View Full Version : London Bikers beware - Operation "wastemoretime"
Its the new year, i've taken a new leaf with regards to riding in London. No longer will I let the idiots and plumbs wind me up, no longer will the traffic annoy. From now on, a nice simple easy ride home...
So, the first attempt last night.
Plodding along, stopped in front of a police car at a set of lights, no biggie?? He then followed me from Morgate, to London Bridge, pulls up next to me, tells me to pull over.... OK??
So pull over, get the old typical neo nazi approach from the coppers. Im polite, not my usual argumentitive self, let him get on with it.
"So what am I meant to have done then" after 3 minutes of these guys yapping. Jumped 3 red lights.. I actually laughed at them and asked them if they are joking? I do NOT jump red lights (someone done that and shatted my old mans thigh/hip in 20 places, 1 year later, hes back walking....)..
I told them simpley "no I didn't, how could I have jumped the lights if you had to stop next to me to pull me over, at the lights, that were red???"
Well, according to the "new operation starting tomorrow (Today...)" like they were fining cyclists for jumping the red lights, bike riders are now being given 3 points for stopping past the first white line and stopping in the cycle bay area. According to him "your riding was spot on, but you past the line hence jumped 3 sets of lights"
So i get a nice little pink ticket. I don't get a fine or points (i'd have contested anyway), but I do get a nice warning that they are clamping down on bikes stopping at lights, in the cycle lane. His words "what if you loose balance and topple over onto a cyclist"? I had to hold my anger at this point. Why would you drop your bike whilst sitting on it? Why would that matter anyway, it'll be my damage, since when did cyclists require insurance? But thats ok, we'lll all stop between the cars at lights instead, as thats FAR safer than all the bikes/cyclists stopping at the front. We all know bikes are such slow machines off the line :(
I wonder if they will continue to pull cyclists at the same time as that operation has now finished.............
For real, really, its good to see the MET doing the usual of spending important time catching real criminals stopping 1m past the first white line at traffic lights. Gee, heres me thinking London had far bigger fish to fry....
I guess not....... So London bikers beware.
Rant over. Great 1st day back at work.... :smt013
Bluepete
03-01-08, 09:49 AM
We don't help ourselves do we?
I do think this bike lane is heading the right way though!
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/conker51/Bike%20cam/_41443704_vauxhall.jpg
Never gone over a white line or seen anyone do it to be honest, is this a London practice?
Most lights around here have red light cameras, if you go over onto the pad, you get caught.
Commen practice in london.
I NEVER jump lights, but all the cars stop, all the bikes filter to the front. By the time the first car driver puts it in 1st gear when the lights go green, the bikes are already gone.
Lane area like this.
http://www.cycle-routes.org/cycle-gateshead/logos/advanced_stop_line.jpg
Go ANYWHERE in that green area, and your off your road and can get all sorts of fines.
Wonder what the fines are for cyclists going onto the road? OR hitting a car/bike? Wonder what their insurance would do........
Seriously, yet another reason to get out this sh1tty sh1tty city...... :mad:
Commen sense really is not needed in todays age im sure.
Bluepete
03-01-08, 09:56 AM
Highway code rule 178.
And I had to go and look it up, I didn't know the answer straight away, 'cos I've got better things to do in my life!
I jsut dont get it?
They pay no tax
They pay no insurance
Never really get hit with fines
Don't get points.
Get their own lanes
But lo and behold, if your a road tax paying, insured, legal, up to date, but stop or even touch the cyclists lanes, you run the risk of points and fines (which could even lead to prison?).
:mad:
I was so calm, new year, new start, but my first day back proves i really need to find a job out of this cr4ppy city. Only 1 year + looking in Kent now for a 1/2 remotley decent job :(
Fizzy Fish
03-01-08, 10:05 AM
noooo, that sucks! I had heard that this was on the cards, but was hoping it was going to disappear from the radar. If what I heard is right, they are also going to be supporting it with a crackdown on cyclists jumping red lights & riding on the pavements.
The thing is, not going to the front if you're filtering can leave you/the bikes behind you stuck between cars as you move away, which is not a good place to be :-?
Bluepete
03-01-08, 10:07 AM
Daimo, I really don't blaim you!
I really worry why operations like that are started.
I can only assume that has been a spate of bikers falling over onto bikes in the green cycle waiting area at major junctions in the London area. It must be a very loicalised problem, it doesn't seem to be a problem in Manchester.
The other viewpoint is probably more realistic; a cop somewhere in London is going for promotion and has to evidence his/her ability to conceive an operation, run it and show results.
Cynica? Me? Nah mate, just doin' me job.
I jsut dont get it?
They pay no tax
They pay no insurance
Never really get hit with fines
Don't get points.
Get their own lanes
But lo and behold, if your a road tax paying, insured, legal, up to date, but stop or even touch the cyclists lanes, you run the risk of points and fines (which could even lead to prison?).
:mad:
I was so calm, new year, new start, but my first day back proves i really need to find a job out of this cr4ppy city. Only 1 year + looking in Kent now for a 1/2 remotley decent job :(
Try going west. Lived in Kent for ten years, Wiltshire and surrounding area heaps better (IMHO!!:D) :smt045
Alpinestarhero
03-01-08, 10:30 AM
Ah crap, i stop ahead of the line all the time to make sure cars know im there, because im in their line of sight
Well, i guess that'll have to stop
Matt
noooo, that sucks! I had heard that this was on the cards, but was hoping it was going to disappear from the radar. If what I heard is right, they are also going to be supporting it with a crackdown on cyclists jumping red lights & riding on the pavements.
The thing is, not going to the front if you're filtering can leave you/the bikes behind you stuck between cars as you move away, which is not a good place to be :-?
No no, that was a previous operation than have been running for about 6 months. I know they've been doing that as i've sat at the lights (in the cycle area too!!!) with coppers standing next to me stopping and pulling any cyclist jumping the lights. Not ONE of them said ANYTHING to me in 6 months!!!!!!
It poises the question as I mention. Now that operation is finished, does that mean they will no longer pull cyclists and concentrate on these ever so dangerous bikers, who are mearly stopping there in safty for themselves?
I guess me stopping next to a car, then a bus sitting 1" off my handlebars is MUCH safer though...
COMMEN SENSE, if you have any at all, it won't get you anywhere :(
Try going west. Lived in Kent for ten years, Wiltshire and surrounding area heaps better (IMHO!!:D) :smt045
Dead true, loads of jobs west/north london.
Bugger all in Kent, but can't move due to family, missis work etc..
Hence considering career change, if its financially viable.
SoulKiss
03-01-08, 10:32 AM
Daimo, I really don't blaim you!
I really worry why operations like that are started.
I can only assume that has been a spate of bikers falling over onto bikes in the green cycle waiting area at major junctions in the London area. It must be a very loicalised problem, it doesn't seem to be a problem in Manchester.
The other viewpoint is probably more realistic; a cop somewhere in London is going for promotion and has to evidence his/her ability to conceive an operation, run it and show results.
Cynica? Me? Nah mate, just doin' me job.
Actually I can see the other side of this.
If they are going to enforce cyclists Crossing the Solid line at the front of the Advance Line, then they really need to stop motorists crossing the solid line further back or else calls of vicimisation etc will come out.
At the moment many cyclist cross the solid line and then any crossing, but dont actually cross the junction - they could try and claim that they were in front of the line, but were not across the junction - oh and look at the cars/motorbikes that are in the "cyclist zone"
You will also note in the diagram above that it is illegal for a cyclist to enter the advance zone from the right side of the road, as only the area adjacent to the Cycle lane doesnt have a solid line.
Personally, motorcycles should be treated as bycicles with regards to where we can legally go ON THE ROAD - so we would still be banned from pavement based Cycle lanes.
As for the Advance Cycle Boxes, a cyclist friend of mine believes them to be a bad idea - well why line the slow moving traffic up in front of the faster traffic.
Exactly.
Its a good idea, let the slowest things sit at the front, because that won't effect the traffic behined at all.
I've said this before, but I read a proposal for bikers to use bus lanes was turned down as they can cause a delay to busses at lights.......
EH??????????? See what i mean, Commen Sense, all gone............
Because a cyclist is MUCH faster off the line than a motorcycle....
How on earth can i fall onto a cyclist. They never stop anyway! What they DO need to do, is to have a word with bus drivers. In the past 2 days i have seen 4 busses jump read lights, almost take out 3 cyclists and 4 cars though just ignorant driving. Generaly bus drivers are ignorant, c***s they really are. Oh look i have a large vehicle, and i dont care! To**ers.
However, overall i think that driving standards in this country are going down the pan. There are far bigger fish to fry on the roads than a motorbike in the cycle box (Which is far to big anyway, like cyclists ever go on the outside of a queue of traffic at the lights)
Then, when the push bikes do get in front, they dont change to a lower gear, sot hat they can then cycle off easy without weaving all over the bloody road and causing a dnager to themselves and slowing the traffic.
Another waste of the already overstretched police service and more paperwork to keep them in the station and not out on the beat.
An MP recently said that he was going to porpose a common sense law. Bring it on and end this stupidity.
Rant over!
Doh, common sense, I have plenty (no brains, but lots of common sense), but I cannot spell it seems :lol:
Dave The Rave
03-01-08, 10:51 AM
Never gone over a white line or seen anyone do it to be honest, is this a London practice?
Most lights around here have red light cameras, if you go over onto the pad, you get caught.
You have not crossed a white line whilst filtering to the front of queue? Ever?:smt102
well thats sorted that for me. will never bring my bike to london. either get a bicycle or take the bus
Alpinestarhero
03-01-08, 11:01 AM
You have not crossed a white line whilst filtering to the front of queue? Ever?:smt102
In london it feels like the right thing to do. I was filtering around brighton yesterday, just as i do in london, stopping after thw white line ahead of teh cars. Felt wrong, really wrong, because it wasnt london
Matt
That's stupid. But I did see a copper lurking at the top of park lane. Makes sense now.
The one thing that has really worried me lately is the amount of people chancing it on amber / red lights. Some people and busses are leaving it really late. Red light cams are actually a good idea I think.
London requires a totally different riding style to anywhere else.
I wouldn't do half the riding i do in london outside london.
But then everywhere else you go, the traffic isn't sat nose to tail, cars hanging in the middle of the road, stupid pedestrian islands that you could fit two tanks on (and the road lanes squeeze to bearly big enough for bus).
You ride in london to aid keep the traffic flowing.
But nope, i'll pull in, cause more traffic, more delays, just becuase I cannot go 1m past that white line to the safe area....
Where can I vent my frustration on this matter where it will be taken note of????????
That's stupid. But I did see a copper lurking at the top of park lane. Makes sense now.
The one thing that has really worried me lately is the amount of people chancing it on amber / red lights. Some people and busses are leaving it really late. Red light cams are actually a good idea I think.
MOST (most, not all) I see actaully decide that red means go, and that its perfectly acceptable to go through a red light so late, that my light is green. Then they argue about it..........
Eh?????????????
I've seen some very very close incounters due to busses jumping red lights. Even saw a women get run over becuase of one bus jumping a light.
But bus drivers are immune from any penalties. But I guess this is england, punish the victim, priase the offender.
I think it's a waste of time. I don't think they should have those cycle boxes there in the first place.
As for bus drivers jumping red lights. Have been a victim of that myself. Quite scary when crossing a junction and realising your are going to impact a big red f******g bus. :sad:
I think it's a waste of time. I don't think they should have those cycle boxes there in the first place.
As for bus drivers jumping red lights. Have been a victim of that myself. Quite scary when crossing a junction and realising your are going to impact a big red f******g bus. :sad:
had you annoyed jo that day :)
Spiderman
03-01-08, 11:41 AM
Hey thanks for the heads up on this Damio....i ALWAYS cross into that box if it exists or over the white line if it dont as i feel far safer in front of traffic than between it when it pulls away.
I'll keep an eye out for the cops but i wont stop doing it.
i dont care if its the law or Govt policy or Highway Code that says i should do it either.
Anyone telling me to do something that i find fundamentaly dangerous and pointless gets ignored, i'm big enough to make my own decisions about my safety thank you very much whoever it was that thought this operation was a good idea.
And anyway as Bluepete pointed out earlier its in the Highway Code which is not a legal documnet but merely a bunch of suggestions on how to use the roads, same as "LEt the bus pull out first is" but most bus drivers think its the LAW that they are allowed out first and hence drive like :toss:
Now this box thing must also covered by some Road Traffic Act bit hence they can enfocre it but i'm gonna try and do some research on that tonight and see what i can find out.
And anyway as Bluepete pointed out earlier its in the Highway Code which is not a legal documnet but merely a bunch of suggestions on how to use the roads, same as "LEt the bus pull out first is" but most bus drivers think its the LAW that they are allowed out first and hence drive like :toss:
np, I think its disgusting. No warnings, just will do you for it. Happy New year and all that...
Interesting, I did not know that. I would have used that line last night otherwise. But good to know none-the-less!! Cheers.
I have heard from a source at TFL that there is no offences of stopping a motor vehicle in that green area. The advance stop line is not the stop line.
I have done a little looking about this morning and cant find anything in law that states either way. I think its another grey law area.
Ch00
Spiderman
03-01-08, 12:16 PM
I have heard from a source at TFL that there is no offences of stopping a motor vehicle in that green area. The advance stop line is not the stop line.
I have done a little looking about this morning and cant find anything in law that states either way. I think its another grey law area.
Ch00
Hmmm interesting. If its a grey area then they cant prosecute can they?
Gotta be some laws relating to the road marking at least to clarify it. Hmmm.
Hmmm interesting. If its a grey area then they cant prosecute can they?
They still can, but what it then takes is for a bike to apeall the ticket and get the matter heard in court which could make result classed as a "stated case" which would then clear the matter up and define the rules.
Ch00
I think it's a waste of time. I don't think they should have those cycle boxes there in the first place.
Agreed. We have these in Shrewsbury too, never seen a cyclist in them. If I was a cyclist, I'm not sure I'd want to be in that area when the lights go green anyway. Can't see the safety benefit. I tend to ignore them too.
I commuted into London for 17 years, so you have my sympathy. It was bad enough when some old duffer on a honda 90 was in front of you at the lights, let alone a cyclist.
I got stopped by a copper once in Hackney. I was stopped slightly over the centre line in a line of stationary traffice. This was due to roadworks on the left of the road. The fact that all the traffic had to shift to the right to avoid the roadworks and cars were also over the centre line completely passed him by. A bike copper too. I produced my documents and never heard anymore, someone had the sense to realise it was a stupid pull.
Having said all that. I'm all in favour of giving the cyclist who ride on the pavement and jump lights a hard time.
John
Unfortunatly, in the 8 years i've been riding into London, its got MUCH much worse.
There was a brief lul in the amount of traffic when the congestion charge initially came out. This did reduce traffic for a little bit. But now its back, with avengence. The amount of extra traffic + peoples stupiditty (anyone come up to Blackwall tunnel and sees everyone trying to squeexe fromt eh last junction into the 3rd lane (which comes back into 2 lanes at the tunnel anyway????)) will understand what I mean.
There was no lul in the traffic when the CC went up to £8.
I hear they are considering charging motorcyclists in the future as well witha CC. In which case, i'll just stop working altogether and become a pimp or drug dealer or something. Its easier it seems, and financially better?
They get less hassle...... The police are too busy pulling bikers who stop at traffic lights 1m too far into the "cycle" stop.....
philbut
03-01-08, 01:14 PM
I always use the advanced cycle box if i'm filtering and there is no room at the front of the que. it's just safer. Having said that, i also use the box on my push bike too. I am always off and to the side of the road before the cars behind, but I know alot of cyclists do hold up the traffic by forgetting to change down a gear. I don't care if there is a motorbike in the cycle box, he'll be long gone by the time I get off the line anyway, and I doubt very much that many biker topple over on to cyclists! I think this is a complete load of toss, and some stupid pr*ck who has never riden either a push bike or motorcycle has come up with this because it makes sense from their desk. Ah well, at least this kind of stuffgives us something to talk about here! ;-)
fizzwheel
03-01-08, 01:29 PM
Having said all that. I'm all in favour of giving the cyclist who ride on the pavement and jump lights a hard time.
I totally agree
I tend to sit in the cycle boxes when I'm on my push bike, purely because it gives me a chance to get away from lights before the cars do, I do tend to shift down into first and then pedal hard to get away, but sometimes car drivers will try and push you into the curb.
In the scenario where a cyclist is going straight across a junction away from lights, it stops or helps to stop car drivers scrabling to get away in front of you and then turning left across your path.
Fizzy Fish
03-01-08, 02:00 PM
Actually I can see the other side of this.
If they are going to enforce cyclists Crossing the Solid line at the front of the Advance Line, then they really need to stop motorists crossing the solid line further back or else calls of vicimisation etc will come out.
Yup, that's exactly why they want to cover both groups at the same time. About a year ago TfL did an enforcement drive which covered cycling on pavements + jumping red lights (esp aimed at cyclists) and also motorists driving in cycle lanes + (I think) using advanced stop lines. It was fairly low key though, and was linked to a comms campaign.
I have heard from a source at TFL that there is no offences of stopping a motor vehicle in that green area. The advance stop line is not the stop line.
I have done a little looking about this morning and cant find anything in law that states either way. I think its another grey law area.
Ch00
I can't quote the law on this, but I'm pretty sure that TfL ran an enforcement drive for this element in the past. This seems to indicate that it is enforceable, and also corresponds to what I've been told by the IAM in the past. Will see what I can trak down at this end anyway.
However if someone can find something that I can quote at a copper to get off if i get caught in the cycle box then that would be really handy!! :thumbsup:
Having moved from 2 to 4 wheels I have to say I've noticed alot more bad driving:smt013 most ppl I talk to say in the last year things have got alot worse
Only at the weekend I had an idiot in a white van try to go past me on the outside line....right line merges into left, I'am in left hes a bit back in the right
Never has a cat hells chance to go clear past me but trys anyway forcing me to brake,and yet I'am in the wrong when I catch up to him:smt013:smt013
But my pet hate at the mo is parents not putting the seat belts on their kids :confused::confused::confused: even when there wearing theirs in the front[-o<
P.s oh and the guy in the 4x4 who could not be arsed to wait in the cue of traffic to turn right at the traffic lights, so goes on the other side of the road forcing on comming traffic to move out of his way...at speed and on a blind bend
fizzwheel
03-01-08, 02:06 PM
However if someone can find something that I can quote at a copper to get off if i get caught in the cycle box then that would be really handy!! :thumbsup:
:D
TBH I dont see what harm motorbikes in the cycle box are doing, seems a bit daft really to exclude them, as others have said you're not really going to hold up a car and a motorbikes more stable than a pushbike so its not like its going to topple over anyway.
Fizzy Fish
03-01-08, 02:08 PM
Oh and it's unlikely that this clampdown will be related to bikes falling over on cyclists (i love that explanation from the copper!!) but it will be more about the wider government aim of attracting people to cycle more (sustainable form of travel, health benefits, etc).
Cyclists in general are in favour of having the advanced stop lines, so it makes sense that if they are there, they are at least enforced.
I don't disagree with this, but I'd just like us to be allowed to use them as well!
Yup, that's exactly why they want to cover both groups at the same time. About a year ago TfL did an enforcement drive which covered cycling on pavements + jumping red lights (esp aimed at cyclists) and also motorists driving in cycle lanes + (I think) using advanced stop lines. It was fairly low key though, and was linked to a comms campaign.
Yeah, mentioned this previously.
What I do find ironic is that in the 6+ months they were pulling cyclists (bearing in mind i've ALWAYS stopped at the front of traffic in the city), is that not ONE copper came over and informed me of this law, yet I saw them every single day, same place, (Bank junction, the big one), they always saw me do it and everyone else, but never said a word...............
Thats is another point i was saying. Does this mean that they will now ignore the cyclists and only concentrate on bikers????
fizzwheel
03-01-08, 02:18 PM
but it will be more about the wider government aim of attracting people to cycle more (sustainable form of travel, health benefits, etc).
I dont see how having a clear cycle box would encourage this much more anyway. What they need to do is go further down the route of cycle to work schemes and also sort out the p*ss poor quality of the tarmac on the cycle paths some of the ones I've ridden on like riding off road and or full of pot holes, or broken glass rubbish etc.
If they want people to cycle give them a decent environment to cycle in, I dont cycle on the cycle paths anymore its to bumpy, and its full of other cyclists who wobble about all over the place due to having no bike control.
Cycling on the road also means I can maintain a constant speed without having to stop start all the time.
wyrdness
03-01-08, 02:20 PM
Most cyclists in London seem to ignore red lights. I rarely see any cyclists in these areas at traffic lights. I usually stop in them, as I'm not causing any obstruction to anyone and I consider it to be a safer place to stop than between cars.
And besides, my road tax says 'bicycle' :D
Spiderman
03-01-08, 02:21 PM
Having moved from 2 to 4 wheels I have to say I've noticed alot more bad driving:smt013 most ppl I talk to say in the last year things have got alot worse
Only at the weekend I had an idiot in a white van try to go past me on the outside line....right line merges into left, I'am in left hes a bit back in the right
Never has a cat hells chance to go clear past me but trys anyway forcing me to brake,and yet I'am in the wrong when I catch up to him:smt013:smt013
But my pet hate at the mo is parents not putting the seat belts on their kids :confused::confused::confused: even when there wearing theirs in the front[-o<
P.s oh and the guy in the 4x4 who could not be arsed to wait in the cue of traffic to turn right at the traffic lights, so goes on the other side of the road forcing on comming traffic to move out of his way...at speed and on a blind bend
Driving standards in general are going downhill in a mojor way. In the last 6 months ive been cut up twice......BY INSTRUCTORS in cars. 1 was driving himself the other the student was driving and even to she went to stop for me at the miniroundabout as it was my right of way her instructor pointed for her to go and when i went in front of them he threw his hands in the air in frustration and shook his head at me!!!
I politely asked him to pull up somehwere safe where i could get his details and report him to his company. The girl driving was really upset by this and while her instructor was busy trying to justify his arrogance (well you could see we were waiting to go, you should have stopped for us he says to me :shock: ) she said "look can we all just get on with this...i'm paying to sit here and listen to you 2!"
The other tw@ just said "so what, who are you to tell me i drove badly" he seemed to miss the fact that he swerved across 3 lanes of dula carriageway without indicating or looking in his mirrors cos he asumed it was clear. **** :roll:
Spider, my GF had this the other day.
Roundabout, shes looking right.....
Way is clear, she pulls out,
looks in front, car tries to pull out on her from next junction (to her left).
Bloke goes mental telling her that she should be looking where she was going...
Yes, becuase I hear the roundabouts are now going anti clockwise and traffic will be coming from the left....... :lol:
People, england, idiots..... Or the "thick population" as I call it.
Spiderman
03-01-08, 02:29 PM
yup happens all the time to me mate.
At the same mini roundabout (yards from 2 schools btw) there is ALWAYS broken glass from headlights/tail lights. And a few weeks ago a copper who was waiting to cross there on foot witnessed it happen to me and when in pulled up and asked him what he was going to do about what he had just seen he simply said "YOU are joking arent you mate? You know hown many collisions we have here daily? We'd have to set up an office to deal with just that to cope with it all. Its just the way they all drive round here. Just be carefull, yeh?" and off he went.
I guess if they could dish out fines via a camera they'd have one there but actulay SPPEAK TO DIVERS AND EXPLAIN TO THEM THEIR ERRORS????? god forbid.
Alpinestarhero
03-01-08, 02:37 PM
yup happens all the time to me mate.
At the same mini roundabout (yards from 2 schools btw) there is ALWAYS broken glass from headlights/tail lights. And a few weeks ago a copper who was waiting to cross there on foot witnessed it happen to me and when in pulled up and asked him what he was going to do about what he had just seen he simply said "YOU are joking arent you mate? You know hown many collisions we have here daily? We'd have to set up an office to deal with just that to cope with it all. Its just the way they all drive round here. Just be carefull, yeh?" and off he went.
I guess if they could dish out fines via a camera they'd have one there but actulay SPPEAK TO DIVERS AND EXPLAIN TO THEM THEIR ERRORS????? god forbid.
Perhaps this is something you should report to both the council (get them to sort out the area, perhaps cross-roads with traffic lights) and also the police complaints commision (not being bothered with the job, basicly)
Matt
Yeah i'd have taken his bloody number and reported him.
Good to see another officer serving the innocent public, protecting them, looking out for their welfare............ Another typicaly example of someone doing a job they have no interest in.
Was there a Costa Coffee and Crispy Creme donut stand nearby?
Spiderman
03-01-08, 02:48 PM
Tho i garee with you both i sadly live in an area where the "community" have more powers than the police or council combined.
An area where when a man was arrested for criminal damage and said to the arresting officer "You people make me sick" he was arrested again but this time for Anti-semetic remarks. In my area saying "you people" makes you anti semitic :roll: and the arrogance of the drivers is only matched by the fear the cops have for them.
My bike instructor once said to me "Hold on do i have to pass thru "Little Israel" to get to you if i come thru X?" and when i said yeh, he said "NO WAY, i'll be with you a little later than planned then cos i ont ride thru that area!
ASM-Forever
03-01-08, 02:49 PM
my road tax says 'bicycle' :D
That is my planned defence. :smt045
Bluepete
03-01-08, 02:49 PM
From what I have managed to figure out, the offence would be failing to stop at an automatic traffic signal at a junction.
The first solid white line is the stop line with he green box in front of that for cyclists. If you cross the first white line in a motor vehicle whilst the ATS shows red, you commit the offence. It is under sec 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. The Highway code ( rule 178 ) uses the word MUST
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
It would therefore be a 3 points and £60 ticket.
:takeabow:
Alpinestarhero
03-01-08, 02:51 PM
From what I have managed to figure out, the offence would be failing to stop at an automatic traffic signal at a junction.
The first solid white line is the stop line with he green box in front of that for cyclists. If you cross the first white line in a motor vehicle whilst the ATS shows red, you commit the offence. It is under sec 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. The Highway code (rule 178) uses the word MUST
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
It would therefore be a 3 points and £60 ticket.
:takeabow:
Carp and Chips
So i better stick behind the lines. Least i got my loud exhaust, people should know i am there
Matt
From what I have managed to figure out, the offence would be failing to stop at an automatic traffic signal at a junction.
The first solid white line is the stop line with he green box in front of that for cyclists. If you cross the first white line in a motor vehicle whilst the ATS shows red, you commit the offence. It is under sec 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. The Highway code ( rule 178 ) uses the word MUST
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
It would therefore be a 3 points and £60 ticket.
:takeabow:
Yup, he tried to scare me with 9 points and the fines as i'd done it through 3 sets of lights. I think my protesting at my innocence, and the fact that I didn't give him attitude was the reason he let me go.
It did wind me up though when asked if I thought I was a good driver (Driver? On a bike?) that I had to say no (My lined up answer was "i don't consider myself a highly skilled rider no, compared to Rossi, but my observational and common sense skills are excellent yes). But that would have only made things worse. Why did he need to say it? To belittle me? To make himself feel better about driving round in a Vectra all day wearing a silly hat? (don't think he was a normal plod, he had a bigger rounder white topped hat, red band around it?).
What he didn't say was bad was going accross the London Bridge at more than the speed limit...?
Coppers, some are great, some really should be in the force...
OH, flip side, a good argument back.
Was travelling up and past first line and lights started to change.
I didn't want to break the law by riding through red lights, so safly stopped in time, but for the 2nd line.
You could get away with it then???
Bluepete
03-01-08, 03:10 PM
OH, flip side, a good argument back.
Was travelling up and past first line and lights started to change.
I didn't want to break the law by riding through red lights, so safly stopped in time, but for the 2nd line.
You could get away with it then???
I interpret the second "Must" in the quote from the Highway Code to cover just such an event.
Spiderman
03-01-08, 03:13 PM
Thanks for that info Pete.
But i cant imagine how it would be possible to be over the first stop line and se the lights chage and stop again in time to be in the box.
A defence but one full of impossibility.
Still as long as i dont see a cop near me i'll ride how i feel its safe to, not according to some nazi pointless and untought out rule.
I interpret the second "Must" in the quote from the Highway Code to cover just such an event.
Yeah, I MUST stop at the 2nd white line.. But I never go over that anyway, just the first line.
But if someone came up to me stating that i had "jumped" a red light because I was in the cycle box, I could come back with the above to cover myself?
AS thats what is written in their law book? Lights changed as I crossed line, stopped for 2nd line as per the law states.....
Spiderman
03-01-08, 03:16 PM
Like i said above Damio...surley thats a physical impossibility tho. The box aint that big.
Fizzy Fish
03-01-08, 03:23 PM
I dont see how having a clear cycle box would encourage this much more anyway. What they need to do is go further down the route of cycle to work schemes and also sort out the p*ss poor quality of the tarmac on the cycle paths some of the ones I've ridden on like riding off road and or full of pot holes, or broken glass rubbish etc.
If they want people to cycle give them a decent environment to cycle in, I dont cycle on the cycle paths anymore its to bumpy, and its full of other cyclists who wobble about all over the place due to having no bike control.
I think it's a case of a lot of little things add up to an improvement overall. Plus cycle lanes, etc send a message out that cyclists are being taken into account, and there are also some more subtle influences in presenting cycling as a more valid form of transport.
But I totally take your point over the road conditions - I've done a bit of cycling recently myself and the cycle lanes just seemed to go in and out of drains/round lamposts the whole time!!
fizzwheel
03-01-08, 03:26 PM
But I totally take your point over the road conditions - I've done a bit of cycling recently myself and the cycle lanes just seemed to go in and out of drains/round lamposts the whole time!!
Yep its because they've been added in as an after thought, rather than being planned into the road infrastructure from the start. I've already had to shell out to have my rear wheel straightened and a new spoke put in. I'm convinced its because of the state of the cycle paths near where I live.
Some people you'll never get out of their cars though no matter what you do.
Like i said above Damio...surley thats a physical impossibility tho. The box aint that big.
Yeah, but if all else fails, what else you got to loose? Your gonna gain 3 lovley points and a nice fine if you agree to it anyway :lol:
Fizzy Fish
03-01-08, 03:28 PM
Still as long as i dont see a cop near me i'll ride how i feel its safe to, not according to some nazi pointless and untought out rule.
yup that sounds like my plan as well!
SoulKiss
03-01-08, 03:28 PM
As I understand it, the offence is to enter the box by crossing the solid line.
But what if I am by the kerb having not crossed the solid line due to the break in the line where the cycle lane enters the box?
I may be wrong, and happy to be corrected - but it isnt actually illegal to be in a bike-lane is it?
Oh and Daimo - Yep if you dont hit 50 at some point over London Bridge then you aint trying :)
Still trying to get the hand of wheelies for when on the middle of the span :)
What times do you cross?
As I understand it, the offence is to enter the box by crossing the solid line.
But what if I am by the kerb having not crossed the solid line due to the break in the line where the cycle lane enters the box?
I may be wrong, and happy to be corrected - but it isnt actually illegal to be in a bike-lane is it?
Oh and Daimo - Yep if you dont hit 50 at some point over London Bridge then you aint trying :)
Still trying to get the hand of wheelies for when on the middle of the span :)
What times do you cross?
Think as its a solid white line its considered its own lane, like bus lanes.....
Bus lanes where up north your allowed in them (read about the M6 or something, Birmingham doing a trial), therefore can be lubed and probed over it.
Yeah, but i try not to do over 60 leptons per hour, (errr that equals errrrrr 30mph to the Police on here :lol: ) as im still letting the bike warm up properly.
Errr, i go over the bridge about 5.10-5.15pm... Come out of Morgate, and its however long the lights want to annoy me for denotes how quickly I can get out the city. :lol: You on an SV? You seen that silver one with twin high renegades that comes from Cannon Street way. Sounds lurrrrrrlvey.
PS, anyone coming from Central London to SE/A2, let me know, i'll tell you some short cuts that keep you out of the traffic as you approach Greenwhich area..
SoulKiss
03-01-08, 03:57 PM
Might see you tonight then - leaving here about 5ish, get to Finsbury Sq for the bike then down to the bridge, then down the A3 till Oval
:)
Ahh i turn left down tooley street at the end of London Bridge..
Funny enough, where they pulled me, is where I got knocked off the SV.
That driver got away with nothing from the police, even though put as him at fault........
So causes an accident, injuries etc etc... But thats ok. But 1m over the line, thats 3 points and £60 please sir.............
Alpinestarhero
03-01-08, 04:09 PM
Ahh i turn left down tooley street at the end of London Bridge..
Funny enough, where they pulled me, is where I got knocked off the SV.
That driver got away with nothing from the police, even though put as him at fault........
So causes an accident, injuries etc etc... But thats ok. But 1m over the line, thats 3 points and £60 please sir.............
Another one for the police complaints commision?
Matt
Not worth it.
He "could" have done me, but didn't.
Didn't get his police officer number.
I use the route every day, im assuming he does on his rounds. Not worth causing myself issues in the future. Partly why I don't want my private plate on my bike.
If a copper pulls me over during a weekend ride though, then i'll argue it tooth and nail, and get these details :lol:
Insurance accident issue is still going through. Only was in Dec 21st 2006 now. Only over a year ago....... :mad:
northwind
03-01-08, 07:34 PM
In 15 years of cycling daily I never once used those advance stop boxes, except right over at the side where a bike would naturally stop. It's just a really bad place for a cyclist to be, directly in front of faster traffic- it provokes the idiot behind you into making the first possible overtake they can, regardless of how small the gap is.
OTOH, in 4 years of biking I've almost never NOT used the boxes, the only time I don't is if the traffic's impassible or if it's full of cyclists- after all, it's their turf. But how often do you see more than one or two cyclists in one? More common right in a city centre but you get them everwhere.
I'm sure there was a department of transport study into this a while back which recommended that motorbikes be allowed to use them, there was talk that it was to become police procedure up here at least, but I don't know what came of it.
only 50 over london bridge!! You really arent trying :)
Anyway, back to the thread :)
-Ralph-
03-01-08, 10:36 PM
Every day that passes something else reminds me why I want to live abroad.
northwind
03-01-08, 10:58 PM
Snowing where you are too? :mrgreen:
metalmonkey
03-01-08, 11:19 PM
I wouldn't worry I do it all time, I have far important things to worry about it, such as no insurance and mobile phones and robbers....I saw something about this a while back mentioned.
It only jumping the light if you go into the green once its turned red and crossed the first white line. On the bike safe day I was talking to bike cops about this yer you would unlucky to get done for it.
F***in cyclist they are a pain in the ass in London, one jumped a red light and nearly crashed into as I was turning right idiot. They didn't even know I was there until I shouted. Yes you can hear me above the roar of my bike and traffic when i shout:D
Ratty46
03-01-08, 11:35 PM
i have seen a thread on this from a guy on LB, he's in the know somehow, but i thought in wasnt going to be 'properly enforced' until 09, seems it has come early, it was also mentioned to me last year buy a copper i know.
in london i would be very carefull, cameras are everywhere and i bet they will be used to enforce it. its a tricky one, watch out for cameras.. and old bill... you might get away with it... you might not, judging by the amount of riders in london that do use them, scoots, big bikes, couriers etc i cant see it being heavily enforced(unless cameras come into play like bus lanes), bit like the crackdown on drivers using mobiles...whatever...yes it would help... but it didnt work!...
Fizzy Fish
04-01-08, 08:34 AM
in london i would be very carefull, cameras are everywhere and i bet they will be used to enforce it. its a tricky one, watch out for cameras..
TfL use CCTV cameras to enforce yellow box junctions/bus lanes/stopping on red routes. However since it's highly unlikley that anyone will be installing CCTV just to cover cycle boxes (funnily enough these are not considered a top priority in terms of keeping the traffic moving!), I suspect that you'll be safe from cameras at junctions where the aforementioned features are not present.
Daimo. Where you work? Out company has just moved into Coleman Street.
Today on the Woolworth road, a police car waiting in the cycle box...kettle, pot, black.
One rule for them,and one for us again it seems.
Daimo. Where you work? Out company has just moved into Coleman Street.
Today on the Woolworth road, a police car waiting in the cycle box...kettle, pot, black.
One rule for them,and one for us again it seems.
Moorgate, in that high tower (citypoint).
I would have actually got the guy to put the window down and asked him why he was breaking the law by jumping a red light. See what he said. I'd note down his f-ing number this time too.
In fact, any dealings with the police for whatever reason in the future, im gonna take down their f-ing number....
Ratty46
04-01-08, 12:50 PM
TfL use CCTV cameras to enforce yellow box junctions/bus lanes/stopping on red routes. However since it's highly unlikley that anyone will be installing CCTV just to cover cycle boxes (funnily enough these are not considered a top priority in terms of keeping the traffic moving!), I suspect that you'll be safe from cameras at junctions where the aforementioned features are not present.
they may use existing cameras? plus they have them smart cars fitted with CCTV on a pole, it can rotate 360 too! i think we just have to wait and see, personaly i cant see it being majorly enforced,you'd think teh police have better things to do, like stopping and searching all teh lilttle hood rats carying weapons...no cant do that its racist...oh we'll just have to go pull over motorcyclists for minor offences....bellends...
ah. I'm always doing this :-s
Ratty46
04-01-08, 01:07 PM
ah. I'm always doing this :-s
be carefull!:)
on another note, have i seen you round angel? i have a blue pointy too!:cheers:
Spiderman
04-01-08, 02:44 PM
Every day that passes something else reminds me why I want to live abroad.
You and me both mate :(
Anyhoo, i stopped in EVERY green box i could this morning on the way into town. Didnt see any coppers about enforcing them either.
Maybe they realised it was an absolutely pointless waste of time and decided to go catch some crook or something.
Oh wait no, thats too much like work. Guess they're in Selfridges at the Crispy Cremes counter :lol:
You and me both mate :(
Anyhoo, i stopped in EVERY green box i could this morning on the way into town. Didnt see any coppers about enforcing them either.
Maybe they realised it was an absolutely pointless waste of time and decided to go catch some crook or something.
Oh wait no, thats too much like work. Guess they're in Selfridges at the Crispy Cremes counter :lol:
+1 +my missis. Anyone else wanna join the list of wannaleaveEnglands :lol:
I stopped in a few still, but always weary of Mr Plod. More-so on the way home when its dark.
With regards to catching crooks :lol: oooookaaaayyyyy.
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