View Full Version : Bemsee Brands Indy Race Reports
redbiker 954
10-03-08, 03:23 PM
Right come on then spill the beans how'd your weekend go.
Edit: sorry for the epic length, lots to say for my first race meeting!
The weekend was excellent with lots of close racing, some ups and downs but I finished on a high. Massive thanks to Steve Piper Motorcycles for supporting me in my first year.
All week the excitement had been building for what would be my first ever race. After a manic dash home from work on the Thursday we finally got the van loaded and under way by 7pm. We rolled up at Brands near 9:30pm and once there was space in the back of the van we crashed out.
Friday Practice Day:
I got to grips with the bike and blew away the mental cobwebs. By the end of the day I was starting to get a bit overconfident and caught a slide coming onto Brabham Straight. I called it a day and went back to the pits to fit my new tyres ready for qualifying the next day.
Saturday Qualifying:
I went out to a damp track with a growing dry line. Taking it steady to start with I built up the pace and posted a personal best lap time of 58.2 seconds. This placed me 31st overall, 15th for the B&C race.
Saturday B&C Race:
I got a reasonable start but dropped down 1 place to 16th going into Paddock Hill. I can't describe how frantic it felt tipping into the steep right hander surrounded by other bikes, this will stick in my mind forever. I managed to hold my own for the first 2 laps and made a place up to 15th on lap 3 only to lose it again the next lap. Myself (73) Antony Clark (32) and Richard Willsher (34) battled it out for the remaining 4 laps, swapping positions and generally having the best ride of my life. Antony left the track on the last lap leaving Richard and myself to fight it out for 15th. Richard took the line 0.9 seconds in front of me. Fastest lap was only a 59.8 seconds which was a bit disappointing after beating that by a second and a half in qualifying.
I can't describe the feeling of finishing my first race, I came in laughing with a grin a mile wide on my face. I couldn't wait for my next race.
Saturday A&C Race:
Disaster! The heavens opened and lets say a poor tyre choice left me wobbling round on a warm up lap very nervous. My tyres were stone cold by this point after a lengthy wait in the holding area. After 3 slides in as many corners I pulled into the pits. Disappointed doesn't cover how I felt but I chalked it down to a learning experience and at least the bike and myself are still in 1 piece, "lives to fight another day" and all that. Fastest lap: errr I didn't complete one. :(
Sunday Warm Up:
A damp to wet track and my first ever time out on wets. Oh my god! The grip was fantastic from a fresh shiny set of Pirelli wets. Although only 3 laps long the track was starting to dry out a bit by the end so I backed the pace down to save the wets being shredded.
Sunday B&C Race:
The sun was out and a the track was glorious and dry. I was starting from 16th on the grid after coming off worse in my tussle with Richard Willsher in Saturdays race. A blistering start saw me into Paddock Hill in 12th position. This didn't last long as I lost a place into druids and another exiting out of Graham Hill Bend. I had a great battle for 14th with Matt Hinnells (82) and Steve Redhead (84). Steve left the circuit near the end of the race and I set about chasing down Andrew Bright (50). I was almost there when we crossed the line with less than 0.6 seconds between us with Matt Hinnells a mere 0.4 seconds behind me. A new best time for me with a fastest lap of 57.4 seconds.
Sunday A&C Race:
After my DNF on the Saturday I was starting from 30th on the grid for what was going to be another wet race. This was my first time out on wet tyres in a race so I was a bit nervous as we stopped in the holding area for another long wait. After another stonking start I piled into Paddock making up several places only to see a group of riders down and sliding into the gravel at the bottom of the hill. We managed 1 more lap before the race was red flagged.
Best of wishes and a speedy recovery to the chap who was carted off in the ambulance.
Sunday A&C Race Part 2:
The race was restarted and the sun was now out although the track was still soaking wet. The glare off the tarmac was horrible but that didn't stop the race being an excellent one. I was starting from the back again and made another good start passing 3 people, entering Paddock Hill in 22nd. I set about charging after those in front and managed to pass 3 more in the 5 lap race. I had almost chased down Tim Metcalfe (79) and Jamie King (76) who finished the race just in front of me. I'm sure with a few more laps I could have bridged the gap and got another couple of places. My first wet race and a best time of 1:03.3 which I'm happy with. I know I have more left in the rain and I'm sure next time I'll get far closer to my dry times with more practice on wet tyres.
DoodleBug
10-03-08, 07:40 PM
Excellent, I was there for your first race and did look like fun. I shall have to make sure I make a note of your race numbers next time. :smt038
Biker Biggles
10-03-08, 07:49 PM
Sounds like a good meet I usually get along to watch but I was sunning myself in foriegn parts.No excuses next time.
Thanks for the support guys, photos to come as soon as they are uploaded onto the photographers website.
Well the A, B, C grouping was so that all of us could race each other at least once. Qualifying was all 50 something of us on track at once.
Sideshow#36
11-03-08, 07:29 PM
I'll be posting mine up on me wibsite soon. :D
Does anyone know when BEMSEE wil be publishing the tables or do you still think they are locked away in a darkened room doing the maths?
Hooray! 1 point for me in the main Minitwin championship. A fairly decent haul in the Rookie cup, although my 1 DNF didn't help the cause.
Roll on Snetterton! :smt003
lukemillar
13-03-08, 10:18 PM
......<stuff>....make sense?.
No - not really!
Surely someone could have had a bad qualifying session - especially with 50+ riders fighting for clear track. Then be punted into the B group in your hypothetical situation and have had a final race pace that would have eclipsed the winner of the A group, but still get naff all points for it!
I guess they could do it on overall race time, but then again, it's not really a time trial, but a race!
Red Herring
13-03-08, 11:33 PM
If I recall the way we did it in Supermoto was to have qualifying, then the first two/three would take pole in the heat races (depending on how many grids we needed to be split into) then the next two/three would be second on their grid, and so forth. Depending on where you came in your heat (or heats depending on how many races we were having) you would then make a semi-final, winners from races making up front row, second next, third next etc, and have two/three semi-finals, then depending on where you finished in the semi put you in either the A or B final etc. It worked well because if you had a disaster in qualifying, or even in your heat, there was still a chance to recover your position and make it into the A final. Of course, if you mucked up the semi or the final....but hey, that's racing!
The groups will get smaller as the year goes on, this year they had more entries than ever for the minitwins. Last year when i raced in minitwins we got thrown in with the clubmans, after the first weekend they sorted out a points scheme that works. They first round is always a bit like testing the water. And brands always suffers from people entering just for one round, snetterton won t have as many entires!
If i can get a bike together i'll be out there towards the middle of the year :cool:
I thought it was fine as it is. Everyone gets 2 races and points are scored as normal in both. I don't see how it was unfair on anyone.
But you will be getting slower riders that when they are racing against the 'weaker' pack scoring the same as you if you are drawn in a faster pack .. I don't think it is fair at all!!
For example.
I am the 2nd fastest rider of the day. I get drawn in the same group as the fastest rider, the best I can hope for is 2nd in both of my races. However if I am in a different pack to the fastest rider, I?ll get a win in one race, 2nd in the other .. and the respective points .. how is that fair on the true 'fastest' rider?
The effect is worse still if you are picking up the lower of the 15 places,. You will have slower guys that are drawn in different pack to you potentially scoring more points than you in their 'weaker' race, you never have that as you are in a stronger pack .. and people that didn't deserve any getting some too ...
Sorry, but the only fair way is to split the pack by qualifying ?
You go run the club then, you seem to know it all.
http://www.livesets.com/forums/images/smilies/wank.gif
Keep on being the keyboard hero mate, im sure lots of people take notice of you and really listen to you opinions cos your such a racing god that knows everything.
Hit a nerve have I? Didums.
Maybe because it has nothing to do with you as you didnt even do the race?! Like i said, if you can run it better, set up your own club and do all the hard work yourself. I guess you cant do all that from your keyboard though.
But Blue, in this case if you were 2nd fastest you would race the stronger group and the slower group, once each. Thus the fastest person would get 2 wins, you would get a win and a 2nd. They would still bescoring more than you and people below you in speed would still be scoring less. There is no situation where someone slower than you will score more than you.
Hmmm, lots flying about while I typed that response.
I WAS in that race and I don't think a single person who raced thought it was in the slightest bit unfair. We all got to race each every other person. I raced against the faster group and the weaker group, thus those who were faster than me scored more points when racing against me. When I raced against the other group I might finish higher because the faster person isn't racing, but then when THEY get to race the other gropu they will finish higher still, keeping the balance.
Cheers for helping to try and explain redbiker954, I'm not sure how else I can explain it now.
THAT is the dilemma people like me are facing at the moment! Under the current format, I lie 6th in the championship when there are riders ahead of me that struggled to break into the top ten in races I finished in the top 3 (in the A vs B race) but in the B vs C race they were running at the front. They would lap 2 secs per lap slower and in the A vs B race finish 15/20 secs behind me at the flag and they are currently ahead of me in the standings?
How does that work?
Ah now I see the problem. From my lowly position near the back its worked out in my favour but if your in the A group or whichever group has the fastest riders in then your at a disadvantage versus those in either of the slower 2 groups.
Unless the number of entries drops massively I can't see how else it could be done without qualifying becoming a VERY serious thing where you determine if you can even score points for the rest of the weekend. A bad qualifying would mean you wreck all chances of getting any points for the rest of the weekend if you did an A group who scored and a B group who didn't.
Robw#70
15-03-08, 03:45 PM
They have done this in the past and it does work, there are too many prople to fill just two grids and not enough for three, everyone gets the same number of races and the points do work, it no worse than having a bad qualifying and starting from the back of the grid all weekend!
You get to race with different people in the 'heats' which keeps the racing exciting.
Evereyone bitched and moaned when they did it in 2005, but after a couple of rounds the club was complimemted by how well it worked, at first it is confusing, but once your involved it makes sense and is fair.
Sideshow#36
16-03-08, 10:23 PM
I dont know what all the fuss is about. I think it worked perfectly.
Every rider is in the same position. If you are in the "A" class you should be faster than all B & C class riders. This isnt always the case as i'm in the C class and managed to finish above a few of the A & B riders in my races. Which was quite a good morale booster.
You cant do it on lap times as it wouldn't be a race. And splitting the 3 groups ito fast medium and slow wouldnt work either. One "rookie" may be amazingly quick at Brands Indy but may be awful at somewhere like snett.
As I said I think it works very well. Fair enough a B class rider may be able to get a race win whe he races against the C class riders, but the A class riders should be getting 2 race wins in that case. So where is the problem?
I think its a problem without a perfect solution. However I also think the approach the club has taken is the best way forward to keep it as fair as possible.
The problem with then running groups based on slow medium fast is that if you qualify in one of the slower groups for whatever reason (bad tyres, change of weather conditions, crash etc.) no matter how fast you are in the race you can't score ANY points.
I'll say it again, It's a problem with no perfect answer. I would think there would be far more complaints if only the A group (based on lap times in qualifying) could score points. You might as well go home after Saturday qualifying if that were the case.
The reason being that with only 12 rookies you would have had 1 packed race and 1 race with almost no-one in it. You would then also need to run 4 races per day for minitwins rather than 3, time was short as it were.
Also several of the rookies were beating clubman riders and scoring main championship points (in the AvC race too, so its not just a slower race giving rookies points). Are they not allowed to compete in the main championship?
At our meetings qualifying only sets your first grid position for the weekend, the rest are done on finishing position in the previous race. If you can only get points if you qualify well then your setting 4 races worth of points (100 championship points!) on the line in a single 15 minute session.
While you do end up with some riders scoring more championship points than faster riders I think it will only be for the start of the year. Brands Hatch, first meeting of the year is going to be over-subscribed. Maybe a single grid will be possible at the next meeting? If it does continue then you solve the problem by seeding everyone randomly into the 3 groups. That way over the course of the season any "easy" or "hard" groups will even out points wise.
Sideshow#36
17-03-08, 08:41 PM
So glad I started this thread now (NOT)
It was started so that those that took part could post their results and race reports up and say what a good/bad weekend they had.
Since then it has been hi-jacked by a bunch of NUMPTIES .
Some who took part have a valid reason for not being too happy with the points system ,agreed, however the club in my mind is to be praised for coming up with a system to get everyone out racing,the alternative being 14 racers or so not taking part.
It's all very well for the armchair critics sitting at home saying things should be done this way or that way,however in the real world ----
Dont think I will bother posting race reports on here again,I thought that people may be interested rather than ripping the sh-t out of what happened.
We all have opinions and have the right to freedom of speech ,however there's a time and a place gentlemen, NOT hijacking a race report thread,we all have a choice as to where and who with we do our racing with.
THANKS A LOT
+1 My race reports can be found on my website.
Sorry RedBiker, I didn't mean for this to go this far. I was trying to explain the situation and thought that as someone who had taken part I might be able to explain how those who took part felt about the weekend.
Please continue to contribute in the future, I like hearing other peoples experiences on track and I'm sure others do too.
Sideshow#36
17-03-08, 09:42 PM
stop!!!!!
a few pics from the weekend by me. if any one wants any let me know.
J.
http://www.mtracing.co.uk/photos/brands090308/ (http://www.mtracing.co.uk/photos/brands090308/)
DoodleBug
18-03-08, 07:40 PM
So glad I started this thread now (NOT)
It was started so that those that took part could post their results and race reports up and say what a good/bad weekend they had.
Since then it has been hi-jacked by a bunch of NUMPTIES .
Some who took part have a valid reason for not being too happy with the points system ,agreed, however the club in my mind is to be praised for coming up with a system to get everyone out racing,the alternative being 14 racers or so not taking part.
It's all very well for the armchair critics sitting at home saying things should be done this way or that way,however in the real world ----
Dont think I will bother posting race reports on here again,I thought that people may be interested rather than ripping the sh-t out of what happened.
We all have opinions and have the right to freedom of speech ,however there's a time and a place gentlemen, NOT hijacking a race report thread,we all have a choice as to where and who with we do our racing with.
THANKS A LOT
FWIW I would like to read race reports, am tempted to have a punt at this myself next year and want to gen up a bit.
Sideshow#36
18-03-08, 07:46 PM
Just published mine on my website but.... shameless plug I know! :)
www.svracer.co.uk
Leave the personal attacks out of it. Everyone at a meeting is entitled to tell their story. Without the marshals, mechanics, family there would be no racing.
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