go for a set of Dymags. In fact I know someone who might be selling a pair just for the injected bike with a GSXR front end!!!

[metalmonkey]

"The GSXR600K4 front end in mine weighed just over half what the SV one did!."
God I always thought the upsidedowners are heavier! So you're saying how much lighter are they. The rear wheel is also quite hefty, being 160. Do you think switching to lighter/thinner 140's is a good idea. The steering would benefit as well. Sometimes I think that the SV was given a 160 rear just to look good. What's your opinion on this guys?

Can you this front on end on for mini twin racing? I though it had to stay as standard?

[tranx]

Looking at getting an SDC subframe. Seem a good bit of kit, not sure if anyone else makes one ?

I've got one of those fitted, my race bike came prepped by SDC. The rear subframe is minimalist, excellent piece of kit.

[jambo]

Can you this front on end on for mini twin racing? I though it had to stay as standard?

Minitwins need to retain the standard forks, but you can change the springs and oil and fit emulators. Several of the people posting here run in Thunderbikes which is a very different class....

[SV650Racer]

As Jambo says. Dont follow everything I do or did...because i raced in Thunderbikes on the SV! - Good class also worth considering if you like fiddling!.