SV front end upgrade?

[carsounds_dan]

Hi,
I've been looking at getting rid of the ZXR400 for a newer shape SV650S, I'll be using the bike all year round, and from what I've heard the front forks arent exactly top notch and in winter can suffer. What front end upgrades are available and what for of work is involved? I've completely rebuilt the zxr's engine so no problems with spanners etc. Also I'd be looking for a full system for the SV to unleash that V-Twin sound what systems are the best?
Cheers
Dan

[Red Herring]

Hi Dan,
There are loads of threads on here covering this subject. The most recent one, "I've got the front end bug" covers most things so probably worth a good read.
The SV is a cracking bike, with budget suspension. It's the most effective thing to upgrade and there are plenty of options depending on budget. Good luck.

[Dangerous Dave]

Link (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=103758) to the thread mentioned above. As for full systems it depends what you are after, if you are planning on tuning the SV engine seriously then an M4 system is the one to go for. if you are thinking of keeping it standard or just minor tuning (cams, filter, PC) then LeoVince, Arrow, Yoshimura, Akrapovic, Hindle, etc are the ones to go for!

[Big Chris]

Shall have to read that one iself Dave. I'm just after stopping it flopping round like a stranded herring! Need some spacers I think.

[flymo]

dont forget the gold valve conversion of the stock forks. pretty easy with superb results, well up to the job with racing so certainly ok for the road.

On the full system, M4 or Hindle full systems both equal in my view, Hindle cheaper by £100 though.

[carsounds_dan]

what sort of money would it cost for a full system then?
I'll probably end up fitting my own aftermarket ECU so a power comander isnt really nesecary(sp).
What sort of money does the gold valve kit thingy cost?
cheers
dan

[Alpinestarhero]

A potentially cheaper way to make the front end better is to upgrade it with Ohlins springs and heavier fork oil (spring kit is about £70, dunno about fork oil). You can also put in racetech damping emulators. In this respect, you upgrade the forks without having to completly change the front end, which itself has alot of other things to sort (its not a simple swap!). You retain the factory looks of the SV (which i think is a good thing).

Winter corrosion can be kept at bay by washing the bike once a week with hot soapy water; if its been raining, or you have ridden alot during the day, and the bike is covered in crude, then at least give it a thorough rinse down with the hose before putting it to bed at night :) I've followed this simple cleaning regeime, and my bike looks pretty good still, only bad bolts are the exhaust downpipe bolts..

Matt

[flymo]

what sort of money would it cost for a full system then?
I'll probably end up fitting my own aftermarket ECU so a power comander isnt really nesecary(sp).
What sort of money does the gold valve kit thingy cost?
cheers
dan

Hindle full system with Alluminium can - ?430 http://www.twinshack.co.uk/prods/278.html

Gold valves - approx ?120, new fluid - ?20 or so, replacement springs (not essential but worth it - ?80). You could likely replace forks for about the same but the gold valve setup will perform extremely well.

[northwind]

Leo Vince seem to outperform the M4, much stronger in the mids from the runs I've seen. Expensive, though. But unless you plan to tune it further I'd say get a slip-on, full systems mess with the fuelling for not an awful lot of benefit, slipons are cheaper and simpler.

As for protection... There's a few wonder-substances to help, I use an aircraft product called ACF50 which is expensive but very effective, it protects well but more importantly it lasts for ages- I basically clean my bike 2 or three times all winter but it's in better shape than most that get washed daily. Scottoiler FS365 or even WD40 or engine oil, among others, also does a good job but ACF50 stays on for ages. I'd sooner have a manky bike with this stuff on than a clean bike in winter- if you wash it but don't protect it as soon as it turns a wheel it's under attack again.

Mind you, mine's hardly mint but that's from actual neglect not inevitability :roll:

[Dangerous Dave]

+ 1 on the ACF-50, it is great stuff.

[yorkie_chris]

Yup I use it too, it's ace.

[carsounds_dan]

right so if I want to do the front forks I'm guessing I'll need the yokes, forks, calipers, discs and wheel off of a suitable bike.. what would that bike be? the speedo isn't something I'm worried about as I have a waterproof GPS system with a very reliable speedo.
cheers
dan

[dirtydog]

Which front end will really depend on which SV you've got (pointy or curvey) and how deep your pockets are

[Dangerous Dave]

for a newer shape SV650S
GSXR600 K1-K5
GSXR750 K1-K5
GSXR1000 K1-K4

[dirtydog]

Ah i didn't see the "for a newer shape SV650s"

[carsounds_dan]

to be honest it's either newer shape standard or go for an older one and modify it..
so for a curvy what do you recon? also will the FI off the newer models fit the old ones?
cheers
dan

[dirtydog]

If it's for a curvey SRAD front end goes quite well, but you will need a different top steering bearing. You could fit the FI to the curvey but i think you'll have to change the whole wiring loom

[northwind]

The FI's got no big advantages either, other than avoiding carb icing. FI is better than carbs but SV carbs are pretty good and SV FI is pretty average so it balances out I reckon. Certainly not worth the hassle to swap over.

I think you're on the right track though, mine has now cost me a fair bit more than a new one would but when I finished the big changes- GSXR front, Ohlins rear, exhaust and cams- it still owed me less than a brand new one. Modifying a cheap bike's a bit of a mug's game but less so than buying a totally new SV in my opinion :mrgreen:

[carsounds_dan]

what differences are there engine wise between the FI and carbed bikes? obviously the internals will be the same but what about the sensors? does the original carbed model have the provision for the sensors?
Also does anyone knwo the spec of the bearing needed and if anywhere sells them on the net?
cheers
dan

[yorkie_chris]

twinworksfactory sells the bearing to put SRAD bits on the curvy

Putting FI onto a curvy is more trouble than it's worth, you'll have a fortune in the parts to do it with and it's complicated. Expect a lot of messing around to get the thing to work right. Also AFAIK the ECU is attatched by more than simple stuff to the clocks, so you'd have to use those too.

The engine internals are pretty much interchangeabile AFAIK, just a few sensors to swap over as well as the inlet rubbers.

[carsounds_dan]

I havent got a problem with fitting the FI as I do Fi tuning for cars. I've got a Microsquirt tunable aftermarket ECU and getting hold of the throttle bodies and sensors off a SV650 wouldnt be a problem.. it's just if the original engine has provisions and what difference is there in crank wheels between the two?
cheers
dan

[yorkie_chris]

Whats the point though, the carbs work fine

[Dangerous Dave]

the ECU is attatched by more than simple stuff to the clocks, so you'd have to use those too.
This is true, you will have to use the Pointy clocks with the FI.

Whats the point though, the carbs work fine
+ 1, there is no problem with the Curvy carbs just idiots that don't know how to treat carb icing!

[yorkie_chris]

Then again, if using microsquirt, maybe you wouldn't need the ECU, I have no idea how that system works.

[carsounds_dan]

thing is with the FI I can run stuff like quickshifter etc as standard with the microsquirt and I can adjust the fueling on the fly by myself at home instead of re-jetting the carbs at a cost each time.
A dynojet kit costs about ?100 and the labour to fit and tune.
The microsquirt costs ?220 delivered, I can fit it by chopping up a spare loom which costs ?20. The fuel injectors and the throttle bodies and all sensors can be had for similar money as the carbs are worth. I also have a spare ZXR400 engine that will pay for all this work plus it allows me time to tinker.
Cheers
Dan

[yorkie_chris]

Hmmmm. I'm tempted now. Could be a easier than fitting flatsides and pod filters if a suitable set of Tb's could be found....

Can it handle the ignition too?


The carbs still work fine though, and I like carbs, if I did this it would be just for the laugh.

[Dangerous Dave]

The clocks are an integral part, I have no idea what it is that they do but they are responsible for something. This is why Pointy race bikes run with OEM clocks. The first thing to do is figure out what the role of the clocks is, then you can find/fit something to take there place if the Pointy clocks is something you do not want.

[carsounds_dan]

well megasquirt can adjust to your sensors and runs itself off that, it sends a tacho-output for your rev counter and has LED outputs for thigns like warm up (autochoke) and other functions.
Cheers
dan

[Dangerous Dave]

well megasquirt can adjust to your sensors and runs itself off that, it sends a tacho-output for your rev counter and has LED outputs for thigns like warm up (autochoke) and other functions.
Cheers
dan
Sounds like it might do the trick then, worth a try if you are into it. Personally I don't see the appeal, there are no bad points to having a carbed SV.

[carsounds_dan]

right suspension!
I've been offered a GSXR K7 front end complete including clip ons. I seem to remember it being off a 750 for £550, but I can chip him to £500. Will they fit onto a Curvy SV without many problems? if not what problems will I have?
Those of you who are in the streetfighter scene may know of TES Performance in East Grinstead and they said that they could make me yokes if needed, obviously at a cost though.
Any advice would be greatly appriciated.
Cheers
Dan

[northwind]

That'll be a wee bit more complicated than it has to be- you can save a packet by using SRAD 750 yokes, which you can then fit forks up to K5 without substantial mods, it keeps the lock stops and parking lock (well, with a little fettling). That brings you up to very modern forks with excellent performance, the new ones have seperated high and low damping though which I have to admit would be nice :cool:

[carsounds_dan]

so would the K7 front end not do?
yolk wise I was thinking of using the K7 yolks with the SRAD spindle pressed in.
would this work or just not worth bothering with?
cheers

[Robw#70]

if its going in to a carby then the lockstops and steering lock wont work, if you go to srad yokes with radial legs then the calipers will be 4mm further in which can be an issue with new pads and 6mm thousand discs and also the spindles are different on the K5> gsxr so depending on wheel choice what you need will change, again the disc mounting changed on K5> wheels and the discs went to 310mm, disc size will again dictate what calipers you can and cant use.

As for the stem, the main thing you need is a 47x30x15 top bearing, either buy one from the states or get a 48x30x13 ground to 47mm od (works out about the same price)

On a curvy the easiest is a srad front end complete, then you get lockstops and steering lock,wheels are cheaper as are discs as they are not current stuff that people are still racing.

[zadar]

[quote=carsounds_dan;1465392]so would the K7 front end not do?
yolk wise I was thinking of using the K7 yolks with the SRAD spindle pressed in.
quote]
why change spindle?first it would not change anything other than top nut size and second srad spindle is to small for 07 upper triple.you would need bushing made.

[northwind]

I believe K6 is when the spindle hole sizes changed rather than K5 btw- K4/K5 750 have the equally sized spindle holes (32mm?) and so will hold an SRAD axle. For K6 it shrank on one side.

I always say to use the SRAD yokes and spindle, it has 3 advantages- lockstops, ignition lock, and the third is the wheel. SRAD wheels are fairly easy to find (as they're the same as Busa and TL wheels, and the SRADs are old and out of fashion) but also they're the exact same shape and colour as the SV ones, so cosmetically they're the best possible result. Not a huge consideration for some of course! But I hate mismatches, it always looks ridiculous, I even resent it with my dymag :smt013

My current setup is... Complicated. But another which works is SRAD yokes, wheel and axle, K4-K5 GSXR750 forks and mudguard. I ran this with 320mm GSXR discs and GSXR thou (K5? K6?) calipers and it all lined up and bolted together perfectly, though it was tight- I can see Rob could be on the money with new pads and discs, but mine were thinner so there was sufficient safe clearance.

Have to say I didn't actually like the brake setup, it was overpowered with my Brembo radial and quite abrupt, nice for a fast ride or trackday but not so nice when commuting in the snow! If I'd stayed with that basic setup I'd have switched to 310mm discs or perhaps even 300mm.

Meandering, sorry! Basically my point is that there's loads of stuff that can be made to work, some better than others, but SRAD is the simplest. You can keep the benefits of the SRAD yokes and throw in flashier forks and calipers if you choose, but that gets more and more complicated as time passes.

[carsounds_dan]

ok so I'll get some SRAD yolks with spindle or without?
And then try and get hold of a wheel and some other bits aswell.
cheers
dan

[carsounds_dan]

I quite fancy the newer GSXR forks with radials, the forks are better built and the extra braking power would be nice

[northwind]

Yeah, that's doable. K3-K4 GSXR thou or K4-K5 GSXR750. Maybe K4-k5 600 too? Not sure. You might come across disc/pad/caliper clearance issues though as Rob mentioned, I didn't but like I say it was tight as. The solution if that happens is just to space the discs out marginally though, not the end of the world.

[carsounds_dan]

could I not get away with forks, wheel, mudguard, discs, calipers and pads off of a K3-4 and then use the yolks off of a SRAD?
Cheers
Dan

[northwind]

Dunno really. I think not, the wheel's narrower I think and the SRAD wheel is just barely wide enough to get the discs in the right tracks. It could be made to work but you might need to space the discs out a fair bit.

[sv_rider1990]

Anyone got any pics of the Gold Valve Kit or anyone done one i could be interested in it.