Choose me a hatchback

[rob13]

I want to sell the MX5 and get myself a hatchback.

Requirements
1.4-1.6 engine, Sunroof, mileage under 3 figures, under ?3k.

Choices
Pre wedge Civic
Ford Focus Mk1
Peugeot 306
Peugeot 307
Volks Golf
Audi A3

Ive driven a Focus regularly and while the engines are pretty good, the seats are bloody awful. No support in them and looking at those for sale, they all seem to be the same.

I have discounted Fiats & Alfas because theyre renowned for big bills. Same goes for Rover/MG really as the Head Gasket problem is always looming.

Anyone with first hand experience of the above for a daily runabout? Im probably only going to be doing around 5k a year with the occasional long run camping or whatever. Trying to keep the costs down so that I can spend the cash on more bikes/new bikes :D

[600+]

Seat?
Skoda?

[G]

306 will be terrible with that little engine, you could try a 106 Gti or Rallye though....amazing fun and pretty damn quick aswell

[flibble]

My last 2 cars have been Peugeot 306s. Both N reg, but the new xsi is much more fun to ride.. that sort of says it all :)
The older cars probably have more boot space and it suits me as have transported washing machines and even easily get 4 bicycles sitting vertically upright in the back/boot with wheels off.

If I had more money I'd have gone for the A3 (next car) and I think prices will drop soon when the new shape comes out.

You're right about the Alfas, my friend trying to sell her's soon as it's been no end of headaches recently.

[JamesMio]

As a particularly shameless plug, my sister's selling her 1.4 Honda Civic Sport (pre-wedge shaped)... V Reg, nothing wrong with it but she's just moved to Australia!

[Dan]

I have discounted Fiats & Alfas because theyre renowned for big bills. Same goes for Rover/MG really as the Head Gasket problem is always looming.

Rovers/MGs post 2001 don't suffer any HG problems. It's a complete myth that it's a fault of the engine design, the K series is actually a stunningly simple concept, brilliantly executed but let down for a number of years by a cost-cutting measure introduced not by Rover but by the engine-building sub-company. A simple matter of plastic head locating dowels causes 99.9% of all the HG failures as the plastic weakens and allows the head to move.

Because of the all-alloy design of the motor and the way it's put together with very long bolts holding the entire engine together, the head on a K series is, relatively speaking, quite loose when the engine's cold.

A 2002 onwards vehicle would have the K series with metal dowels fitted, which don't suffer from the problem - problems on these engines normally result from ill-informed owners have the HG done 'just in case' normally by a non-main dealer who doesn't fully understand the complexities of the K series - quite often this work results in a less reliable engine.

Anyway, that's the boring information bit over.

Just don't buy a Renault. Personally I'd stay away from the Peugeots as well, but that's just because I know of a company who ran a fleet of 307s and they were only marginally better than the Renaults my work ran, which cost us a quarter of a million quid in downtime in six months.

I'd also suggest looking at the Nissan Almera - dirt cheap to buy and run because it's dull as ditchwater, but a very well put together reliable motor if you don't want a babe-magnet.

Also consider Skoda Fabia or Octavia. Octy represents cracking value in this sector (unless you're a badge snob in which case you won't even consider it). and for 3 grand you can pick up plenty of them, which will be well specced and reliable. I know of a taxi firm in Newcastle who ran one of the Mk 1 top spec vRS models with the 1.8T VW/Audi group engine which covered 330,000 miles in two years with nothing more than routine servicing.

[the_lone_wolf]

Ford Focus Mk1
drove one for several years, can't say i ever had any complaints about the seats:confused: - other than that it's a bigger car than you expect, much more spacious than you'd think and a laugh for a family hatch in the twisty stuff. of the two choices you've given definitely get the 1.6, i had that one and compared to the 1.8TDCi i have now it was gutless, the 1.4 would be a chore i reckon. both the focuses (focii?) have been mechanically solid, had a couple of minor electrical glitches and the infamous leaking windscreen seal but nothing major.

[fizzwheel]

I'd stay away from Golfs and Audis with small petrol motors in them, They are heavy cars and you'll have no performance and you'll end up caning it on petrol as you'll flog the guts out of it to get any decent speed out of it. Also on your budget your looking at older generation cars so the milleage is going to be high..

Liz has a 1.4 W Reg Skoda Fabia, its a great little car, but its gutless and drinks petrol on long journeys...

[rob13]

Aye the reason I picked those few is because cosmetically, I like the look of them, and either way or another, theyre in my budget.

Ive driven focus' for the past 2 years (albeit the 1.4) and yes it is gutless but has a great chassis. I only thought that the seats had no support as they dont have decent firm side bolsters to give you that comfort.

I had a 1.8 Rover 200 from 98 a few years back and ran it for about 18months. In that time I had a lot of trouble with a leaky sunroof and then suffered HGF. THere was no warning, the water level had been checked and all of a sudden it just went. I suspect that a fault in the cooling system may have led to the water loss initially. Unfortunately I have found that the MGZRs in particular are pretty poorly built inside. They dont have the solid feel that the 200 had. Maybe a 25 around 2001 might be a better buy...

James, PM me with some more details about that Civic..... Im particularly fond of Japanese cars

[simesb]

Rovers/MGs post 2001 don't suffer any HG problems. It's a complete myth that it's a fault of the engine design, the K series is actually a stunningly simple concept, brilliantly executed but let down for a number of years by a cost-cutting measure introduced not by Rover but by the engine-building sub-company. A simple matter of plastic head locating dowels causes 99.9% of all the HG failures as the plastic weakens and allows the head to move.

Not quite, but nearly. The Landrover gasket and dowels are far superior, but I have a TF which has a design flaw; the thermostat is poorly located due the the mid-engine installation and this can cause problems contributing to HGF. But otherwise you are correct, the K-series is a great engine, and cheap for parts etc.

[the_lone_wolf]

Ive driven focus' for the past 2 years (albeit the 1.4) and yes it is gutless but has a great chassis. I only thought that the seats had no support as they dont have decent firm side bolsters to give you that comfort.
fair doos - the 1.6 will do the job, the only time i had any major issue was when transporting 4 people + luggage + roof box to southern france, engine had enough poke to overcome aerodynamic drag up until 75mph or so, and over 85 the revs were high enough to develop the power to overcome drag, but between the two it was a nightmare, it would literally take 30 seconds to accelerate from 75-80mph

without wanting to start an argument i'd stay away from the fabia, i've no doubt mechanically it's solid and exceptional value for money, but my mum owned one for some time and it was very tinny, plus the 1.4 engine was a danger on the Mway, which was the reason she eventually traded it for the Focus Mk2 1.8TDCi, which i bought from her when she bought a slightly older BMW 318. the difference in the feeling of quality between the focus and the fabia was greater than going from the focus to the BMW

[fizzwheel]

plus the 1.4 engine was a danger on the Mway

Its not, but it depends how you drive it, if you drive it hard it will do 90mph on the motorway no trouble, but it does need reving to do so and thats why it drinks fuel like a b*stard...

You need to keep momentum up and read the traffic so you dont get boxed in as once it loosing momentum it takes a while to pick it up again.

I wouldnt say it was dangerous though, but yep it doesnt have the power or Torque that the Focus would have...

[grh1904]

Personally I'd go for the Golf, or Skoda (essentially a VW but cheaper !!!!).

I've never bought at one myself, but auctions are meant to be great if you're in no rush and can go a few times. yes you pyas your money and takes your chances, but you could find a great bargain, especially for what you're looking for.

There is a bloke in Darlo who I've bought a car from before, so has the wife, her sister and her mum n dad's current car came from there. When I was once chatting to him he said that sometimes the best bargains to be had are when a car has just come in to a dealer. If they've taken a part ex that they themselves wouldn't clean up and sell on (probably auction it or sell to another {read lower end} dealer), if you leave them your mobile and tell them you'd be willing to take the car as is they might give you a call. It means they don't have to valet it and spend any money changing oil/filter or MOT just so that it's re-saleable. They just add ?100 onto the value that they offered for the part-ex.

I actually tried this a couple of years ago when i was looking for an A2B work only car. I eventually bought an old rover, and about a week later got a call from a dealer who had just taken in a Fiesta that fitted all my requirements, and I could have got it for ?250 cheaper than the Rover, then the head gasket went on the Rover - bloody typical.

[Dan]

Not quite, but nearly. The Landrover gasket and dowels are far superior, but I have a TF which has a design flaw; the thermostat is poorly located due the the mid-engine installation and this can cause problems contributing to HGF. But otherwise you are correct, the K-series is a great engine, and cheap for parts etc.

Aye - but that's a specific issue for the TF, and was the same with the F before it. It's not really a cool-running motor suitable for mid-mounting but it was forced in somehow :)

There was a specific Rover technote about the metal dowel upgrade, and it wasn't manufacturer specific - all the Rover/MG, LR, Lotus, Caterham etc K Series all came off the same line with only very minor differences but the later HGs were all multilayer and located with metal dowels IIRC.

[MiniMatt]

Why flog the mx5? Is it because you need a couple more seats or is just a money thing? If the money, then I'd be tempted to just keep the MX; you're always going to lose money on buying and selling cars, so you'll probably write off a grand just in the process.

When you do need to use a car, I much prefer one that's at least semi enjoyable, and the MX is a top little car, not going to risk your licence with it, but rear wheel drive and nice handling. I've got a broken mark 1 that I can't bear to part with, I keep thinking the engineering pixies will one day magically fix it.

[glade]

This is a great game - what can you buy for ?3k... There's a few cars out there that are a bit more exciting than the humble Fiesta!

Audi A3 1.8T SPORT (1999) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/442821.htm)just sneaks in under the milage. lots of other cars out there 100k+

Ford Puma 1.7 (2000) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/364579.htm) fiesta floorplan, but supposed to be a cracking motor

Merc A-Class (2001) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/396486.htm)hmmm maybe a bit boring

NISSAN SKYLINE GTS 2.5 TURBO (1993) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/424840.htm)Sorry couldn't help it.

Peugeot 306 gti6 (1999) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/372383.htm) A bit softer than a Clio 172 cup, but some people prefer the handling and the 6-speed box. (hmm gone over the capacity limit now - its the skyline's fault)

Peugeot 106 gti Back within your spec and still interesting.

Peugeot 106 series 2 rallye (1998) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/419442.htm)lightweight holomogation model?

Renault Williams Clio 2 (1994) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/366177.htm) Sorry, sorry its a 2.0.... but its a classic. its mint with loads of history too.

GLANZA 1.3 TURBO (1996) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/370411.htm)Meets the spec!!! not to my taste but quick for what they are iirc

VAUXHALL Astra 1.6i 16v Elite (2005) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/382638.htm)Perhaps the most sensible option??

[the_lone_wolf]

Its not...
they were the words of my mother, and considering how she drives finding a car that wasn't fast enough for her was quite a feat...;)

[glade]

bah... i've just found this now

TVR S1 2.8 (1989) (http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/417497.htm)

its your fault if my mrs doesn't get her engagement ring this summer ;)

[northwind]

I've been quietly eyeing up 306 Dturbos ever since they were featured in PPC the other month... Obviously I've got no real opinion to give since I can't even drive :mrgreen: But they seem cheap to insure for a hot-ish hatch, good mpg, and at least fairly interesting, they're basically just a 306 XS with the 1.9 turbodiesel in. Only 90 brake but nearly 150 lbft of torque. And of course if you're into meddling with cars, there's loads of parts interchangability.

Obviously the engine's above your spec but it's a diesel so it doesn't count :mrgreen: It's probably quite comparable to a 1.6 petrol hatch.

[rob13]

I was looking at the DTurbo 306 and had a drive in one. Theyre a bit of a tractor but theyre fairly quick and the seats were fairly comfortable. I think the interiors tend to wear quite quickly

Interestingly, I keep stumbling upon Puma's and they seem to fit most of the criteria that Im looking for. Under ?3k, cheap to run (40mpg avg) look and drive really well, only downside is the Fiesta interior.

Anyone got any experiences with one?

[Camel]

Rob, why a hatchback? Why specific engine size?
Just trying to understand you line of thinking!

[Tim in Belgium]

I...french oil burning stuf......

Interestingly, I keep stumbling upon Puma's and they seem to fit most of the criteria that Im looking for. Under ?3k, cheap to run (40mpg avg) look and drive really well, only downside is the Fiesta interior.

Anyone got any experiences with one?

So am I correct in thinking that you're contemplating going from a hairdresser's car with a small amount of petrolhead cred to a hairdresser's car? ;)

I believe you can fit MESH to a puma too.

[ogden]

Of the two on the original list, my last car was a 306 XSI and my current one's a SEAT Leon (Audi A3 in Spanish clothing).

The 306 was a thirsty bone-shaking go-kart. Phenomenal fun to drive but with a crap engine (123bhp, really, why bother?) it was like a go-kart right down to the heavy-as-a-sack-of-granite steering. If you go that way, get a 97-on post-facelift one and make sure it has the 16v engine (S16/GTI-6 if pre-facelift). They're all dirt cheap - I paid 2k a few years ago for a near mint low-mileage P-reg - and they won't really depreciate much.

The Leon is a hoot. 1.8T engine gives it 180bhp and it pulls like a train as soon as the turbo kicks in not far above tickover. Possibly a bit beyond the budget though.

[Quiff Wichard]

Rob I just got an Alfa 147 - black red leather its fabby ..

but I know you discounted them

(it drives nicer than my BMW ) ..

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/bike%20and%20car/DSCF3377.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/bike%20and%20car/DSCF3379.jpg


anyway ..


dont know much about cars.
but I got this you can buy for 3K.. I will chance being bit-- no MOT though but I am sure it will fly through .. and tax exempt.!!




HTH :eek:






http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/bike%20and%20car/DSCF3502.jpg

[Quiff Wichard]

So am I correct in thinking that you're contemplating going from a hairdresser's car with a small amount of petrolhead cred to a hairdresser's car? ;)

I believe you can fit MESH to a puma too.


nowt wrong with mesh ..

[Wayluya]

My vote would be for a Toyota for the reliability. No idea what model fits yer requirements.

The downside to owning is that 'tis easy to forget what model you have / what it looks like in the carpark.

[Quiff Wichard]

he needs a hatchback for his tall cone shaped head..

[Tim in Belgium]

dont know much about cars.
but I got this you can buy for 3K.. I will chance being bit-- no MOT though but I am sure it will fly through .. and tax exempt.!!




HTH :eek:






http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/sigourneysbeaver/bike%20and%20car/DSCF3502.jpg

Austin 7 Opal tourer, just as long as it's pre'37 it'll have the two bearing engine that is ripe for tuning.

Had a '35 Lwb Ulster Rep (with earlier '34 engine) at one stage, phoenix crank, renault 4 rods and pistons, 1 1/4 in SU pushing out about 40 bhp, super sweet, especially as you couldfeel the chassis flex.

[rob13]

Tim you are a sad man, unless it was a turbo'd pop style motor...

Ill be honest, I dont really care about the hairdresser image, I clearly dont have hair with my "Cone head" so all Im bothered about is the fact that I can pick one up for £3k, Its cheap on servicing & parts and it isnt the worst car in the world to drive.

Quiffy, on the subject of Alfa's, I really like them and would go for a 156 or 147 but theyre renowned for their problems. I know a guy who has a 147 and has had no end of trouble with it.

Camel, the reason I am after a hatch is that I want something i can lug stuff around in but isnt an estate (notably mountain bike and camping stuff). We have been just lucky to get the stuff in wor lass' Fiesta. Ive always liked hatchbacks and specifically I am looking at something with a relatively small engine but not small enough to be flogging it all the time, hence the 1.4-1.6 sort of range.

[Tim in Belgium]

Tim you are a sad man, unless it was a turbo'd pop style motor...



Yes I'm sad, it wasn't turbo'd and had leather bonnet straps.

I'll scan a photo in for a laugh next week at work some time.