2002 sv 650 fuel tank problem

[bravehart]

hi all, i have a female friend who bought a 2002 sv650s and it was leaking fuel through a hole out of the bottom of the bike all the time. so i figured it was the fuel over flow tube, and it was broken in side of the fuel tank so that caused it to leak all the time. so as a temperary fix i plug the hose with a screw to stop the leak and everything seemed to be fine. she took it to the local bike dealer and they told her that because the overflow tube was pluged fuel was backing up and getting into the cooling system. i wanted to know was this posssible?

[embee]

Suspect there was a bit of misunderstanding going on.

The tube you're talking about is the drain tube for the recess where the fuel filler is to allow water to drain away so that it doesn't just fall into the tank when you open the filler.

Unfortunately they have a habit of rusting through and thus
1 - allowing rain water into the fuel
2 - allowing fuel to leak out and run out of the bottom of the pipe, as you describe.

Whatever, there is no possible connection between the fuel tank and the cooling system, I suspect they were talking about water drain or something. (EDIT - I'm wrong on this, read the post from Sid Squid below!!!!!)

As far as I'm aware there isn't a successful fix other than replace the tank, though you could "try" sleeving the drain tube somehow.

[bravehart]

i though it was just a fuel over flow. but thanks!

he was just pulling her leg

[Sid Squid]

The filler well drain and the coolant header tank overflow are teed together and share the same drain hose. If the drain is plugged then fuel from a broken/corroded filler well drain tube will pass into the header tank, I have seen this once before.

[embee]

The filler well drain and the coolant header tank overflow are teed together and share the same drain hose. If the drain is plugged then fuel from a broken/corroded filler well drain tube will pass into the header tank, I have seen this once before.

:notworthy:

[bravehart]

The filler well drain and the coolant header tank overflow are teed together and share the same drain hose. If the drain is plugged then fuel from a broken/corroded filler well drain tube will pass into the header tank, I have seen this once before.

ok, i understand. thanks for your help:cool:

[BigBaddad]

yep ..... I got this problem too.....fuel appears to be in the header tank, and fuel leaking from the breather and the rear of the tank.

[Stevetmanchester]

i have these same problems how was it fixed a new tank?!!! seems a bit extreme!

[petevtwin650]

Thanks to BBD pointing this out to me I have now seperated the two overflows so there is no possibility of contamination or confusion.

I've also acquired a brand new tank off of Ebay for when the problem arises.:cool:

[Stevetmanchester]

so could i just separate the 2 pipes and plug one of them up?

which pipes do i need to seperate... I'm a bit new to this!

[petevtwin650]

Dunno about plugging the petrol overflow pipe.:scratch:

However if you raise the tank you'll see a long pipe running down the left side of the frame on the top. This goes into a t-piece under the rear of the tank. Disconnect the pipes and run them seperately. The long pipe is from the coolant header tank on the front right.

Can't understand if it's the overflow from the fuel tank why it's leaking though.

[Stevetmanchester]

no i don't either...

is it not the problem described earlier where the tank has rusted internally and allows it to leak through??? or is it coming out of the wrong place for that to be the case?

[yorkie_chris]

The fuel tank doesn't have an overflow at all.

There is a drain from the filler cap to let water that leaks in through the cap so it doesn't sit there and get into the fuel when you open the cap.

It's likely that this has rusted inside the tank and it letting fuel out.


IMO you could push a rubber tube down the original one and seal both ends around the tube

[petevtwin650]

The fuel tank doesn't have an overflow at all.

There is a drain from the filler cap to let water that leaks in through the cap so it doesn't sit there and get into the fuel when you open the cap.

It's likely that this has rusted inside the tank and it letting fuel out.


IMO you could push a rubber tube down the original one and seal both ends around the tube

So you should be able isolate the drain tube rubber, blow from the open end and bubbles should appear in the fuel tank.

Are you suggesting running a tube inside the existing one YC, cos the bores not that big is it?

Be good if it worked though.:D

[Stevetmanchester]

would that stop it leaking is so get a piece of rubber tubing (slightly smaller) tape both ends of it and feed it up the original tube

i take it that is after the tee piece?

[yorkie_chris]

Yarp I am indeed.

Better than a new tank, though using small bore tubing it would probably block more easily...

[yorkie_chris]

would that stop it leaking is so get a piece of rubber tubing (slightly smaller) tape both ends of it and feed it up the original tube

No.

Take the tank off, look at the back of it just in front of the pivot, there's a spigot stuck down, you need to feed a tube unsealed through there right out of the hole at the side of the filler cap.

Then seal up AROUND the small tube so it blocks the large tube but a flow-path is still there.

[petevtwin650]

Yarp I am indeed.

Better than a new tank, though using small bore tubing it would probably block more easily...

Two problems with this idea YC. Getting a pipe thin enough with a big enough bore to flow fluid and won't it perish where the petrol is getting to it or will it be totally resitant externally.

Certainly better than a new tank if it can be done.=D>

[Stevetmanchester]

that all sounds quite complicated!!

if i did that would that be a permanent fix or just a temporary solution?

how much am i looking at for a new tank?

[petevtwin650]

Our tank was 110 quid off Ebay.

Brand new, never been fitted and sealed at all the outlets and openings. Still in the original box.

[Stevetmanchester]

that seems reasonable but being a poor student a cheap fix would be more to my liking!

plus just looked on ebay and there doesn't seem to be any tanks!

[petevtwin650]

Yeah YC idea is brilliant if it works, especially as eventually all tanks could suffer with it.

Perhaps he could source the bits and market a little kit.

Decent tanks on ebay are very rare IME

[Stevetmanchester]

that would be great if he could! :D

[yorkie_chris]

I think I heard about that fix from someone else but yes I could do a little kit.

If the pipe has totally snapped then you've no chance though.

[Stevetmanchester]

got to be worth a try hasnt it? how much would you want to knock up a little kit with some instructions? im willing to try anything at the moment becuase i cant cant afford a new fuel tank (cant seem to find where i would get one from anyway)

[Stevetmanchester]

tomaso has kindly offered me his old tank for ?20 plus postage but it needs a bit of TLC!

http://forums.sv650.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=1521&d=1210011829

Anybody have any idea how much for it to be repaired / resprayed???

[yorkie_chris]

20 quid for 4 cans of satin black paint, some body filler and some wet and dry :-P

Yes it's true... for such a small sum your bike could look as much of a ratter as mine :-D


If you want to try the tank to avoid repairing the other one then bring it to me and I'll do it for free

[Stevetmanchester]

cheers for that Chris I'm in Nottingham at the moment at uni thats the only problem! i was going to try your fix today... i think i have got the right idea let me just run it by you...

so i need to put a new piece of tube up the original one something like this badly drawn picture....

1643

then seal it at the bottom and top.

Questions...

1. what type and size of pipe do i need (only have access to b and q and screwfix)

2. what do i seal it with (aralaldite?)

3. will this not mean the rust will mix with the petrol and can that cause problems?


i was going to try this fix first and if it works source a new tank and swap over when i have got a bit more cash!

[yorkie_chris]

Yes thats the idea. Araldite will do it.

Drain the tank first then after the araldite dries swill some tank sealer round it.

Yes the petrol getting rust in it can cause problems but easy to sort out just pull the vacuum tap off and clean the filter screen out


As for the type of tubing, maybe aquarium tubing, maybe some brass tube will fit down there.

Check out the bay area riders forum, there's a big thread about tygaboy making zadar a carbon fibre race tank and there's some good pics of an SV tank chopped up, give you an idea of how awkward it's going to be to slide the tube in ;-)

[Stevetmanchester]

Just rode it home today (back to Manchester) me and my dad took it apart and had a look at it what we have decided to do is...

-pump araldite down the tube to fill it SEE PICTURE
1644
-block both ends of the hole under the filler and at the bottom of the tank
-silicone the filler cap on to prevent water going under it
-redo the coolant pipe (minus the tee piece for the old tank pipe) SEE PICTURE
1645

This should then stop the petrol leak without needing to buy a new tank.

What do you reckon to this??

if no water can leak under the filler then surly that pipe can be blocked fixing my problems??


Let me no if you can spot any problems with my plan!

[yorkie_chris]

Water will sit in the filler cap and go in the tank as soon as you open it or go down the filler neck by seeping past the seal on the moving part of the cap.

Hope the drain screws on your carbs work ;-)

[Stevetmanchester]

thats why i was going to put a bead of silicon around the filler cap before i put it back on to stop any water getting under it.

will that not be suffice?

[yorkie_chris]

No because the cap and the ring under it aren't a perfect seal. Why do you think people get water issues when the drain gets blocked?

A capful of meths in the fuel every now and again might sort it when it starts to misbehave. (meths will mix with water and burn off)

[Stevetmanchester]

ahh right ok...

well im off back to uni tomorrow so wont be doing anything for a couple of weeks now till exams are finished!

i will try feeding some hose through first like you suggested but if i cant get it through then blocking it may be my only solution untill i can afford a new tank!

cheers for your help!

will let you no how it goes when i tackle it in a few weeks!

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah, then again might be fine. A friend of mine had a bandit with a knackered fuel cap. Half a cup of meths per tank allowed it to carry on running :-P

[yorkie_chris]

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=1528894#post1528894

See that thread for what happens when the vent tubes blocked...

[Sid Squid]

Sorry to be negative, but you need another tank.

Having seen this problem several times I know from trying everything suggested here and far more that short of opening the tank up, (that is; cutting the bottom out of it, replacing the tube and welding it back up), you'll never fix it, and you can't just block the drain - it's there for a good reason.

This is a well trodden path, look here (http://forums.sv650.org/search.php?searchid=788978) for some previous posts, and those are just mine - plenty on this subject on this forum.

[Stevetmanchester]

the good reason being to drain away the water? (correct me if I'm wrong)

so surly if i stop that good reason being there (IE stop water getting under the filler cap)

then the drain is no longer needed?


OR...

as Chris has suggested putting a new pipe inside the old one. if i can get that pipe in why wouldn't it work?

I'm not disregarding what you are saying you may be correct that there is no 'fix' I'm just trying to find a solution before having to replace the tank.

any help / input is welcomed.

[dirtydog]

I don't think it's possible to make the petrol cap completely water tight surely if you did it would cause a vacuum in the tank?

I would trust the Squid with what he's saying as he does know his stuff

[yorkie_chris]

I don't think it's possible to make the petrol cap completely water tight surely if you did it would cause a vacuum in the tank?

I would trust the Squid with what he's saying as he does know his stuff

Yup I would agree. Don't see why you can't run a tube inside the original drain though. What problems did you run into oh squidly one?

[zadar]

common problem is end of pipe breaking of on top under cap.it is easy fix.

[yorkie_chris]

So to repair...
Tin opener, MIG welder, soldering kit and faith :-P

[zadar]

no.that was opened for different reason.

[yorkie_chris]

I know :-P

So how do you fix the tube with the tank still in one piece?

[Stevetmanchester]

ok so today i started on the leaking tube problem

found some pipe in my scottoiler box and was able to reuse it

covered the pipe in araldite and slid it through (wasnt as easy as it sounds!)

slow setting araldite so got to leave over night to set.

will update tomorrow.

cheap fix if it works £5!

fingers crosssed :D
1722
1723
1724
1725

[Stevetmanchester]

FIXED!!!

Been in the garage with a full tank of petrol and not a drop of fuel!

Cheers for the advice chris worked a treat and cheap to!

lets just hope it stay fixed!

heres a pic after a well needed clean! (with the fixed tank)

:):):)
1730
1731

[Biker Biggles]

Any update on this?Did your pipe within a pipe stay fuel tight or was it just a temporary fix?I ask because BB juniors curvy leaked a load of fuel yesterday and I fear he may have the same problem.:mad:

[yorkie_chris]

If they leak randomly then stop it can be carb floats..

[Biker Biggles]

Yes I didnt catch it "in the act"of leaking,just a strong smell of petrol.Bike was standing in a pool of water (from all that rain)so couldnt see where anything had come out.Would the carbs still overfill when the engine was off?I thought they required inlet vacuum to open the fuel tap,and power to pump the fuel.Or can an open float chamber siphon fuel anyway?

[yorkie_chris]

Nah can't siphon it but the vacuum fuel taps don't always close immediately, and they can flow a lot of fuel.

[Biker Biggles]

Cheers.Proof of this pudding will be when he next fills up and see if it dumps a load more fuel.

[Stevetmanchester]

its been about a month now and the fix is still working sorry BB only just noticed that you had commented on the thread.

But yeh the pipe is working fine no leaks trusty araldite and fish tank hose!

[Taipan]

I bought Steves bike and i gather it didn't work as its now sealed up at the bottom of the tank. I'll have to look into this further. I'm wondering if I can make a better repair by threading copper brake pipe down there and sealing at the top with solder? Thoughts?

[yorkie_chris]

Give it a go. Be careful with your choice of heat source ;-)

[Taipan]

I've spent about 3 hours trying to get the plastic pipe out! I dont recommend anyone try this as a repair. I'm actually suspending the tank in mid air the picture below! Not entirely sure the pie is fractured as I can pressurise the pipe if I put my finger over it at one end and blow it from the other?

[Gerry]

I've spent about 3 hours trying to get the plastic pipe out! I dont recommend anyone try this as a repair. I'm actually suspending the tank in mid air the picture below! Not entirely sure the pie is fractured as I can pressurise the pipe if I put my finger over it at one end and blow it from the other?

Sorry to be dim, but if it's not fractured, why are you trying to get it out ?

G

[Gerry]

Looks like this (fuel leak out of breather pipe) may be my problem as well.

Slow, but steady leak from pipe, losing about an egg cup full in 24 hours.
Very strange "growth" on the end of the pipe as well, looks like ice crystals, but it's about 5 deg outside so not sure. have taken pics of it for your amusement ;)

Grabbed a random bloke to "listen for bubbles" as I blew up the pipe (that was a funny conversation as I lead him into my garage) :confused:

Bubbles... so spent the last 45 mins taking the tank off, cleaning the ends and pushing a bit of wire through the tank to see if it was completely broken. Wire popped up, so I guess not.

Now off to find a small piece of pipe - wish me luck on a Sunday !

Taken pics of everything as it may help other mechnaical retards like me in the future. That's if I don't manage to set fire to myself or get arrested for making lewd comments to the general public :cool:

[Gerry]

Update:

Found some Hozelock 4mm plastic / rubberised irrigation hose.

I would think it's about as big a hose as you can get down there, but it's quite a thin wall so won't restrict the flow of water from the fuel cap.
(Just remembered, I was going to test a bit in petrol but forgot) :confused:

Bit of a fiddle getting it down (up) as it kept sticking about half way, but I passed my bit of wire through and "sawed" it back and forth a few times, sharpened the end of the hose, added a little thick grease and it went.

Glued the ends in (but left them long) and will leave like that for 24 hours now.
Next is to cut the fuel cap end flush, but I'll leave a little poking out of the bottom end as it will just poke into the rubber hose when I re attach it.

I've not glued the whole length, as it's quite tight and I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to get it in with glue on. Just about an inch either end.

More tomorrow night.

Cheers
G

[fastdruid]

Looks like this (fuel leak out of breather pipe) may be my problem as well.

Slow, but steady leak from pipe, losing about an egg cup full in 24 hours.
Very strange "growth" on the end of the pipe as well, looks like ice crystals, but it's about 5 deg outside so not sure. have taken pics of it for your amusement ;)

Petrol as it evaporates (due to the latent heat of evaporation) will reduce the temperature, if it is close-ish to 0 already then you will get ice crystals.

Druid

[Gerry]

Petrol as it evaporates (due to the latent heat of evaporation) will reduce the temperature, if it is close-ish to 0 already then you will get ice crystals.
Druid

Thanks...

I knew I should not have bunked off school so much :p

G

[Taipan]

Sorry to be dim, but if it's not fractured, why are you trying to get it out ?

G

The pipe you see suspended is a plastic tube inserted throgh the drain hole and sealed with araldite. It didn't work so it was sealed up by glueing it in and blocking it completely. This lead to water in the tank and the associated running problems of water in the fuel. The plastic pipe liner is at best a temp repair and I dont like temp repairs like that. So I used a copper brake pipe as a liner and soldered it at the end and effected a permanent repair (hopefully). See this thread (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2139610#post2139610) for details.

[Gerry]

The pipe you see suspended is a plastic tube inserted throgh the drain hole and sealed with araldite. It didn't work so it was sealed up by glueing it in and blocking it completely. This lead to water in the tank and the associated running problems of water in the fuel. The plastic pipe liner is at best a temp repair and I dont like temp repairs like that. So I used a copper brake pipe as a liner and soldered it at the end and effected a permanent repair (hopefully). See this thread (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=2139610#post2139610) for details.

Wish I'd spotted your thread before I went for the plastic / rubber fix.

Saying that, 90% of the pipework on the bike is rubber, so it may outlast me anyway :)

Cheers
G

[Gerry]

Just thought I'd pop up an update...

Job done :D

For those like me, not to good with spanners, thought I'd put some pics up to show how simple it was to do, it's an easy job, honest.

Pipe at the bottom of the tank:
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff325/Simpsons1979/SV%20Tank/IMG_6000.jpg

Two pipes & electrical connection
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff325/Simpsons1979/SV%20Tank/IMG_6001.jpg

What I used, hose was just right, stiffish and as big as you could get down.
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff325/Simpsons1979/SV%20Tank/IMG_6006.jpg

In through the top:
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff325/Simpsons1979/SV%20Tank/IMG_6007.jpg

Out though the bottom:
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff325/Simpsons1979/SV%20Tank/IMG_6008.jpg

Glued the ends (and about an inch on the end of the hose) and after it had dried cut down to fit flush.

Have lots of hose left if anybody is in need (FOC) !

The only stupid thing I did was to drop a bolt into the the tank when I was putting the filler cap back on :-( I figured that even though there was a big lip inside the tank, if I shook it upside down it would come out sooner or later.
It was later - about twenty minutes of manic shaking, got covered with petrol and couldn't lift anything for two days !
But - the sound of silence, mid shake, when it finally fell out was brilliant :p

Cheers
G

[Curvieone]

Did it work? I'm about to do my '99 curvie but planing on using PP leak stop rather than araldite to seal it.

[fastdruid]

The PP leak stop is good stuff, stopped the leak in the bottom of my VFR fuel tank for about 18 months before it started to leak again (from a different spot[1]) and I replaced it. Also fixed radiator leaks and all sorts with it.

Druid

[1] It had sat for some years before I got it and the tank had suffered internally, had quite a few problems from that. :(

[Gerry]

Did it work? I'm about to do my '99 curvie but planing on using PP leak stop rather than araldite to seal it.

Yes, worked a treat.

If your PP leak-stop doesn't work and you want a metre of hose (free) give me a shout.

Cheers
Gerry