Legalise drugs or not ... vote

[Dave The Rave]

OK, read the thread about dope. Similar subject maybe a tad more radical but here we go. IMO we should legalise the stuff. All of it (pills, dope, hash, heroin, crack, extasy etc) and now. You should be able to buy it in Tesco, ASDA or any corner shop for that matter. You can buy drugs now if you want to anyway so why not do it this way? IMO there would not be more users than now. Far from it. We would stop the drug dealers getting rich and crime would drop dramatically too (I am sure high % is drug related at the moment so junkies need cach to get their fix). All the money in goverment pocket could pay for adverts and drugs education. Police would have more time to deal with real problems and not chasing drug dealers. This is contra-productive anyway as you lock one up and another one is selling before you take the first one away. I understand that it is a radical step and many would hate it and oppose strongly, but surelly there is a logic in this? Am I right?

Please note I do not agree with drugs taking, but I believe in freedom of action and I honestly believe all country would benefit from this.

[gettin2dizzy]

Please note I do not agree with drugs taking, but I believe in freedom of action and I honestly believe all country would benefit from this.
:notworthy:

[Warthog]

No thats a really dumb idea. If heroin is legal, then a lot of people will get the message that it is ok and take it. Weed might well be fine for a bit, but heroin will totally screw you up very quickly. Not everyone is clever enough to live in the society you envisage.

[Warthog]

To be honest, if cocaine was for sale in Tesco I'd probably try some myself, and I am pretty anti-drugs.

[timwilky]

Codswallop. We have enough problems in this country with those that want to destroy their lives/bodies, without making it easier for them.

Ask anyone who has worked an A&E dept and sees the same faces every week.

[Dave The Rave]

Codswallop. We have enough problems in this country with those that want to destroy their lives/bodies, without making it easier for them.

Ask anyone who has worked an A&E dept and sees the same faces every week.

Tim this is all the point. I worked for Turning Point not that long ago (massive substance missuse org.) People who deal with the drugs everyday think this would actually help. I do not believe for a second that people would start taking it because you can buy it. If you want it now you can. That is all the point. It is "almost" as easy as walking into Tesco to get some, but you finance crime with your dosh instead of diverting the money to fight the real problem. Once a smack head you have a little chance to stop but now every one was, is or will be a drug adict.

[G]

I voted no on the basis that i dont think it would make a blind bit of difference.

Thinking it would sort out crime and the economy is very optmistic, not in this lifetime though.

[Welsh_Wizard]

Drugs aren't that easy to come by..

If people are in the 'scene', then yeah, people will have an easier time getting it but in reality, drugs don't blight every single person's door and most wouldn't have ready access to the product. Most long term addicts are targeted because of their weak nature by unscrupulous dealers and constantly leaned upon because they know they will always say 'yes'

By sticking it on the shelf not only are you making it easy for the people that have easy access but your also introducing a whole new market..(ie: the ones that don't know much about it..)

Stupid idea IMO.

[pencil shavings]

i vote yes

i think it makes short and long term econiomic sence and long term social sence.

It will never happen mind, as people are afraid of change. People fear the fabric of society will erode and there will be hundreds of thousands of druggys rampaging the steets. Really not going to happen. Drugs are everywhere already, just behind closed doors, so if legalised and brought into the open, there would be an APPARENT increase in users.

[pencil shavings]

Drugs aren't that easy to come by most wouldn't have ready access to the product

I have lived in 3 different counties, in about 5 different cities in the UK (yeah ive had a displaced up bringing) and you know what, drugs are everywhere! In the rich areas, in the poor areas, everywhere. If you really want to do drugs, it would only take one or two small conversations to find out who knows about what in any area, I honestly kid you not.

[timwilky]

Tim this is all the point. I worked for Turning Point not that long ago (massive substance missuse org.) People who deal with the drugs everyday think this would actually help. I do not believe for a second that people would start taking it because you can buy it. If you want it now you can. That is all the point. It is "almost" as easy as walking into Tesco to get some, but you finance crime with your dosh instead of diverting the money to fight the real problem. Once a smack head you have a little chance to stop but now every one was, is or will be a drug adict.

I am a father. My son who I am proud of for many things, has for many years been abusing cannabis. Not the stuff of my youth, but skunk. I have seen this make him paranoid, angry, and violent. He commits no crime to feed his need of the stuff, it is cheap and available. However, he comes damm near committing major crime because of it. One day I fear he will.

I am told most teenagers now use the stuff. Giving the message that it is OK to buy and use, is not telling them the full facts. It messes your head. The user cannot see it happening. But their family most certainly can.

Personally I would prefer to return to a time when drugs and their use were not part of everyday life. I would like to see those who deal the stuff put out of business permanently and those who use it treated.

I have seen some of the prisons in the far east filled with addicts. Even though there are death sentences for dealing. Where there is demand, people will sell misery. So the thought is if we can't stop the trade, render the trade obsolete. It won't work. All we will do is help the easily lead and gullible into a lifetime of addiction and misery.

[Dave The Rave]

I am a father. My son who I am proud of for many things, has for many years been abusing cannabis. Not the stuff of my youth, but skunk. I have seen this make him paranoid, angry, and violent. He commits no crime to feed his need of the stuff, it is cheap and available. However, he comes damm near committing major crime because of it. One day I fear he will.

I am told most teenagers now use the stuff. Giving the message that it is OK to buy and use, is not telling them the full facts. It messes your head. The user cannot see it happening. But their family most certainly can.

Personally I would prefer to return to a time when drugs and their use were not part of everyday life. I would like to see those who deal the stuff put out of business permanently and those who use it treated.

I have seen some of the prisons in the far east filled with addicts. Even though there are death sentences for dealing. Where there is demand, people will sell misery. So the thought is if we can't stop the trade, render the trade obsolete. It won't work. All we will do is help the easily lead and gullible into a lifetime of addiction and misery.

Although I see your point Tim I think you do not see the obvious. The reality is that the drugs are part of society these days as lets say cigarets were part of my father's generation. Turning the blind eye and wishing they were not here does not solve anything. Chasing drug dealers does not solve anything either. In fact drugs are everywhere (someone said that already). You want them you get them. Goverment does not have money to deal with the problem effectivelly. Can you imagine what a well financed campain could do to drugs popularity? Plus you could usethe money to keep the potencial users of the streets (keep them busy elsewhere).

Unfortunately it will not happen (someone said that as well). It is too sensitive subject to bring up and no politician will take it on.

[slark01]

i'd rather use the drug pushers as targets for the army!
:smt070:smt103

:smt071 :smt119

As legalising a deffo NO!
Not everyone has access to drugs easily, which means there is less people taking drugs than if everyone had access to them. Which is a true statement and quite blatantly obvious.
Look at alcohol, at one time it was a little harder for kids to get it, now it's easy, which has led to an increase of the number of kids drinking heavily.

[fat_brstd]

its should be legal that is simple. The way in which you implement this is a totally different matter. My personall opinion is that you need to have a national register which all people who wish to take damaging substances must sign up inorder to obtain there drug of choice (This includes tobbaco and alcohol otherwise no one would sign up and the dealers would still have a market). In order to purchase any of these items you have to provide your membership card, which also cuts out on underage purchase of these products.

Drugs would only be availiable from licensed or government owned shops, much like a pharmacy in boots and quality would be controlled which would help prevent overdoses and contamination poisoning. With the registered card system you purchases would be traked, exactly like using your clubcard in tesco, and if you used too much then a visit from a drugs adviser would occur. The fact is that most of these products are so cheep to produce but cost a lot on the street due to the cost of "importing" them means that a hefty amount of tax could be levied against them whilst still making them cheeper than street dealers can supply them for. This tax could then be used to fund the drugs advisers and the people who would work in these establishments as well as towards getting serious addicts onto drug management schemes and providing them with there problem drug free of charge in a safe enviroment which would lead to huge reductions in street crime and petty theft.

I personally can not see any sensible reason why this should not be done. Even the ex head of the mets drugs squad believes legalisation is the way to go ffs.

[pencil shavings]

its should be legal that is simple. The way in which you implement this is a totally different matter. My personall opinion is that you need to have a national register which all people who wish to take damaging substances must sign up inorder to obtain there drug of choice (This includes tobbaco and alcohol otherwise no one would sign up and the dealers would still have a market). In order to purchase any of these items you have to provide your membership card, which also cuts out on underage purchase of these products.

Drugs would only be availiable from licensed or government owned shops, much like a pharmacy in boots and quality would be controlled which would help prevent overdoses and contamination poisoning. With the registered card system you purchases would be traked, exactly like using your clubcard in tesco, and if you used too much then a visit from a drugs adviser would occur. The fact is that most of these products are so cheep to produce but cost a lot on the street due to the cost of "importing" them means that a hefty amount of tax could be levied against them whilst still making them cheeper than street dealers can supply them for. This tax could then be used to fund the drugs advisers and the people who would work in these establishments as well as towards getting serious addicts onto drug management schemes and providing them with there problem drug free of charge in a safe enviroment which would lead to huge reductions in street crime and petty theft.

I personally can not see any sensible reason why this should not be done. Even the ex head of the mets drugs squad believes legalisation is the way to go ffs.

+1

[wtdafk]

Been thinking the above for a long time, shame it will never happen

[slark01]

its should be legal that is simple. The way in which you implement this is a totally different matter. My personall opinion is that you need to have a national register which all people who wish to take damaging substances must sign up inorder to obtain there drug of choice (This includes tobbaco and alcohol otherwise no one would sign up and the dealers would still have a market). In order to purchase any of these items you have to provide your membership card, which also cuts out on underage purchase of these products.

People are already paranoid over ID cards so why would they sign up to take drugs when they can go around the corner to joe bloggs. There are people out there selling prescription drugs illegally which you are only supposed to get from a pharmacy. Your idea would work in some small way but over all would be a failure.

[stewie]

Have you got kids ?

[Gene genie]

typical of a govt. that is struggling to keep control of the law, simple solution legalise the problem. we'll burn in hell.

[timwilky]

Not paranoid about ID cards. I will never have one, But that is a different issue.

Alcohol/tobacco you can legally buy with restriction. the horse has bolted on that. Other drugs should never be legally available for sale.

[fat_brstd]

People are already paranoid over ID cards so why would they sign up to take drugs when they can go around the corner to joe bloggs.

The paranoia would be overcome by the fact that 99% of people would rather sign up and be able to get there booze from the off licence than not and deal with the black market. Thats why you have to apply it to alcohol and tobbaco as well as street drugs otherwise it simply wont work. Mr and Mrs Smith are far more likely to accept it and get on with it rather than start getting into shadey deals inorder to get a bottle of cab sav to go with dinner. Once normal people have them then those on the fringes would join in.

There are people out there selling prescription drugs illegally which you are only supposed to get from a pharmacy. Your idea would work in some small way but over all would be a failure.

The reason people sell perscription drugs illegally is because there are people who are addicted to these drugs and simply cannot get them from doctor. I am willing to bet a substantial amount of money that someone who recreationally takes either vallium or tamazipan (2 of the more common perscription drugs that are abused) would much rather get them direct from the pharmacy than from a street dealler. The simple fact is that they cant just walk into a pharmacy and get them so they have to resort to the black market.

This idea needs to be applied to all drugs accross the board, not just the common street drugs but every thing that people take in order to change there state of mind. Its the only way its going to work and the great thing about it is that its going to pay for itself just by the tax generated.

Thats not even thinking about the money saved in the prison system because we wont be locking people up for possesion of a couple of pills. It will make a huge impact on organised crime as drugs are the biggest profit making sector of the black market. You can buy a kilo of cocaine in peru for less than $100 US dollars, That has a UK street value of between ?40,000 and ?50,000 UK Pounds or $100,000 US dollars. Thats a 1000 times profit margin for moving something from one country to another. Why the government arnt in on this and making money out of it is simply beond me.

[gettin2dizzy]

The people who know the most about drugs are the people who've never experienced them;

just like the most aware people of how dangerous motorcycles are; are the non-riders.

It's amazing how fear can create such authority.

[slark01]

The people who know the most about drugs are the people who've never experienced them;

just like the most aware people of how dangerous motorcycles are; are the non-riders.

It's amazing how fear can create such authority.

yep i agree and as a person who tried most drugs when I was younger I can say it's baaaad.
I was just thinking, if they did make it legal can you imagine when you apply for a job the company checks to see if you use drugs, chances are you will be unemployable, even if it was only once.
Joe bloggs goes to work high as a kite and kills someone with a fork lift, what about the taxi driver who is smoking weed all day long, a doctor performing surgery on you after a motorcycle accident while high on heroin.
Oh ye lets make drugs legal, bloody silly idea!!

[Razor]

No, lock up all the shoplifting, housebreaking junkie scum and execute the dealers.

[pencil shavings]

Joe bloggs goes to work high as a kite and kills someone with a fork lift, what about the taxi driver who is smoking weed all day long, a doctor performing surgery on you after a motorcycle accident while high on heroin.
Oh ye lets make drugs legal, bloody silly idea!!

what are you talking about? people dont work regulary drunk. so why would they do other drugs and go to work? its an ilogical statement, they would lose their jobs in a flash! the world wouldnt end if drugs were legal. not everyone would become a crack head. look at this rationaly. :smt009

[slark01]

No, lock up all the shoplifting, housebreaking junkie scum and execute the dealers.

+1

[21QUEST]

yep i agree and as a person who tried most drugs when I was younger I can say it's baaaad.
I was just thinking, if they did make it legal can you imagine when you apply for a job the company checks to see if you use drugs, chances are you will be unemployable, even if it was only once.
Joe bloggs goes to work high as a kite and kills someone with a fork lift, what about the taxi driver who is smoking weed all day long, a doctor performing surgery on you after a motorcycle accident while high on heroin.
Oh ye lets make drugs legal, bloody silly idea!!

Errr doesn't the same apply to say, alcohol. That something is legal doesn't divorce you of responsibilities.

It'sfair to say being drunk as a fish whilst doing any of the above is the wrong thing to do.(?)
...cos if that is not the case then that makes a good case for banning alcohol. and 'no', that the hrse has bolted is not a god enough excuse ;)


Ben

ps: I don't do drugsby the way....but might buy a 'half' just for the AE08 weekend....better dust down the old black book eh :o :p

[fat_brstd]

yep i agree and as a person who tried most drugs when I was younger I can say it's baaaad.
I was just thinking, if they did make it legal can you imagine when you apply for a job the company checks to see if you use drugs, chances are you will be unemployable, even if it was only once.
Joe bloggs goes to work high as a kite and kills someone with a fork lift, what about the taxi driver who is smoking weed all day long, a doctor performing surgery on you after a motorcycle accident while high on heroin.
Oh ye lets make drugs legal, bloody silly idea!!

You appear to not quite understand the point. Just because alcohol is legal doesnt mean your doctor can show up to work drunk or a taxi driver can be sloshed all day. The point is to reduce crime and reduce the harm that drugs can do to people, not to let everyone get as smashed as they want all day.

Companies already test for drugs fairly routinely, expecially in big american multinationals. I know at my work I am not allowed to employ anyone with a criminal conviction because "its against company policy" so even if all they did was smoke a joint in a park 5 years ago i still cant employ them. If it was legal then I would be able to as these people would not have a criminal record as what they were doing wasnt criminal and one test case would prove this and then you wouldnt be able to descriminate against it.

[gettin2dizzy]

what are you talking about? people dont work regulary drunk. so why would they do other drugs and go to work? its an ilogical statement, they would lose their jobs in a flash! the world wouldnt end if drugs were legal. not everyone would become a crack head. look at this rationaly. :smt009

I thought it was sarcasm at first!

Peoples own inadequacies and fears shouldn't play victim to my freedom.

[Dave The Rave]

yep i agree and as a person who tried most drugs when I was younger I can say it's baaaad.
I was just thinking, if they did make it legal can you imagine when you apply for a job the company checks to see if you use drugs, chances are you will be unemployable, even if it was only once.
Joe bloggs goes to work high as a kite and kills someone with a fork lift, what about the taxi driver who is smoking weed all day long, a doctor performing surgery on you after a motorcycle accident while high on heroin.
Oh ye lets make drugs legal, bloody silly idea!!

Well, you make think that it is a silly idea but many people don't think so. So far it is 50:50 so it surelly cannot be that stupid? Surely you mut be able to see that grugs are everywhere? Don't you know anyone who takes them?

All those Joe Bloggs are already high regardless if they drive trucks, teach children, perform surgery, do your accounts etc. Do not live in believe that if you legalised them people would take TESCO by storm and get high. Same people who take them now would but rest would not.

What we are doing now clearly does not work. Surely you see that. So ho do you deal with it? Pretend it does not exist? Do would we do now (making criminals rich and tapping ourself on the back when we catch a dealer with 100gms of dope)? Only problem is that it is too radical idea for people to accept it.

[slark01]

what are you talking about? people dont work regulary drunk. so why would they do other drugs and go to work? its an ilogical statement, they would lose their jobs in a flash! the world wouldnt end if drugs were legal. not everyone would become a crack head. look at this rationaly. :smt009
Am doing and ive met alot of people who do use drugs while at work, especially weed.
Hell a couple of guys I worked with would smoke weed while using the FLT's, just go outside to pick up some pallets and have a smoke.
could tell you quite a few instances from working at Matalan, greenalls, wincanten etc etc. That is the real world we live in, plenty of stupid people.

[pencil shavings]

I thought it was sarcasm at first!

Peoples own inadequacies and fears shouldn't play victim to my freedom.

+1

this goes so much deeper than drugs, the whole government is designed to institue fear. if there was no fear democracy wouldnt work.

[pencil shavings]

Am doing and ive met alot of people who do use drugs while at work, especially weed.
Hell a couple of guys I worked with would smoke weed while using the FLT's, just go outside to pick up some pallets and have a smoke.
could tell you quite a few instances from working at Matalan, greenalls, wincanten etc etc. That is the real world we live in, plenty of stupid people.

then its surly only a matter of time untill they lose their job.

[gettin2dizzy]

Am doing and ive met alot of people who do use drugs while at work, especially weed.
Hell a couple of guys I worked with would smoke weed while using the FLT's, just go outside to pick up some pallets and have a smoke.
could tell you quite a few instances from working at Matalan, greenalls, wincanten etc etc. That is the real world we live in, plenty of stupid people.
I'm not a believer in driving when stoned (I'm not a believer in doing anything when stoned;)) but...


A major study done by the UK Transport Research Laboratory (http://www.mapinc.org/newscc/v00/n1161/a02.html) in 2000 found that drivers under the influence of cannabis were more cautious and less likely to drive dangerously. The study examined the effects of marijuana use on drivers through four weeks of tests on driving simulators. The study was commissioned specifically to show that marijuana was impairing, and the british government was embarrassed with the study's conclusion that "marijuana users drive more safely under the influence of cannabis."

[Razor]

Am doing and ive met alot of people who do use drugs while at work, especially weed.
Hell a couple of guys I worked with would smoke weed while using the FLT's, just go outside to pick up some pallets and have a smoke.
could tell you quite a few instances from working at Matalan, greenalls, wincanten etc etc. That is the real world we live in, plenty of stupid people.

I agree these things are widespread in the real world.

I would also like to add that I left my previous maintenance job with the NHS due to being jumped by some junkies who were on state sponsored methadone for their addictions.

I have also used recreational drugs in the past, never lost a job, never lost a car, had a great time, but used my own money, didn't rob and steal like people do due the powerful addictive nature of the drugs...

[stewie]

The people who know the most about drugs are the people who've never experienced them;

just like the most aware people of how dangerous motorcycles are; are the non-riders.

It's amazing how fear can create such authority.
So by that logic the users are the most ignorant of what they are doing, nice point, well made .

[gettin2dizzy]

So by that logic the users are the most ignorant of what they are doing, nice point, well made .
It was meant in jest. The people most willing - and apparently; knowledgeable about how dangerous motorcycling is, are the people who have no association with it at all . But they don't need it; they just "know" ;)

Likewise the same applies to drugs; the ones with the strongest opinions against them are the people who 'just know' and don't need any justification or reasoning.



Anyway, I can't be arsed with this one. I didn't start it after all ;)

[stewie]

It was meant in jest. The people most willing - and apparently; knowledgeable about how dangerous motorcycling is, are the people who have no association with it at all . But they don't need it; they just "know" ;)

Likewise the same applies to drugs; the ones with the strongest opinions against them are the people who 'just know' and don't need any justification or reasoning.



Anyway, I can't be arsed with this one. I didn't start it after all ;)

Fair point ;)

[Wayluya]

I am genuinely sorry about your son.

FWIW I am anti drug use (as IMO it's essentially dumb! - but I do not see why the Govt is meant to stop people doing dumb stuff), but am pro-legalisation because I can see that it is in my own and society's best interest - won't happen in my lifetime cos' way too many vested interests in carrying on losing "the War on Drugs".

I have seen some of the prisons in the far east filled with addicts. Even though there are death sentences for dealing. Where there is demand, people will sell misery. So the thought is if we can't stop the trade, render the trade obsolete. It won't work. All we will do is help the easily lead and gullible into a lifetime of addiction and misery.

I too have seen some of the prisons in the Far East and drugs are of course a major reason for their population - as it is over here - but the conclusion I draw is that drugs should be legalised as obviously even with penalties far far harsher than we will ever have (or ever had) of Death Sentences (Legal or Extra Judicial) or long sentences in 3rd world jails where it is not a crime for inmates to end up dead........the trade simply does not stop - in fact this approach merely makes the trade more profitable and more competitive which makes it more violent........and this impacts on everybody.

BTW my late wife's family were from SEA and "back in the day" they probably killed more people than Anthrax......but if it's any comfort to the moral majority, most of them are dead now. Karma? nah, bad luck and bad business decisions. Mostly way before my time. Wish she had written a book.....

[Troy]

I'm a strong believer in personal freedoms... So I'd vote to legalise it, with some restrictions.

Alcohol and nicotine are toxins, both with extremely addictive properties, and cause all kinds of health problems. According to the data collected by the USA's Center for Disease Control, there's approximately 5 million people killed every year (worldwide) by tobacco use. Why is that legal and marijuana isn't? I've never heard of someone getting lung cancer from weed, even some of the total stoner pot-head losers I went to school with!

I'd say run it the same way as the legal "drugs": make the producers abide by government standards, restrict what age you can buy the stuff at, restrict you from operating vehicles while under the influence, and tax the living crap out of it to pay for programs to help people quit.

Wouldn't actually do me any good though... Turns out I've violently allergic to the green stuff!

-Troy

[tomjones2]

My 10p, drugs are getting stronger and more avaiable. Prohibition rarely works on a major scale. Class A should never be leagalised they are to potent but I reckon that legalising weed and some others and bringing them down to a more sensible strengh might be a good way to go. Never going to happen though.

[chakraist]

I'd say legalise certain drugs; that way it's possible to sort of, push people that do take drugs in a certain direction. Also, this way it's easier to get cleaner drugs in circulation. Also, the government would be able to tax it and still sell it cheaper than the dealers. Selling most drugs in pharmacies, supermarkets, anywhere really, I think would eliminate a large percentage of street crime.

[SuperBikeMad]

Drugs aren't that easy to come by..

Dont be to sure on that as iam a smoker of the greens myself and please dont anybody think iam a bad person for doing this! Theres supposed to be a 75% chance that the next time you walk by a stranger on the streets they will have taken or frequently take drugs. And i really beilve that is true.

Quite Scary i know :)

[hovis]

Drugs aren't that easy to come by..

.

yes they are!!

what are you after?;)

[Welsh_Wizard]

Everytime someone quotes my quote, they just prove my point !! You've either admitted your a personal taker or you 'know' someone that can get it for you.

You know people in the scene therefore it is easy for you !!

I currently work in a team of people where at least 40-50% wouldn't have the foggiest idea on how to access illegal drugs. They aren't part of the 'scene', they don't have particularly liberal attitudes and some may say are slightly naive. By legalising and sticking all manner of new exotic concoctions in a pharmacy shop window, not only are you feeding the people already in this mystic scene, your also chucking a curveball to all these naive folk who haven't experienced it.

It sends out the wrong message to impressionable people and would only excarberate a problem that needs to be solved, not side stepped.

Most of the people on here seem intelligent coherant folk with a solid arguments and the ability to put their point across. MILLIONS of folk are not this way inclined and legalising a product which is medically proven to have a whole number of health risks isn't going to do the world any good in my eyes..

As someone said, shoot the ****ing dealers on sight and your problems solved :D :smt102

[Ch00]

Selling them in Tescos wont kill off the dealers. By the time the govenment has finished adding there taxes on to it, a dealer will be cheaper.

I also think Cannabis should go back to a class B drug as people i deal with seem to think its legal now.

Ch00

[SuperBikeMad]

I suppose you have a point Welsh Wizard, but the facts are drugs are only around the corner and cannot be stopped by any goverment in the world. people are blind to the truth. Difficult but true!

Regards

[hovis]

I currently work in a team of people where at least 40-50% wouldn't have the foggiest idea on how to access illegal drugs.
realy? im shocked.

[SoulKiss]

My take on this is that the current Governments attempts to make EVERYTHING illegal have not worked, and have just reduced the liberties of everyone living here.

Maybe the answer IS to relax things, not just with drugs, but to make the penalties for breaking these more lax rules harsher than now.

A government that looked at pricing drugs at a level that made it un-economical for dealers and pushers to operate, while punishing them EXTREMELY harshly if they did try to operate, and then using funds raised (and only raised from narco-taxes) to educate and help people with managing this drug use.

As has been said, its impossible to put the genie back in the box, and from the viewpoint of those that DO take drugs regularly, if there was to be a declaration tomorrow that all drugs were to become Class-A, and all possesion would have the same penalties as if they were dealing, I dont think there would be a huge drop in numbers of those taking.

Why make the country into one of criminals by making everything illegal ?

Just train the pharmacists in our chemists to be able to "prescribe" these drugs, and have the law state that you can carry the prescribed dose (so a copy of the "prescription" to be retained by the customer until after consumption).

Treat anyone with a "hit" of whatever without the paperwork as a dealer (police being able to check that there was a "receipt" from a station - meaning if the receipt was lost, it can be checked up on.

[21QUEST]

Re being easy(or not) to get hold of drugs, welll....I'm sure a few of us haven't got a clue where the wh0re houses iare or indeed who the wh0res are, where they live.

But something tells me, it's safe to say, if one really wanted to know, it ain't going need emplying a PI. :rolleyes: :lol:


Ben

[gettin2dizzy]

Most of the people on here seem intelligent coherant folk
:lol:
comedy thread only please!
:lol:

[gettin2dizzy]

I like the way they relaxed the home made fuel laws; that you could make your own but don't take the ****. How about that with grass? Like 4 plants for personal use :)

[ThEGr33k]

People on drugs should be mind washed into becoming human slaves and dealers and thier entire living family have their hands removed, or the family can choose to have the person put down. Should solve the problem imo. :D

[Lozzo]

You know people in the scene therefore it is easy for you !!


What is this "scene" you talk about. Drug users aren't all hoodies on street corners - they are solicitors, coppers, doctors and people from every walk of life. If you want drugs, a couple of short conversations anywhere in the UK will put you in touch with someone who can supply them. I despise drugs by the way, but through previously working with "troubled and challenging teenagers" (drug abusing, theving scrotes) I am well aware of just how easy it is to get hold of them.

[SuperBikeMad]

What is this "scene" you talk about. Drug users aren't all hoodies on street corners - they are solicitors, coppers, doctors and people from every walk of life.

I couldnt have put it better myself. :) People who are against drugs just see the particular drug and it effects most of the time its bad effects. People need to realise like you say Lozzo its not just your typical hoodie on the corner its people from every walks of life.

It makes you think though i wonder if the people who run goverments and politicians actually participate in Drug Taking!

Best Regards Scott

[hovis]

People on drugs should be mind washed into becoming human slaves and dealers and thier entire living family have their hands removed, or the family can choose to have the person put down. Should solve the problem imo. :D
which problem would that solve?
Drug users aren't all hoodies on street corners - they are solicitors, coppers, doctors and people from every walk of life..well put

[philbut]

Not gonna get into this one as I have pretty biased views on the subject. I just dislike the fact that many people seem unable to distinguish between an addict who allows drugs to rule their lives and someone who chooses to enjoy a certain substance. Those of you who drink or smoke do not all go out and binge drink every day / smoke 100 a day??? Well then, why assume that people who use drugs do. If someone is a big enough looser to get hooked on something then they will, whether that be legal or illegal, the cost to society in general is the same. By outlawing certain substances you are merely restricting the cival liberty of everyone, under the guise that you are protecting people from themselves - not everyone is weak minded. If you are going to outlaw one drug then outlaw the lot. The UK would be socially far better off in a way without drink or tobacco wouldn't it? hmmmmm

[ThEGr33k]

which problem would that solve?
well put

Drugs as a whole.... :rolleyes: But mostly drug related crime.

[ASM-Forever]

Not gonna get into this one as I have pretty biased views on the subject. I just dislike the fact that many people seem unable to distinguish between an addict who allows drugs to rule their lives and someone who chooses to enjoy a certain substance. Those of you who drink or smoke do not all go out and binge drink every day / smoke 100 a day??? Well then, why assume that people who use drugs do. If someone is a big enough looser to get hooked on something then they will, whether that be legal or illegal, the cost to society in general is the same. By outlawing certain substances you are merely restricting the cival liberty of everyone, under the guise that you are protecting people from themselves - not everyone is weak minded. If you are going to outlaw one drug then outlaw the lot. The UK would be socially far better off in a way without drink or tobacco wouldn't it? hmmmmm

Phil is the resident TVSF crack head, so he knows his onions. :p ;)

[philbut]

Phil is the resident TVSF crack head, so he knows his onions. :p ;)

I'll drop that gram off later mark ;-) hehe

Disclaimer - mark does not really do drugs, I just spike his drinks :smt077

[Daimo]

Some funny assed ignorent views in this thread :lol:

Legalise drugs, hard thing. As said, you get your brain dead types who no matter what the drug, be it soft, or hard, will rob, steal etc to get the funds to pay for it.

Legalising it won't stop this, but then will stopping something ever stop this from happeneing? Theft, muggings etc have happened throughout history, there will always be a reason, drugs is just one of those. Will an expensive sports car be stolen to fund someones pot habbit?????

Its a hard thing to cover, i'd like soft drugs legalised as they are soft, and cause less deaths than legal drugs such as tobacco and alchole per year. But then you'll still get the idiots.

With regards to people who take them, surley if they want to screw up their lives its THEIR choice, and not some toffs sitting in a fancy boredroom (parliment) deciding what they can or cannot do..... If they want to die, let them die. We should have private medical insurance if your employed like in america. Those dossers without jobs, well sod them, if they want to drug their way to their death, let them.

But what about those that take them just for enjoyment that lead an active healty life bar relaxing or enhancing their weekends enjoyment??

Or maybe we should be politically correct and a nanny state throughout life, no speeding sir, no drugs sir, no beer at the weekend sir, no flying sir, no walking outside sir...

All could kill you, but the choice is not there.........

So should drugs be legalised?

Soft, yes
Hard, no

But I still say let the people make the choice, its our lives......

[tomjones2]

People on drugs should be mind washed into becoming human slaves and dealers and thier entire living family have their hands removed, or the family can choose to have the person put down. Should solve the problem imo. :D

Obviously as a motorcyclist I bet you have never broken the law. There are a number of people who say we should be jailed for going over 100mph, and think that we are all a menace to society.

I'm not saying drugs are big of clever but knocking over grannies for smack and smoking a bit of herb are not the same thing.

[Wayluya]

With regards to people who take them, surley if they want to screw up their lives its THEIR choice, ............. If they want to die, let them die.

Yeah, everyone has free will - and this includes being able to make dumb decisions. Darwin in action. Life is not fair.

My Vote for soft drugs legal and available from restricted outlets (Cafe's?!)

I would not want Heroin for sale in Tescos (but 1 hit get 1 free?!) - but certainly available for free on prescription for registered addicts.

Crack, Coke and Chemicals are a bit trickier to hand out on prescription........kinda takes the "fun" / point away?

Would free up loads of Prison Space and money accross the entire legal system - which would be better used putting folk who commit crimes into jail for longggggg sentences, which in itself saves time and money wasted in catching and processing repeat offenders. I have nothing against prison trying to reform folk, but best place for criminals (for the law abiding) is in jail.........but that's another thread.

[Dave The Rave]

Everytime someone quotes my quote, they just prove my point !! You've either admitted your a personal taker or you 'know' someone that can get it for you.

You know people in the scene therefore it is easy for you !!

I currently work in a team of people where at least 40-50% wouldn't have the foggiest idea on how to access illegal drugs. They aren't part of the 'scene', they don't have particularly liberal attitudes and some may say are slightly naive. By legalising and sticking all manner of new exotic concoctions in a pharmacy shop window, not only are you feeding the people already in this mystic scene, your also chucking a curveball to all these naive folk who haven't experienced it.

It sends out the wrong message to impressionable people and would only excarberate a problem that needs to be solved, not side stepped.

Most of the people on here seem intelligent coherant folk with a solid arguments and the ability to put their point across. MILLIONS of folk are not this way inclined and legalising a product which is medically proven to have a whole number of health risks isn't going to do the world any good in my eyes..

As someone said, shoot the ****ing dealers on sight and your problems solved :D :smt102

That is exactly my point. Your friends would note buy drugs even if they were 50p kilo of crack. But people who use them would.

Why do we have to hear it from the state ... drug are bad = ban them. Speeding is bad = ban it. What next? Will they lock me up for having a double burger 2x a week cause it kills me?

I am wise enough ( I hope) to make my own decisions and face the consequences. As someone said who is it that decides that tabacco is ok, alcohol too, but weed is not or heroin is not. Why do we need others to tell us what to do?

[Ch00]

Why do we need others to tell us what to do?

Is that not the role of a govenment we elected to make choices for us?

If we dont like the choices they make then we use our vote when we have the option. Failing that you enter the arena and put yourself forward.

These legal drugs would have to be paid for somehow no doubt by the working folk who pay for everything else. It will also not stop criminal drug users from commiting crime in order to fund their lifestyles.


Ch00

[philbut]

These legal drugs would have to be paid for somehow no doubt by the working folk who pay for everything else. It will also not stop criminal drug users from commiting crime in order to fund their lifestyles.


Ch00

That is true. I think there is some merit however in the argument that by not forcing the user to buy from a dealer, you are decriminalising them, thus the step to theft and other crime is a bigger one. Some will make it sure, but without the contact with other criminals (ie dealers) those who are not such heavy users might think twice about crossing the boundary to crime - after all, I doubt many drug users actually WANT to be criminals. Once they have been criminalised however, they have little to loose by commiting other offences. Its a really complex issue, but i don't think the simple argument that people commit crime to fund their habbit legitimises outlawing a substance. People commit crime to fund many legal persuits as well!

The link between lower class drug use and moving to hard drugs is used as an argument to ban weed and other lighter drugs. Surely then the reverse is true, legalise the lighter drugs to prevent social users coming into contact with dealers of harder substances?

Tis a very interesting debate, and not one that I think has a correct answer.

[Mrs Dave The Rave]

Yes-soft only!!!!
Fortunately, the ‘drug scene’ has had no impact on my life as I have never been in the company of anyone who takes any kind of recreational drugs. I do feel, however, that drugs are becoming an increasing problem. Why do you think this is? Could more be done by the Government to warn people of the consequences of different types of drugs? Not only do I have to think about the appropriate time to teach my innocent little daughter about the facts of life but I also need to warn her about drugs and the misuse of them – this is a huge problem in schools now and not just secondary – yes, they are in primary schools!
:cry:

[ASM-Forever]

Yes-soft only!!!!
Fortunately, the ‘drug scene’ has had no impact on my life as I have never been in the company of anyone who takes any kind of recreational drugs. I do feel, however, that drugs are becoming an increasing problem. Why do you think this is? Could more be done by the Government to warn people of the consequences of different types of drugs? Not only do I have to think about the appropriate time to teach my innocent little daughter about the facts of life but I also need to warn her about drugs and the misuse of them – this is a huge problem in schools now and not just secondary – yes, they are in primary schools!
:cry:

Are you sure? Your husband seems quite clued up. :p

[Mrs Dave The Rave]

Yes!

[ukrobuk]

I hate all drugs (apart from medical), due to the fact i'v lost 2 friends to them, 1 from an overdose and 1 from, well he couldn't get off the stuff (started on weed) and gave up so guess what he did. I get bitter about it. Turns you into a zombie anyway.
Weed can be bad if you have a bad past, it can do nasty things to your mind untill 1 day it goes pop.

[Welsh_Wizard]

What is this "scene" you talk about. Drug users aren't all hoodies on street corners - they are solicitors, coppers, doctors and people from every walk of life. If you want drugs, a couple of short conversations anywhere in the UK will put you in touch with someone who can supply them. I despise drugs by the way, but through previously working with "troubled and challenging teenagers" (drug abusing, theving scrotes) I am well aware of just how easy it is to get hold of them.

The 'scene' I talk about is a mind set not a demograph.

People, completely regardless of their profession, either seek out that style of life or have the predisposition to 'try' something not normally accepted by the masses.

I understand and accept most of the points people are putting across because I've got my t-shirt as such and have no problems with others doing it.

My point for the entire is simple : The OP said 'legalise drugs or not'.

Its a simple question and I gave my simplist answer. No.

I've come to the answer because I believe, know, met and observed people completely powerless to resist the urges of potent drugs and have been swept away by it all. Allowing the legalisation and ultimately the 'over the counter' sale of these drugs will not only play into the hands of these people, it will also INTRODUCE new people to the product who otherwise wouldn't be associated with it.

You all talk about having 1 or 2 conversations and then suddenly you've scored which I AM NOT disbelieving or questionning you on - I know this is the case! BUT, my point is this, YOU can have 1 or 2 conversations because you know people of this mindset, not everyone does.

[fat_brstd]

You all talk about having 1 or 2 conversations and then suddenly you've scored which I AM NOT disbelieving or questionning you on - I know this is the case! BUT, my point is this, YOU can have 1 or 2 conversations because you know people of this mindset, not everyone does.

My cousin has MS. About 6 years ago when all the hype about weed helping was just starting to get mainstream recognition she decided that she wanted to try it. She had never taken drugs, never assosiated with anyone who did and simply had no idea what to do. She went to her local pub which she had never been in before, spoke to the barman and chatted with a couple of people and within 1 hour she had managed to get some. She even got the guy to roll her a joint as she couldnt do it as she wasnt even a smoker.

Had she come and asked me i would have done it for her but she didnt know that i smoked so went out on her own to try and get something that was supposed to be hard to find. She was about 35 at the time and a perfectly normal law abbiding citizen who would only drink at birthdays and christmas and yet with barely any effort she managed to get hold of some. She still tell this story to this day as she simply couldnt believe how easy it was to get hold of and insidently it made her feel "weird and it didnt really help" and she has never tried again.

[chakraist]

Selling them in Tescos wont kill off the dealers. By the time the govenment has finished adding there taxes on to it, a dealer will be cheaper.


Nah mate, think about it, unless you're getting it straight off the boat, you're paying what, 5 times more for it than the person who does it get it first off is paying.

You seen the film blow? Whereby setting up plane runs and dealing direct means they get more money? Selling drugs in Tesco would be like that. Every little helps!

[Wayluya]

At the moment the position with illegal hard drugs (especially Heroin) in the UK is like the Alcohol position in places like India and Russia - where due to laws and cost hard spirits are often enuf homemade / counterfited by Criminals with crap ingrediants / dodgy methods.....and people simply die or go blind from drinking the stuff. Simply doesn't happen on the same scale in the UK.

This is not big bizness in the UK cos' the legal (and safe) hard spirits are cheap and available - even if dodgy spirits were freely available in the UK, most folk (apart from perhaps some of the Hardcore Alky street dwellers) would never knowingly risk drinking it when a safe and cheap enough alternative is available.

Although I am not a Heroin Addict - have met folk who were and as they could afford their drugs were not "criminals" and could actually function normally and also work in well paid jobs - the fact they always knew they were "sorted" helped enormously to function.

If I had the choice between Quality Controlled Heroin (from Tesco or not!) at an affordable price OR Illegal Heroin that could (will?!) also contain absolutely anything, will be of an unknown strength AND has a good chance of having previously been up someones' backside :cyclopsani:.......I would go for Tesco.......even if the illegal stuff was a bit cheaper.

Bad drugs kill way more people than "drugs".

[chakraist]

Amen to that.

[WestleyTDPR]

People die riding motorbikes, but we still ride. We choose to do something that we know can prove fatal because we enjoy it. Some irresposible people take to many risks and kill themselves and others through sheer stupidity, yet we spend our lifes defending our right to continue to do the thing we love. We try to help educate people in bike safety, and encourage them to be responsible.

If you replace riding bikes with taking drugs does this suddenly stop making sense?

If you aren't willing to stand up and defend the freedom of others, don't expect them to stand up for you, all freedoms come with a price, and i for one don't want to live in a world without choice.

I accept that years of brain washing by our govenrments, and others who would prefer us to remain little slavish automatons, means that many people have never really taken the time to think about drug rights. Opinions are biased by the media's reports of crime and death as we never get a positive drugs story on the news (but maybe one day - G8 refer relaxes sphinchters of world powers and encourages them to feed the world). Or people have worked with/known someone with drug abuse issues and formed an opinion without seeing the other side, which is both easily done and understandable, but these are personal reflections and should not be used as an excuse to deprive others.

We all hold some minority opinions, protect that right.

[Bear]

I vote yes because I believe in personal choice. Having tried mast things at least once and moved on, I can honestly say I think it was a useful experience for me. I understand the people who are saying some people will abuse, but we cannot as a society base our decisions on protecting those who can't think for themselves. Otherwise we have to get into censoring all kinds of art, culture and music because it may offend someone or cause them to do something stupid.