View Full Version : social housing rules, does anyone know?
Anyone out there who knows? Can council give a Flat to a 16-17 year old male (not pregnant!) without a parental consent or guarantor?
Ie "I'm homeless, I've been abused, now have nowhere to live." Parents are not interview or questioned, minor is given a flat :shock:
Friend might be looking for a lawyer in the matter too, so if anyone can help I'll be very grateful.[-o<
I couldn't say but this happen'd to a friend of mine back in 1987, I let him stay at mine place until he decided to join the RAF... he's still in and loving it.
yorkie_chris
27-12-07, 11:42 PM
Friend might be looking for a lawyer in the matter too, so if anyone can help I'll be very grateful.[-o<
Your friend being the parent(s) who were (shock horror) not questioned about it? :p
Your friend being the parent(s) who were (shock horror) not questioned about it? :p
precisely, this was 2 years ago. parents not informed or questioned about anything, council when asked chucked the wall of privacy laws.
from 12 GCSE, six form to 5k debts smoking and dealing drugs in 2 years.
Ye pee, lets embrace the do gooders:cheers:
I thought they still might still be classed as a minor untill their 18th Birthday.
I very much dought the council would give them a flat. and I believe social services will get involved too.
as for the parents... have the police been involved yet?
also instead of a lawyer PM Ed as hes a solisitor, and might be of more valuable help.
I thought they still might still be classed as a minor untill their 18th Birthday.
I very much dought the council would give them a flat. and I believe social services will get involved too.
as for the parents... have the police been involved yet?
minor-er maybe but
flat was given 2 years ago
police -no :shock:
yorkie_chris
28-12-07, 12:00 AM
Their parenting skills aren't going to be improved by sueing someone now are they?
Sorry, I think I've have hold of the wrong end of the stick.
still give Ed (http://forums.sv650.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=1060) a PM
Their parenting skills aren't going to be improved by sueing someone now are they?
the problem in the matter was that, they wanted to be interviewed by the police and the social services and anyone else, but weren't. instead no one could say why the council flat was given or why they were not questioned if all this abuse was mentioned.
the trouble is the boy is coming of the rails now and has no respect for anyone, got sacked from jobs stall parents credit cards, council said he's now an adult and if he won't pay for his flat he's on his face.
They saying it was easier for the council to give a flat then to interview the parents, hence exposing the lies of the son, who only wanted to be with his GF and didn't care how he got there :roll:
yorkie_chris
28-12-07, 12:13 AM
the trouble is the boy is coming of the rails now and has no respect for anyone,
Doesn't sound like he had any before!
Doesn't sound like he had any before!
I think maybe the GF:rolleyes:
yorkie_chris
28-12-07, 12:28 AM
Reminds me of an exes of mines familys' friend... (..s cousin who met my brother in law down the pub etc etc. lol)
Parents both teachers, absolutely devout Christians (Of the Church on Sunday, gossip on Monday type) who would always rush to point out to Rach's Mother how wrong, immoral and terrible it was that Rach (my ex) was with such an 'orrible, chain smoking, pint supping, baldy headed thug (me :D), good christians they are you see :rolleyes:
Kid's (4 of), never out past 10, little angels you see :p
The next thing we hear, their lad's been done for possesion of sniff and caught nicking money off of the parents.
Of course, it's the fault of the lads mates at school... :rolleyes:
Reminds me of an exes of mines familys' friend... (..s cousin who met my brother in law down the pub etc etc. lol)
Parents both teachers, absolutely devout Christians (Of the Church on Sunday, gossip on Monday type) who would always rush to point out to Rach's Mother how wrong, immoral and terrible it was that Rach (my ex) was with such an 'orrible, chain smoking, pint supping, baldy headed thug (me :D), good christians they are you see :rolleyes:
Kid's (4 of), never out past 10, little angels you see :p
The next thing we hear, their lad's been done for possesion of sniff and caught nicking money off of the parents.
Of course, it's the fault of the lads mates at school... :rolleyes:
I think, this is "slightly" different.
The "boy" at a tender age of 15 had better ideas of what he wanted to do with his life, my mate was seeing the mediator then, but the boy refused to continue when he was told he had to listen to his father.
My friend is far from what you describe above. The boy has always been very manipulative,
but the bottom line is council has given a flat to a capricious child of 16 and left it to him to make his life.
If I look back at my life, if I was given the same I don't know what would have happened to me. Majority of 16 year olds are not mature enough to become an adult. go to school, have a job to pay all the bills etc.
this case is a result of PC correctness v common sense and the consequences now are a direct result of that.
it's much easier to give a flat rather to deal with the issues.
My friends life has been hell in the last 4 years. The council would not speak to them then because of privacy laws, now they say nothing can be done as he's an adult.
So going back to the original question;
Does anyone know what are the council guidelines regarding giving "help" flats to minors? Can they legally do this without even a simple interview with the parents to establish/ verify the claim / reasons for "homelessness"?
Our local council had interviewed Parents and child, and refused, stating that child made himself homeless. It's the council where the GF lived that "helped out". My friend had been on to social services who have stated that someone acted illegally when they had done this. This is the reason for the question. If they had acted illegally then, giving the "parental castration", they should be brought to be responsible for it now.
Where else on earth can this happen?
Speedy Claire
28-12-07, 11:16 AM
I`m not sure if it varies from council to council... it may well do. I know that last June the government gave major funding to what they saw as the rising problem of child homelessness amongst 16 and 17 year olds. The type of housing that is provided for this age group tho is supported lodgings schemes which provide short-term respite support to young people, giving them a place to stay whilst they work through problems in the hope they can return to the family home. The stipulation from the government was that the council had to fund and provide mediation schemes to resolve family breakdowns as that is the biggest cause of child homelessness. I would`ve thought therefore that yes the family should have been involved! I`m guessing that the council considered your friends son to be a "vulnerable adult" adult being classed as someone over the age of 16 and any person over the age of 16 and not subject to immigration control can register an interest in accessing council housing.
I know the above won`t help you much but its my local councils stance on the subject. I`m amazed that the council didn`t involve the family in some sort of mediation scheme and doesn`t sound right to me. However, some teenagers have extremely vivid imaginations and could i`m sure convince anyone with all manner of lies if they really wanted to. It sounds like maybe the council, acting on what they`ve been told, have gone down the road of "Vulnerable Adult Protection" and maybe thats why your friends weren`t informed.
when i was 16 and kept falling out with my mum and dad (for no other reason than being a teenager) i went to council to ask for a flat and they laughed at me and told me to go home. then when I left my husband I approached council for accommodation for me and my kids only to be told as I had sold my house (couldnt afford it on my own) I had made myself intentionally homeless and could not help.
its a mad mad world.
I`m not sure if it varies from council to council... it may well do. I know that last June the government gave major funding to what they saw as the rising problem of child homelessness amongst 16 and 17 year olds. The type of housing that is provided for this age group tho is supported lodgings schemes which provide short-term respite support to young people, giving them a place to stay whilst they work through problems in the hope they can return to the family home. The stipulation from the government was that the council had to fund and provide mediation schemes to resolve family breakdowns as that is the biggest cause of child homelessness. I would`ve thought therefore that yes the family should have been involved! I`m guessing that the council considered your friends son to be a "vulnerable adult" adult being classed as someone over the age of 16 and any person over the age of 16 and not subject to immigration control can register an interest in accessing council housing.
I know the above won`t help you much but its my local councils stance on the subject. I`m amazed that the council didn`t involve the family in some sort of mediation scheme and doesn`t sound right to me. However, some teenagers have extremely vivid imaginations and could i`m sure convince anyone with all manner of lies if they really wanted to. It sounds like maybe the council, acting on what they`ve been told, have gone down the road of "Vulnerable Adult Protection" and maybe thats why your friends weren`t informed.
it is probably the case here, they took the view of becoming the judge/ jury and executioner simply on hearsay. that is the most unbelievable thing. who's going be paying the consequences now though?
timwilky
28-12-07, 02:36 PM
My younger daughter was a problem. she left home at 15. Social services were not interested and thought of her as a problem that would go away when she turned 16. She lived with relatives until they got sick of her ways and kicked her out. In the end she was living for 9 months in the local homeless hostel. Two days after turning 18 she got a flat. It had been available for her 3 months earlier, but the housing association would not let her sign a tenancy agreement until she was 18.
At 16/17 there should be a system to help problem kids. since my daughter went through this the local council have built specialist accommodation for young people. But for 9 months she lived with the local flotsam and jetsam of society. We watched from a distance. Desperately pleading with everyone to help her. So reading the above posts. I am please that somebody has acted in the interest of the kid first. OK they have now got the opportunity to live their own life, **** up, make mistakes and have to face the consequences. The other way round. God forbid, allegations could have substance, kid desperate to get away ends up living on the streets prey to all the evils that exist out there.
Boy do I know kids can be evil, horrible, violent, abusive, etc. There comes a time when you cannot accept their behaviour anymore and drastic actions are required. However, they are still your kids and it doesn't matter how bad they are a spark of love and compassion will always exist for them.
The mediation services etc mentioned above sound like a joke. No parent wants to throw out their kids. In my case we were left with no choice. Laura would hit her mum, steal from us. was promiscuous from age 13, would blatantly sleep with men and come home stinking and bragging. The police would return her in the early hours of the morning usually with a "Good Luck" to us in the knowledge that they would be bringing her home again. Social services who were turned to for help were not interested as if it was us who had the problem. In the end Laura was admitted to the local A&E after a supposed overdose. She was referred to a child psychiatrist 15 miles away. She would not go, could not be forced to go etc. I would always dread that she would make up a malicious allegation against me.
Whilst she was living in the homeless unit, she was attending college in Preston and their student support services were a real help. They liaised with the council, housing association and to some degree ourselves. They did the job I had assumed a social worker should have done.
Speedy Claire
28-12-07, 04:14 PM
Christ thats so sad... must`ve been hell going thru that as a parent. Hope that all`s worked out for her now and her lifes getting back on track
Hi hun
As far as I'm aware each local authority can allocate their housing stock in pretty much any way their elected counsellers' policy dictates. In most cases 16 is seen as being 'adult', at least in the case of housing; so, for example a 16 year old could well be forced out of foster care because of their age but would then be eligable for social housing, if there is any available. As someone has said already in the last 2-5 years this has improved greatly with the provision of supported independent living for youngsters, such as The Foyer organisation.
However local autorities have no obligation to contact parents or guardians in such matters - no criminal accusations presumably were made and the youngster did not go to the police (Social Servces would not normally get involved at this age). By all accounts a plausible story was told and believed. It's incredible how believable some youngsters can be and they sure can use this to manipulative effect.
Tell your friend that in my very humble opinion sometimes a parent has to step away and let the child fly free to make their own way, whether that be success or not. As a parent of a child who is now a young adult who's lifestyle worries me sick I understand the worry in the pit of your stomach. I think our job is to still be there to pick up any pieces if and when necessary.
xxx
Hi hun
As far as I'm aware each local authority can allocate their housing stock in pretty much any way their elected counsellers' policy dictates. In most cases 16 is seen as being 'adult', at least in the case of housing; so, for example a 16 year old could well be forced out of foster care because of their age but would then be eligable for social housing, if there is any available. As someone has said already in the last 2-5 years this has improved greatly with the provision of supported independent living for youngsters, such as The Foyer organisation.
However local autorities have no obligation to contact parents or guardians in such matters - no criminal accusations presumably were made and the youngster did not go to the police (Social Servces would not normally get involved at this age). By all accounts a plausible story was told and believed. It's incredible how believable some youngsters can be and they sure can use this to manipulative effect.
Tell your friend that in my very humble opinion sometimes a parent has to step away and let the child fly free to make their own way, whether that be success or not. As a parent of a child who is now a young adult who's lifestyle worries me sick I understand the worry in the pit of your stomach. I think our job is to still be there to pick up any pieces if and when necessary.
xxx
Thank you Sally.
the trouble is that one council after interviews deemed "made himself homeless" after interviews, where the other one decided to act on hearsay.
My opinion on this matter is this; parents have a right too, the right in the view of allegations to be proven guilty or not. when someone takes the parents rights away they have to have some reasons for that not allegations.
Life altering judgments without as much as an interview.
Why one will say "made himself homeless" the other will give a flat. the circumstances have not changed.
Do they act as they see fit with no regard for guidelines, same case, same people, 2 months apart.
This child was given a flat, and the social care had to take responsibility, he was still a minor. Someone had to be the guarantor.
We heard that if the council had not done that they have acted illegally.
BUT Why the parents were IGNORED? if the council found that the allegations were true, after a face to face interview it was verified then fair enough. but they did not even attempt to do that.
They have taken the parental rights from the parents but on what grounds??
Nowadays it's not so easy to be an abused child and no one will know about it, especially at 15. passed school records and performance can be verified and found. it's not that difficult to call the school, email teachers etc. etc.
Was that done in this case?
what will the government do if every teenage male who starts getting his pecker up and knows how to work the system, will tell councils loads of tales because they want to have somewhere to sleep with their girlfriends?
Oh yeah but they all have council flats :roll: and few children. but they have those children first.
Then there is the destroyed family, drug addiction, loss of 3 years of young mans life, it might be (criminal record for a long time if not for life, maybe prison. All because the council dished out a flat to a boy in love.
Who will pay for the detriment?
yorkie_chris
28-12-07, 08:45 PM
I don't think it's the councils fault for giving him a flat, fair enough it's daft, negligent and a waste of taxpayers money. But if he was going to be daft then he could have done that from home, and I daresay a clip round the ear might have helped
Mon, I completely agree with your feelings about this. The councils were morally wrong in my opinion to have awarded accomodation in this case. However I don't think any laws have been broken. As far as I know 'parental rights' and legal age of consent is a very grey area of the law (if any laywer knows better I'll be happy to be corrected). I know that in education, for example, it can be a very difficult area to get into when the student is over 16 - we are in loco parentis in many ways but the student has rights over confidentiality and other matters if they so wish. I understand that in any court the Magistrate/Judge will take the 'childs' views into account and if the 'child' is 16 or more the their views are likely to hold. If they cannot make decisions for themselves at that age, the court views, then do they need other forms of guardianship.
Of course any accusations of any sort of abuse should be taken seriously and someone should have followed this up,passing the information on to Social Services or the Police as appropriate who will then follow their own procedures. As this wasn't done at the time maybe he used something else. My daughter tried this with the local council when she was 17 and they told her she had to prove she's been thrown out by me. Of course I wouldn't write that letter she wanted. She didn't think of forging one - maybe this lad did. Officials really havn't got the time or money to follow everything up.
Tell your friend that our kids will sometimes just be what they will be and give her a hug from me
I don't think it's the councils fault for giving him a flat, fair enough it's daft, negligent and a waste of taxpayers money. But if he was going to be daft then he could have done that from home, and I daresay a clip round the ear might have helped
The clip round the ear did not, in fact it made things worse. I've heard few stories on the radio, that parents were charged with assault for doing just that:mad:.
Why can the council become daft and negligent? In my eyes it's an offence.
If I was daft and negligent I would be punished for that.
they have a duty of care. It's people they are dealing with not numbers, if they have a power take parents rights away, they should be at least accountable for their action and follow some laws to be able to justify them
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