Racist slurs

[yorkie_chris]

There is no room for maneuver.
So basically, call an "oppressed minority" anything and if they're in a bad mood, then you're a filthy racist/sexist/homophobe (delete as appropriate) :rolleyes:



I've never understood malicious name calling, racist or otherwise. It happens to everyone, at all ages and it's not pleasant. So why do people persist in doing it? :-s

Because some people are total c##ts who enjoy making other people feel bad.

[yorkie_chris]

No one cares if it is offensive to you. You are not the person on the receiving end of the remarks.

In fact, say someone called an Indian friend of mine Paki or something, and even if they didnt mind being called Paki, it is still not OK.

I mind.

Thats a complete contradiction there

[missyburd]

Because some people are total c##ts who enjoy making other people feel bad.

:smt011 well :smt097 to 'em all. end of.

....I'm a nice person really 8-[

[yorkie_chris]

It's an elegant solution :D

[philipMac]

So basically, call an "oppressed minority" anything and if they're in a bad mood, then you're a filthy racist/sexist/homophobe (delete as appropriate) :rolleyes:




Because some people are total c##ts who enjoy making other people feel bad.

It is not just about being a c*nt.
It is also about power mongering.
It is about you using some immutable aspect of yourself (ie you are a white English person) as a tool to abuse another person (ie pointing out they are not a white English person) and deriving a feeling of superiority about this.

It is using another person's discomfort to make you feel important.



Thats a complete contradiction there

Wrong.
A contradiction requires two ideas to be opposed.
It is an elaboration.
I am elaborating on why its not OK to call someone a Spic.
It is not ok to call them a spic because it doesn't offend you.
It is still not ok to call them a spic because it doesn't offend them.

[yorkie_chris]

"nobody cares if its not you on the recieving end of a remark"

"if I'm not on the recieving end of a remark, then I care"

So you don't care about what you care about. Seems quite rseways about to me.

That or you're saying that in that case, you'd be offended, but nobody should care, which sounds fair as somebody else's banter offending you is just daft.

[Biker Biggles]

I find the idea that no one can say anything because someone somwhere finds it offensive even if not the person it was directed at to be quite ludicrous.It totally stifles normal human interaction and is a blueprint for authoritarian social control.It also leads to a society where no progress can be made,since no controversy can be tolerated,except that which doesnt upset anybody.One of George Orwells books covered this rather well.
I believe that there is such a thing as oversensitivity to these matters,and what is required to judge the issue is the reintroduction of common sense into the arguement.Perhaps as a starter we should question the concept that offense is deemed to be judged by any individual who claims to be offended.Maybe that issue should be judged by something similar to 12 of ones peers,who might inject some of that common sense?

[yorkie_chris]

Or try to offend everyone equally, that way none of these oppressed minority groups can complain.

[missyburd]

That or you're saying that in that case, you'd be offended, but nobody should care, which sounds fair as somebody else's banter offending you is just daft.

Not strictly correct. I have a gay friend who is also half Malaysian. If someone (s) thought it would be alright to have a go at her about one or both of these facts then I would be very offended on her part regardless of whether or not she is and would more than likely end up having a go at them. Now you may say it would be her problem, let her deal with it and fair enough. It depends on the person involved. Then again, friend or not, abuse of any kind is wrong and they would get a damn good telling off either way.

[yorkie_chris]

Abuse is only abuse when she is offended by it though... if it was just somebody using "racial slurs" in good natured and completely normal pi$$taking then you wouldnt care.

Hence my arguement, if the target of such comments is not offended, then its obviously not abuse, so keep your nose out. Do gooders.

[missyburd]

Abuse is only abuse when she is offended by it though... if it was just somebody using "racial slurs" in good natured and completely normal pi$$taking then you wouldnt care.

Hence my arguement, if the target of such comments is not offended, then its obviously not abuse, so keep your nose out. Do gooders.

Well obviously if the comments are made in joke then I personally wouldn't flare up or anything daft. But those kind of situations are obvious.

[yorkie_chris]

And the person being alright with something is what seperates abuse from banter.

[Biker Biggles]

That is acommon sense view which is so frowned upon by the PC authoritarians.They need total control of what is right and wrong and I for one wont concede that to them.

[yorkie_chris]

:smt011 well :smt097 to 'em all. end of.

That is acommon sense view which is so frowned upon by the PC authoritarians.They need total control of what is right and wrong and I for one wont concede that to them.

F### em is my veiw on it.

I'm not racist, but I don't like the way that minorites get preferential treatment for playing the race card, or the gay card, or the I'm a discriminated against celebrity get me out of here card. Which isn't helped by people getting offended about matters which are n0b all to do with them.

[northwind]

But many times in this context a statement of fact is considered a racist comment.


So that cricketer actually was a monkey? Is that allowed? I suppose it's probably not against the letter of the rules, but it seems a bit against the spirit. "Right spin, Clyde"

[sv-robo]

I'm not racist, but I don't like the way that minorites get preferential treatment for playing the race card, or the gay card, or the I'm a discriminated against celebrity get me out of here card. Which isn't helped by people getting offended about matters which are n0b all to do with them.

my thoughts exactly,this is what i was trying to say on my last post on this thread.obviously to some people this came out wrong or has been totally misinterpretated.As far as this subject goes i have nothing more to say (as i,d only end up being accused of being a racist)......eh lozzo:rolleyes:

[northwind]

I'm not racist, but I don't like the way that minorites get preferential treatment for playing the race card, or the gay card, or the I'm a discriminated against celebrity get me out of here card.

They probably don't like it much when they get a different sort of special treatment. Get rid of one and you can get rid of the other.

[northwind]

Hence my arguement, if the target of such comments is not offended, then its obviously not abuse,

That's obvious nonsense though... I'm having trouble even explaining why, because it's so fundamental. Abuse is what it is, if you say something with the intent of causing harm then whether it hits the mark or not, it's still abuse. It's like saying something wasn't dangerous driving because the other guy got out of the way.

BTW, you have made a tactical error in saying "I'm not a racist", that's only one step away from saying "I've got lots of black friends!" :mrgreen: (this here is one of those friendly abuse things btw, I know fine well you're not)

[Biker Biggles]

Northy is right to say that if you say something that is intended to be abusive then it is abusive however it is taken,but the issue often centres around the interpretation of stuff said inadvertantly or in jest which is not intended to be abusive,but is held to be so by the recipient or someone else who hears it.
As for the old "some of my best friends are -----"cliche,I think there is a real issue here too.Real racists of the BNP KKK nutcase variety will not have black friends abd will hate black people and not mix with them.Commonsense tells us these people are dangerous nutters and need to be dealt with,but we make the mistake of lumping ordinary folk who may not be very PC in with the nutters.At an individual or neighbourhood level most people get on very well with others irrespective of race.The same normally applies at work,but the interferers cant just let us be.They have to keep looking for racism and redefining normal human interaction as such because they are authoritarian zealots.Just like mediaeval witch hunt mentality.

[sinbad]

Arf, racism.
Why should I be allowed to call a white guy a monkey and not a black guy? Why is it okay to be called a *******, but add black to the mix and suddenly it's racism. What about white b***ard?

It's a total double standard, but then it's not really "racism" it's active protection of previously downtrodden minority groups for as long as possible............. anyway, aren't we the human race?

[Sean_C]

Arf, racism.
Why should I be allowed to call a white guy a monkey and not a black guy? Why is it okay to be called a *******, but add black to the mix and suddenly it's racism. What about white b***ard?

It's a total double standard, but then it's not really "racism" it's active protection of previously downtrodden minority groups for as long as possible............. anyway, aren't we the human race?


Its not ok.. If someone called me a white monkey they'd get a piece of my mind. It doesn't matter what direction its going in, its wrong.

[sinbad]

Its not ok.. If someone called me a white monkey they'd get a piece of my mind. It doesn't matter what direction its going in, its wrong.

Good luck with the lawsuit on that one. Anyone got any documented evidence of a successful prosecution in that "direction" in this country?

[Sean_C]

Probably not, but that doesn't mean that its fine to call someone that? Its equally as racism in the other direction.
People don't hear about it as much etc, but that doesn't mean its acceptable.

[philipMac]

I tell you what guys.
All you people who like to put darkies etc in their place, you just carry on doing that.

Keep those side splitting jokes coming!

I am sure it will all work out for you in the end.
George Orwell would be proud.

PS, I just found this really AWESOME site, these people really know what side their bread is buttered on!!!111

www.stormfront.org (http://www.stormfront.org)

How about you concentrate your efforts more on joining in their fascinating discussions?

[-Ralph-]

I tell you what guys.
All you people who like to put darkies etc in their place, you just carry on doing that.

Keep those side splitting jokes coming!

I am sure it will all work out for you in the end.
George Orwell would be proud.

PS, I just found this really AWESOME site, these people really know what side their bread is buttered on!!!111

www.stormfront.org (http://www.stormfront.org)

How about you concentrate your efforts more on joining in their fascinating discussions?

Nice to see a constructive post on the thread. :thumright:
All that sarcasm was starting to get me down :D

[Biker Biggles]

Shame really.The thread started with a slightly provocative post taken more seriously than intended by some,but explored generally politely and constructively by many others.We had a bit of banter and humour among some of us who Im sure enjoy that sort of thing,and we had some serious and interesting debate about a tricky suject where there are widely differing views.And then this outburst by someone who just cant tolerate anything other than his own absolutist views on the matter.Well done.Your link on that post should be quite enough to achieve exactly what you wanted,and get the thread shut down and all debate around the issue silenced.
I find YOUR behaviour offensive.but I guess that doesnt count eh?

[21QUEST]

Interesting debate by most.

Personally, I can't see any reason for thread to be locked. It'll be quite ironic I'd say ;)

Shame hehe, my typing foo ain't so great now, as it's an interesting one. Virtualluy all post I've read have something , I could pick out which could be classed as racist....not counting the ones from the brain dead morons mind.

Of course , it's not my call but be a sad one if the thread is locked. I'm one for things like this talked about in open9even if I'm not saying much lol).

Fizzyfish, I think mentioned 'common sense'. One of the best things said. Now, the beauty of that is that, it applies to errr both sides of the coin.....the sensitive and the insensitive ;) .

Does living in a society where litigation is the thing to do, perhaps make people, just that little bit more sensitive? :confused:

Okay guys, no handbags, keep it clean and defo keep dummys in :mrgreen:



Ben

[21QUEST]

oh just remembered this. Apparently , if you were to refer to an Aborigine as 'black'...not sure if that includes 'brown' hehe, you'd be likely to get a good pasting.
Note, the word is being used in the context of pointingout/picking out, to someone.....same as you may point me out to someone in a room full of, not too many black.

I'll be grateful if any of our residentAussies(that offensive?) on the board can confirm that.



Ben

[Pedrosa]

I do not see colour,I see a fellow human being.

[laMon]

I do not see colour,I see a fellow human being.

me too;)

and you lot are all bl00dy missing links in the Darwin theory:smt077. err (includes me)
did I offend everyone? :tongue:

[BILLY]

I do not see colour,I see a fellow human being.
And me!!!

[philipMac]

ha ha.
Pretty funny emmm comebacks I suppose.
Maybe I am absolutist.
I absolutely dont like weak minded racist people.

Good call.


I still think its very simple.
Every person has a name.
You can address people by this name, or in a large number of other ways.

However, within this large set of other ways, you have to use some intelligence (bear with me), and you should to try not to be excessively obnoxious.

If you do not understand or know where that line is, and that line definitely exists, well... basically I suppose unfortunately you start to fall into the definition of a sociopath.


Is that simple enough?
You treat people in a civilised, neutral or non obnoxious slightly considerate fashion and feel embarrassed about social errors you have made, or... you don't care.

And if you dont care, if you fundamentally cannot view the world through another person's eyes, you might have a problem.

[yorkie_chris]

That's obvious nonsense though... I'm having trouble even explaining why, because it's so fundamental. Abuse is what it is, if you say something with the intent of causing harm then whether it hits the mark or not, it's still abuse. It's like saying something wasn't dangerous driving because the other guy got out of the way.

"With the intent of causing harm" being the important bit.

Picture this, at the bar, Ians round, someone says "get your wallet unchained, it's your round."

That's an obviously stereotypical racial slur, Ian being of Jewish descent, why's this so fundamentally wrong?

[philipMac]

"With the intent of causing harm" being the important bit.

Picture this, at the bar, Ians round, someone says "get your wallet unchained, it's your round."

That's an obviously stereotypical racial slur, Ian being of Jewish descent, why's this so fundamentally wrong?

??
Chris man... are you taking the p!ss here? How is that is obviously a racial slur?

Get your wallet unchained you stingey kike is a stereotypical racial slur.

Get your wallet unchained, it's your round means... exactly what it says on the tin.

[yorkie_chris]

Ok I make the point badly...
But I stand by the point, if you say something without intent to cause harm, then where's the problem? If there is one, then it's certainly not your's to complain about.

The way I've come to see this, is if you need to resort to race to offend somebody then you must be a little dense, think of something else... And what one person may see as racism is someone else's banter, but if it's not aimed at them then it's nowt to do with them.

[Tiger 55]

So that cricketer actually was a monkey?
The word might have been 'mangey' apparently, Hindi for bed. Singh was suggesting that Symonds might enjoy going to bed with his own mother (in a very non U rated way). Definitely not cricket but not racist either.

Symonds has since been reported as saying he doesn't mind racist insults as long as they're from friends, so pick the bones out of that!

[Viney]

Ok, i only read the 1st page of this, but this was discussed on The Wright Show. On thie phone in, it seemed that a majority of the black callers, wouldnt have taken the term 'Monkey' as a racial slur, yet the white callers did. Go figure?

Things can be said in so many ways, and 99% of this time its how these things are interpreted in life by that person at that time. Lifes to short to worry about who said what and whats meant by it.

[Ceri JC]

Ok, i only read the 1st page of this, but this was discussed on The Wright Show. On thie phone in, it seemed that a majority of the black callers, wouldnt have taken the term 'Monkey' as a racial slur, yet the white callers did. Go figure?

Things can be said in so many ways, and 99% of this time its how these things are interpreted in life by that person at that time. Lifes to short to worry about who said what and whats meant by it.

Reminds me of the time a mate went to a fancy press party as the character Papa Lazarou from The League of Gentlemen. For those who are unfamiliar with the character, he is a 'black minstral' circus ring master that is very sinister, part of this sinister quality comes from the feeling that the black minstrals were 'a bit wrong'. If anything, the character pokes fun at how backwards and out of date racism is. It certainly doesn't condone it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/images/2005/06/01/vasey_05_400x267.jpg

A black girl at the party thought it was great fancy dress costume and recognised that it was mocking racists. In spite of her vocalising these feelings, her (white) friend flew off the handle, to the point that she felt she was justified in physically assaulting my friend and screaming at him. No doubt she went home with a clear conscience, believeing herself to be "fighting the good fight" and having "stuck one to the racists" rather than realising that she is a thoroughly unpleasent (and none too bright) young woman.

[keithd]

Ok, i only read the 1st page of this, but this was discussed on The Wright Show.

i was at a wedding with matthew wright last year.

true story.

ps when i say "with", i mean he was at the same wedding i was.

true story.

and there were no monkeys there, nor were there any invited.

is it george best?

[Pedrosa]

Oh how the launcher of this thread must be sitting back and holding his tum as he chuckles away at the responses and how so many have got on a mission here.

If you only knew who and what was behind it!:p

[Viney]

If you only knew who and what was behind it!:p

I Quote the Great Keith D here whan i say...

Is it George Best?

[timwilky]

Actually, he privately told me how upset he was that his innocent wit had been taken out of context and used to beat him up.

Can I please ask that we draw a line under this and allow this thread to die.

[Kate Moss]

i think your posting name is very offensive to the asian community.;)

see, now i feel bad for laughing at this!!!

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Does living in a society where litigation is the thing to do, perhaps make people, just that little bit more sensitive? :confused:

No, to be sensitive would be to avoid saying things that offend other people because it's unpleasant. Not saying it because you're afraid of being throw in prison doesn't really hold quite the same moral cache.

I'm still yet to read anything from the PC contingent that explains why attacking someone is worse when it has a racial motivation.

[plowsie]

I'm not racist, but I don't like the way that minorites get preferential treatment for playing the race card, or the gay card, or the I'm a discriminated against celebrity get me out of here card.
I like this, it is the way i feel.

*Cat amongst pigeon moment*
What you gonna say about this guy if you saw him out and about, you'd prob point and look at him >>>>>>>>> :brilsmurf: cos he's got Blue skin, is he different, well yeah he has blue skin, but should he be TREATED differently, no he is a human being. Now as quoted when the race card gets played its different it ****es me off. I have lots of coloured friends and to me they are exactly the same as non coloured mates.

A friend of mine once took me into a club that was apparently for black people only, it is amazing how differently you get treated from the jibber jabba you get told, people had told me that it was a bad place and the wrong place for a white guy to go, my friend Renaldo(Ron) took me there and I said I dont wanna go in, he said dont get all racial on me(as a joke), i got in there and i tell you what had the best night in a long time i had had out. Yes there was only me and maybe 2 others that were white. No problems, decent people and a laugh at some points. I then met the manager of the place, he came over to Ron and was talking, we then sat down and chatted, he questioned me as to why not so many if any white people came in, and once told he was upset and somewhat hurt in the manner his club had been named so to say. Whether it be down to racist comments about the club or put off sorta comments such as I had heard he couldnt believe it, he went about and the next weekend I went in with 5 or 6 other mates aswell as Ron, he was chuffed to bits.

In my eyes racism can be a very tricky/argumentative subject to talk about with just white people, but once coloured people get involved it turns into a discussion providing that all people are sensible about the way views are put across.

Can i just clarify that my terminology on coloured people I find very difficult to demine when in a discussion, i do not want others to take it as I am saying that white people and coloured(there it is again) are seperate people. As one time a while ago Lissa bought a subject up and i felt i could not put my point across properly without possibly offending others, I'm sorry if I have done that here I do not mean to.





The end, its a mini adventure :smt114

[Tiger 55]

What you gonna say about this guy if you saw him out and about, you'd prob point and look at him >>>>>>>>> :brilsmurf: cos he's got Blue skin, is he different, well yeah he has blue skin, but should he be TREATED differently, no he is a human being.
I'm sorry Plowsie but you are way off the mark here, just totally wrong.

He's a Smurf.

Smurfs live in the woods in houses shaped like mushrooms and don't mix with human beings. They may also be French.

[plowsie]

....I meant if you saw a blue man walking about, sorry, must make it clear!

[Tiger 55]

must make it clear!
Quite. See how an innocent remark can be taken out of context? ;)

Anyway, it may depend on whether they are only pretending to be blue...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r161/tigerboz55/220px-Blue_Man_Group.jpg

...or really are blue, like this (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1297781,00.html) poor fella!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r161/tigerboz55/reallyblueman.jpg

[northwind]

You mean the Blue Man Group aren't really blue? That's another dream dashed :(

BTW, Plowsie :salut:

[Kate Moss]

I personally have enjoyed this thread. I find it fascinating to read other peoples' opinions. Seems a simple thread has turned into a debate, but i must say - what better place to have a debate than in idle banter with people from all walks of life.

[missyburd]

I personally have enjoyed this thread. I find it fascinating to read other peoples' opinions. Seems a simple thread has turned into a debate, but i must say - what better place to have a debate than in idle banter with people from all walks of life.

hear hear

[Biker Biggles]

I normally charge for entertaining people,but in your case I waive all fees.
Glad to be of service.:takeabow::takeabow::takeabow::takeabow:

[northwind]

what better place to have a debate than in idle banter with people from all walks of life.

I used to be on a mailing list where people would debate politics etc, and essentially everyone agreed with everyone else. That was rivetting...