Easy way to fix speedo with GSXR front

[northwind]

Here's the simplest and quickest way I know of to make this work. Not the cheapest, probably not the neatest but you can stealth it to your heart's content as the speedo pickup is so titchy. I knew this would work but I only actually did it tonight so I've not posted it before, Stu has the exact same setup on his.

You need just 2 things, or possibly one if you're prepared to do a certain amount of messing about in the fitment stage.

1) Wiring loom for a Veypor datalogger (which also comes with cable ties, superglue, and some magnets. £41.57 delivered within the UK.
http://www.veypor.co.uk/xcart/product.php?productid=16143

2) For ease of fitment, some stronger magnets- I used these beasts:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130204440787&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=003

They're strong enough that the sensor works at over an inch away, which means that i don't need a bracket- the sensor can be simply attached to the swingarm and the magnets to the rear disc. You could fit it elsewhere- rear sprocket, front disc, wheel rims... But rear disc is very simple and quick, so I've put it there for now. The Veypor ones do work but the sensor has to be just right, and very close- frankly I can't be bothered with that.

Step 1- the veypor harness has loads of extra stuff on it, sadly we're paying money for this and we don't need it. Chop off the speedo sensor from the harness. This is a great wee sensor, it's tiny- about 8mm by 15mm by 4mm at its largest points. It's also now well waterproofed- the old one wasn't, and mine broke, but the new one has been adapted and sealed.

Step 2- Cut the plug off the old speedo sensor.

Step 3- after adjusting length, wire the Veypor sensor to the SV speedo wiring. These follow this wiring scheme for the carbed SV:

Veypor uninsulated wire to SV black and white wire (earth)
Veypor black wire to SV pink wire (+5/6V)
Veypor red wire to SV orange and red wire. (+12V)

If you mess this up, you will melt the sensor and possibly damage your clocks. So don't. The pointy may be the same (ask Stu!) but the easiest thing to do is to check the outputs from the clocks with a voltmeter.

Step 4- fit magnets to something suitable, such as the rear disc, wheel etc. You want this fairly close to equally spaced but don't worry if they're a little off, for instance I have the 4 magnets on the rear disc, which has 5 "arms"- so they're a bit off equal. It works fine. You need to get all the polarities the same, and a bit of glue is not a bad idea.

Step 5- attach sensor near to magnets and test. Mine is attached right to the swingarm, and the gap between it and the magnets is about an inch, with these magnets it works perfectly. Less powerful magnets will need more fine tuning though.

Step 6- there is no step 6. Oh, OK, you can tidy up the wires if you like. I haven't, it looks more or less like the electrical section in B&Q just now :rolleyes:

And, well, that's it. If you're thinking this could be done cheaper, yes it could, with the Veypor sensor you're paying extra for stuff you don't need. I've asked Nathan at Veypor nicely if he can tell us where he gets his from, but I've never seen them for sale. If you're thinking it could be done more stylishly, with magnets fitted into brake disc rotors etc, that's also true- but to be honest I think that just overcomplicates things.

No pics- in all honesty there's no point, once it's fitted right only the magnets will be visible and they'll be well tucked away. The sensor is hidden on the inside of the swingarm so it's invisible unless you're really looking. You could go for a real stealth install if you want but I'm not sure it's needed.

Job jobbed...

[John 675]

bookmarked!!!

[northwind]

Oh yeah, I've got loads of magnets left, I bought 3 lots of different sizes so if anyone needs any, give us a shout. Currently they're just sticking all my tools to all my other tools (I couldn't find a 14mm spanner earlier- it was stuck to the roof of the toolbox)

[Blue_SV650S]

Nice idea, but two things strike me ... the second more important than the first ...

Firstly I assume the stock one is magnetically triggered, so why not just chop up the stock speedo pickup and do the same thing and save yourself ?40? ... and I thought you were a Scotsman!?!? Hang your head in shame at missing that trick!! :D

But secondly and more importantly, you have assumed the front and rear wheels rotate at the same rate?!? ... Well that is not so, the rolling circumference of the front and rear wheels are significantly different, this will screw your indicated speed right up ... :shock:

Quickly measuring a couple of tyres I had knocking about, the front was 181cm the rear 198cm .. so that is ~10% your speedo will be under-reading ... not a happy situation for your licence or bragging rights!! ;)













Before anyone says it ... sure speedos tend to over read as stock (tend to, they don't always have to, its just manufacturing errors!!) ;)

[Dangerous Dave]

Stock speedo on the rear wheel is more accurate than when it is on the front I think.

[northwind]

(There's no way I can do this response without looking like a smartarse, so I'm not even going to try :D)

You can do the rear wheel speedo mod only on the curvy SV (as the pointy has different sized axles), and it's harder if not impossible to do with other wheels, so it's limited. I did it myself (in fact, as far as I know I was the first person to make it reliable using the wheel castellation method, Zook 5-0 was the first person I know of to do it at all but he never made it work right) This works for both bikes, and it's easier to do- the rear wheel speedo needs you to grind the drive, caliper hanger and rotor down so it's time consuming, and it complicates wheel changes. It also leaves the fragile rotor in the equation, mine finally packed in so rather than spend money on another (£15) I thought I'd remove it entirely for a simpler solution.

It's a good mod though, that rear wheel trick this is just simpler, you don't even need to remove the wheel.

(here is the thread I wrote about it 3 years ago:
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=61329&highlight=speedo+rear+wheel)

This mod's "competition", if you will, is the assorted methods such as Jim or Newt's speedo kits, or finding your own from Farnell or similiar- the prices work out about eqivalent but this is a much smaller sensor than any other I've seen, so I like it for that reason.

You mean cm by the way, not mm, unless you were looking at minimoto tyres :smt016

The wheel circimference error isn't really an issue, it's exactly the same as if you do it with the stock sensor of course- if it concerns you there's no reason not to put it on the front of course, if you want to keep the stock error, but I checked mine against a Veypor and it came out almost accurate (it still underreads fractionally at 40mph) Bragging rights aren't an issue, and why would they be on a girly commuter? :)

As for overlooking it:
http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=75358&highlight=revelation

This one's just from 2006 though ;)

[VARIABLE9]

Interesting.

[Blue_SV650S]

..

Ok, so it wasn't an oversight, how dare I think that Mr Northy could have made such a schoolboy error!! :notworthy: :D

As for fitting the complete stock sensor to the rear, that is not what I meant (interesting idea though) . I meant dismantling it and taking out the trigger mechanism/pickup and then placing this in an appropriate place like you have your after market pickup ... if you are assuming there is an ~10% over-read in your speedo, then indeed the rear is a good move. If you want to play it safe then the front!!!

[northwind]

Hmm, interesting thought that. It's a sealed unit but there might well be something in there that would work. Never thought of that, not sure if anyone else has either for that matter. Anyone got a broken one to play with?

[richwill68]

Oh yeah, I've got loads of magnets left, I bought 3 lots of different sizes so if anyone needs any, give us a shout. Currently they're just sticking all my tools to all my other tools (I couldn't find a 14mm spanner earlier- it was stuck to the roof of the toolbox)

I think I may need a few Northy!:cool:

Rich:D

[northwind]

I'll stick some to your discs :smt001

[richwill68]

I'll stick some to your discs :smt001


Awww, fanks!:D

[yorkie_chris]

How do you fix them?

I bought drilled ones and bolted them into the front disc rivets.

[northwind]

I just stuck them to the disc with magnetism for now- that works up to 100, haven't tested it past that. But with my Veypor, I did the same with a dab of superglue and it was rock solid.

[Blue_SV650S]

Anyone got a broken one to play with?

Didn't you say you had one ;) .. get the hacksaw out man!! :)

[northwind]

Nah, the sensor for mine works and it's been modded to work with the rear wheel relocate, so I'll probably take off all the modded bits and stick 'em on Ebay as a kit ;)

[Stu]

Awh no pics!
When I get home I don't mind adding pics of mine. Because I didn't upgrade the magnets I was very limited as to where I could place them. (they're currently not very good with tape but loathe to change it as it works at the moment.
Even placement of the 4 magnets is really not necessary as I have 5 magnets on mine, one doesn't work (but I can achieve 150mph on my SV! :lol:) but it still reads quite smooth.
As to the speedo error, compared with a GPS I found that moving the speedo to a 120/70 made it more accurate, now it's on a 160/60 it is almost perfect but if anything definetely reads a higher speed than lower, i.e. safe

got 2 speedo sensors - one complete with broken magnets (21Quests' if he wants it back before I give it away :D) & mine with good magnets but cut cable.

[northwind]

I just stuck them to the disc with magnetism for now- that works up to 100, haven't tested it past that. But with my Veypor, I did the same with a dab of superglue and it was rock solid.

2 of them fell off on tuesday, on a trackday :rolleyes: So glue them on- official. Luckily they didn't ping out the back and banjo the guy behind me...

[richwill68]

OK, here goes!

Have successfully transplanted front speedo drive to rear wheel and works fine. Have no pics at present but will post some later (If I can! I'm OK in the workshop, not too hot on the PC thingy).

Method is pretty easy. Need a bit of milling on the rear caliper hanger (about a fiver at a decent local machine shop). a piece of aluminium plate about 2-3mm thick and just 3mm bigger than the outside diameter of the rear bearing, a good hacksaw/files/plasters and a bit of patience. Sound good?

Well, the fitted part looks to all intents and purposes as though Suzuki meant it to be:D

I'll post drawings with dimensions when I get a chance.

Regards

Rich:cool:

[Stu]

2 of them fell off on tuesday, on a trackday :rolleyes: So glue them on- official. Luckily they didn't ping out the back and banjo the guy behind me...
You had someone behind you :shock:




:lol:

[Warthog]

I have a broken front speedo sensor, will PM you northy.

[northwind]

You had someone behind you :shock:


Sometimes they got stuck there before they overtook ;)

[sv_rory]

does it matter what size magnets you use for this ? i can find some that are 3mm deep as apposed to 5 mm

[northwind]

There's no particular size that's best, just that the more powerful they are, the further they can be from the sensor and have it still work... I just chose these ones at random to be totally honest... They're crazily strong (they HURT if you're not careful!) but it makes it so easy to set up.

[Stu]

Veypor uninsulated wire to SV black and white wire (earth)
Veypor black wire to SV pink wire (+5/6V)
Veypor red wire to SV orange and red wire. (+12V)
...
Exact same on a Pointy

[northwind]

Cool. Oh, and to add another wee thing, some pointies appear to use an 8-pole sensor now instead of 4-pole, which just means "use more magnets". Not enough info to say which is which.

[sv_rory]

ive just ordered the parts now so should have this fully working some time next week.

i bought the wiring harness and 15 round 10mm x 5mm magnets from ebay.

il let you know how i get on

[Binky]

Is this what i'd need.

http://www.supermagnete.de/eng/more_pics.php?article_id=S-08-05-N

[Dangerous Dave]

Have a look on Ebay for Neodymium magnets, you can get countersunk (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190256917993) ones so you can bolt them to the rivets of the the brake disc (as Yorkie Chris advised me) or the solid ones you can glue on.

Chris's bike
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb45/loubi650/2008_03250003.jpg

I have the counter sunk ones fitted, been there for two weeks now and so far they are still there.....

[Stu]

DD Now you tell me :roll: & is there 12 brake disc rivets?[-o< I was always trying to work with the 5 brake disc bolts (front & rear) & never got a smooth readout.

[Dangerous Dave]

The problem I have is I got Braking Wave discs fitted to the front, they have ten rivets so the four magnets will be out of alignment unlike Chris' OEM discs above which have eight rivets.

Depending on the year of bike will depend how many magnets you need, Curvy's and early Pointy's need four magnets while the later (think it starts at K6) will need eight magnets.

Northwind's bike
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/Northwindlowlander/Bike%20tech/Speedo%20pickup/IMG_0740.jpg

I have not tried mine yet, I have not rigged up the sensor, but Northys bike above has the rivets glued to the rear disc. As you can see they are not evenly spaced, but one full rotation send four (or eight depending on model) pulses.

As to its accuracy with uneven magnets I can not comment yet.

I was always trying to work with the 5 brake disc bolts (front & rear) & never got a smooth readout.
Thats because it was five, not four or eight.

[Loser]

The problem I have is I got Braking Wave discs fitted to the front, they have ten rivets so the four magnets will be out of alignment unlike Chris' OEM discs above which have eight rivets.

Depending on the year of bike will depend how many magnets you need, Curvy's and early Pointy's need four magnets while the later (think it starts at K6) will need eight magnets.

I have a K5 and it needed 8 magnets. Also i cant comment on magnet spacing effect on readout accuracy or smoothness. This was the reason i looked around for OEM GSXR disks when i did the conversion to avoid any potential problems! Ended up getting brand new ones for less than alot of 2nd hand ones are sold at.

btw i glued my magnets in, all 8 of them and they are still there a few thousand miles later. I used one of the little hamlin sensors and it worked perfectly.

[Stu]

The problem I have is I got Braking Wave discs fitted to the front, they have ten rivets so the four magnets will be out of alignment unlike Chris' OEM discs above which have eight rivets.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i136/stu369/STA71435-1.jpg
my GSXR Brake discs appear to have 10 rivets. I thought they were OEM. Don't know where you/Chris got 8 rivet ones from :???:

[Loser]

sorry i should have said on the K4/K5 GSXR front end the standard number of rivets is 8 - i'm sure it could be different on older or newer models

[Dangerous Dave]

my GSXR Brake discs appear to have 10 rivets. I thought they were OEM. Don't know where you/Chris got 8 rivet ones from :???:
From the factory they had eight ('96-'02), the thing is there are many pattern part manufacturers out there.

How does you speedo run with uneven magnets on the rivets, or have you done it another way?

[dirtydog]

I don't Stus speedo does work, he just keeps going faster till he gets pulled by the police ;-)

[Stu]

From the factory they had eight ('96-'02), the thing is there are many pattern part manufacturers out there.

How does you speedo run with uneven magnets on the rivets, or have you done it another way?
My Gixxer front is 750 Y-K3 I believe, but the discs could be anything :smt102.
The speedo's now on the rear brake disc - not exactly on, but based on the 5 bolts with some attempt to space the 4 of them evenly.
The speedo's really not bad at all as regards being unstable & running off the rear it is more accurate i.e. doesn't overread like std.

[Dangerous Dave]

The speedo's really not bad at all as regards being unstable & running off the rear it is more accurate i.e. doesn't overread like std.
Aye, i have the OEM one rigged to the back wheel. Its been there since 2000 and so far has never needed to be looked at as it has been 100% reliable. I am thinking about changing the rear end, hence my switch to a sensor and magnets.

[dirtydog]

Right I've finally got around to buying a sensor to sort my speedo. I just need to work out what wires gto what, last one of these I did the sensor had 3 different colour wires coming from it but this one has 3 black wires, the middle one has a white trace on it too. It looks just like YCs one. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[yorkie_chris]

Mine had some VERY faint trace colours on it, and I just made an educated guess from the page on greeks sig, and the sensor datasheet.

[dirtydog]

Ah right i'll have another look at it then. Mine is the honeywell sensor