appealing against my fines

[Quiff Wichard]

OK - my 2 fines.

I am still not happy-

I am going to appeal. Wriiten an extensive an firm letter and enclosed all relevent info and pictures.

BUT -

Where do I send it to?

dont want it straight in the bin and a letter back sayin pay up.

dont want send to chief constable etc cos it wales and itd brunstrom?


what you think?

[timwilky]

Did any give you points?

Otherwise tbh, I would have thought it as not worth the time/effort of arguing about. Annoying yes, shafted by Brunstrum yes. chances of getting them rescinded, NFC. You should know you can't fight the cash generating system. It exists to fleece you

[Bluepete]

The details where to send it to will be on the back of the ticket. PM me you phone no.

[Quiff Wichard]

OK

[Quiff Wichard]

ta Tim.
I know it wont do anything
just cathartic innit

[yorkie_chris]

Maybe for the can if it was Emarked and baffle in place, but no chance IMO about the plate.

[fizzwheel]

Dont bother. Its just energy that you can spend on doing something productive.

Look at it another way, if he hadnt stopped you for the plate, he wouldnt have noticed the exhaust, and then he wouldnt have noticed your tyres were shot.

That copper might have saved your life....

[Luckypants]

Good point well made Fizz. Small plates are getting a lot of attention around here.

[Tomcat]

Good point well made Fizz. Small plates are getting a lot of attention around here.

And round here lp. Lets face it quiff, if your plate was small ..... consider you nuckles rapped and move on .... use your energy on positive stuff. Believe me I know that these things are not worth dwelling on, you will just become an angry person ... and that just would not suit you ;)

[mister c]

Dave, its not worth the hassle muck, its easier to pay the fine & stay the hell out of Wales like I do :smt003:smt043:smt0828)

[kwak zzr]

id fight it all the way but thats me i'm a knob lol :)

[SoulKiss]

Dave, its not worth the hassle muck, its easier to pay the fine & stay the hell out of Wales like I do :smt003:smt043:smt0828)

They fine you for not visiting Wales

Now THATS a pushy Tourist Board................ :P

[the_lone_wolf]

They fine you for not visiting Wales

Now THATS a push Tourist Board................ :P
try using the severn bridge, it's free to enter wales but they charge you to leave, they know where the profit is...;)

[G]

If you genuinely dont feel you were in the wrong (or think you can put enough doubt in their minds) then go for it.

Otherwise dont waste your time.

I once fought a ?180 fine and 3 points for apparently going the wrong way down a one way street, alot of people said i didnt stand a chance of defending it.

I collected some evidence of about 20 people having to perform the same manourver as I had to and managed to get the to drop the case.

[Wideboy]

try using the severn bridge, it's free to enter wales but they charge you to leave, they know where the profit is...;)

:smt082

[ejohnh]

try using the severn bridge, it's free to enter wales but they charge you to leave, they know where the profit is...;)

Misinformation. Free to leave Wales and free to enter on a bike. Cars get charged to enter Wales.

[the_lone_wolf]

Misinformation. Free to leave Wales and free to enter on a bike. Cars get charged to enter Wales.
it's been a while since we were up there, so it's probably changed

they must've changed it to account for all the holiday makers heading to the beaches of porthcawl, to date still the only place i almost vomited my liver up after ingesting some seawater...;)

[ejohnh]

it's been a while since we were up there, so it's probably changed

they must've changed it to account for all the holiday makers heading to the beaches of porthcawl, to date still the only place i almost vomited my liver up after ingesting some seawater...;)

lol.. so you never supped from the English Channel then? :rolleyes:

[the_lone_wolf]

lol.. so you never supped from the English Channel then? :rolleyes:

mate, i live on the english channel, compared to the waters at porthcawl it's like drinking the finest wine from the navel of a virgin

i guess i should have known something wasn't right with the iridescent green foam that was floating in on the tide:puker::puker::puker:

[Dangerous Dave]

Ok just got pulled on way home from NW3

fixed penalty for plate


F.p for Yoshi exhaust- but doesnt say not for road use and I was told in good faith when I bought the bike that it was Ok.
Right then Quiff, I say don't bother! Been speaking to my neighbour, high ranking traffic cop, and he also recommends you do not bother.

1 - The Plate was obviously the wrong size or font yeah?

2 - Even though your exhaust does not say 'Not For Road Use' it does not mean it is legal, the old bill look for either a 'BS' or 'E' stamp on exhausts and if you have neither then the exhaust is illegal. It is no longer the police's policy to prove your exhaust is illegal, it is yours to prove it is legal by displaying a 'BS' or 'E' stamp. This does not mean that by riveting on one of those badges to a race can will help you get away with it, if the old bill think it is suspicious they will test the bike! A rider has already faced a 'perverting the course of justice' charge in the past!

[ejohnh]

mate, i live on the english channel, compared to the waters at porthcawl it's like drinking the finest wine from the navel of a virgin

i guess i should have known something wasn't right with the iridescent green foam that was floating in on the tide:puker::puker::puker:

Since you sign from the Isle of Wight, mate, I realised that. Went there years ago for many holidays when it was halfway decent; experienced it, found it tacky even then. I am lucky that I managed to escape from SE England to Wales some years back. As for drinking fine wine from the navels of virgins, if true then you have me at a disadvantage.:rolleyes: Has the M4 Severn bridge ever charged both ways? I remember vaguely that the old bridge charged both ways but I am fairly sure that you are totally wrong in your recollection. I'm sure that google will find an answer for you.

[ejohnh]

I October 2007 I got a ?100 fine plus ?58 costs and 5 points for arguing my case. Probably would have been ?60 and 3 points if I had rolled over for it. The magistrates just weren't interested. Brings me up to 8 point but 3 come off this month.. :D

[Baph]

Quiff, a little NW specific info to add to the above...

A while back my other half was caught doing 34mph in a 30. The car is registered in my name, but the documents took 16days to get to me (14day NIP rule).

That day I was on the bike showing her which way to go (and she didn't see the camera in time), we knew who was driving. I did the usual of "I can't remember, send me the photo" etc.

Turned out that she was JUST over the line from an NSL into a 30. Being that she was 4mph over the limit, and the NIP rule, I sent off a nice letter quoting the legislation & providing colour photocopies of the postage stamp marks.

The reply came "This office does not enter into litigation, should you wish to plead your case, please return the form indicating that you wish to have the matter dealt with at court."

Probably a scare tactic, but she had a clean licence, so for ?30 & 3 points, we couldn't be bothered fighting it in a court.

NW Police don't like arguments, they'll probably let you argue with the court.

[neio79]

. It is no longer the police's policy to prove your exhaust is illegal, it is yours to prove it is legal by displaying a 'BS' or 'E' stamp. !

so they are going against the UK legal stance of innocent untill proven guilty??? Surely that in itself is wrong?

[Dangerous Dave]

so they are going against the UK legal stance of innocent untill proven guilty??? Surely that in itself is wrong?
You are innocent until they can't see your 'BS' or 'E' plate which makes you quilty!

[Baph]

so they are going against the UK legal stance of innocent untill proven guilty??? Surely that in itself is wrong?
The regs state the can (or baffle) must have either the appropriate BS or EU stamp mark on them. If they don't (or it's not evident at the time of inspection) then you've comitted an offence.

I have a bolt on from a Bandit12 at home which has "Not For Road Use" on it. It could easily be mounted so that the writing couldn't be seen (in fact, it'd be hidden by the hanger on the SV - not that an SV takes a bolt on natively). That'd still be illegal as it's not stamped.

You can also get a BS or EU marked DBKiller & pop it into a can that is clearly marked "Not For Road Use" and you're perfectly legal (so long as you demonstrate to the officer and MOT inspector that the baffle is stamped - and you pass an emissions test).

[Viney]

try using the severn bridge, it's free to enter wales but they charge you to leave, they know where the profit is...;)
Erm, i think you'll find its the other way round. Pay to get in, out for free.

[yorkie_chris]

so they are going against the UK legal stance of innocent untill proven guilty??? Surely that in itself is wrong?

Innocent unless they can fine you for it. Especially in North Wales!

[SoulKiss]

See this is, in my opinion an illustration of what is somewhat wrong with the system.

A Police Officer can say, without expert knowledge that you have done X/Y/| wrong.

You feel this is unfair but are intimidated that if you challenge it, then it will go worse for you, so you are forced to accept their view.

Kind of a "shut up or get another slap" kind of situation.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You are innocent until they can't see your 'BS' or 'E' plate which makes you quilty!

Since when? I was under the impression that the BS/E was no longer a requirement. At least, not for MOT.

[fizzwheel]

At least, not for MOT.

I thought that was the case for MOT's. But I dont think the Police follow the same rules and regs for exhaust as the MOT test does. which is why the whole thing is ridiculous...

[yorkie_chris]

See this is, in my opinion an illustration of what is somewhat wrong with the system.

A Police Officer can say, without expert knowledge that you have done X/Y/| wrong.

You feel this is unfair but are intimidated that if you challenge it, then it will go worse for you, so you are forced to accept their view.

Kind of a "shut up or get another slap" kind of situation.


+1

Seems to be kinda biased towards extracting money from anyone on the road...

[Luckypants]

I thought that was the case for MOT's. But I dont think the Police follow the same rules and regs for exhaust as the MOT test does. which is why the whole thing is ridiculous...

Precisely. And you tell them to go forth and multiply because your can passes an MOT they will get right shirty.

[neio79]

Precisely. And you tell them to go forth and multiply because your can passes an MOT they will get right shirty.

so if it can pass an MOT can they do anything??

I know there have been cases where stupid cops have tried to do people for having road legal tyres that are of the sporty version.

[Stu]

Misinformation. Free to leave Wales and free to enter on a bike. Cars get charged to enter Wales.
:oops: He' right you know years ago I drove to Wales, then drove the long way round to avoid what I thought would be the same toll to come back! :oops:

[Stu]

So Quiff, you still appealing? I hope not for the plate as it was illegal. as for the can :smt102 probably find a better battle to fight than that one mate.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

so if it can pass an MOT can they do anything??

I know there have been cases where stupid cops have tried to do people for having road legal tyres that are of the sporty version.

Yes, because as Fizz points out we've got this rediculious situation where the rules for what's road legal and for what'll pass an MOT aren't the same thing.

A confusing situation compunded by police who as you say, sometimes don't even know what those rules are.

[Dangerous Dave]

Since when? I was under the impression that the BS/E was no longer a requirement. At least, not for MOT.
Technically it shouldn't pass an MOT either, but many will over look this. Some coppers will over look loud cans too, but not small numberplates. A 'BS' or 'E' stamp is a legal requirement for the road!

Strange I know, but if you start stating that the exhaust pasted an MOT to a copper they will in the end clamp down on MOT standards leaving many of us hours work rectifying or bikes prior to taking a bike to its MOT!

[Quiff Wichard]

I paid the fines

I wrote a letter of concern over his attitude and giving me 2 tickets not one- not expecting anything but made me feel better..

maybe got me black flagged if I go wales again now!.. ha

so- now new tyres- which were goin on anyway .

new plate

and just spent ?200 and a bit on a new yoshi legal exhaust with an e mark..

so my other ones for sale if anyone wants it.!!! :thumbsup:

[Quiff Wichard]

Yes, because as Fizz points out we've got this rediculious situation where the rules for what's road legal and for what'll pass an MOT aren't the same thing.

A confusing situation compunded by police who as you say, sometimes don't even know what those rules are.

correct- when I went to my MOT man to get my rectify notice stamped he said there is a major disparity between MOT requirements and the requirements the coppers apply.. ,, however - if addressed it will most definitey err toward hardening up on the MOT in line with the cops ideas.. so. ... best let sleeping dogs eh..

[metalmonkey]

I paid the fines

I wrote a letter of concern over his attitude and giving me 2 tickets not one- not expecting anything but made me feel better..

maybe got me black flagged if I go wales again now!.. ha

so- now new tyres- which were goin on anyway .

new plate

and just spent ?200 and a bit on a new yoshi legal exhaust with an e mark..

so my other ones for sale if anyone wants it.!!! :thumbsup:

Nope you can give out two ?30 tickects nothing wrong with that.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Technically it shouldn't pass an MOT either...

Yes it should! Unless they've changed them, the rules are it should pass an MOT without a stamp providing it's not significantly louder than standard.

[Dangerous Dave]

Yes it should! Unless they've changed them, the rules are it should pass an MOT without a stamp providing it's not significantly louder than standard.
Sorry I didn't mean having a stamp for MOT's. You don't have to have the stamp for MOT's, but exhausts that are not stamped are generally louder than the regulated limit, hence technically they shouldn't pass!

[Quiff Wichard]

Nope you can give out two ?30 tickects nothing wrong with that.


I know you can ..

but having police officers as friends and a few bobbies on here pm me it is very very rare to give two.. he wa sjust anob and it was end of the month and he hadnt got his quota no doubt

[Baph]

Quiff, mate, if you've been black flagged then what am I? :lol:

When I was commuting huge distances, I used to get pulled over probably once a fortnight!! But then, I did pass 3 Police HQ's, and my riding was less sedate than it is these days... :lol: