View Full Version : Removing Exhaust a Stud
I've had a look about the forum and there was a number of discussions about studs and using copper bolts but nothing about removing a stud.
In this case I managed to get one removed but the other bolt just chewed up and I couldn't thread another bolt on to it as all the thread on the stud had rotted away. So I had to cut it to get the pipe off, this left about a 1/1.5 cm of stud sticking out from the engine block.
So anyone know any good tricks for removing it, other then a helli coil after lots of drilling time.
I could get it to a mate about 20 miles away who will mig something to it to leaver it out, but I need to arrange transport. As it can't be rode as it has no MOT, so I would like to see if there is a way I can get it out myself.
Grinch,
in my car once i had something similar to this. However, i had a bluepoint stud extractor set from when i was an apprentice, and used this. Superb bit of kit. Although an inital bit of prep work is required for getting the stud ready its excelent once u get it going. The stud flew out! I might still have this knocking about and seeing u are in pomepy weekends if i find it your more than welcome to borrow it!
That would be great... I'm working at home next week so I'll be in Pompy all week...
Don't you just love this place... :-)
i think i do. ive been here all me life. well 28 years of it anyway! ill PM you my number
Just for info I found this article on the web, save people looking about -
http://www.frost.co.uk/how_do_i_explained.asp?hdID=12
Spanner Man
15-02-08, 02:18 PM
Afternoon all.
I have found that the best thing for removing broken studs is to slip a nut that has a bigger thread than the stud had over it & weld it on. Noit only does the heat really help to loosen it, you then have something to turn with a socket.
Spray it with penetrating oil as it's cooling as it's cooling down, & work it gently back & forth, rather than trying to undo it straight away.
Cheers.
yorkie_chris
16-02-08, 02:52 AM
Spray it with penetrating oil as it's cooling as it's cooling down,
"loctite freeze and release"
used that on dizzyblondes bike, seemed to give it the shock needed to break the corrosion, after that when getting the socket style stud extractor on it they wound out easy as pie.
BanannaMan
16-02-08, 03:23 AM
The best solution is to have someone MIG weld (aka wire weld) a nut to the broked stud. Then remove it via the nut.
Even it's recessed it will work as the weld will not stick to the aluminum block.
I do this all the time... and in fact did so today at work to remove a broken bolt from an alternator.
The flash (splatter) from the MIG welder is minimal and won't damage surrounding paint, etc.
I'm sure you can find a local welding shop or car repair shop that will do this for less than you'd spend on taps, extractors, helicoils, drill bits and the like....all that... even at their best...damage the engine block to some extent and could potentially RUIN it.
From a repair shop owner with over 25 years experiance...
Do it right the first time. ;)
EDIT: OK I'm slow...What spannerman said.:rolleyes:
jamesobrady
16-02-08, 03:53 AM
Only a question ....
Would it do any damage to install the header pipe/exhaust with the remaining good bolt and ride it the 20miles to your mate?
My feeling says no...... ?
EDIT: just saw the no MOT bit...... meh, chance it anyway?
northwind
16-02-08, 10:02 AM
With that much stump, I reckon a stud extractor might well work, it'll leave you no worse off... My set cost me about a tenner from Machine Mart, they're very rarely useful but when they are, they're very handy.
The MIG welded on bolt was going to be my orginal plan of action, but I was hoping to maybe find a solution that would not need me to get the bike somewhere. So hopefull the stud remover should work a treat... I'll let you know how it gets on. I'll also have to give blueto a text and see if he found his, else I to will be going to Machine Mart or something to get one.
tactcom7
18-02-08, 11:48 AM
Whatever you do don't buy the set from halfords, me and my dad snapped the first 3, it would appear they are made out of silver toffee.
yorkie_chris
18-02-08, 12:02 PM
So I had to cut it to get the pipe off, this left about a 1/1.5 cm of stud sticking out from the engine block.
Next time grind half the nut off, then tap the rest of the knackered nut off it with a punch. As soon as you've broken the side of the nut, stop so you don't weaken the stud more than necessary.
Or use a nut splitter if you can get one in there?
Yep, appears that I did remove the nut all wrong, something to remember I think. But aleast I know for next time, splitting the nut would have made things much easier, though thats a lesson learn't for me.
yorkie_chris
18-02-08, 12:34 PM
I'd definately be mig welding it now.
The "easy out" type things are absolutely horrible, they;re very easy to snap. And also very hard to drill out.
Could you remove the head and take it to your mate to avoid riding it without MOT?
err... not ever taken a head off myself, that could just lead to a whole world of complication.
I'm_a_Newbie
18-02-08, 10:40 PM
Hi.
I had my own nightmare with this last summer. Broken bolt in head for front pipe. Steps were as follows:
Drill through broken bolt using 4mm drill.
Use easy out.
Easy out broke.
Order Cobalt drills of various sizes.
Drill through broken Easy out
Use another easy out, heat and WD40
Easy out broke.
Drill through Easy out and snap Cobalt drill in there.
Remove head and take to engineering firm in Horndean
Firm drilled 1mm hole, partly in head and partly in remnants of old bolt.
Firm centre drilled waste to about 5mm so not to damage thread.
Firm then peeled out waste of bolt.
This drilling technique will require you to level off the broken bolt with the head so you can drill the 1mm hole.
p.s. The engineering firm charged me £30.
Best of luck.
Tim.
Sid Squid
18-02-08, 11:38 PM
Never cut the stud, always cut the nut off of it.
Had a similar problem of my own recently when I undertook an engine swap with my pater, about same sort of stud length left sticking out too.
Plenty of loosening fluid required, and we used a pair of mole grips to hold the stud. I was fortunate with how easy it came out to be honest, but the method used was spray with penetrating oil, leave to soak, spray some more then have a go at getting out, keeping constantly spraying with oil as it is extracted so it's well lubed up ;)
Mole grips are pretty useful as you can get plenty of squeeze on the stud, and if this fails you can try other methods. Up to thee though.
This is the said stud -
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/P180208_13.jpg
I'm hoping I'll get it out with the stud remover.
petevtwin650
23-02-08, 10:42 PM
One of these?
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/petevtwin650/org%20tech/studextractorrs2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i184/petevtwin650/org%20tech/studextractorrs1.jpg
BanannaMan
24-02-08, 04:13 AM
well now that we've seen the pic.....
With that much stud remaining ...
I'd try the spray and a good (or new) pair of molegrips.
With a little patience you stand a good chance of removing it this way.
Remove other nut and flange.
Rock the stud back and forth being careful NOT to break it.
If this does not work MIG weld a nut on to it.
Provided you don't break the stud again....you nothing to loose by trying.
I'm sure you (or at least someone you know) has a pair of molegrips and a can your favorite brand of bolt loosening solution.
grinch,
How did u get on removing this stud? Is it done yet?
Let us know.
I've got the stud remover (as seen above), and I've been spraying it with some plug gas every day. Though I'm going to have to drop the exhaust off to get to it, else there will be no room to grip and turn the stud.
would u like this frost freeze spray?
Oh yes please, how much do I owe you for it?
nothing mate.? Im sure one day u might be able to help me out when my sv goes wrong!
Well let me know when you want me to pick it up.
another trick I've used in the past is to get hold of a loose drill chuck, or remove one from a drill that you have. Tighten the chuck onto the stud and unwind by hand.
As its the front cylinder you may even get away with just leaving the chuck on a drill.
Red Herring
24-02-08, 08:10 PM
Why is it always the front left stud, the one that is hardest to get to, that sheers? We tried everything on mine, eventually I had to take the head off and drill/helicoil it, which was actually a pretty straightforward job in the end. Just make sure you don't drill to deep and hit the water jacket!
Hmm a job I think I may need to tackle soon . Out of interest, does anyone know the thread size of the stud so I could replace them with bolts?
Spanner Man
27-02-08, 07:25 AM
Good morning all.
8 x 1.25 mm is the thread size I think. I did that from memory so don't quote me on it!:D
Cheers.
Good morning all.
8 x 1.25 mm is the thread size I think. I did that from memory so don't quote me on it!:D
Cheers.
yeah thats correct, I used M8 x 1.25 stainless allen bolts only the other day for this
yorkie_chris
27-02-08, 12:44 PM
More chance of damaging the threads with bolts than studs
BanannaMan
28-02-08, 05:50 AM
More chance of damaging the threads with bolts than studs
http://cenvachristiansportbike.homestead.com/_1.gif
While tightening down the exhaust puts pressure on the steel threads with the studs.... With bolts you are pulling on the aluminum threads of the head.
And that continues with each periodic tightning...or worse....
The high heat often causes the stud to seize in the block. So if you're using a bolt and try to tighten or remove it...guess what...you've got another problem.
Studs are pretty much the standard for securing exhaust manifolds to nearly every internal combustion engine made. (for a reason)
Replace with a new stud and use never-seize on the threads.
punyXpress
28-02-08, 01:13 PM
And use brass nuts preferably deep enough to cover stud & reduce corrosion and Copperslip the steel nuts seem designed to rot!
Best of luck
Seems that the original Suzuki parts are allen bolts though (at least for the K3) , not studs as you would expect.
If you were going to take off the exhaust nuts for the first time, what would you do to give you the best chance of getting them off without any of the aforementioned mishaps?
If you were going to take off the exhaust nuts for the first time, what would you do to give you the best chance of getting them off without any of the aforementioned mishaps?
A liberal squirt of WD40 and some time to let it soak in. Depends on the current fasterners you have but make sure you use a good allen key socket or properly sized socket firmly positioned. If it deosnt move you may benefit from an impact driver.
The fasterners for the rear cylinder exhaust brakcet can be pretty tricky to get to, but that can also mean that the previous fitter may not have done them up too tight....if you're lucky.
Above all be patient and dont be tempted to get the hacksaw out :-)....not yet at least.
Depends on the mileage of the bike and how many winters it had been through, mine had done 4 winters and 33k. One stud nut had a 11mm socket hammered on to it, is its 12mm shape had rotted away. The other one as you know had to be cut off, though next time I will use a nut splitter.
timwilky
28-02-08, 03:07 PM
A liberal squirt of WD40 and some time to let it soak in. Depends on the current fasterners you have but make sure you use a good allen key socket or properly sized socket firmly positioned. If it deosnt move you may benefit from an impact driver.
WD40, is not a penetration oil. A liberal squirt of of Plus Gas or similar would be far more effective
WD40, is not a penetration oil. A liberal squirt of of Plus Gas or similar would be far more effective
...now you tell me ;)
Thanks for replies.
The bike is a 650 K1, first registered june '03. It had done 7k seemingly dry miles, was immaculate - and handled like a drunken pig, which probably accounts for the 5 previous owners!
I got it in sept 2006 and sorted the handling by aligning the wheels properly and more importantly fitting Hagon progressives and Mich PR2's(which are still on and got tread left)
Now it's done just over 16k miles and been through two riding winters. The nuts look OK, if a little bit rusty. I've got a 6 point deep impact socket which fits OK. I don't really need to take the nuts off but being seriously obsessive, I thought I ought to check them out sooner rather than later :rolleyes:
cheers.
Well to me it sounds like your will come out much easier then mine did, as it just looked like a brown lump.
grinch,
did the rost ice help?
northwind
28-02-08, 06:29 PM
A liberal squirt of WD40 and some time to let it soak in.
It's worth getting some real penetrating oil for this sort of thing, WD40 does all right considering but Plusgas will shift bolts WD40 won't touch frinstance.
Did you get the stud out then?
It's worth getting some real penetrating oil for this sort of thing, WD40 does all right considering but Plusgas will shift bolts WD40 won't touch frinstance.
Just checking prices of plus gas.. Should I get the 250 ml aerosol for about £4 or the litre tin for about £7? Spray on or brush on? I 'won' a 1/2 pint can of releasing oil when I was an apprentice; it was called Releasol or Lusol or sth like that. Probably used it 4 or 5 times in 35 years. Best get the squirty container?
northwind
28-02-08, 07:21 PM
I got a couple of the wee aerosols, still on the first... Like a lot of good products you end up using much less
Sid Squid
28-02-08, 07:36 PM
If you were going to take off the exhaust nuts for the first time, what would you do to give you the best chance of getting them off without any of the aforementioned mishaps?
Unless they come out easily at the very first attempt I wouldn't even try to undo them, get a hacksaw and cut through the nut along side the thread of the stud - it takes a few minutes only. Spread the remaining bit of nut with a sharp tap, easy with that of course, and it will come off very easily.
If you don't have a die, get a suitable nut and put the saw blade through the hole, cut three or four full thread depth notches into the nut and use it to clear/trim the thread of the stud with.
grinch,
did the rost ice help?
Not had a chance to try it, if the weather is good then its a job for tomorrow or Sat. But cheers again...
Jax told me off for yappin as she said she was going to give me 30 secs more then drive off... lol.
Did you get the stud out then?
See above.
Can you get copper nuts and studs almost anywhere?
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