View Full Version : Child Dies In Quad Bike Accident
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=504711&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART
I have mixed feelings about this. I feel very sorry for the girl who died, I feel very sorry for the woman who hit her, and while I feel sympathy for the father for losing his daughter, if he hadn't allowed his children to ride illegally on a public road he would still have her. Whether he should be prosecuted or not I still can't decide.
What do you think?
dont see that prosecuting will make any difference. just puts costs onto courts etc. I would imagine it was one of those roads that hardly anyone goes down and dad probably thought it would be safe. thats the problem with buying these quadbikes and off road bikes unless you have your own field you probably dont get a chance to use it much. feel sorriest for the other driver.
dissuade
31-12-07, 10:50 AM
Putting him in jail is not going to make much of a difference. He's just lost his kid, that's probably worse than any jail sentence he is likely to receive. He was totally reckless, and now he has paid for it.
There is a reason why kids aren't supposed to drive.
the_lone_wolf
31-12-07, 10:55 AM
i'd always felt the father has nobody but himself to blame for this, the initial reports suggested the other driver had failed a breath test, now that it appears that isn't the case but i'm still inclined to say the father was not just irresponsible, but reckless. i mean who in their right mind buys a 7-year-old a 100cc non-road-legal quad bike, then takes them out, at night, along a country lane
tragic as it is, it was blatantly a stupid thing to do, a conviction would send more of a message, rather than a custodial sentence...
Fizzy Fish
31-12-07, 11:00 AM
I don't think there's anything to be gained by prosecuting the parents, but have real mixed feelings about this one in general.
I've met a lot of kids who ride relatvely high powered quads, some extremely well and aged much younger than 16 (the legal age to ride on roads). And in South Africa recently we did a quad tour which, due to unforseen circumstances, ended up being lead by an 11 yr old girl who dealt extremely comnpetently with roads, wild animals and some very tough terrain, and had a real good head on her shoulders.
Thinking of these individuals I do have some sympathy for the father who thought that a supervised run down a quiet local road with him driving in front would be OK.
Clearly in this case it was a dangerous call to make as the girl was unfortunately killed, but I suspect that this type of thing happens (safely) quite a lot, esp in farming communities.
I'm not saying what he did was right but it's just food for thought really...
Putting him in jail is not going to make much of a difference. He's just lost his kid, that's probably worse than any jail sentence he is likely to receive. He was totally reckless, and now he has paid for it.
There is a reason why kids aren't supposed to drive.
+1 on that, I dont think sending the father to jail is goin to make a big difference, he,s probably been punished enough already but these will become more common if adults buy vehicles for children and then let them go off unattended.
Luckypants
31-12-07, 12:07 PM
I feel so sorry for all involved. The whole family has a life sentence of grief and "what if's". The father was reckless to let the kids out on a lane, in the dark and following his car. (if I read the report correctly) BUT without knowing the family, it would be unwise to draw from this if he is a bad dad or just made one bad decision.
Prosecution is probably a sensible to course to 'send out a message' because it may make other parents think twice. Jail or even a heavy fine would be unreasonable given the circumstances. The poor guy has paid a price no parent wants.
timwilky
31-12-07, 01:32 PM
I honestly believe the parents must be prosecuted. Their reckless behaviour in encouraging the children to ride on the road a motor vehicle directly led to the death of a child.
Do I feel for anyone? Yes the poor woman who collided with this child. She will always feel the guilt of having killed a child, initial reports of failed drink/drug tests etc would probably have led to fingers pointing and no doubt some pretty nasty comments.
-Ralph-
31-12-07, 01:35 PM
Heavily publicising the tragedy and showing people what can happen to thier children would achieve a lot more than a prosecution, thats just a quickly forgotten news story, not a warning. The guy caused the death of his child, his life is already ruined through his own negligence, I'm surprised he hasn't topped himself already. A prosecution will serve no benefit.
I don't agree with what the spokesperson is saying about not letting children use quad bikes on private land. Most of the ones designed for use by children have both a throttle restrictor so you chose how much gas the child can give it, and a remote control kill switch which you hold in your hand in case they suddenly develop an attraction to the nearest wall.
A quad bike is a dream toy for most kids and perfectly safe if used on spacious flat ground under supervision from a responsible adult.
Lets not forget the car could have hit a bicycle or a wee pedal along go-kart and killed the kid just the same. The quad bike is not to blame here.
its idoits like this that spoil it for the proper off roaders.
Pedrosa
31-12-07, 05:28 PM
its idoits like this that spoil it for the proper off roaders.
I fail to see either the logic or the relevance of your comment at this point mate?:confused:
Ok it was illegal for those kids to be riding their quads on the public road. I accept that. The father thought that him driving in front for the kids to follow on a largely desserted road would be a safe gamble to take.
Sadly his thinking can now be seen to be flawed due to a 1 in a million type accident. It is too tragic for words really and I feel for the parents and the poor woman...who is known to the parents of the dead child.
I am open minded about prosecution of the father and think that perhaps the folly and consequences of his actions might be sending out a strong enough message as it is.
wheelnut
31-12-07, 06:28 PM
It seems as though prosecution for the Father is a bit late. What do they do? give him a suspended sentence, if he kills the other one in the same way, he goes to prison](*,)
I feel rather sorry for the woman who was driving the Range Rover. She knew the family and taught the little girl at school. How can she live with that?
Last year the same thing happened quite close to my house. It was all forgotten quite soon.
Kids should not be riding quads or bikes on a public road, but where did we all start? I know I did anyway.
Balky001
31-12-07, 07:11 PM
Ok it was illegal for those kids to be riding their quads on the public road. I accept that. The father thought that him driving in front for the kids to follow on a largely desserted road would be a safe gamble to take.
Sadly his thinking can now be seen to be flawed due to a 1 in a million type accident. It is too tragic for words really and I feel for the parents and the poor woman...who is known to the parents of the dead child.
I am open minded about prosecution of the father and think that perhaps the folly and consequences of his actions might be sending out a strong enough message as it is.
I agree with you Peter, he took a chance which was poorly judged and led to tragic consequences which he never thought would become a reality - I don't think prosecuting the father is in the public's or the victim's interests. Hopefully it will raise awareness of the dangers of quad bikes ridden on the road by children and bring the risks home to the parents who allow them to ride.
Bluepete
31-12-07, 07:46 PM
However devastatig this tragic sequence of events was for all concerned, lets not forget, SOMEONE DIED!
In the circumstances reported in the article, I fail to see how a prosecution could fail. Just look at the ages of the kids, loocation, types of vehicle, where the parent appeared to be.
Yes, he will suffer in his heart for it, but the courts should decide if he was to blame for the death by his innaction or neglect.
From what's in the article, there wasn't proper supervision aiming to observe and protect these kids, this was basically just hoping the kids would be alright while they fetched granny in the big car.
16 year olds have to do a minimum full day's CBT with an instructor to ride on the road. These kids must have had maybe a couple of hours practice, even without questioning lower competence due to age?!!!
Such a shame that common sense and money don't always go together. This is hardly a borderline case of bad judgement, though. So, IMHO, these parents should be prosecuted if they have broken a law and directly led to this death.
its idoits like this that spoil it for the proper off roaders.
Comment well made. :roll: Rather a narrow minded and selfish response I'd say.
i think that everone who posted a commet on this subject have not relised one major thing......
the girl was 7 years old .........................
7 years old
7 years old
thats a child for gods sake.......
what does a 7 year old know ? road sense ? speed ? safetey ? ................
look around you and see 7 year olds at school and think about one of them
on a 100 cc quad following u in your car down a dark lane !!!!
i feel sorry for their parents but would u,
would any one do the same ????????????
-Ralph-
01-01-08, 12:16 PM
i think that everone who posted a commet on this subject have not relised one major thing......
the girl was 7 years old .........................
7 years old
7 years old
thats a child for gods sake.......
what does a 7 year old know ? road sense ? speed ? safetey ? ................
look around you and see 7 year olds at school and think about one of them
on a 100 cc quad following u in your car down a dark lane !!!!
i feel sorry for their parents but would u,
would any one do the same ????????????
I personaly didn't loose sight of the fact the girl was seven. Would I do the same? Not down a public road no.
My in-laws are French, where population is similar to the UK but the country is twice the size of the cramped wee island we live on. Land is cheap and people tend to have much bigger gardens, paddocks attached to houses, etc and miles of wee farm tracks criss crossing the countryside. Many of the kids age 6-7 upwards have wee quads, you can buy them in any supermarket for 300 quid.
50cc or 100cc doesn't matter 'cos you set how far the throttle can be opened with a screw mechanism, it's a thumb push, but compare it to a twist grip on a bike. Doesn't matter if it's 100cc if the kid can only physically twist he grip by 1/4 inch. You can set them to do no more than crawl along at 5mph at max 1500 revs if you want. You give them more power as and when you see fit - "Daddy, when can I have my Quad going faster?", "When your eight we'll make it a bit faster"
As well as that you are with them with a remote control kill switch which you hit as soon as they deviate from the path they've been told to take. They soon learn to ride exactly how and where you've told them, 'cos they don't want daddy to hit the kill switch and spoil thier fun. It's more fun to do as thier told and be allowed to continue riding.
The picture is of a 7 year old. This on on my brother in laws driveway, but she drives in the garden, in fields and on farm tracks and she's competent and she behaves 'cos she knows daddys holding the kill switch and watching like a hawk.
Kids of seven can ride these things at the Scottish motorcycle show, it how you control the environment and your assessment of the childs capabilities, both physically and mentally that matters.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd82/colinbal4/CIMG2686.jpg
how sad. It was obviously a foolish thing to do, but to put him in an overpopulated prison doesnt seem necessary, he will punish himself enough I'm sure.
My kids ride a 100cc quad, on private land and supervised by their dad. We are not together, and I always worry that he supervises them properly, and I rely on him making proper decisions about their safety in my abscense ... this story emphasises my concerns that even as a parent, people can make decisions that something should be ok, when obviously it is not.
It took me several minutes to decide whether to read the story, I shall certainly be repeating it to my kids dad.
Again, very sad
i'm sorry but i really must be a old fuddy duddy........
when my kids were 7 year olds i would never have let them even cross the road by them selfs.........
maybe i'm just too over the top....worry worry worry......
so hearing a child riding on the road is really beyond me...........
i'm getting too old for this.:nomore:
and for sending the parent to prison / for how long ? / for ever ?
untill he knows it was wrong ? / untill he showes remorse ?
whats the point now ?
-Ralph-
01-01-08, 10:35 PM
i'm sorry but i really must be a old fuddy duddy........
when my kids were 7 year olds i would never have let them even cross the road by them selfs.........
maybe i'm just too over the top....worry worry worry......
so hearing a child riding on the road is really beyond me...........
i'm getting too old for this.:nomore:
Your not a fuddy duddy or too old at all, a child riding on the road is plain stupid, and the 7 year old above isn't allowed to cross the road by herself either. But the road is not a safely controlled environment, whereas her quad bike riding is.
To cross the road you choose a safe place and hold the childs hand right? To let them ride a quad bike you choose a safe place and hold thier metaphorical hand, the remote kill switch. She wouldn't be allowed to ride the quad bike unsupervised, just as she'd never be allowed to cross the road unsupervised.
SoulKiss
01-01-08, 10:46 PM
Father should be locked up.
Really glad to see that the woman involved WASNT drunk, but now she has to deal with the fact that some moron decided that a non-road legal quad should be allowed on the road by a 7 year old child, at night.
Maybe I am just biased against quads, but then as a a-hole on a non-road legal tried to take me out on AR07 because he couldnt be bothered waiting for the stream of bikes he could see to go past him, thought that the gap in front of me was big enough for him to cross the road from the right side, and have me effectively do an emergency stop (I didnt actually stop, but did 60ish to about 5 or 10 mph quicker than Rossi does it the other way round.)
So in my opinon, father is completely responsible and should be done for reckless endangerment (if there is such a thing) of 2 children and some kind of manslaughter charge for the daughter.
Prosecution is pointless here, the punishment has been dealt. If people don't learn from this (and sadly many won't) they won't learn from any prosecutions or our general criticism.
Bottom line is a kid died for all the wrong reasons, those involved must know what they did wrong and will have that on their conscience for ever (no sympathy just a fact)
He won't be locked up as the prisons are full and he is not a risk to the public, but he will have to live with the fact that he killed his own child.
Hi
I have not read the report, but he will not be prosecuted. the cps will decide nearest and dearest, he has suffered enough. I do feel for the woman, she will never recover also.
To be honest,even if the police do prosecute I dont think he will give a crap. He already has the worst sentence any person can have, the death of their child by their own actions. My own daughter is 7 and I cannot begin to imagine the pain from her death let alone if I was responsible.
I am sure that in his own mind he had weighed up the risks and thought it was ok. They probably dont see a car from one day to the next along that road, but a tragic sequence of events has led to this childs death. Do I think he was completey stupid, in hind sight yes. Do I think he should be prosecuted, yes but not to punish him as I dont think you can. It would be more to send a message to others about the danger of public roads.
It is always hard for a parent to balance risk without suffocating development.
gettin2dizzy
02-01-08, 05:11 PM
It's made the news and highlighted the dangers; that's all the prosecution was designed to do.
Not everyone is an idiot so it's quite likely the circumstances weren't as dangerous as they're hyped up to be. Everyone on here seems very quick to jump up and mention how much better they are/know with very little information to base this on.
This is a practice repeated by many a country dweller and a very rare freak accident. It's absolutely tragic but shielding children from responsibility does no one any good.
wyrdness
02-01-08, 06:58 PM
Not everyone is an idiot so it's quite likely the circumstances weren't as dangerous as they're hyped up to be. Everyone on here seems very quick to jump up and mention how much better they are/know with very little information to base this on.
This is a practice repeated by many a country dweller and a very rare freak accident. It's absolutely tragic but shielding children from responsibility does no one any good.
We do know quite a few of the circumstances from the news reports:
A 7 year old kid was driving a motor vehicle on a public road.
It was at 7pm at night, in the dark, on an unlit road.
The kid had owned the quad bike for only 1 day.
The parents had allowed this.
Given that, I don't see how you can say 'it's quite likely the circumstances weren't as dangerous as they're hyped up to be'. Of course it's dangerous to let completely inexperienced 7 year olds drive on public roads. The fact that the kid was killed confirms this. She could easily have swerved into the path of the incoming vehicle.
"shielding children from responsibility does no one any good"
That is just an unbelievably stupid statement, in the circumstances. Are you suggesting that the parents were right to let her drive a motor vehicle on a public road?
its idoits like this that spoil it for the proper off roaders.
I fail to see either the logic or the relevance of your comment at this point mate?:confused:just that there will be a clampdown on offroading and the do-gooders will want all off road bikes banned.
Rather a narrow minded and selfish response I'd say.
yes, i agree but the father is an idiot (IMO)
a seven year old on a 100cc quad
on a public road
in the dark
Very Sad, I think the parents should face prosecution. The punishment maybe light, there is a case to answer here.
The article goes on the say..
A spokesman for road safety charity Brake, said: "Even with permission to use the machines on private land, children shouldn't be put in control of them. The sheer power and speed of them is dangerous wherever they are used."
Children are often given control of horses at 7 they are much more unpredictable, No Kill Switch on them.
i just wonder what would be said if i had an accident on my bike with one of my kids as pillion.(touch wood it never happens)
biking community may be ok but the general public would flame me. highly irresponsible to take a child on the back of a motorbike.
The father made the decision, chose a quiet road, quiet time of day and still the unimaginable happened. sad sad story. poor man. poor kid. really feel for other driver
gettin2dizzy
03-01-08, 03:26 PM
We do know quite a few of the circumstances from the news reports:
A 7 year old kid was driving a motor vehicle on a public road.
It was at 7pm at night, in the dark, on an unlit road.
The kid had owned the quad bike for only 1 day.
The parents had allowed this.
Given that, I don't see how you can say 'it's quite likely the circumstances weren't as dangerous as they're hyped up to be'. Of course it's dangerous to let completely inexperienced 7 year olds drive on public roads. The fact that the kid was killed confirms this. She could easily have swerved into the path of the incoming vehicle.
"shielding children from responsibility does no one any good"
That is just an unbelievably stupid statement, in the circumstances. Are you suggesting that the parents were right to let her drive a motor vehicle on a public road?
I was saying I find it amazingly arrogant that that everybody thinks that they know best. This forum is full of people who enjoy indulging in other peoples mistakes to somehow boost their ego. You wrote that statement like you were presenting it in court :confused:
We all make mistakes, we're only human.
I was saying I find it amazingly arrogant that that everybody thinks that they know best. This forum is full of people who enjoy indulging in other peoples mistakes to somehow boost their ego. You wrote that statement like you were presenting it in court :confused:
We all make mistakes, we're only human.
Isn't it by debating such things that we all learn to gauge what's a reasonable risk and acceptable bahaviour? Everyone's opinion is a valid offering, even if agreement is rare.
In this case, it seems most posters are agreeing that they don't believe that the 7 year old kid should have been put in that position, so it makes it all the more unbelievable when someone (i.e. the parent) judges that it is OK. Is there anyone reading this who would have allowed a 7 year old out in the reported circumstances?
El Saxo
06-01-08, 09:25 AM
Something occurred to me, in regards to whether the parents should be prosecuted...
FWIW I can see where people are coming from with the idea that they've suffered enough, their child was killed etc, but the underlying issue here is that their neglect / stupidity has caused the death of a child.
If any other parent caused a child to die through neglect, albeit under different circumstances, they would likely be prosecuted for child abuse, so why should they be any different?
Parents nowadays can be prosecuted just for allowing their children to play truant from school, so surely there is a very strong case for prosecution in allowing, even encouraging something as dangerous as allowing a child to ride a quad on a public road?
Pedrosa
06-01-08, 09:49 AM
The one question which still puzzles me about this case is the fact that the family live on some kind of farm? Some web sites showed a gated entrance to a long driveway. There was very possibly even much more land for the quad to be ridden on?
Why,oh why did they decide on a pootle on a public road then?
grh1904
06-01-08, 10:08 AM
i
i feel sorry for their parents but would u,
No, not really.
I feel that he brought this on himself, and only has himself to blame.
My take:
Someone (a child) died. The parent brought this death on. The parent should be prosecuted.
yorkie_chris
07-01-08, 01:08 PM
We used to mess around with all sorts of baby-petrolhead stuff, probably from age 8 upwards when I had a little BSA 50.
Sometimes being silly with friends led to the public road, but we'd had our bike's for more than a day :rolleyes: Complete stupidity yes, but all fun and games at the time, nobody got hurt (badly).
I just feel sorry for the parents in this case, what a bunch of f###ing idiots.
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