Met a student tonight

[timwilky]

Well I was out for a few scoops and I ended up talking to a young lady who tells me she is at uni.

Oh were? asks I. Bolton WTF!!!, where did that come from.!! Bolton has a uni??

So what are you doing?. Illustration and animation. Double WTF. We the tax payer are subsidising kids to scribble and play with playdoh.

No don't get me wrong. I don't blame the kid for doing an available course. But I ask you. Why should somebody do a physics or mathematics degree when you can get an degree in animation and illustration.

On the subject of degrees. I was reading on this very forum about a Motorcycle Engineering degree. Sceptical at the sound. I investigated a little deeper. Damm i wish that sort of course was available when I did mine.

I now understand that disciplines have broken into specialism. However, I would have thought that the specialisms should be the meat on basic Mech Eng degrees that makes up your MSc/PHD etc.

[G]

It amazes me some of the rubbish degrees that you can do now days.

Illustrations and Animation isnt the stupidest I have heard of thats for sure.

[Welsh_Wizard]

I guess you wouldn't be calling it stupid when your an Animation Designer/Engineer at Pixar/ Industrial Light & Magic or some other Hollywood studio paying you roughly 30 million dollars an hour.

[falc]

Surely the degree on David Beckham is worse?

The degrees now are alot more specialist and its a good thing if its relevant but unfortunately most degrees aren't really in line with the real world

[Alpinestarhero]

No don't get me wrong. I don't blame the kid for doing an available course. But I ask you. Why should somebody do a physics or mathematics degree when you can get an degree in animation and illustration.



So people have an excuse to go to university, get loans, go out and get drunk, and only have to attend 1 or 2 2-hour lectures per week.

Mind you, I've met a few people on my chemistry course that must think they are on an art or media type course, the amount of lectures they dont attend and the amount of actual work they dont do.

Matt

[timwilky]

Don't get me wrong people. I am sure there is enough content in the aforementioned degree to justify the award. However, I would see that sort of thing as applied skills with sufficient academic content to qualify for the award. However I just don't see this sort of degree as being truly academically rigorous when compared to traditional degrees.

As for specialisation. Are students not in danger of backing themselves into a corner. My specialism was automotive engineering. However, I did that part post graduate and on the job training.

[Mrs Blue Pete]

http://data.bolton.ac.uk/courses/course_display.asp?single=ba_aniill&mode=single&template=university

Didn't even know that Bolton had a university and I live down the road from it.

Or there's this course at the same place:
http://data.bolton.ac.uk/courses/course_display.asp?single=ba_gamesart&mode=single&template=university

Scroll down to 'About the course'...

[Alpinestarhero]

As for specialisation. Are students not in danger of backing themselves into a corner. My specialism was automotive engineering. However, I did that part post graduate and on the job training.

Yes, your correct. If you only learn about one thing, then you are qualified to only comment on that one thing. I can't comment on physics, I know little about it (ok, i know stuff about quantum physics, but only in the context of chemistry). But at least I can comment on a whole lot of chemistry, from materials chemistry through to that bloody homeopathic medicine stuff.

Illustration and animation sound slike you will be limited to...illustrating and animating. Not as if you can use it to go get a job in accountancy, for example

Matt

[neio79]

I think you will find that alot of these uni's nowadays are the old polytechnics and therefore the sh*t end of the scale, and as you can see doing micky mouse (no pun intended) courses .

It does amaze me the ammount of silly degrees you can get nowadays. Pointless doing them . I have met some really stupid officers in the army because they have a degree in hymilayan potttery or something equally worthless.But because of the degree they can be officers.WTF!!!

I am in the signals and it amazes me the ammount of officers with no technical degree, no engeneering or comms degrees. what is the point of being in charge of a group of (in my case) highly skilled systems engineers if you dont even have a scooby what their job is about or how comms work!!

[andywilson460]

I used to work on Hollywood animations (features) and there are 2 clear approaches - claymation/live action (Things happen in the real world) and 3D. The 3D stuff really demands a bloody clever person to get it working properly - all kinds of logic and maths are required to calculate the behaviour of polygons and elements. There is a reason that someone would spend 3 years studying it, as they will then go and work for Framestore, Pixar etc and be a specialist in water or dust or whatever - that's how specialised the marketplace is.

For the last feature I worked on (Chicken Run) we were running business systems to work out per second costs, as Claymation takes so much time to rig/test/shoot that you have to work out how much these things cost for future funding.

I was also lucky enough to work with one of the Heads of Pixar last year - absolutely amazing company - so creative and fun - I don't blame any would-be student for wanting to work for a company like that - just amazing

[Lozzo]

I guess you wouldn't be calling it stupid when your an Animation Designer/Engineer at Pixar/ Industrial Light & Magic or some other Hollywood studio paying you roughly 30 million dollars an hour.

I think Luke Millar (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1515480/) is best qualified to answer this one.

A mate of mine called Porl Perrot (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1657320/) is in a similar position having worked in advertising and now on major films. he's now living and working in Australia and earning big money.

[Alpinestarhero]

And what will i get for helping to discover a brilliant treatment for cancer, HIV, AIDS or something else that kills loadsa people every year?

Not alot.

Still, I get to wear a lab coat and shiny safety specs and look really clever, thats worth alot

[neio79]

And what will i get for helping to discover a brilliant treatment for cancer, HIV, AIDS or something else that kills loadsa people every year?



you could create the next wonder drug for the party generations of today, that will get you far more recognition.

[Jabba]

I guess my degree in "Combined Beekeeping and Mediaeval Plumbing" was never going to set me on the road to fame and fortune.

Oh well........... least I know how to empty a cess-pit using straw and a pitch-fork. Might be useful one day.

[Alpinestarhero]

I guess my degree in "Combined Beekeeping and Mediaeval Plumbing" was never going to set me on the road to fame and fortune.

Oh well........... least I know how to empty a cess-pit using straw and a pitch-fork. Might be useful one day.

Say, jabba...you could be just the guy I'm looking for...you see, my medieval cess pit here at Castle Alpinestarhero is a bit full after a few of us had dodgy curry's...

[lukemillar]

I think Luke Millar (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1515480/) is best qualified to answer this one.

A mate of mine called Porl Perrot (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1657320/) is in a similar position having worked in advertising and now on major films. he's now living and working in Australia and earning big money.

I did a 'yoghurt weaving' degree in Graphic Design (as my ex-boss so daintily put it!) With courses like Illustration, animation, graphics etc. The degree itself is somewhat meaningless - It's more the work that you do and the portfolio of work you walk away with that is the purpose. There are hundreds of different (and quite worthwhile) careers that can stem from these more 'creative' degree's - who for instance do you think designed your GSXR Mr Wilky!? Or came up with the Suzuki logo? etc.

Doing what I do; there are super creative jobs (like an animator) or super techy jobs like some of the programmers and then everything in-between. I kind of sit on fence, but lean towards the more creative side. You would be amazed as to quite how much work goes on in the TV/Film/Advertising industries, that most people probably wouldn't realise. If you watch a film at the cinema or ads during a commercial break - these industries need people to!

Financially, these industries pay pretty well too, though not everyone makes it - I'm not sure about other degree's, but on the Graphic Design course the % of people actually making it in the industry was about 10% of those who started.

As for you mate Lozzo, It looks like works for Animal Logic which is the other big film VFX place in Sydney. I'm chatting to those guys at the moment, so I might bump into him in the near future!

[northwind]

No don't get me wrong. I don't blame the kid for doing an available course. But I ask you. Why should somebody do a physics or mathematics degree when you can get an degree in animation and illustration.


Praps they want to do something related to physics or maths, rather than animation? Not sure why you're so down on this to be honest, it doesn't sound like a joke course to me. Sounds like it's probably a more credable and potentially useful course than most arts degrees. Now, my brother did Electrical Engineering and German :rolleyes: And I did Business Organisation, which means nothing at all. But Animation's a serious skill and one in demand in lots of industries.

[Lozzo]

As for you mate Lozzo, It looks like works for Animal Logic which is the other big film VFX place in Sydney. I'm chatting to those guys at the moment, so I might bump into him in the near future!

He's a loon, meant in the nicest possible way. Say hello from me if you do meet and remind him that we haven't forgotten that bloody rabbit.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Praps they want to do something related to physics or maths, rather than animation? Not sure why you're so down on this to be honest, it doesn't sound like a joke course to me. Sounds like it's probably a more credable and potentially useful course than most arts degrees. Now, my brother did Electrical Engineering and German :rolleyes: And I did Business Organisation, which means nothing at all. But Animation's a serious skill and one in demand in lots of industries.

Degrees aren't necessarily supposed to be 'useful', by which I mean vocational. They are supposed to be academic qualifications.

A degree in plumbing would be very useful, for example, but as there would be very little academic content no creditable university would do a degree in it.

[Girth]

I live about 2 mins from Bolton Uni, yes it is a joke!

[glade]

does the tax payer still fund higher education?

[dizzyblonde]

does the tax payer still fund higher education?
I'm not too sure, all i know is that im Indoors pays for all his fee's as he does it part time, even though this year he has to pay for an extra module as his final project surmounts to 2, WTF he does all the hard work and he has to pay more?? It costs him nearly 2 grand a year to study part time.
If he was a full time student I think fees would be different somehow.

He's always going on about psuedo degrees. He always winds up the interior designers when hes doing work, as his degree requires his brain to be the size of a tefal man. His dad is a retired Physics teacher, and even he struggles to understand half of the mathematics involved.
All I know is I'm fed up on finding books on how to build alternate wind turbines in my bedroom..........:smt015

[Quiff Wichard]

LOl.


Hi Tim

I can imagine the young lady and you had a great conversation and a debate..

I love it mate when you get on your morale horse cos you are so ace at discussing stuff I could listen to you for hours

(when i am bladdered)

xxxx

[charris]

does the tax payer still fund higher education?

I pay just over 3 grand a year to study mechanical and electrical engineering

:(

[glade]

I'm not too sure, all i know is that im Indoors pays for all his fee's as he does it part time, even though this year he has to pay for an extra module as his final project surmounts to 2, WTF he does all the hard work and he has to pay more?? It costs him nearly 2 grand a year to study part time.
If he was a full time student I think fees would be different somehow.

He's always going on about psuedo degrees. He always winds up the interior designers when hes doing work, as his degree requires his brain to be the size of a tefal man. His dad is a retired Physics teacher, and even he struggles to understand half of the mathematics involved.
All I know is I'm fed up on finding books on how to build alternate wind turbines in my bedroom..........:smt015

Foreign students, and those on their second degree have to pay higher fees, but i'm not sure if the goverment make up the difference for UK citizens. Tuition fees are the highest they've ever been. They are double what they were when I left in 2005.

Anyway... qualifications are a grey area, and your subject doesn't limit your career. Your personality and common sense does that.

Someone I know people got a 1st in maths and is on the dole. I know someone who did engineering and two years later is in HR surrounded by women :smt055 (not many women in welsh steel works you know). I know someone who couldn't calculate percentages in year 2, who is now earning 2x any of my group's salaries, trading for one of the big banks.

Sometimes the degree shows you have an aptitude for learning and can apply yourself - the subject isn't always important.

[dizzyblonde]

Unfortunatley when i had the chance of doing a degree, I took a year out and never went back. Its something I've regretted, but I think it just wasn't my time.
I work in the same place as my other half, and did so as a temp for two years. I was there for 3 weeks and they had me supervising 160 peeps, co-ordinating, liasing blah, blah, blah. Never done anything like it before in my life. Its been a great experience and got me in permanent. I got further with my personality and what i could show hands on, rather than how many stripes i have. Theres a hell of a lot of blokes in there that are super qualified on paper, but lack common sense, and too far up theire own ego to get anywhere.
TBH I think I've doen better with huge amounts of life skills than paper qualifications, if that makes any sense

[tigersaw]

Someone on University Challenge was studying 'whippet dynamics'

[timwilky]

Praps they want to do something related to physics or maths, rather than animation? Not sure why you're so down on this to be honest, it doesn't sound like a joke course to me. Sounds like it's probably a more credable and potentially useful course than most arts degrees. Now, my brother did Electrical Engineering and German :rolleyes: And I did Business Organisation, which means nothing at all. But Animation's a serious skill and one in demand in lots of industries.

Andy

I am trying not to "down" on this. However, I am questioning just where degrees such as this are going. I think the guys who write the modern animation software are extremely clever. They have to have excellent maths, physics, modelling knowledge and their work will be far beyond that expected within a degree level project. But is proficiency in using an animation software package anything more than application knowledge.

To me this sounds like the sort of thing an old fashioned HND would be aimed at.

[getyerkneedown]

So people have an excuse to go ...<edited>
get loans, go out and get drunk....<edited>

Matt

You mean people need an excuse to get drunk these days?

[lukemillar]

Andy

I am trying not to "down" on this. However, I am questioning just where degrees such as this are going. I think the guys who write the modern animation software are extremely clever. They have to have excellent maths, physics, modelling knowledge and their work will be far beyond that expected within a degree level project. But is proficiency in using an animation software package anything more than application knowledge.

To me this sounds like the sort of thing an old fashioned HND would be aimed at.

These degree's teach much more than just 'application knowledge'. I wasn't how taught how to use a single piece of software on my course - I learned that off my own back in my own time. My old tutor used to say that any idiot can be taught to move a mouse and use a piece of software - it's what you do with it that counts.

[hovis]

but............... was she fit?

[getyerkneedown]

but............... was she fit?

Hear hear.. that's all that matters.

:p

[timwilky]

As an egg but twice as runny:D


Had the wife with me, so polite conversation only.

[G]

does the tax payer still fund higher education?


Yeah they pay for Wales and Scotland who get University, amongst other things like prescriptions for FREE.

[Luckypants]

Yeah they pay for Wales and Scotland who get University, amongst other things like prescriptions for FREE.

The second word is off, ill-informed person. :smt095

[G]

The second word is off, ill-informed person. :smt095

But the daily mail said it was so.......;):smt100:(

[SoulKiss]

But the daily mail said it was so.......;):smt100:(

Wales and Scotland get about the same per person to spend as England.

They just choose to spend it differently.

[cuffy]

Still, I get to wear a lab coat and shiny safety specs and look really clever, thats worth alot

http://cleverdomain.org/yapc07/Beaker_muppet.jpg

My hero :smt031

[tigersaw]

But the daily mail said it was so.......;):smt100:(

The Welsh do get free pescriptions, and they get a non assessed grant of 1.8K towards their uni tuition fees each year - I asked.
It works out cheaper for me to semi retire to wales and become a uni student, (thus paying no council tax) than to stay where I am with the 2k council tax bill.

[missyburd]

Still, I get to wear a lab coat and shiny safety specs and look really clever, thats worth alot
Definitely the best thing about doing a science degree :smt003


TBH I think I've doen better with huge amounts of life skills than paper qualifications, if that makes any sense

I would prefer to have more life skills and so I do my best at gaining them via 1) jobs and 2) voluntary work where I can get it. Seems to work, but then I have to juggle all that with actually doing the work for my degree which is damn time consuming, there are never enough days in the week! :rolleyes:


On the subject of Wales, a Welsh friend of mine studying Maths is practically paid to come to uni as well as being clever enough to get scholarships and all the rest of it. I don't envy the amount of work he has to do though, maths...:puker:

[Pedrosa]

Timothy Wilky,dont be such a snob.Not everyone can be a Cambridge Blue as your good self sir.;)