just seen a Home Information Pack

[tigersaw]

I have been sent property details, along with a copy of the HIP. It consists of a copy of the usual searches, a few Q+A's and a hilariously worthless 'energy performance certificate'.
I.e. reccomendations - fit low energy lighbulbs (no Sh*t Sherlock), fit a condensing boiler (no Sh*t Sherlock #2), fit photo votaic solar panels on roof (WTF?? who in their right minds does that).

However, the worrying bit is the owners personal information being freely available. I know their full names, their address, who their mortgage is with, how long they have lived there...

I know this info has always been discoverable, but not without reason and traceability - now its just being thrown into the public domain.

Surely a good starter for 10 for ID theft?

[Spiderman]

yeh biggest waste of money, paper and ink you can imagine and one of the main reasons why after 15yrs i left the property industry. That and the money laundering regulations nonsense.

[northwind]

It's such a good idea. And done so terribly.

[embee]

Yes, and as far as I'm aware they still haven't thought about the question of who actually owns the HIP, so if you want to transfer to another agent they don't necessarily give you the HIP that you've paid several hundred squids for (compulsorily!).

The other major issue as I see it is that the body who prepares the HIP can simply deny any liability for the accuracy. There was a case reported recently of a blatant error in one which would make the property less desirable to prospective buyers, and the aggrieved owner was unable to get it changed. He was told they would have to prepare a new one, but that the details of the old one would still be on record, so the property was still blighted by the incompetence of the agent who prepared it.

[yorkie_chris]

Paying £100's of ££ for a f###ing lemon to tell you that low energy light bulbs use less energy.

The joys of this society.

[$tevo]

Another government tax, another layer of beaurocracy and another layer of people who depend upon this govt for a job (who depend upon these people for their votes). Grrrr:smt013

[Jools'SV Now]

Soon to be available at every roadside along the whole length of every road in Britain.

The new: 'CTRG' , Crossing the road guide

A handy guide, costing only ?150, it takes you through crossing the road, literally step by step.
Among it's handy tips are; don't cross with your eyes closed, and wait until the 40 ton lorry has passed by before crossing.

Proceeds go to the public spending black hole created by all the paperwork required for political correctness in a nanny state.:smt092

[yorkie_chris]

Soon to be available at every roadside along the whole length of every road in Britain.

The new: 'CTRG' , Crossing the road guide

A handy guide, costing only ?150, it takes you through crossing the road, literally step by step.*
Among it's handy tips are; don't cross with your eyes closed, and wait until the 40 ton lorry has passed by before crossing.

Proceeds go to the public spending black hole created by all the paperwork required for political correctness in a nanny state.:smt092**

*By the way, it's mandatory
**Please try not to offend any minorites when you get to the other side of the road

[embee]

......black hole ......

Sorry, that's a no-no :smt018

[northwind]

But seriously, does anyone not think there's basically a good idea in there... If it was as reliable as a proper survey (which it isn't) and actually did the job (which it doesn't) then it would help to get around the ridiculous situation currently where 10 potential buyers all end up doing their own surveys, which I think in the real world wastes more money. And you might say it's unfair on the seller but since most sellers are also buyers that's not really an issue, it's like only having a toll going one way on a bridge- might seem unfair but very few people don't go over the same bridge coming back.

So, the problem is with the laughable execution. The concept to me seems to be pure common sense, but obviously as Sun Tzu said "no common sense survives contact with the beurocrats". Or something like that.

[yorkie_chris]

So whats the point of it? Why not just have the seller get a survey done by a registered estate agent, any potential buyer just contacts estate agent and gets a copy of results for ?20 or something like.
Having the council involved in business is enough of a disaster.

While I'm about it, stamp duty? What the hels the point of that?

[Viney]

One of my mates prepares these reports, they're a joke!What? your mates are jokes. Thats not very nice now is it ;)

[Gazza77]

But seriously, does anyone not think there's basically a good idea in there... If it was as reliable as a proper survey (which it isn't) and actually did the job (which it doesn't) then it would help to get around the ridiculous situation currently where 10 potential buyers all end up doing their own surveys, which I think in the real world wastes more money. And you might say it's unfair on the seller but since most sellers are also buyers that's not really an issue, it's like only having a toll going one way on a bridge- might seem unfair but very few people don't go over the same bridge coming back.

So, the problem is with the laughable execution. The concept to me seems to be pure common sense, but obviously as Sun Tzu said "no common sense survives contact with the beurocrats". Or something like that.

It is a great idea in theory. A proper survey, all the searches done, and any other relevent documentation would mean that no nasty surprises should occur. The problem is, that it is half-hearted, badly implemented and as such an unecessary expense.

I'm just putting my house on the market. I had quotes of between £300 & £500 for the HIP. Why the difference - surely as a legal requirement they should have a uniform price. Also shows how they can be manipulated; I've just come off the phone to the EPC suvery people who wanted to know when my double glazing was fitted. I told them I wasn't sure, so they told me they would put it in the "post 2002" category as that gets a higher rating. How useful can the report be when based on guesswork?!

PS Anyone want to buy a house? ;-)

[tigersaw]

PS Anyone want to buy a house? ;-)

And how do you feel about the fact that I, or any other stranger, can read that report - I'll know when you moved in, how much you paid, who your mortgage is with, your full name and address. Thats enough to begin ID theft.

[Gazza77]

And how do you feel about the fact that I, or any other stranger, can read that report - I'll know when you moved in, how much you paid, who your mortgage is with, your full name and address. Thats enough to begin ID theft.

Fair point, but until I see the report I don't actually know what it contains! Having said that, the information you quote is already available in the public domain, just check the land registry and electoral roll.

[tigersaw]

Fair point, but until I see the report I don't actually know what it contains! Having said that, the information you quote is already available in the public domain, just check the land registry and electoral roll.

The electoral roll is not available for inspection - unless you forgot to tick the secret box.

[Spiderman]

But seriously, does anyone not think there's basically a good idea in there... If it was as reliable as a proper survey (which it isn't) and actually did the job (which it doesn't) then it would help to get around the ridiculous situation currently where 10 potential buyers all end up doing their own surveys, which I think in the real world wastes more money. And you might say it's unfair on the seller but since most sellers are also buyers that's not really an issue, it's like only having a toll going one way on a bridge- might seem unfair but very few people don't go over the same bridge coming back.

So, the problem is with the laughable execution. The concept to me seems to be pure common sense, but obviously as Sun Tzu said "no common sense survives contact with the beurocrats". Or something like that.

Even the agents and Agencies that backed it initially and were running the ball for the Govt have now stepped back and are keeping very quiet about it.

So whats the point of it? Why not just have the seller get a survey done by a registered estate agent, any potential buyer just contacts estate agent and gets a copy of results for ?20 or something like.
Having the council involved in business is enough of a disaster.

While I'm about it, stamp duty? What the hels the point of that?

Agents cant do surveys. Some agencies have an office surveyor who is RICS qualified but even still ts a bit dodgy as they have a vested interest when they make the report. After all they dont want a property on thier books that wont sell cos the survey puts buyers off, right? So is it a totaly impartial survey?

It is a great idea in theory.

Yeh as theories go, sadly it had Govt getting their hands on it and thats when it stopped being a good idea.

Many moons ago the Law Society discussed the feasability of doing all conveyancing by computer, E-convayancing if you will. They spent time and money looking into it and at one point were ready to roll it out.....until some smarty pants reaslised they would not be able to charge anymore for the work and if peeps could see most of the info online maybe they wouldn't even pay a solicitor to do the trnasaction so they shelved that idea.

And cue this farce. :roll:

Even in the trials they ran in Bristol with the full HIP showed it did nothing for buyer confidence or speed of transcation so seemed utterly pointless. But i guess the pint of a trial run is to ignore the conclusions it comes up with and push ahead with a taxable polcy instead.

[Jools'SV Now]

Sorry, that's a no-no :smt018

sorry, hole of undetermined race, colour, religion, sexuality, immigration status.

This post can be read in 18 different languages by following this Link.

cos I'm pretty sure that if I was in Kurdistan, all their government paperwork would be in fekkin English:smt108

[Spiderman]

sorry, hole of undetermined race, colour, religion, sexuality, immigration status.

This post can be read in 18 different languages by following this Link.

cos I'm pretty sure that if I was in Kurdistan, all their government paperwork would be in fekkin English:smt108

Hahahaha, good work. I tried clicking the link

:laughat: me for being such a spanner.

[embee]

... so they told me they would put it in the "post 2002" category as that gets a higher rating. ......
Just be a little careful there, 'cos if it was installed post April 2002 (?) it must have a certificate to meet Building Control requirements, which if you haven't got one might cost you. The buyer could probably insist on you providing a cert.

Example
Replacement Windows and Doors

As from 1 April 2002, Building Regulations request that building owners installing replacement windows or doors must obtain Building Regulations consent and have the installation inspected to ensure compliance with relevant regulations. The relevant regulations are:

L1 Conservation of fuel and power
N1 Glazing protection against impact

[Gazza77]

Just be a little careful there, 'cos if it was installed post April 2002 (?) it must have a certificate to meet Building Control requirements, which if you haven't got one might cost you. The buyer could probably insist on you providing a cert.

Example
Replacement Windows and Doors

As from 1 April 2002, Building Regulations request that building owners installing replacement windows or doors must obtain Building Regulations consent and have the installation inspected to ensure compliance with relevant regulations. The relevant regulations are:

L1 Conservation of fuel and power
N1 Glazing protection against impact

Good point. I only bought the house in 2004 though, so my solicitor at the time must have seen valid paperwork at the time of purchase. If not, their backside will get kicked for not doing their job properly!

[Ceri JC]

Another government tax, another layer of beaurocracy and another layer of people who depend upon this govt for a job (who depend upon these people for their votes). Grrrr:smt013

Exactly my POV. Working in this line of work is inherently unethical to my mind.

[yorkie_chris]

Exactly my POV. Working in this line of work is inherently unethical to my mind.

+1

[Ed]

Thought I'd drag up this old thread - cos I have now done just over 100 HIPs since they were introduced. Not bad for such a small firm in a small town, but I get work from beyond Shrewsbury.

Let's see what changes they have brought. Bizarrely, they haven't really helped consumers at all. But they have helped lawyers, and I've found that I can compete very well with estate agent providers, and in most cases I can beat them on cost and timescales. Also the Government gets VAT - there wasn't any before - so speculate on the hidden reason for them.

1. I don't do them myself, I sub-contract them to a HIP company. They can do the work cheaper than I can, so I can make a profit. I never used to make anything on doing searches before. Great, more money for Ed:D

2. I've been able to maintain my fees on sales and to jack up my fees on purchases. Bizarre, cos having the HIP makes the deal less work. Great, more money for Ed:D, although not much on a per case basis.

3. At the same time as ordering the HIP, I always ask people if they'd like me to do their conveyancing. Everyone says 'yes'. I don't charge a withdrawal fee, I think that's unethical, so I send all the forms and get them to complete it all and send it back. There's lots of form filling and most clients complain but that's not my fault, so many forms in fact that clients don't want to do them again, so I know that they won't walk. So much for introducing choice, it simply gives a way of getting people to sign up:D. As a result, I have a huge amount of prospective work in progress. If all of them sold at once, I'd need 3 more people. But they're not selling:(

3. They sit on my PC and nobody ever asks to look at them. Not one seller client has asked me to look at their HIP. If I paid ?350 for something, I'd want to see it. If clients want a deferred payment HIP, it's even more - ?399. One agent routinely asks me to email the HIP to them so that they have it on their file in case someone asks to look at it, but nobody has asked them. And even if they did, I wonder how they'd understand it.

4. Tescos do HIPs. It didn't surprise me to see that I am cheaper, both on HIPs and on conveyancing fees:cool:

5. Having a HIP definitely does speed up the process. But usually other things slow it down - now, it's delays in mortgage offers, or people getting cold feet and backing out. So overall it's not really any faster.

6. Generally, I think that they are a good thing. But only because I can make a profit on them, they haven't really addressed the fundamental problems.

7. Roll on June, when the transitional rules cease and everyone selling a property will need them:cheers:

[MiniMatt]

+1 to Northwind & +1 to Ed for the insider's scoop :D

There was always something fundamentally bonkers about a house being surveyed multiple times by multiple potential buyers. Unfortunately obviously at the moment HIPs don't cover that, the original idea got watered down so much they became something of a joke, especially the whole "fit low energy lightbulbs" nonsense. Sure, it'd be nice to know if something moderately expensive like cavity wall insulation was done (not sure, do HIPs actually reliably indicate that?) but ?3 light bulbs, please.

[tigersaw]

My parents just had a house hipped as a probate sale. Two girls turned up, didn't ask any questions, didn't look in loft. You guessed it - low energy light bulbs and solar heating reccomended.

[$tevo]

Do you think there's room on the B Ark for HIPers? :)

[timwilky]

We are in the process of selling my brother in laws house.

The HIP cost more than the estate agents fee, and was only £50 cheaper than the solicitor's fees

[yorkie_chris]

stuff

So basically, it's all b0llocks, as suspected.

[Ed]

So basically, it's all b0llocks, as suspected.

Yes oh king. There is nothing in it for consumers.