Valve Clearances

[DanAbnormal]

Just phoned Chiswick Honda to book in my Hornet to get these checked.

They want 4 hours labour plus vat, well over ?200!!

This seems steep, anyone else have had these checked on their bike and if so what was the cost?

[philbut]

Doesn't sound too bad. It's a pretty involved job, and would take me more than 4 hours (but then I don't do it every day). 200 squid may be a bit steep but it is a Honda garage. Could try a little independant place maybe. i don't think you'll ge a main dealer to do it for much less.

[Dave The Rave]

I just had my checked. 16k servise. 4 hours of labour plus bits. They did not need adjusting (they rarely do be TBH). They may just balance the carbs whilst there are in there. I think that's a fair price mate.

[DanAbnormal]

It just seems weird as Reading Honda are quoting two hours labour plus parts. Chiswick would be much easier but not at that price. Ah well, I guess it's Reading then.

Cheers guys.

EDIT: No, Honda dealers are taking the p*ss. Spoke to 3 independat dealers and they charge 1 hours labour plus the shims if they need new one's (although I'm sure they just move them around). £85. That's 168 quid cheaper than a Honda dealer. What a rip off, I shall be having words with Honda dealers.

EDIT:2

AMS have quoted £190 for full service including valve clearances. They also collect the bike and will deliver back on a Sunday. Legendary!

[Dave The Rave]

It just seems weird as Reading Honda are quoting two hours labour plus parts. Chiswick would be much easier but not at that price. Ah well, I guess it's Reading then.

Cheers guys.

EDIT: No, Honda dealers are taking the p*ss. Spoke to 3 independat dealers and they charge 1 hours labour plus the shims if they need new one's (although I'm sure they just move them around). £85. That's 168 quid cheaper than a Honda dealer. What a rip off, I shall be having words with Honda dealers.

EDIT:2

AMS have quoted £190 for full service including valve clearances. They also collect the bike and will deliver back on a Sunday. Legendary!

2 hrs yes. But only for taking the tank and bits off and measuring the clearences. You may as well get all the engine work done at the same time. Unless you do it yourself in which case why don't you do the clearences too?

[rob13]

I was going to take the bike to my local bike place to get the clearances and the valve synch done, however I might actually test the clearances myself. If theyre out then ill take it in, if not then I might just buy a kit to do the valve synch myself and then just get it dyno'd to see if its putting out full power.

[StreetHawk]

It just seems weird as Reading Honda are quoting two hours labour plus parts. Chiswick would be much easier but not at that price. Ah well, I guess it's Reading then.

Cheers guys.

EDIT: No, Honda dealers are taking the p*ss. Spoke to 3 independat dealers and they charge 1 hours labour plus the shims if they need new one's (although I'm sure they just move them around). £85. That's 168 quid cheaper than a Honda dealer. What a rip off, I shall be having words with Honda dealers.

EDIT:2

AMS have quoted £190 for full service including valve clearances. They also collect the bike and will deliver back on a Sunday. Legendary!

Dan, I just got mine back from AMS, ?190 for full service inc valve clearances. Simon seems a nice guy, picked up and delivered when he said he would. All mine were fine and didn't need any shims but the engine sounds quieter and seems smoother than before , they gave it a quick clean too :)

[StreetHawk]

It just seems weird as Reading Honda are quoting two hours labour plus parts. Chiswick would be much easier but not at that price. Ah well, I guess it's Reading then.

Cheers guys.

EDIT: No, Honda dealers are taking the p*ss. Spoke to 3 independat dealers and they charge 1 hours labour plus the shims if they need new one's (although I'm sure they just move them around). £85. That's 168 quid cheaper than a Honda dealer. What a rip off, I shall be having words with Honda dealers.

EDIT:2

AMS have quoted £190 for full service including valve clearances. They also collect the bike and will deliver back on a Sunday. Legendary!

Dan , I just had mine back from AMS , Simon seems a nice guy and picked up and delivered when he said he would. It didn't need any shims as all was good but it seems quieter and smoother than before. They gave it a quick clean too :-)

[Daimo]

Just said about this on the bandit forum.

Many people seem to think its a cam cover off job.

But its mearly a case of plugging a machine to the carbs (via vacum pipe) and letting it work it out. We also done my carb balancing while i was there.

Otherwise, they will try to charge silly labour hours on it. Its acutally a 10-20 min job.

[DanAbnormal]

Umm, I'm talking about Valve Clearances not balancing the carbs. I takes 5 mins to remove tank, 5 mins to remove rocker cover tand then 30mins to check shims. I would do it myself but I don't have a micrometer.

Nick, cheers for recommending them, they seem awesome.

[Daimo]

Yes, the valve clearence can be checked using the same machine. I know the difference between carb balancing and valve checks :lol:

[Viney]

You need a set of feeler guages to check the shims.

[yorkie_chris]

But its mearly a case of plugging a machine to the carbs (via vacum pipe) and letting it work it out. We also done my carb balancing while i was there.


That's either a really advanced vacuum gauge, or you're thinking of something else.

What did the machine look like?

[yorkie_chris]

I would do it myself but I don't have a micrometer.

You only need a micrometer to change them, you can check them using just feeler gauges, which are like £5 or less.

[DanAbnormal]

Yes, the valve clearence can be checked using the same machine. I know the difference between carb balancing and valve checks :lol:

You sure! ;)

[yorkie_chris]

It's possible that it could work, but you'd be measuring any back flow on compression stroke through a valve held open.

Since there's a pressure wave bounces back up the intake a little before that anyway then the accuracy of the measurements would be mental, especially compared to the overall random "noise" of gas flow.

I don't think it's likely to have been attempted.

[mary]

Dave at Wimbledon Motorcycles is v. reasonable and comes recommended by loads of honda owners. I used to take my cbr there over chiswick honda.
mary

[DanAbnormal]

It's possible that it could work, but you'd be measuring any back flow on compression stroke through a valve held open.

Since there's a pressure wave bounces back up the intake a little before that anyway then the accuracy of the measurements would be mental, especially compared to the overall random "noise" of gas flow.

I don't think it's likely to have been attempted.

Er, yeah. I was thinking the same thing. :-dd:p

[yorkie_chris]

Hehe, care to enlighten us daimo?

[Daimo]

That's either a really advanced vacuum gauge, or you're thinking of something else.

What did the machine look like?


Slighty smaller than a shoebox. Think its measured by testing the pressures somehow. Its a £1500 bit of kit, I got a graph measurement on the unit showing me each cyclinder and valve clearence. Then went into a different menu on the unit to run the carb checks which showed a different graph again for each carb.

When I first spoke to my old man about valve checks, he immediatly informed me about it isnt a cam cover off job and don't go to the dealers who would shaft me on labour.

Seeing has he's been riding since he was 16, plenty of years road racing inc a national license, used to strip the race bike down in the living room in the winter, has rebuilt more bikes than i've had hot dinners, and now works on Benellis, Ducatis, and MV Augustas just for fun at RedDogs while he's still recovering, no offence guys, but i'll trust him over whats written here. I very much doubt with his experience he would lie to his son about something like this, and he could strip a bike with his eyes closed, so i'll trust his judgement over a few internet comments ;) .

[DanAbnormal]

stuff

Sounds like a special kind machine to me. I'm sure you can do it this way but I'd prefer the ?5 feeler guage! ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Yes when I said it was unlikely that a machine exists to estimate valve clearances from pressure readings, I should have said it's not cheap!

Could you get me some details of this here "box" as I'm interested as to how it works.

[Daimo]

I will ask him next time i speak to him. But im assuming most bike places have one.

It also had more tricks up its sleave, but don't know what they are.

[DanAbnormal]

I will ask him next time i speak to him. But im assuming most bike places have one.

It also had more tricks up its sleave, but don't know what they are.

Cor, it could make the tea as well! Looks like the wife could be out on her ear! ;)

The place I get my MOT done has a huge diagnostic doodad machine as well. But they reckon it costs about 4grand.

[jambo]

Done my valve clearances with feeler gauges quite a few times, this is the first I've heard of a box that can tell what they're like without the cam cover off. Would be very intrested to know how it worked on that. "Massively off" on the inlet side you could probably measure, but "slightly out" and exhaust side I've no idea...

Jambo

[yorkie_chris]

Done my valve clearances with feeler gauges quite a few times, this is the first I've heard of a box that can tell what they're like without the cam cover off. Would be very intrested to know how it worked on that. "Massively off" on the inlet side you could probably measure, but "slightly out" and exhaust side I've no idea...

Jambo

+1, what about a too large clearance? This wouldn't show up at all.

[I'm_a_Newbie]

I would not trust anything but a feeler gauge. If the clearance is to small the valve will overheat and eventually fail and cause hundreds of pounds worth of damage. For the sake of £5 and an hour or so of home labour I know what I would do.

The inlet valve gets cooled by each new air intake, the exhaust valve does not, it only gets cooled by the contact between the valve and it's seat. If the valve is not closed for a minimum amount of time then the overheating starts. As more wear sets in the clearance gets less and the overheating gets worse until there in no contact between the valve and it's seat. Your then getting to the point where either the valve starts to melt and/or the valve seat starts to melt and/or the valve head breaks off the stem.

Tim

[DavieSV]

I will ask him next time i speak to him. But im assuming most bike places have one.

It also had more tricks up its sleave, but don't know what they are.

Does it also tell you when your power band needs replacing?
I think mine has snapped

[Daimo]

I take it sarcasm isn't one of your life skills :rolleyes:

As I say, i'll trust my old mans experience over a few internet people. I've seen what he knows, and if he says its fine, its fine.

[DanAbnormal]

what are internet people and where can I buy them?

:D

[jambo]

I take it sarcasm isn't one of your life skills :rolleyes:

As I say, i'll trust my old mans experience over a few internet people. I've seen what he knows, and if he says its fine, its fine.

There are several people on the Internet who I trust wholeheartedly, but if someone's telling me something that doesn't line up with what I already think to be the case I will query it. My mind has never been good with "because I say it does" whether it came from a teacher, parent, or other person of standing.

No one is saying this box doesn't exist, it's simply that I would like to know how it works, from my understanding it's not possible to accurately measure all tolerances without having physical sight of them (meaning the cam cover off). I'm very happy to be proved wrong, however, for the moment I'll trust the highly experienced people I know over "Some Internet guy's dad". See where I'm going with this?

There's a £2,000 vacuum gauge I've used in a bike garage before and it was rather clever (it worked out rpm, and diagnosis of major issues from the vacuum readings on the carbs) but we still opened up the bike and checked the valve clearances manually. This was in a bike workshop for a main dealer in London (granted it was about 3 years back), so it's certainly not a box all dealers use for 5 minutes and then charge you for 4 hours labour...

Please let me know if you can find out more about it, I really would like to know how it works. Gizmos are great.

Jambo

[yorkie_chris]

(it worked out rpm, and diagnosis of major issues from the vacuum readings on the carbs)

You can set the idle mixture by vacuum readings, the theory being a cylinder getting an optimum charge will draw harder, which is cool (if my front mix screw would move grr)
A machine to sense this and figure out whats out by how much by this theory would be a pretty good toy to have... However at the moment I think I'll stick to the £50 carbtunes!