Brake fade

[tomjones2]

Hello, I have been getting some brake fade on my track sv. It all starts ok goodish lever pressure and braking but after about 10-15 minutes the brakes are definatley past there best.

Lever travel has increased to the point where I can feel the lever just touching my outside fingers and general performance isnt that good, not scary just not good.

I have got some EBC pads which were used on the road for a fair bit

New dot 4 brake fluid

Standard Disks

Braided lines that are about 3 years old

I recently also clearned the brakes and pads with brake cleaner but it didnt make a difference. The calipers have never been stripped down in the 24k they did on road either.

Any ideas?

[getyerkneedown]

If it were me i'd start with a full brake strip down. Clean each component and them re assemble and try out. Change the fluids as you have done, and stick some new pads on too. If you're racing on the track, how about getting some high friction pads... EBD HH work well.

If that doesnt work, try replacing the braided lines, although i cant see them fading in 3 years of relative low use.

Perhaps some race spec disks too if you have spare change.

In essence, start with a total overhaul before investing in expensive bits.

[PeterM]

As above, tak the clipers off and flush them through, you'll be surprised at the goop that settles there, compromising your breaking.

The lines will be fine and check the thickness of your discs, they should still be in spec. The change of pads would be handy, there are planty of brands out there to try. I like the Performance Friction Brakes, they work very well and are still kind to your discs. Just make sure you bed them incorrectly.

[flymo]

I did a full brake rebuild for the start of this racing season, used new fluid,caliper seals, lines, EBC HH pads and EBC Pro Lite discs. The brakes are totally superb.

You may well have crap in the pad surface that causes fade. If you cant stretch to replacing the pads then at least remove them and give them a really good scrub with hot soapy water before rinsing, drying and putting them back. While the pads are out give the braking surface of the discs a good clean with hot soapy water or even brake cleaner if you can get some. This will remove any grease from the surfaces.

If the calipers are binding or cant move properly then they will heat up more than they should, this is the most likely cause of fade.

[tomjones2]

Brakes are definatley not binding, the bike is a doddle to roll about. If I strip the calipers I should replace the seals right? Is this the only consumable in the caliper? Also is dot 5.1 worth a look? New disks are not an option, new pads might be anyone know anywhere cheap.

How do you bed in pads on a track bike, I dont really want to spend the first 50 miles braking gently.

[flymo]

Brakes are definatley not binding, the bike is a doddle to roll about. If I strip the calipers I should replace the seals right? Is this the only consumable in the caliper? Also is dot 5.1 worth a look? New disks are not an option, new pads might be anyone know anywhere cheap.

How do you bed in pads on a track bike, I dont really want to spend the first 50 miles braking gently.

As you mentioned that the calipers havent ever been stripped and serviced I would be tempted to change seals yes. I did on mine. I'ld also recommend that you use Suzuki original parts for the seals rather than copies.

If this is for racing I wouldnt skimp on front brakes, they are you're best friend ;-), good for keeping you alive and making overtakes! I'ld recommend EBC HH pads. I use www.brakes4u.co.uk

I wouldnt worry too much about the fluid, just go for a well known brand. EBC do some also but there are plenty to choose from.

As far as bedding in, it really doesnt take long, and as you say you dont want to be running them in for 50 miles! All depends on the state of the braking surface on your discs. If the surface isnt flat and has grooves in it then it will take longer for the pads to wear to match that shape. New pads on new discs will bed in much quicker as a result. Just be gentle on the first few laps and then gradually firm up your braking each corner. They should be good to go after 10 mins or so but you will be able to feel how good/bad they are.

[Blue_SV650S]

Having read the blurb, I think it is most likely to be the brake fluid and/or pads.

What brand Dot 4 are you using? And when you put it in how well did you purge the system of the old stuff? Do you know what was in there before?? If you have mixed mineral and synthetic fluid, this could well be causing your problems!!

I use Shell Super Dot 4 fluid and Performance Friction pads and have NEVER had brake fade and i'd like to think I am one of the latest of the late late brakers!! ;)

Finally do you tend to keep a finger on the leaver?? Could you inadvertently be putting a bit of pressure on the leaver all the time?

[getyerkneedown]

It's also worth noting braking technique.

I was taught that if i wasnt braking hard, then i shouldn't be on the brakes at all... just trailing them will cause them to heat up quicker, and cause them to fade far faster than they would normally.

Dont want to teach you to suck eggs, but it's worth checking that you're not gently braking in the moments between rolling off the throttle and going hard on the anchors.

[Blue_SV650S]

it's worth checking that you're not gently braking in the moments between rolling off the throttle and going hard on the anchors.

Bearing in mind that is almost instantaneous, I don't see that as the potential problem. But if the brakes are inadvertently being run all the way down the back straight for example, not only is this generating heat when being done, but taking way the natural cool-off time that would occur at that point!! That is bad :(

It might not be the case, but I thought it was worth mentioning!! :)

[Sharka Zulu]

I partially agree with the braking technique comment.

If you brake slightly softer for longer periods rather than really hard for shorter periods the discs might tend to heat up more quickly.
Hard on the Anchors for short periods late into the braking zone is the way to go.

I might be stating the obvious, but sometimes a conscious effect is required to ensure you not spending to much time on that lever. :D

[tomjones2]

Thanks for all the comment, the braking techinque might apply. I have never had a problem on trackdays before but I have been running quciker than before so poor technique might mean I am dragging the brakes.

I think the problem is with the pads/fluid/disks but I will certainly look at my techique. And give the brakes a good clean if not a strip down.

I am certainly not a late braker but I normally brake hard and then "coast" the last few meters before I turn in, letting myself get settled for the corner. This I know is lasy and something that I will need to fix but I was running within 10 secs of the minitwins record at silverstone national so I dont think I am very slow, just slow.

[flymo]

simplest thing to keep in mind with front braking technique is to remember what the brake is for. If you arent trying to slow the bike down then dont use the front brake. Sounds simple but you'ld be surprised!

How long are these races anyway? I'ld be surprised if you could cause any significant brake fade by poor technique alone in an 8 lap sprint or similar.

[PeterM]

I achieved some pretty good braking with stock discs and pads with a change to braided lines, flush and new fluid. I haven't had anyone out-brake me, I am a late and very hard braker. The dics are blued when I come back in from a race over 6 laps or so.

If I can get that kind of work done with a relatively stock setup then I would be pointing to checking over what you have now to make sure it is all operating correctly as you shouldn't be getting fade.

[johnnyrod]

Could be the master cylinder seals, I had to replace these last year, which sorted a few minor problems, the worst of which was too much travel no matter how much I bled it, and yes it also got worse when you used it. I woudl say something like this, as you have twigged, is the root cause. There are various kinds of brake fade, doesn't sounds like yours is to do with the pads or discs.

For my 2p I use SBS dual carbon pads which rea a bit crap on the road (mostly cold esp. the way I ride) but amazing on the track when they warm up, which is only a few bends. No fade etc.