Horizons tonight - is alcohol worse than ecstasy?

[Fizzy Fish]

Should be an interesting one! This is the blurb about the show:

Tuesday 5th February 2008, 9pm, BBC Two

Recent research has analysed the link between the harmful effects of drugs relative to their current classification by law with some startling conclusions. Perhaps most startling of all is that alcohol, solvents and tobacco (all unclassified drugs) are rated more dangerous than ecstasy, 4-MTA and LSD (all class A drugs). If the current ABC system is retained, alcohol would be rated a class A drug and tobacco class B.

The scientists involved, including members of the government's top advisory committee on drug classification, have produced a rigorous assessment of the social and individual harm caused by 20 of the UK's most dangerous drugs and believe this should form the basis of future ranking. They think the current ABC system is arbitrary and not based on any scientific evidence.

The drug policies have remained unchanged over the last 40 years so should they be reformed in the light of new research?

[Daimo]

May watch this. Some real facts about drugs that isn't hyped over by newpaper media, or government "findings".....

[leemole]

drugs are sooo rife and easy to get hold of the ABC system makes no diffence in people's decision to take them

[Fizzy Fish]

drugs are sooo rife and easy to get hold of the ABC system makes no diffence in people's decision to take them

True. But why should some people be demonised/prosecuted for taking certain drugs, when other things which are more harmful are considered acceptable?

[leemole]

i agree after a few E's i dont wanna get into fights, be sick everywhere and be a Kn*bhead yet im the criminal lol !!:)

[MeridiaNx]

Probably have too much of the former than I should (not binging, just regular consumption) and have never tried the latter. So I can't comment entirely from personal experience.

From what I have read however, I think they probably have a very valid point. My gut instinct would therefore be to say yes it is. Will watch tonight to find out more though.

[gettin2dizzy]

I wonder how politically slanted it will be. I think I'll know within the first 2 minutes whether it's worth watching; there's nothing like people being ignorant about drugs gaining all their knowledge from hearsay and movies.

[leemole]

ne of u seen hollyoaks ?? the young lad who started on weed a few months ago now has a bag of heroin n he is thinkin of tryin it !! yeah right cos thats really what happens. :)

[Stu]

Mistresses on the other side - will need to tape one! :)

[The Laughing Assassin]

Well i worked as a "Point of Entry Public Relations Officer" (Bouncer) :smt064for several years... in places where lots of alcohol :smt030 was consumed there were lots of fights,:smt071 and i got hit alot....
on dance/trance :rave: nights (where lots of E's were consumed) there was Very rarely any trouble and i got lots of hugs.:smt055

I stopped this job when i was told i could no longer consume lots of alchohol or E's while on duty...:smt042

[neio79]

well i always found E a lot cheaper and lasted a lot longer, after a few pills a good night was had by all!!

[The Basket]

Kinda.

But it is about binge drinking and the culture of binge drinking.

But if alcohol was invented tomorrow then for the damage it causes then yeah ban it.

[Biker Biggles]

LSD is also far better value for money than most other drugs.
Or it was a few years ago:cool:Wouldnt dream of doing that sort of thing now Im a respectable pillar of society :rolleyes:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Does anyone have any idea if the link between mental health problems and weed is due to the week its self, or from something dodgy in it?

[Spiderman]

Does anyone have any idea if the link between mental health problems and weed is due to the week its self, or from something dodgy in it?

Errrmmmm. have you ever smoked weed mate? You cant add something dodgy to weed since its a plant.
I assume you mean hash/resins?

But no, drug induced psychosis can be brough on by plain old weed or skunk. Its all about your own individual chemical makeup.

In very much the same way that your average person of Asian descent cant drink much red wine before getting drunk...yet can drink far more units of alcohol in Sake form and still be failry ok. The reverse is also true about westerners drinking Sake / red wine.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I assume you mean hash/resins?

I guess. I don't know the lingo of the street, as it were ;)

[Spiderman]

I guess. I don't know the lingo of the street, as it were ;)

weed is the dried plant and thats it. Complete with twigs leaves etc
Hash or resins are usualy tainted with something or other tho.

This programme tonight might be good, its about time someone acknowledged the massive costs of alcohol to the nation versus the far lower cost of most other drugs and stopped this madness of "all drugs are bad and all drug takers are criminals"

[Biker Biggles]

I thought it was the strong grass and skunk that was being blamed for the psycho boom?Im not convinced,and I find it all a bit too convenient as a scapegoat for other problems.

[Spiderman]

I thought it was the strong grass and skunk that was being blamed for the psycho boom?Im not convinced,and I find it all a bit too convenient as a scapegoat for other problems.

An ex-grilfriend of mine spent time in a psychiatric unit simply cos she smoked too much weed. There was a history of mental instability in her family (guess i should have seen that if she wanted to be with me, lol) but it was just the weed. Horrible thing to see someone have a full nervous breakdown over the space of a day or 2 but i still smoke and that seems to me its all about the individual and not the drug in most cases.

Sadly govt scaremongering wants us all to believe that all drugs will kill us or get us addicted on just one hit.

oh except for the Govt sanctioned drugs of tobacco and alcohol of course :roll:

[wtdafk]

I think the psyco boom is down to problems with society more than anything, i have smoked for nearly 10 years and the weed/skunk has always been pretty much the same not the super strength crazy maker that the media make it out as. You can tell the people that shouldent smoke the stuff because they have underlying problems in the first place, just like you can tell when some one shouldent drink becasue they get violent/stupid.

[timwilky]

I know skunk does your head in. I have witnessed aggression, paranoia in a number of users. I have also seen problems with long term weed users.

These days I simply think all drugs are bad, alcohol is no better./worse. However, like many drugs most users are problem free. Or so they think until the long term damage is measured

[Fizzy Fish]

Interesting show - it's good to see some people from the scientific community stand up and contest the somewhat irrational current means of classifying drugs.

IMO it's important to get a true picture across to people.

Having a correct measure of where the problems lie would both help with addressing drugs related problems, and also mean that people have a clear understanding of what they should stay away from and why. If you tell kids that all Class As are terrible and then they find Es are actually fine, what's to stop them then trying coke/crack/heroin cos the govt makes out that they're the same level of 'badness'?

And why, for example, should I be afraid to tell my parents that i've tried things like E (I think was no. 14 in the rankings) and yet I share a few drinks of alcohol (no. 5 in the rankings) with them?! madness...

That said, I'm getting old and TBH generally share tim wilky's view that it's best to try and stay away from them, and certainly in excess...

[gettin2dizzy]

I thought it was a reasonably well put together program, although it was evident a few of the ?experts? were looking preconceived ideas their research. Reading the credits at the end, the list of highly reputable agencies, universities and publications only brought credit to it, however I still think it?s very easy to associate the mental issues that people who are vulnerable to ?hard? drugs tend to suffer from with so called side effects.

Weed can make people slightly paranoid yes, but only in a tiny amount of people. Strapping somebody to a machine, wiring their brain in to it, injecting THC intravenously and then asking ?do you think we?re conspiring against you? is hardly a neutral approach!

I think the most clear statement the program made was :


Our current methods of ?protecting? the public isn?t working
The laws are very outdated, mainly made as a knee-jerk reactions
Research needs to be made to justify these laws
They are a valuable tool in the medical world
It?s up to the user how dangerous they make it
Alcohol is particularly damaging to society. I don?t think there was one on that list I wouldn?t have a go with

[gettin2dizzy]

This is an interesting thread (http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=4224&edition=1&ttl=20080206161434).
Some people feel particularly strongly about it 'death penalty for dealers'... :lol:

[Biker Biggles]

Just loved the bit where they tried out LSD on a platoon of squaddies and sent them out on a mission.Funniest thing on TV for ages.:D

[gettin2dizzy]

Just loved the bit where they tried out LSD on a platoon of squaddies and sent them out on a mission.Funniest thing on TV for ages.:D
search google video; there's a longer version on there along with 'the beyond within', an excellent documentary about its origins.

[gettin2dizzy]

oh, and have a few tinnies before watching it too ;)

'with one man broken down in laughter, and another climbing a tree to feed to birds...'

[phil24_7]

Missed this, when's the repeat?

[gettin2dizzy]

check the iplayer

[phil24_7]

iplayer??

[Fizzy Fish]

'with one man broken down in laughter, and another climbing a tree to feed to birds...'

that bit was absolute class!! :lol:

[Caddy2000]

ne of u seen hollyoaks ?? the young lad who started on weed a few months ago now has a bag of heroin n he is thinkin of tryin it !! yeah right cos thats really what happens. :)

You're quite right - my mate went from weed to crack, and now I don't hang around with him as he's become an antisocial w@nker

[Daimo]

Thats down to the person, not down to the drug. Your "ex" mate cleary had other issues to need to move onto harder things.