Cornering technique

[Ed]

I can generally manage to keep up with people quite well now. But that's simply because I have a damn powerful bike and I've learned not to be afraid to open it up where appropriate.

But corners - aaargh. Yes sure I can get round, but this is the worst part of my riding. I can usually do a reasonable line, and I know about road positioning, vanishing points and all that gubbins, but it's irritating that I find myself slowing for a corner, and I put it down to poor technique and body positioning. I see people with one **** cheek hanging off the bike, but I physically can't slide around - so should I be lifting off the pegs? And when?

:confused:

Edit - this censorship of the word 'a-r-s-e' is tedious

[mister c]

In the dry or wet?
On a dry day I would find a roundabout somewhere quiet and just keep practising at a higher speed until you find your limit. it does help to lift your bum slightly off the seat to move around, you know when, because it will "feel" right.
Can't help you in the wet because I am one of the worlds worst wet weather riders. I always think I am going to crash, so keep the entry speed low and accellerate coming out.

[Stig]

Ed, this is one of those points that need to be visual for anyone to really be able to give an opinion on your riding. Otherwise it will just be a whole load of suggestions and tips that could quite possibly not be for you and your style or riding.

I'd seriously suggest taking some advanced lessons on this particular subject. I'd also look elsewhere other than your bog standard riding school. Most of the instructors probably wouldn't be able to give that sort of intense training as they have only really learnt how to get someone through a test. (I know this as I was one).

[K]

...but it's irritating that I find myself slowing for a corner, and I put it down to poor technique and body positioning.

Hell, I know naff all really, passing my test back in the stone age and never having a proper 'lesson' in my life, but...

... perhaps you have a trust issue. With your bike I mean.

Me, I know I know jack **** and am more than ready to admit that Mr Honda knows far more than me - therefore if I was to suddenly dissapear from the back of my bike it would, in all probablility, be perfectly happy and continue on without my interference.
Basically I have complete trust that the BlueBlade is far better at this biking lark than I am so I should just point it in the right direction and let it get on with it.

I just ride and only when i'm trying to be clever and pretend like I know what I'm doing to things go a bit pear shaped. :oops:

But then I think I was perhaps a little more influenced by Herbie films as a kid that is probably deemed 'normal'.





I'm not helping am I. :smt069

[Demonz]

Foot position on the pegs helped me out here. Are you on the balls of your feet when cornering? When coming into the corner I think about keeping the bike as upright as possible (for max grip) by moving myself off the seat.

[Luckypants]

It's that 'c' word Ed - confidence! Confidence in your bike, tyres and ability. Then you will be able to go in to the corner at good pace, on the throttle. The difference an extra millimetre of throttle opening makes to the bike's stability is huge.

You need to go into / round a bend on a neutral or slightly accelerating throttle (you know this I'm sure) before opening her up as the bend opens. It is confidence that allows us to actually be on the throttle rather than on a slightly trailing throttle. The difference is often that 1mm of throttle hand.

Find a twisty road you know quite well, where you can position the bike correctly without too much thought and work on getting the braking done early, getting into the bend on a 'positive neutral' throttle then getting on the gas early as you exit.

[600+]

Could it be that you think about what could go wrong if you lean to much plus the fact that you have a family and kids?

[Ed]

Typically I ride around on the balls of my feet with toes pointing at the ground. On entry into a corner I try to point my inside foot into the corner so my knee is pointing the right way. Well sort of. But that's about as far as I get, further body movement doesn't happen.

CSS maybe?

Edit - 600+ and Luckypants replied as I was typing. You are both right. Having come off badly once, I don't want to repeat - so it has taken me three years to get to this stage. I want to improve...

[Lozzo]

But then I think I was perhaps a little more influenced by Herbie films as a kid that is probably deemed 'normal'.

This has got to be the most worrying thing I have ever seen written on this forum.

[fizzwheel]

Typically I ride around on the balls of my feet with toes pointing at the ground. On entry into a corner I try to point my inside foot into the corner so my knee is pointing the right way. Well sort of. But that's about as far as I get, further body movement doesn't happen.

CSS maybe?

Edit - 600+ and Luckypants replied as I was typing. You are both right. Having come off badly once, I don't want to repeat - so it has taken me three years to get to this stage. I want to improve...

I havent got it right, but I do hang off a bit with one butt cheek off the seat.

You want to practise sliding from left to right and right to left in the seat first, try and make it a smooth transition, if you it to quickly or in a jerky manner it upsets the bike on the suspension which doesnt help matters.

You want to be gripping the tank with your outside knee and have your inside arm bent at the elbow, also try to kiss the inside mirror. Dont sit right on the tank either, leave a gap about the size of a packet of fags between you and the tank.

It really is just practice and confidence, I'm not convinced it makes me any faster, but I do find with a bit of weight transfers to the inside of the corner it does make the bike easier to turn. I've been out ridden by plenty of people who stay sat in the seat.

Its hard to master on the road just find a big quiet roundabout on a hot day with warm tyres and ride round it and sit off lean over a bit more each time. Do it a couple of times and then go home, you'll get the knack of it.

CSS sounds like a good idea I know a couple of people who have done it and the instructors have helped with their body positioning, probably easy to master it on the track where you dont have to worry about cars etc rather than on the road.

Like I said I havent got my body positioning right so dont take all I have posted as gospel.

[600+]

Edit - 600+ and Luckypants replied as I was typing. You are both right. Having come off badly once, I don't want to repeat - so it has taken me three years to get to this stage. I want to improve...

In which case I wouldn't spend money on a training course.......at this stage at least.

I go into a corner the same as Luckypants described. A friend from the IAM suggested that first start going into corners with lower speeds but keep the throttle steady and with practice higher speeds will come

[NAPA121]

I go into a corner the same as Luckypants described. A friend from the IAM suggested that first start going into corners with lower speeds but keep the throttle steady and with practice higher speeds will come

One of the best peices of advice I have heard to date on a biking forum....:thumbsup:

[-Ralph-]

The only thing that hasn't been said is to corner on a positive throttle. Lots of slow cornering riders brake into a corner and accelerate out as you would do in a car. EDIT: yes it has, I missed luckypants post

This creates fork dive under braking into the corner with all the weight over the front. Then the weight transfers to the back mid corner as the rear squats under the acceleration. Completely upsets the bike.

Do all your braking in advance of the corner, then open your throttle again and set you corner speed before tipping in. Drive through the bend on a positive throttle (ie: bike just pulling) and accelerate away harder as the bend starts to open up. This keeps the load off the front forks and balances weight distribution between front and back wheels. 'Cos the bike feels happier, you feel happier and corner quicker.

Then find an empty industrial estate or business park with roundabouts on a dry Sunday morning and practice your lean. Circle continuously opening your throttle a tiny bit more every second or third revolution, and lean a bit further, thus increasing you speed. It's amazing how far you can lean.

I wouldn't worry too much about shifting weight and leaning off and stuff until you've got the confidence to crank the bike over and wear off your chicken strips, this thread seems to have gone that way. You can learn this later. Try not to counter lean though (lean the opposite way to the corner), sitting still and leaning the same angle as the bike is perfectly acceptable whilst still building your confidence. You have to walk before you can run.

[Sudoxe]

The only thing that hasn't been said is to corner on a positive throttle. Lots of slow cornering riders brake into a corner and accelerate out as you would do in a car. EDIT: yes it has, I missed luckypants post

This creates fork dive under braking into the corner with all the weight over the front. Then the weight transfers to the back mid corner as the rear squats under the acceleration. Completely upsets the bike.

Do all your braking in advance of the corner, then open your throttle again and set you corner speed before tipping in. Drive through the bend on a positive throttle (ie: bike just pulling) and accelerate away harder as the bend starts to open up. This keeps the load off the front forks and balances weight distribution between front and back wheels. 'Cos the bike feels happier, you feel happier and corner quicker.



Ed - I did a couple of days with a RoSPA instructor for exactly the same reason (im not fast now mind, but im better than I was!).

He took me to some out of the way twisties, made me do a run of it and back to the carpark at the other end. Gave me some tips, vanishing points, etc. Made me do it again, noticed the improvements. Back to the carpark, then told me about pushing pegs, another run up and down, etc. We did this for about an hour just to work out the techniques and by the end of it I was going more than fast enough :mrgreen:.

After that we went for a ride to put everything into practice properly. It was in my opinion worth the investment every bit as much as, a lid, gloves, race can etc. Just think of it as an shiny bit :)

One more note on the subject A little throttle as soon as you lean the bike over (not much, just enough to be positive and unload the front) into the corner is good, but don't open it too much otherwise your be in the Tony Elias camp going sideways.

Once you do that you can progressively add more to get out of the corner, etc. Im sure your build up slowly but in case other people are reading, DO THIS SLOWLY AND PROGRESSIVELY, otherwise you will also be sideways.

Dan

[yorkie_chris]

Now for something completely different (well not really..)


Giving throttle out of a corner, if the back starts to slip, what should your reaction be?

[-Ralph-]

Now for something completely different (well not really..)


Giving throttle out of a corner, if the back starts to slip, what should your reaction be?

Ride home and change your trousers? :D

[K]

Now for something completely different (well not really..)


Giving throttle out of a corner, if the back starts to slip, what should your reaction be?

Steer into the skid...




... or is that with my MG? ;)

[yorkie_chris]

I might be from Halifax, but I'm not Mr Smudge :p

[Demonz]

Now for something completely different (well not really..)


Giving throttle out of a corner, if the back starts to slip, what should your reaction be?

I think most reactions are the same. Sharp increase in heart rate, roll off throttle. Outcomes maybe different but generally 3 expected categories I would think:

- bike grips and you carry on
- bike grips and you highside
- bike doesnt grip and you end up sitting on the road thinking sh*t what happened there.

Personally I have never experienced it on a road bike - dirt bikes it is a lot of fun and a great way to play with your balance and grip in these situations.

[yorkie_chris]

That middle one is the one to avoid really innit, tends to be expensive :p

[Demonz]

A note - Have only heard good things about these guys for Advanced riding school for non-racers - http://www.hoppridertraining.co.uk/index.asp

[metalmonkey]

Now for something completely different (well not really..)


Giving throttle out of a corner, if the back starts to slip, what should your reaction be?

This a good thread, my problem is I tend to be too slow heading into corners so my entry speed is way too slow, when I should be going a lot faster.

This is something I need to work on when it gets warmer, any suggestions on how to improve my entry speed and hold through the corners?

If my back end went, I would roll the throttle off let settle and apply power again.

[fizzwheel]

The other thing I found useful was everynow and again some of the bike magazine have articles that cover how to corner better etc etc. They are usually well thought out and well explained ( well better than my gibberings anyway ) I learnt alot of tips just by reading those.

[orose]

I think I can speak for us all and say that thats what your reaction should be.

When it actually happened to me, however, the reaction was more "whats going on - oh poo" *closes throttle* *tyre grips* low speed highside (about 10mph), break gear lever, call AA, complain like buggery when hand defrosts and you realise you've hurt that too.

My insurer really loved me the next day, but they did pitch for it at the end of the year to their credit.

[fizzwheel]

any suggestions on how to improve my entry speed and hold through the corners?

Yeah dont brake so hard before turning in :-D I used to that alot when i first started riding and also when I changed from the SV to the GSXR as the GSXR brakess are much better.

Its just learning to read the road, practice, experience and confidence. My advice would be to ride a section of twistys you know well and each time you ride it just brake a little bit later or dont use so much brake power, keep repeating it over a few runs and you'll find your confidence will improve. Do it on a warm summer day with heat in your tyres, slippy winter roads are'nt really the best way to learn this stuff.

Also learn to read the road better, look at the white lines, the hedgerow, telegraph poles etc as you approach a corner it'll give you an idea of how sharp the corner is and then you can use that to judge how much to brake.

Again just take it steady and dont try and make radically changes in big steps, a little at a time is best IMHO.

Again don't take what I post as gospel I'm not a riding god. Just try some of it for yourself and then you'll find out what does and doesnt work for you as everybody learns / thinks / rides in a different way.

[Pedrosa]

Ed you need to come back over and spend a couple of days riding with me on your fave...the Ronda Road. We'd soon have you in shape.;)

[Stig]

You need to go into / round a bend on a neutral or slightly accelerating throttle (you know this I'm sure) before opening her up as the bend opens.

Cornering on a neutral throttle is probably the most unstable way to go round a corner. A neutral throttle allows the bike to move around on it's chasis.

Negative or positive throttle is the way into and out of corners.

[Alpinestarhero]

One thing I found a few weeks back was to grip more with my knees (on the tank) than grip the handlebars with my hands so much...this seemd to quicken up the steering and make everything alot smoother. Takes a while to do it intuitivly though, i can only do it on corners i know at the moment

Matt

[Beenz]

Ed, just get on more rideouts with some faster riders and watch the lines and braking etc. Have a word with the odd one to ride behind you and provide constructive crticism. And listen.


.....failing the above, just get out on the bike more and your confidence and speed will come. Find a set of twisties that you can ride and ride again and practice. DO NOT OVER RIDE THE BIKE too much beyond your comfort zone, pushing the envolope is one thing, falling off is another.

[DanAbnormal]

In the dry I generally hang off like a gibbon, in the wet I am upright and cautious. Maybe over cautious. I would say road riding you probably don't want to be commiting yourself 100% anyway (says dangerous dan!) as it helps to leave margin for error and unexpected happenings. Do one of those rider improvement days, I've heard they are awesome for learning fast cornering.

Sorry not muhc help.

[Lissa]

http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/corners/

Might help. Might not. Not had time to watch or read all cos I'm off to the Doc's:)

[Luckypants]

Now for something completely different (well not really..)


Giving throttle out of a corner, if the back starts to slip, what should your reaction be? Roll off to a neutral throttle, so little or no input to rear tyre from engine. Steer into skid. Clench buttocks to hold bike steady. Pray. ride out other side with big smile.

That's what I did last time this happened.

[Luckypants]

Cornering on a neutral throttle is probably the most unstable way to go round a corner. A neutral throttle allows the bike to move around on it's chasis.

Negative or positive throttle is the way into and out of corners.

Perhaps a misunderstanding over what I meant. Neutral throttle means holding a steady pace, in a corner this will mean that the bike needs to try accelerate gently to hold speed against the cornering forces.


I think we probably agree on technique Ape, just not on how to explain it! :-D

[ejohnh]

I went on a Bikesafe course with the Gwent Police in July. Before that I was well cautious corning in the dry and downright embarrassing cornering in the wet. It p*ssed down for both Bikesafe days but the copper I was with convinced me to trust my tyres. Now I am very much improved; still not totally confident but a lot better than I was ;) . The Hagons helped a lot as well.

Now I try never to go into a corner with a neutral throttle. I used to do that a lot when I first started back into biking, and the sv used to wave about like a flag.

Cornering is very much down to trusting your bike - most of us will give up and dive for the hedge before our bikes do.:D

[Stig]

I think we probably agree on technique Ape, just not on how to explain it! :-D

Not really sure we do. The only time I ever find myself on neutral / constant throttle is if it's a very long equal radius bend. Other than that it's closed throttle to the apex and continues increasing throttle out of the corner.

[Luckypants]

Not really sure we do. The only time I ever find myself on neutral / constant throttle is if it's a very long equal radius bend. Other than that it's closed throttle to the apex and continues increasing throttle out of the corner.
You are right, I try to never have a closed throttle in a corner. Always some power going to rear wheel to tension chain and settle the bike. Gradually wind on the power as the corner opens up.

[-Ralph-]

Not really sure we do. The only time I ever find myself on neutral / constant throttle is if it's a very long equal radius bend. Other than that it's closed throttle to the apex and continues increasing throttle out of the corner.

Roll in, blast out. Just a racers approach to cornering rather than an IAM approach. Fine if you know the limits of your tyres and you trust your bike, but no good for beginners. The positive throttle approach is best for those with confidence issues.

[sv-robo]

the only real way to learn is practice,practice ,practice trying differant techniques,then stick with what you feel most comfortable with.

as some have said,find a roundabout or a set of twisties which you know well.

[kitkat]

ed i am by no means a fast rider or even particularly confident. the IAM taught me lots. On the SV i looked up info to find out about power band etc so that when I approach corners I drop a gear or 2 or 3 depending on how sharp the corner. I used to keep sv at 7000 for going round corners as this gave loads of oomph and loads of engine braking should I need it. I dont lean bum off seat (well a lot of it is hanging off anyway). I keep toes on pegs, relax arms, get best vantage point on road, watch the vanishing point and chase it, if it starts coming towards me i ease off throttle. you have to ride the bike round the corner or you will drift. i ride the same in the wet as I do the dry. unfortunately this means im going too slow in the summer, but in the winter wow lol

unfortunately i now have a problem with braking and dont do it. any tips on braking would be useful but dont want to hijack this post.

[sv-robo]

unfortunately i now have a problem with braking and dont do it. any tips on braking would be useful .

yeah squeeze the lever a little;)

[kitkat]

yeah squeeze the lever a little;)

lol nah just cant do it. and if i do i cant let go ;)

[Pedrosa]

Once braking and positioning has been finished, the throttle should be re applied just to re establish drive at the rear wheel, this prevents undue forces on the front end and balances the bike again ready to turn in.

The gas should be constantly applied NOT increased until the apex of the turn has been spotted...then you can hit it as hard as you dare or your exit skills can control.

Riding through any point of any corner with the throttle rolled fully shut, is very wrong in my mind.:rolleyes:

It is also a complete nonsense to suggest that moving about on the bike is the only answer to good cornering. I do it, always have done but that was purely based on how I felt comfortable. There are many excellent riders who do no more than shift their upper body weight in conjunction with applying weight through the foot pegs and a touch of counter steer.

I am a believer also that after a certain amount of time, much of the above should become second nature to any rider, constant analyse simply creates paralysis...read....fear. Just my own opinion mind....carry on.:-s

[Blue_SV650S]

I don't think there is one technique that everyone should/does use, I don't even think that individuals technique should be the same for every corner ... i.e. some corners require different positioning on the bike, different lean and different brake and throttle usage ...

For this reason I am not sure it can be written down (in anything other than a large tome!).

So my offering here is some little 'tail view' clips I made* - if you watch them carefully/a few times and try and analyse what is going on, it will show you my chosen body position, throttle and brake usage. You will also notice that I initially partially set my body position up for a corner, then re-adjust as I am physically turning/reducing braking. One should note, this is how I go about business, not posting it as a definitive solution!! ;)

Couple of corners:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjl-a2Zgp-Y

For those with longer attention span!! :D (if you watch right to the end you are rewarded with me fecking up slightly!! :D)

You will notice that quite notably different body position etc etc is used depending on corner and if I am trying to calm the bike down or even make an overtake ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB_wh5bWbeo

*I always like an excuse to publish my vids .. I did go to that trouble of making them after all :oops:

[neio79]

I think we all need to grow some balls, rag it everywhere, hang off like a monkey anf scrape our knees at every opertuunity LOL :rolleyes:

[Stig]

I don't think there is one technique that everyone should/does use, I don't even think that individuals technique should be the same for every corner ... i.e. some corners require different positioning on the bike, different lean and different brake and throttle usage ...

For this reason I am not sure it can be written down (in anything other than a large tome!).

Which is what I was trying to say at the beginning.


So my offering here is some little 'tail view' clips I made* - if you watch them carefully/a few times and try and analyse what is going on, it will show you my chosen body position, throttle and brake usage. You will also notice that I initially partially set my body position up for a corner, then re-adjust as I am physically turning/reducing braking. One should note, this is how I go about business, not posting it as a definitive solution!! ;)


I think racing is quite different than road riding, but this does explain loosely about different body positioning etc. I also notice that only in the extended corners are you on neutral throttle. Most corners are either no throttle and on the brakes or throttle on coming out. Pretty much what I already said.



Couple of corners:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjl-a2Zgp-Y

For those with longer attention span!! :D (if you watch right to the end you are rewarded with me fecking up slightly!! :D)

You will notice that quite notably different body position etc etc is used depending on corner and if I am trying to calm the bike down or even make an overtake ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB_wh5bWbeo

*I always like an excuse to publish my vids .. I did go to that hassle of making them after all :oops:

I did enjoy watching the second vid. You have skills on the track that by far exceed my own. Which made watching the error at the end even better. :wink:

[Blue_SV650S]

... I think racing is quite different than road riding, but this does explain loosely about different body positioning etc...

It is and it isn't ...

True, when bumbling through town, my riding is nothing like that, but when I am 'getting it on' (on the road), I tend to find myself reverting to that sort of behaviour. It is scaled down somewhat (can't remember the last time I physically KD on the road for instance), but I do tend to start 'getting off' the bike, sticking my knee out and running it deeper into the apexes etc than when on a leisurely ride.





Lets face it, it was just a good excuse to fish out one of my old vids really :smt110

[Blue_SV650S]

This however is how NOT to take a corner!! :smt005

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHZx-_iGobA

[metalmonkey]

I will trying these ideas out when the weathers improves I'll be asking questions then, as some of the other mentioned cranking da bike over in the winter isn't a great idea.....roll on summer, winter sucks!

[Pedrosa]

Just maybe Ed should accept his own limitations? Some people simply do not have it within them to be as..well cavalier....as others.

I am sure Ed will not mind be stating that the accident he had, he has not yet been able to lock away from his mind and it dictates to a degree how he approaches his riding. More than 4 years riding now and an IAM certificate and yet the poor guy is still as nervous as hell.

Whereas brainless idiots like myself who have had a tumble or two over the years somehow learn from the knock and then are soon riding as care free as ever.

(And yes sonny I started before the days of DAS etc. Back then you applied for your provisional license and then got your ass along to buy your screaming 250cc first bike. Not saying it was better times,but boy you sure had to learn by yourself and fast!) shuffles off old farty styley.

[Demonz]

I will trying these ideas out when the weathers improves I'll be asking questions then, as some of the other mentioned cranking da bike over in the winter isn't a great idea.....roll on summer, winter sucks!

I've parked up for sunnier days. But I do think when its wet its a good oportunity to practice moving your butt off the seat. If anything to help the bike grip better.

[ejohnh]

(And yes sonny I started before the days of DAS etc. Back then you applied for your provisional license and then got your ass along to buy your screaming 250cc first bike. Not saying it was better times,but boy you sure had to learn by yourself and fast!) shuffles off old farty styley.


What are you implying? What does that actually mean?

[Pedrosa]

What are you implying? What does that actually mean?

The black humour of how it once was,obviously escaped you my friend.:rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

I would much rather have been on an RD250 when I was on provisional, would have been much more fun.

[Pedrosa]

I would much rather have been on an RD250 when I was on provisional, would have been much more fun.

Nah your wrong mate, bad boys had 250 Kawasaki triples.:cool:

[yorkie_chris]

Were they the ones with the extra hinge in the middle?

[Ed]

Just maybe Ed should accept his own limitations? Some people simply do not have it within them to be as..well cavalier....as others.

I am sure Ed will not mind be stating that the accident he had, he has not yet been able to lock away from his mind and it dictates to a degree how he approaches his riding. More than 4 years riding now and an IAM certificate and yet the poor guy is still as nervous as hell.

Whereas brainless idiots like myself who have had a tumble or two over the years somehow learn from the knock and then are soon riding as care free as ever.

(And yes sonny I started before the days of DAS etc. Back then you applied for your provisional license and then got your ass along to buy your screaming 250cc first bike. Not saying it was better times,but boy you sure had to learn by yourself and fast!) shuffles off old farty styley.

Oh Peter:smt005 'Nervous as hell' is excessive. 'Tends to over-anaylse' would be about right:D

[metalmonkey]

I've parked up for sunnier days. But I do think when its wet its a good oportunity to practice moving your butt off the seat. If anything to help the bike grip better.

I ride more less everyday now, but take it easeir in the cold weather and the wet. My back end lost grip last week, one moring about 515am, when it was really cold. So I don't like to push it, when there is less grip. I checked how warm my tyres were I got to work as well, they really weren't much warmer at all.

Soon as it picks up to being a bit warmer I will try then, but I don't see the point in doing it now, espically when I'm out on the bike at the start or the end of day the coldest times.

[yorkie_chris]

My back end lost grip last week, one moring about 515am, when it was really cold.

Same here, cold tyres, wet manhole cover ... sideways across a junction as the gap was fairly small and I gave it a bit much of the old loud handle!

[ASM-Forever]

I don't think there is one technique that everyone should/does use, I don't even think that individuals technique should be the same for every corner ... i.e. some corners require different positioning on the bike, different lean and different brake and throttle usage ...

For this reason I am not sure it can be written down (in anything other than a large tome!).

So my offering here is some little 'tail view' clips I made* - if you watch them carefully/a few times and try and analyse what is going on, it will show you my chosen body position, throttle and brake usage. You will also notice that I initially partially set my body position up for a corner, then re-adjust as I am physically turning/reducing braking. One should note, this is how I go about business, not posting it as a definitive solution!! ;)

Couple of corners:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjl-a2Zgp-Y

For those with longer attention span!! :D (if you watch right to the end you are rewarded with me fecking up slightly!! :D)

You will notice that quite notably different body position etc etc is used depending on corner and if I am trying to calm the bike down or even make an overtake ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB_wh5bWbeo

*I always like an excuse to publish my vids .. I did go to that trouble of making them after all :oops:

Blue...as always i enjoyed your vids(apart from ****-cam), but i think this guy has you beat. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iowgU3udnSc&feature=related

God i love youtube.

[Lozzo]

Nah your wrong mate, bad boys had 250 Kawasaki triples.:cool:

No, bad boys had Beckett proddy tuned RD350 top ends on their RD250s, with flappy L plates sellotaped on. The world's entire KH250 owners only had 3 brain cells between them, they drew straws to see who had them for that week.

I couln't faffed with all that L-plate rubbish, so I did my test within a week of my 17th and bought an RD400E 3 weeks later.

[Lozzo]

You know, I'm really rubbish at giving cornering advice, because I hate analysing how I ride - I just do what seems right at the time, and 99.99% of the time it works well enough for me. If anyone wants body positioning advice I'm really good at that though, got all the theory in my head, but I haven't a clue if I put it into practice when I'm on track.

[ejohnh]

The black humour of how it once was,obviously escaped you my friend.:rolleyes:

I learnt to ride on a 350cc trials bike in days that were obviously older than yours. I must admit that the 'humour' of your post escaped me. :rolleyes:

[Pedrosa]

I learnt to ride on a 350cc trials bike in days that were obviously older than yours. I must admit that the 'humour' of your post escaped me. :rolleyes:

Bit of a shame that then really.#-o

[fizzwheel]

Just maybe Ed should accept his own limitations? .

Maybe, no harm in asking for some help advice though or trying to learn a new skill or two. Every now and again when I have a crisis of confidence I go back to basics with my riding and it really helps to do so especially after a winter break.

I think its one of the things that makes biking different from driving. Most people me included would scoff at taking driving tips and technique advice from other people.

Yet I'm quite happy to sit down and read a magazine artilce or a website that gives me riding advice. I think as a biker you always want to ride a bit better or a bit smoother like somebody posted above you are learning all the time.

[Stig]

Every now and again when I have a crisis of confidence I go back to basics with my riding and it really helps to do so especially after a winter break.


Well there you are then, what do you expect. Your a summer rider. :roll: Now if you were to be biking all through the winter your skills would adapt to the weather. By the time the good weather was properly here, you would be a riding god like me.

:wink:

[fizzwheel]

Well I wouldnt be a proper power ranger if I rode through the winter now would I, can't get salt on the GSXR ohh nasty stuff ;) :D

[Stig]

Well I wouldnt be a proper power ranger if I rode through the winter now would I, can't get salt on the GSXR ohh nasty stuff ;) :D

Haven't you got one of those crappy SV things still :?: You could use that through the winter. After all, it's only an SV. Not even as good as a Deauville.

[fizzwheel]

Haven't you got one of those crappy SV things still :?: You could use that through the winter.

Yep still got it, its buried at the back of the garage and to get it out means moving two other bikes whic his a pain in the butt. the plan was to use it for commuting, but I've been using the pushbike to get to work as its cheaper and better for me.

I'm holding on to the SV till the spring then it's going up for sale.

[-Ralph-]

Just maybe Ed should accept his own limitations?

Accepting limitations isn't something that rings true for me. What if every biker that failed his test didn't re-apply, but just decided to accept their limitations?

I don't know Ed, you obviously do, but I'd conclude from the fact that he's asked the question, that he want's to improve? You have to work for what you want. Keep at it Ed!

[Pedrosa]

Accepting limitations isn't something that rings true for me. What if every biker that failed his test didn't re-apply, but just decided to accept their limitations?

I don't know Ed, you obviously do, but I'd conclude from the fact that he's asked the question, that he want's to improve? You have to work for what you want. Keep at it Ed!

I hardly think that failing the test should then cause one to give up on the idea. Not wishing at all to get on at Ed but we are talking of a rather basic motorcycling concept here and despite his experience he is not at ease with it.

I understand we all assess risk differently and some learn new skills more quickly than others, but sometimes just maybe lowering one's own personal expectations might serve more value.

Blasting along on straights only to anchor down to snails pace when a curve arrives does not seem like a whole lot of fun nor a safe way to be riding.

As I have mentioned earlier I think that fall Ed suffered has very likely caused quite an inhibiting mental obstacle for him which is a terrible shame.

[Beenz]

Accepting limitations isn't something that rings true for me. What if every biker that failed his test didn't re-apply, but just decided to accept their limitations?

I don't know Ed, you obviously do, but I'd conclude from the fact that he's asked the question, that he want's to improve? You have to work for what you want. Keep at it Ed!

I read it as just accepting that some people can be quicker through the twisties, over time and with enough riding experience he may improve. The point is that no one should feel under pressure to go quicker than what they are comfortable with.

[Blue_SV650S]

... The point is that no one should feel under pressure to go quicker than what they are comfortable with.

er - Ed is not feeling pressured ... just wants to be more confident/faster ... is it not human nature to strive to be 'better' (in areas one chooses)??!!???!?! :thumbsup:

[Pedrosa]

er - Ed is not feeling pressured ... just wants to be more confident/faster ... is it not human nature to strive to be 'better' (in areas one chooses)??!!???!?! :thumbsup:

Sorry Blue I disagree. I definitely think Ed feels pressure to be better. That along with a hint of perhaps disillusionment at his achievements thus far. Self imposed pressure it might be, based on watching others negotiate bends in a way that he presently feels is still beyond him.


A lot of what we are talking about here is largely "feel" and judgement based on your understanding of the basic principals of what you are trying to achieve. Someone who does not have the "feeling" or is not relaxed before trying to push the envelope a little further, will to my thinking always struggle.

[Ed]

Perhaps a statement from the talking horse himself would serve well instead of all the supposition that's going on.

Everyone is different. By nature I am innately conservative. And part of my job is to point out risks to people and to advise them on how they can manage the risks better. I'm always risk-conscious. I don't see that as a bad thing.

So perhaps it's unsurprising that I approach biking with the same mindset. I try hard to avoid the 'Oh ****' situation where poor planning has left no escape route.

I came off on a left hand corner, because I thought I was going to collide with oncoming, grabbed the front brake, and lowsided at 45 - 50mph.

I've long wanted to improve cornering technique. When you've hit the ground hard, you don't want to do it again. I don't think I'm at risk of that any more. I learned a hard lesson that day.

I can get round a corner perfectly safely, I'm not a basket case. I'd simply like to be able to do it better. Naturally there is always a 'what if' thought that influences this - but IMHO any biker should think the same. The issue of how far up the priority list that is for any individual will vary. For me, it's high.

Perhaps Peter is right, that it's not really a mechanical issue, that it's a confidence issue severely affected by the events of 7 June 2004.

But that doesn't mean to say that (a) I should give up, or (b) that there is no scope for improvement.

I won't give up on this, I like the challenge.

[kitkat]

when i was learning to corner. my iam instructor took me to a twisty road that i knew. we then did the route at about 20 mph (i was really really bad at riding) he stopped and discussed the vanishing point. took me ages before I actually realised what it was. we then did the same route again at 30 then 35 then 40. as its a road I knew I didnt have to be scared of the corner as i knew it was not going to suddenly tighten up on me.

now i can go out and ride roads i have never been on before ie cat and fiddle and snake pass on Annual Run 04 confidently.

i still dont push myself as i worry about coming off and what will happen to my kids if i end up in hospital for a week or so.

i can keep up with most people on rideouts (not carelesschucka) (saying that i used to be able to)

just get out there ed and take your time. once you grasp the vanishing point your speed will pick up.

[sv-robo]

This however is how NOT to take a corner!! :smt005

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHZx-_iGobA
guarranted knee down action:)

[Pedrosa]

Perhaps a statement from the talking horse himself would serve well instead of all the supposition that's going on.

Everyone is different. By nature I am innately conservative. And part of my job is to point out risks to people and to advise them on how they can manage the risks better. I'm always risk-conscious. I don't see that as a bad thing.

So perhaps it's unsurprising that I approach biking with the same mindset. I try hard to avoid the 'Oh ****' situation where poor planning has left no escape route.

I came off on a left hand corner, because I thought I was going to collide with oncoming, grabbed the front brake, and lowsided at 45 - 50mph.

I've long wanted to improve cornering technique. When you've hit the ground hard, you don't want to do it again. I don't think I'm at risk of that any more. I learned a hard lesson that day.

I can get round a corner perfectly safely, I'm not a basket case. I'd simply like to be able to do it better. Naturally there is always a 'what if' thought that influences this - but IMHO any biker should think the same. The issue of how far up the priority list that is for any individual will vary. For me, it's high.

Perhaps Peter is right, that it's not really a mechanical issue, that it's a confidence issue severely affected by the events of 7 June 2004.

But that doesn't mean to say that (a) I should give up, or (b) that there is no scope for improvement.

I won't give up on this, I like the challenge.

That's the spirit Ed. Good luck with it.:thumbsup:

[Stig]

I go by my original statement. It's easy to give 'advice' on better cornering, but without being able to Ed going round these corners the only advice being given out is what worked for them, not necessarily what would work for Ed.

I stand by my statement Ed. I am convinced some additional training specifically in cornering would do you far better than taking all our own experience advice.

[K]

I can get round a corner perfectly safely, I'm not a basket case. I'd simply like to be able to do it better. Naturally there is always a 'what if' thought that influences this - but IMHO any biker should think the same. The issue of how far up the priority list that is for any individual will vary. For me, it's high.

Perhaps Peter is right, that it's not really a mechanical issue, that it's a confidence issue severely affected by the events of 7 June 2004.

But that doesn't mean to say that (a) I should give up, or (b) that there is no scope for improvement.

I won't give up on this, I like the challenge.

Following on from this, are you still on the same bike as June '04? Or the same but different? (Eg another of the same make/model kinda thing.)

Wondering if there's a certain level of associative distrust thing going on.

[Tim in Belgium]

Go on a track day, this improved my cornering loads, you don't have to worry about gravel/dirt/on coming traffic etc and makes you realise what your bike can do. Get one or two booked in and it will help your road riding too, not that I ride on the road like I do on track.

[fizzwheel]

Following on from this, are you still on the same bike as June '04? Or the same but different? (Eg another of the same make/model kinda thing.)

Wondering if there's a certain level of associative distrust thing going on.

different I believe.

[Ed]

different I believe.

Quite so.

I crashed on a SV:rolleyes:

Current ride's a Daytona 650.

I'm out tomoz so I will practise some of the advice on here:thumbsup:

[lukemillar]

Typically I ride around on the balls of my feet with toes pointing at the ground. On entry into a corner I try to point my inside foot into the corner so my knee is pointing the right way. Well sort of. But that's about as far as I get, further body movement doesn't happen.

CSS maybe?

Edit - 600+ and Luckypants replied as I was typing. You are both right. Having come off badly once, I don't want to repeat - so it has taken me three years to get to this stage. I want to improve...

I would definitely recommend CSS! I think you would get a hell of a lot from it. The day is very enjoyable and being on a racetrack, means you can go over the same corners again and again to really start unpicking smooth cornering in a safer environment (than the road anyway). You'd be amazed how much your confidence will improve :). Like Bigape says, it's difficult to give advice without seeing you (and even then I doubt I'm qualified enough anyway! :wink:) but the superbike school is definitely worthwhile.

[Sean_C]

Having spoken to Ed, I believe that if he wants to become a better rider, all he has to do is decide thats what he wants, and he'll do it. Did that make sense?

[Pedrosa]

Having spoken to Ed, I believe that if he wants to become a better rider, all he has to do is decide thats what he wants, and he'll do it. Did that make sense?

Ed could pm me and I will be happy to detail my now perfected 50p. cornering technique.:p

[Biker Biggles]

Your expensive cornering technique doesnt impress me.I use the thruppeny bit method.

[TOY40]

I have this corner on my route that i go round at Xmph, went round it y'day at X +10mph wont be doing that again in a hurry,big moment!but i got it back.Now how to remove those stains.!!

[skint]

Do you have a Triumph Daytona Ed? I had the 955i and it handled like a dream but it took a few rides to find that out.

You don't need to climb off your bike, I stripped the chicken strips of mine without doing that although it is fun to do.

I got there by following others, more experienced (Beenz mainly), looking at their style and positioning, even watch the left foot for gear changes (best you can). Need to relax and trust your bike. I switched from BT14 tyres to Metz M1's - I think this coincided with my growth in confidence. Use a higher gear through the corners so you can't over rev and spit the rear out.

My advice for what its worth in summary:

Learn to trust your bike - they are incredible and will take an lot - but practice on roads you know well.
Choose tyres that make you feel more confident
Relax
Use a higher gear and roll the bike around
Ride more with other peple and watch them carefully. You will know those that you feel right about.

[Beenz]

Ed, just get on more rideouts with some faster riders and watch the lines and braking etc. Have a word with the odd one to ride behind you and provide constructive crticism. And listen.

I've said it once and I stick by it ED, short of tuition has to be a good way of learning. Time to ring up yer mates in time for spring.

[cuffy]

I'd have to agree with beenz and skint, find a mate who's a decent rider and get them to follow you and give constructive critisism, also following them does help too an extent.
I have used the "if he can get round that corner that fast, so can i" technique...not recommended for the heart or underpants ;)

My cornering improved 10 fold after a track day, gives you more confidence in your tyres.
When it comes to wet weather...a child on a tricycle could do me on a roundabout...i'm ar$e :(

[Alpinestarhero]

I'd have to agree with beenz and skint, find a mate who's a decent rider and get them to follow you and give constructive critisism, also following them does help too an extent.
I have used the "if he can get round that corner that fast, so can i" technique...not recommended for the heart or underpants ;)

My cornering improved 10 fold after a track day, gives you more confidence in your tyres.
When it comes to wet weather...a child on a tricycle could do me on a roundabout...i'm ar$e :(

I used said method in the summer when following my dad, and my mate, except it was modified to "if he can do that at X mph, I can do it easy at X-5 mph"

And I did

And i learnt alot

Then i forgot it

Matt

[kitkat]

Use a higher gear and roll the bike around
.

does this not make the bike run wide. i always thought you had to ride round the corner and that if you came off the power the bike would drift. have i been doing it wrong all these years?

[fizzwheel]

had to ride round the corner and that if you came off the power the bike would drift.

I found that I can gently roll the throttle off without the bke running wide, but if you suddenly snap the throttle shut then yep it sits the bike up and it'll run wide just like it does if you pull on the front brake.

I might be wrong but I think Skint was getting at using a higher gear and a whiff of throttle and then leting the bike pull itself round...

[Stig]

I always go into a corner in a lesser gear than I possibly could do. I do this so I can use the engine breaking to slow down more if I have over cooked the throttle.

I don't understand how shutting off the throttle makes the bike stand up in a corner :?:

[Ed]

I'd have to agree with beenz and skint, find a mate who's a decent rider and get them to follow you and give constructive critisism, also following them does help too an extent.


After I posted this I had quite a few PMs. One of the board has very kindly offered to do precisely this. It was a PM, so I'm not saying who it was, but suffice to say that I'm very grateful for the offer:D

[Blue_SV650S]

After I posted this I had quite a few PMs. One of the board has very kindly offered to do precisely this. It was a PM, so I'm not saying who it was, but suffice to say that I'm very grateful for the offer:D

Yeah, but I have since realised you live >200 miles from me and now withdraw the offer*!! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:




















*and no everyone, it wasn't really me!! ;) ... but who the hell** thinks enough of themselves to offer to comment/criticise someone else's riding?

**unless they are trained IAM etc observers I suppose ... but then - surely you would just go on an IAM run?

[Ed]

Hey Blue, don't let the distance stop you...

Person concerned is a terrific rider and i trust their opinion 100%:D

[philipMac]

I don't understand how shutting off the throttle makes the bike stand up in a corner :?:

So... i think the reason it does this is, when you have the throttle cracked on, the engine is pulling on the chain. And the chain is pulling on the back wheel, trying to move it forward.
*But* the back wheel is on a swingarm, and the engine is mounted in the frame.
So, in effect the when the chain is being tightened, it is pulling the wheel forward but it is also squeezing or compressing the rear shock making the bike squat down.
When you left go of the throttle, this compression releases, and the bike sits up since now only gravity is compressing the rear shock.




Its a right bugger when you are in the jet black dark, no street lights, on a corner, and you let off the throttle even though you know bloody well you shouldnt, and suddenly you head light is pointing in the wrong place and you can see nothing...
Doh.
Repeat 10 times.
Dont let go of the throttle in a corner phil. Dont let go of the throttle in a corner. Dont let go of the throttle in a corner. Dont let go of the throttle in a corner. Dont let go of the throttle in a corner. Dont let go of the throttle in a corner...

[philipMac]

I used said method in the summer when following my dad, and my mate, except it was modified to "if he can do that at X mph, I can do it easy at X-5 mph"

And I did

And i learnt alot

Then i forgot it

Matt

ha ha.
Do you know what's worse? My mate, on a fecking BMW Adventure, can leave me on my SV650 on the corners.

Very sad.
When we swap bikes, he just instantly vanishes on the SV, and I trundle along on the B'mer (which is actually surprisingly nimble in corners.... ahem. Yeah. Not really as nimble as the sv though is it?)

[skint]

I found that I can gently roll the throttle off without the bke running wide, but if you suddenly snap the throttle shut then yep it sits the bike up and it'll run wide just like it does if you pull on the front brake.

I might be wrong but I think Skint was getting at using a higher gear and a whiff of throttle and then leting the bike pull itself round...

Probably:D its easier to do than explain. In a higher gear if you twist the grip a bit too much you don't get a snatch and the risk of the back wheel spinning.

Kit Kat, yes your right but its quite ok to let the engine pull you round whilst you understand the balance of your bike and just how far it will lean. its good for cruising too. You still need to throttle out of the bend but it doesn't have to be hard and its easier to control in a higher gear. When i first replaced the rear tyres on my Daytona I nearly lost the rear on a roundabout. Beenz explained to just let the bike take the roundabout use a higher gear to pull out - worked a dream. I always use this with new tyres and in the wet.

Of course on good dry roads with bedded in tyres, well... :smt077