Going to work on the bike

[pmapp]

Howdy all, just after some folks thoughs on this if thats OK.........


I currently have a company car, which I use for private use etc.
Work are having a re-jig at the mo' and have put the following offet to me....

Use my bike for work - giving them the car back.
They up my salary between ?1000 and ?1200 + the ?660 I currently pay for benefit in kind ??? (Tax ain't my strong point) :confused:
They pay me 35p per mile for business use.


Just wondering what yer thoughts are?
I can do my job on the bike, not really a problem (visit sites - IT support).

Anyone know a rough figure for how much my insurance would go up to include business use?



Bit of a garbled post, only just got a mail from 'em and wanting info to ponder on.
Thanks in advance,
Phil

[george650]

around ?125 - Get them to pay that too though

[Lozzo]

1000 - 1200 a year?

Tell them to stuff it, you'd lose that in depreciation on a bike in 6 months when you start racking the miles up. I'd be looking at enough to buy me a new SV every year if it was being used almost exclusively for them.

[Wideboy]

you'd have to change you insurance to say business use or get you company to sign something to say if you ever have the misfortune of having a prang up they will pay up

[Stu]

35ppm is good for a bike
but you couldn't get a car for $1000-$1200 that's what you should be thinking of - what a similar car would cost you.
Don't be fooled by the $600 tax saving. You will have to pay tax on the additional salary.
The Govt. 'value' you co. car at $2600 based on $600 tax. So start with that :D

[Stu]

you'd have to change you insurance to say business use or get you company to sign something to say if you ever have the misfortune of having a prang up they will pay up
I think you will definetely go to prison for a very long time if you have not got proper insurance, only a nod & a wink that someone will pay if it goes wrong ;)

[pmapp]

35ppm is good for a bike
but you couldn't get a car for $1000-$1200 that's what you should be thinking of - what a similar car would cost you.
Don't be fooled by the $600 tax saving. You will have to pay tax on the additional salary.
The Govt. 'value' you co. car at $2600 based on $600 tax. So start with that :D


Sorry, should have said the car I have atm is classed as a commercial vehicle, worth about 28,000 - that's where the ?660 comes from.



Hmmmmm, a little food for thought then. Thanks peeps. :D

[Pedrosa]

I remember the good old days when we were all encouraged to go to work on an egg! Much more economical!:p

[metalmonkey]

My Class one Business didn't cost me anything extra:p which is good......on all my vehicles, though I would ask them enough to cover the cost of your bike, or why can't you have a company bike? Its worth asking!

[Stu]

Sorry, should have said the car I have atm is classed as a commercial vehicle, worth about 28,000 - that's where the ?660 comes from.



Hmmmmm, a little food for thought then. Thanks peeps. :D
I meant annual benefit rather than actual worth. but commercial vehicles were taxed really cheaply, so not much of a saving.

Commuting on a bike is great (& I don't think the additional insurance is anything at all - it's just the resultant additional mileage) also my 2 speeding tickets the copper put down SDP without asking me (I was commuting at the time)

But riding in work time is a different matter- all the time saving benefits are not yours but your employer. Do you reaaly want to ride a bike in the middle of winter for someone else's benefit? ( & ins. covering working at different locations I would have thought would be more - is that what you mean 'Thunder?)

[Lozzo]

Sorry, should have said the car I have atm is classed as a commercial vehicle, worth about 28,000 - that's where the ?660 comes from.



Hmmmmm, a little food for thought then. Thanks peeps. :D

So they save 28K on the purchase of a vehicle and offer you a paltry 1200 in return for making your own bike worthless...that's bloody generous of them, not.

Tell them to stick it

[scooby2102]

pmapp, like lozzo, stu etc, tell them to either get real or stick the offer, they are takin the ****ss mate

do you get private fuel currently ?

if so then that alone is worth a few quid

in my present job, I get both car and fuel for company and private use and they reckon its worth about 8 k per year, the downside of that is less of a basic salary (if I were doing the same job outwith the motor trade then I could be getting 8k more wages but would probably have to buy my own car and fuel)

I was negotiating (much the same as you) 5 years ago but point blank refused less than 5k (was holding out for 6ish)

got taken over by present company so in the end was not an issue but as I say above, no chance was I accepting less than 5000

[Dave The Rave]

I don't do personal tax so I am a bit rusty on the topic. But you can calculate your benefit in kind tax yourself. linky link http://cccfcalculator.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/CCF0.aspx

£660 doesn't mean a thing if we don't know the milleage.

However
35p/mile is very generous indeed (for a bike).

Sit down and calculate it. Or what about asking your accountant at work?

[GastonJ]

Also note that if they pay you 35p per mile you'll pay tax on it. The current IR rate for motorbike use is 24p per mile, I think. Check on the IRS website, anything over 24p will be taxable.

I have a company car and wish I could get rid, but it's part of my contract. Days I take the bike they refuse to pay me for, and it's a 220 mile round trip...

[-Ralph-]

It's not necessarily all doom and gloom. The vital bit of the equation we are missing is what will your business mileage be?

Are they taking away your vehicle in exchange for paying you a paltry fee for the odd trip. In which case it's a crap deal, now you have a van (newish and reliable I assume) to use whenever you want. To buy an run a wee car to replace it you should budget 3 grand a year. 1800 quid increase in salary aint gonna cover it, especially after tax.

I lease new Mondeo for £250 a month and reckon I spend about another 60 quid a month on all running costs (except fuel which I claim through expenses at cost), so total 3750 a year. My car allowance is £450 a month paid through payroll and taxed, so after tax I only really break even.

If your doing 10K business miles a year at 35p, with fuel costing you 10p per mile at 45-50mpg, thats 2500 a year left over to buy, run and maintain, a bike or a car.

You could find a 3-4 year old GS500F for 1500 quid with decent tyres, chain and sprockets, and a recent service. Run it for a year with a £1000 budget (a couple of services and a couple of sets of tyres). Go trade it in a year later, if even if you only get 500 quid for it that money is cash in your pocket. Use the GS500 as a working hack and have another nice bike as a toy, your paying for that now anyway.

The more miles you do the more attractive it gets.

[-Ralph-]

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't read it properly. Ignore this post.

[-Ralph-]

Days I take the bike they refuse to pay me for

Mine would probably do the same, but I don't tell them, I just claim the mileage at the same rate as if I had taken the car.

I keep a canvas sports bag folded up in my tank bag along with my laptop and my shoes. Take the textiles and boots off in the street and lock my lid to the bike. Then walk into the customers reception in trousers, shirt, tie and shoes, carrying a sports bag. Sure they wonder what's in the bag, but most non bikers are none the wiser until they pluck up the courage to ask about the bag, and those who are bikers cotton on, but don't care and just end up chatting about bikes.

[pmapp]

Hmmmm, thanks all for the replies.

Gonna have a ponder on it today at work, do a few sums and see if I can possibly get a bit more out of 'em.

It's only been put forward as a preliminary suggestion at the moment. So I'll see what I can negotiate.

Thanks again,
Phil

[blueto]

ask them to buy you a bike? Then rack up as much as you like. They outlay 4k to begin with but within 2 years would have saved on all the other expense

[skint]

Doesn't sound a good deal to me. Depends what your Co car is to some extent and what it includes I suppose.

Lease cost vary of course but typically a Ford Focus/Audi A3 etc size car would be around the £3500 - £4000 a year which includes all your maintenance, mech breakdowns etc - that can be a significant benefit ( and no worries!) which of course you will be taxed on but not as heavily as on the 'cash' (As far as I know I haven't checked in detail because I like the convenience of the Co. car and 'happily' pay for the privaledge).

Depending on the car which is the most economical to run? I can get 50+mpg from the car but only 35+ from the bike. The tyres on the car last 20k miles (covered by lease anyway) whereas the bike its only 3.5k if I'm lucky and at £120+ a time - I do about 20k a year just commuting that's nearly £1k a year in tyres (one front to two rears) :smt102.

I can take a cash alternative of £3500 but I couldn't run the same car privately or a 'nice' bike for that even taking the tax into account.

I wouldn't want to do without a car and rely just on the bike - but that's just a personal thing.

i know in my office there is a 50/50 split between buying own car and getting allowances and having a Co. car though recently two have switched to Co car having had mech probs with their own.

good luck with it, it would certainly be more fun in the summer ;)

[timwilky]

My employers will pay £4,500 for you to take cash in lieu of a car. They then expect you to claim business mileage at the same rate as they would pay for co car use £0.10/mile.


So 40% of the 4500 goes to the tax man leaving me with. £2,700 a year to play with. remove
£700 for insurance
£900 for maintenance
£150 for tax

means I then get about £950 /year to purchase a car.

then I can claim back from the tax man the difference between their rates and the companies.

So assume I do 12000 co miles
10000*(0.4-0.1) = £3000
2000*(.25-.1) = £300


So in total it would be £4250 I would have per year to own and run a car.
Factor in depreciation and I still think I am better off as I have not included £500 for a set of tyres each year. The fact it is going to need at least 1/2 major jobs. May be, if I already owned a car it might break out in my favor.


Doing the sums on a bike the biggest issue is the miserable £0.25p you can claim from the tax man. So if they are paying you £0.35/mile then you will be paying tax on that. Depreciation on the bike will put it through the floor with the extra mileage. and my biggest issue would be that I use a bike as stress relief/relaxation. They would take that element from you. What about those days it it lashing down, snowing/freezing. have fun getting in/out of waterproofs, soggy all day, carrying laptops/notes etc. Sod it use a car for work. (Yup I know I am a fair weather type)

So I think your employers are taking the P with their offer

[Ceri JC]

1000 - 1200 a year?

Tell them to stuff it, you'd lose that in depreciation on a bike in 6 months when you start racking the miles up. I'd be looking at enough to buy me a new SV every year if it was being used almost exclusively for them.

What he said. I get £3700 a year for mine, along with 24p a mile. Sounds a lot, but it's still a huge saving for them over providing me with a company car.

[rob13]

I would keep the Co car, in the grip of Winter, the risks you are taking (and being worse off by the sounds of it) without a car increase massively. If you had an off and found yourself off of work, do you get full pay?

[pmapp]

Okie dokes.

Thanks all for the info yet again. I've told 'em this morning I'll be sticking with the company car.

Last night when it was put to me it sounded like a decent thing, but tax/money etc ain't one of my strongest points :-) So all the comments on here have made sense and swayed my decision.

I know I'm on a good thing with the car (Nissan Navara + all toys), as it's commercial it only costs me £660 a year tax + 10p per provate mile. Trying to get a van out of 'em at the mo' for use with the bikes for trackdays etc. :-D

Thankyou to the all knowing org :-D

[Stu]

£700 for insuranceYou old fart it can't be that much :lol: ;)
£900 for maintenance
£150 for tax

means I then get about £950 /year to purchase a car.

then I can claim back from the tax man the difference between their rates and the companies.

So assume I do 12000 co miles
10000*(0.4-0.1) = £3000*40% tax = £1200 (you can claim the tax, taxman doesn't actually pay you mileage! :D)
2000*(.25-.1) = £300*40% tax = £120


So in total it would be £4250, No £2,270 I would have per year to own and run a car.
Factor in depreciation and I still think I am better off as I have not included £500 for a set of tyres each year. The fact it is going to need at least 1/2 major jobs. May be, if I already owned a car it might break out in my favor.


Doing the sums on a bike the biggest issue is the miserable £0.25p you can claim from the tax man. So if they are paying you £0.35/mile then you will be paying tax on that. Depreciation on the bike will put it through the floor with the extra mileage. and my biggest issue would be that I use a bike as stress relief/relaxation. They would take that element from you. What about those days it it lashing down, snowing/freezing. have fun getting in/out of waterproofs, soggy all day, carrying laptops/notes etc. Sod it use a car for work. (Yup I know I am a fair weather type)

So I think your employers are taking the P with their offer

[Stig]

I've just been looking at a new job with the offer of a car or allowance instead. I'd use either of the bikes so would opt for the allowance. This is worth £6.5k a year so your offer sounds more like a kick in the teeth.

[timwilky]

You old fart it can't be that much :lol: ;)


What, I would have to start a business class insurance policy as I would have zero no claims.

I never realised that I would only get the inland revenue rates as a taxable allowance. That is terrible. and makes the economics of running a car/claiming a taxable allowance uneconomic at the now lousy rate my co gives.

[454697819]

my car allowance goes though PAYE, and my mileage is submitted monthly under expenses,

They do not care if I have a car or a bike providing i get here in one peice looking reasonable,

Days i have important meeting i use the car.

I did buy an expensive car and it didnt work out.. I was getting £270 car alowance after tax and i was spending £600 a month on the running and fueling the car..

I have now aquired a cheap diesel escort that is smart enuff to pass and ive bought the tuono too.

Now iv managed it that the car allowance pays for the insurance on the car.. and the bike in its entirety.

Comapany cars are nice, but i like the charm of the old motors too... lols oh yeah and i got a new bike out of it... :cool: