View Full Version : BAH! Just got nicked!
Gordon B
21-04-08, 12:08 PM
Just got done doing 90 in a 60. Sounds bad but it was the Selby bypass, 3 lanes wide and as straight as a runway, but didn't see the copper hiding in the bushes (How the frak can you hide a Volvo in a bush so well????)
Anyways because its 50% over I don't get a fixed penalty but a court summons apparently.
Am I liable to get a bigger fine and more points then? Or can I just plead guilty in absence and take the fine so I don't incur court costs as well?
Anyone know if N Yorks do this scheme where you can go on the course instead of the fine or is it the points you don't get?
Thing is I was going to stay at work but thought 'no, nice afternoon, I'll take some work home...':smt067
Double BAH, SWMBO will NOT be amused....
Unlucky. No idea about your questions though. :)
fizzwheel
21-04-08, 12:24 PM
I reckon your looking at points and a big fine. Points I would think somewhere between 3 and 6, fine could be anything.
If your guilty plead guilty, you'll get a chance to do this via the post rather than in person if you want to. Again personally I'd plead guilty by post as it looks better on you in the court as it means they can deal with you faster i.e. you dont waste the courts / judges time. I believe the courts prefer this as it means they can batch them up and process them faster.
Get a solicitor who specialises in traffic law to write you a letter of mitgation, as this will help get the fine and points down. Theres plenty of peeps on the t'internet that will help you with this, wont be a large bill for it either.
HTH
The course is only available to those who have strayed slightly over the limit (up to 10mph I think), and is instead of points, so you won't get that. You're quite likely to get more points and a bigger fine I think. Check the DVLA website as it may be able to give you a hint as to what you're looking at.
Sorry to hear you've got done!
I was under the impression that they weren't supposed to "hide".
I was under the impression that they weren't supposed to "hide".
The law changed on that last year IIRC.
Now, speed cameras and mobile units are free to camoflauge themselves as much as they see fit (like hiding in a horse-box).
Anyone know if N Yorks do this scheme where you can go on the course instead of the fine or is it the points you don't get?
AFAIK you can only get a speed awareness course if your caught in a 30 and doing under 40mph.
I done one a few months back.
Hope the outcome isn't too severe.
You could write a letter of mitigation yourself but be careful not to suggest that you weren't paying attention as that will simply make things worse - eg 'I didn't notice my speedo drifting from 60 to 90' suggests driving without due care etc.
arenalife
21-04-08, 12:37 PM
I think doing more than 26mph over the limit warrants a court summons according to the last NIP I got a few months ago. I don't know how flexible that is.
Gordon B
21-04-08, 12:40 PM
You could write a letter of mitigation yourself but be careful not to suggest that you weren't paying attention as that will simply make things worse - eg 'I didn't notice my speedo drifting from 60 to 90' suggests driving without due care etc.
What would I say though? Thing is I knew how fast I was going...yes, it was a clear road, dry, bright and no hazards, but I'm still guilty nonetheless no?
Would I not be better to just put my hands up and say 'sorry'?
The law changed on that last year IIRC.
Now, speed cameras and mobile units are free to camoflauge themselves as much as they see fit (like hiding in a horse-box).
I've heard this too, but it does seem a little unfair.
Hopefully with the right advice and help things will be OK for you. I'd certainly be careful about anything you say from now on though, as Ed has said.
In terms of the original question:
How the frak can you hide a Volvo in a bush so well????
Here (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:XHQfpLDSXrCssM:http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/373/policecargardenvt0.jpg) and here (http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00420/snn1717a682_420245a.jpg) seem good sources of information.
fizzwheel
21-04-08, 12:48 PM
Would I not be better to just put my hands up and say 'sorry'?
Yep thats what I'd do.
I'd also pay a bit of cash and get somebody who knows about this stuff to write it for you. No sense in incriminating yourself.
What the online specialist solicitors do, is to get you to fax all your paperwork over to them, they read it and then they phone you and go through it all, and then write it up in legal speak.
It really does make sense I think to present yourself in the best light possible.
Reckon Fizz has it spot on here TBH
I think you'll find it's a court summons. If it were points you would have been given a statuary fixed penalty notice. Because you didn't, it's a court appearance. I think you'll also find you will be looking at a short term ban. I also think you'll find that you can not admit guilt by post and not attend.
You can plead mitigating circumstances and reasons for not receiving a ban. Need licence for work etc. This can possibly lead to receiving 5 points and a hefty fine instead. However this is normally reserved for 30 and above mph over the top of the national speed limit on motorways. Not sure if they allow the same for 60 mph roads.
I also am awaiting my court summons ... apparently 89.56 mph in a 50. Doesnt sound good I know, but this speed limit on this particular stretch of road (A515 Ashbourne/Buxton) is a money spinner. Anyway, am still waiting to hear, it has been 2 months now .... not a nice feeling :sad:
Gordon B
21-04-08, 01:42 PM
I also am awaiting my court summons ... apparently 89.56 mph in a 50. Doesnt sound good I know, but this speed limit on this particular stretch of road (A515 Ashbourne/Buxton) is a money spinner. Anyway, am still waiting to hear, it has been 2 months now .... not a nice feeling :sad:
2 months? Yikes. I thought a summons had to be sent within 14 days of the offence?
2 months? Yikes. I thought a summons had to be sent within 14 days of the offence?
apparently not, it can be anything upto 6 months. Dont worry fella that sick feeling will pass and you will start to sleep again! I still rush home from working to look at my post tho .... nothing yet (maybe they have lost the ticket or decided that I was a victim of unfair bullying!)
Think it probably be a short term ban for me, but you are bang on that 30 mph over the limit, so it could go either way .... upto 6 points and fine, or short term ban. I have been advised to just go with the flow, and that its not worth trying to make 'excuses' .... could just get their back up more. Lets face it its a lot over the limit :-dd
Bad luck.
Note to self: DON'T SPEED!!
fizzwheel
21-04-08, 01:49 PM
2 months? Yikes. I thought a summons had to be sent within 14 days of the offence?
No its the NIP that has to arrive in 14 days.
They have 6 months to get a court summons out to you. What exactly did the copper say to you when he pulled you over ?
Luckypants
21-04-08, 01:55 PM
If you been told that you will be reported for the offence and that you will be summonsed to court, that is a verbal NIP and you been had. Bad luck dude.
A friend of mine was picked up recently doing 95mph on the M58 near skelmersdale, the copper doing him told him it would have been a ban for doing 96mph + , cant remember the outcome but it was big points and fine iirc, hard luck btw.:(
Fizzy Fish
21-04-08, 02:12 PM
bad luck guys - fingers crossed for you both!
i really find this whole anti-speed thing annoying - in particular on motorways/dual carriageways. OK I'm not saying have no limits, or allow 60mph past schools or something, but a lot of the time they enforce in paces which are 'accident blackspots' NOT due to speed but due to people driving like numpties.
I reguarly commute in all weathers on the A3 (3-lane dual carriageway with hard shoulder). In the last few year I have only ever seen evidence of one accident there, and this is despite the general traffic flow regularly at 90mph+ and fast lane often c. 110mph+. There are few junctions, fairly good vis and somewhere safe for someone to pull off to if there's a problem.
Now to be fair they rarely do speed traps there, but the point is if I got pulled at 100mph and banned i'd be pretty peed off as it isn't like i've ever even had a near miss on that road. So if speed is so dangerous why have most people who speed at considerably over the limit there never had an accident?! And why must people like Tomcat and Jamaxx be made to feel guilty for doing something which didn't pose any danger to anyone else?
:rant:
Dicky Ticker
21-04-08, 02:13 PM
Were you on the bike or in a car and did you get pulled by the officer operating the equipment,was it in calibration,was he authorised to use it did, you get shown the display,was he wearing uniform while operating the equipment,was he more than 10mts from the carriageway,what distance was the equipment being operated at,is there photographic evidence. I have just had a brief defend me for speeding,a bit more than you and I was very very lucky to get £150 + 3points, plus a £1800 legal bill but my offence could easily have been a ban
What would I say though? Thing is I knew how fast I was going...yes, it was a clear road, dry, bright and no hazards, but I'm still guilty nonetheless no?
Would I not be better to just put my hands up and say 'sorry'?
Yes of course you would. But the factors in mitigation... it's a very wide road, there was nobody else on it, it was dry and bright, excellent visibility, no danger to anyone else, that is not to excuse speeding and you hold your hands up, realise it was silly, won't do it again.
Warthog
21-04-08, 02:36 PM
Aw that is unlucky. In my view there are two factors at work here:
a) It's a 60 limit and you did 90. So don't try to get out of it, just say you are very sorry.
b) 90mph is just a number, it is situation that is everything. 90 through traffic past a school is atrocious, 90 on a clear three lane road is not bad at all. So I would write a letter or get one written explaining the circumstances. Hopefully they will be lenient.
Good luck!
90 in a 60. Sounds bad but it was the Selby bypass, 3 lanes wide and as straight as a runway, ....
Did you mean 3 lanes in each direction? If so,
Why is the speed limit 60?
If not, sounds like you need a good solicitor to get you off completely like a 'friend' of mine who got away not guilty of 101 in a 30
I got pulled by a cop with a rader speed gun on the A5 on Anglesey. I was in a Vectra about 4 years ago and he clocked me at 105mph in a 70 zone.
I opted to go to the court to put my hand up and say sorry, I prefer to do this stuff face to face rather than be treated like another peice of paper on the pile.
A duty solicitor was there for free, he did put my mitigating circumstances forward and explained that I was obviously a good character (:-)) for taking the trouble to turn up at court.
I got 6 points and a ?250 fine that I opted to pay there and then. Job done.
Flamin_Squirrel
21-04-08, 03:35 PM
3-lane dual carriageway
A what? ;)
Gordon B
21-04-08, 03:38 PM
No its the NIP that has to arrive in 14 days.
They have 6 months to get a court summons out to you. What exactly did the copper say to you when he pulled you over ?
SHE said....(see below)
If you been told that you will be reported for the offence and that you will be summonsed to court, that is a verbal NIP and you been had. Bad luck dude.
Like the idea of having the duty solicitor defend me though:D
Lets wait and see what happens. Need transport for work so can't take a ban. I know a couple of legal types so will take some advice on writing a letter. I am a School Governor after all. Oh wait, shouldn't that make me MORE responsible:confused:
did u ask for a certificate of calibriation for the speed gun. Dont they need to be able to present this to you on request?
Not calibrated daily....say the gun must have been faulty as i was doing 60 officer?
No.....ok. im sure i read this somewhere tho. Im of to find where now
diamond
21-04-08, 04:09 PM
I got caught doing 93mph on the M5 last June on the way back from the North/ South run. The officer said by the side of the motorway that he was reporting me for the speeding offence and for driving without due care. I was just begining to think nothing would come of it after a few montths and a letter arrived giving me a court date of Nov 29th. Fortunatly the only offence was the speeding.
I contacted a specialist solicitor and faxed him all of the paper work, the next day he rang me and i went through everything with him on the phone, he knew all about bikes and we spent an hour discussing the case. He then wrote me a very convincing letter of mitigation and e-mailed it to me. I printed it out and signed it and enclosed it with my court paperwork. All this was done in a matter of days and for the princely sum of £99. It was then a matter of waiting for the court date.
For my speed the max i could get was 6 points and £2000 fine. I got 5 points and £200 so it could have been worse. Not sure if the letter helped or not i may have got that without it but i didn't wanna take the chance. Good luck with yours.
fizzwheel
21-04-08, 04:10 PM
SHE said....(see below)
You've got 6 months to wait then, dont be surprised if it comes through with a few weeks to go until the 6 months are up either.
Best of luck with it.
metalmonkey
21-04-08, 04:13 PM
How exactly were you told you are going to be reported for the offence how was it worded, were you cautioned? This all important, can you remember? Bad luck.
Gordon B
21-04-08, 04:16 PM
How exactly were you told you are going to be reported for the offence how was it worded, were you cautioned? This all important, can you remember? Bad luck.
Yeah, I was cautioned. Anything you may say etc...
Fizz and Ed seem to have given the best advice here. Start getting smart quoting technicalities and you may be lucky but most often than not it will just rattle them more, unless you have a very valid reason and from the sounds of things you ain't. ;)
I think its the Magistrates Court Act that requires a summons within 6 months.
I see on the BBC news this morning that there is a Europe wide campaign on dodgy driving and the camera vans now have three cameras, one of which is mounted on the front to capture the rear number plate. - Bummer! note to self, prob time to trade in the gixer for something a little more sedate?:(
I got caught doing 93mph on the M5 last June on the way back from the North/ South run. The officer said by the side of the motorway that he was reporting me for the speeding offence and for driving without due care. I was just begining to think nothing would come of it after a few montths and a letter arrived giving me a court date of Nov 29th. Fortunatly the only offence was the speeding.
I contacted a specialist solicitor and faxed him all of the paper work, the next day he rang me and i went through everything with him on the phone, he knew all about bikes and we spent an hour discussing the case. He then wrote me a very convincing letter of mitigation and e-mailed it to me. I printed it out and signed it and enclosed it with my court paperwork. All this was done in a matter of days and for the princely sum of £99. It was then a matter of waiting for the court date.
For my speed the max i could get was 6 points and £2000 fine. I got 5 points and £200 so it could have been worse. Not sure if the letter helped or not i may have got that without it but i didn't wanna take the chance. Good luck with yours.
At a tenth of the potential fine a £99 gamble seems worth it even though its the points that hurt the most IMO
Defender
21-04-08, 04:49 PM
Sorry to hear you got caught - I suppose sooner or later we're bound to get stopped.
Is it too late to pay something into the Police fund in the hope they'll tear the ticket up ;)
timwilky
21-04-08, 04:57 PM
I got caught doing 93mph on the M5 last June on the way back from the North/ South run. The officer said by the side of the motorway that he was reporting me for the speeding offence and for driving without due care. I was just begining to think nothing would come of it after a few montths and a letter arrived giving me a court date of Nov 29th. Fortunatly the only offence was the speeding.
I contacted a specialist solicitor and faxed him all of the paper work, the next day he rang me and i went through everything with him on the phone, he knew all about bikes and we spent an hour discussing the case. He then wrote me a very convincing letter of mitigation and e-mailed it to me. I printed it out and signed it and enclosed it with my court paperwork. All this was done in a matter of days and for the princely sum of £99. It was then a matter of waiting for the court date.
For my speed the max i could get was 6 points and £2000 fine. I got 5 points and £200 so it could have been worse. Not sure if the letter helped or not i may have got that without it but i didn't wanna take the chance. Good luck with yours.
93mph Liz?. So you had already slowed down a bit then:)
Gordon B
21-04-08, 05:06 PM
I got caught doing 93mph on the M5 last June on the way back from the North/ South run. The officer said by the side of the motorway that he was reporting me for the speeding offence and for driving without due care. I was just begining to think nothing would come of it after a few montths and a letter arrived giving me a court date of Nov 29th. Fortunatly the only offence was the speeding.
I contacted a specialist solicitor and faxed him all of the paper work, the next day he rang me and i went through everything with him on the phone, he knew all about bikes and we spent an hour discussing the case. He then wrote me a very convincing letter of mitigation and e-mailed it to me. I printed it out and signed it and enclosed it with my court paperwork. All this was done in a matter of days and for the princely sum of ?99. It was then a matter of waiting for the court date.
For my speed the max i could get was 6 points and ?2000 fine. I got 5 points and ?200 so it could have been worse. Not sure if the letter helped or not i may have got that without it but i didn't wanna take the chance. Good luck with yours.
Prolly go down this route tbh. Don't like the whole 'technicality' thing.
As for the 'police fund' I thought that's what my 4 figure council tax was for!:cool:
Just told SWMBO and think I got off quite lightly. Some mild swearing, the usual 'don't do it again' and then 'surprised its taken this long...' speech.
fizzwheel
21-04-08, 05:09 PM
Will see if we can find you the link for the website Liz used. IMHO the guy she spoke to was really good, and I think it was £99 well spent.
Tim - just as tad ;)
I got pulled by a cop with a rader speed gun on the A5 on Anglesey. I was in a Vectra about 4 years ago and he clocked me at 105mph in a 70 zone.
I opted to go to the court to put my hand up and say sorry, I prefer to do this stuff face to face rather than be treated like another peice of paper on the pile.
A duty solicitor was there for free, he did put my mitigating circumstances forward and explained that I was obviously a good character (:-)) for taking the trouble to turn up at court.
I got 6 points and a ?250 fine that I opted to pay there and then. Job done.
I think you'll find you didn't have any choice. It would have gone to court regardless of your preference.
What would I say though? Thing is I knew how fast I was going...yes, it was a clear road, dry, bright and no hazards, but I'm still guilty nonetheless no?
Would I not be better to just put my hands up and say 'sorry'?
Aye, dont bother writing, they arent bothered.
I got done for 80 odd through 50mph roadworks on the M6 way up north ages ago, got a court summons for it. Was 2am, only me on the road, no 'roadworks' anywhere in sight, good conditions. So i wrote them a letter explaining this and asking what was actually wrong with me doing that speed given those circumstances?
They never replied, netted me 6 points and a big fine.
timwilky
21-04-08, 05:18 PM
I got flashing blues behind me doing 90+ in a 30 some years ago.
Nice man told me off and sent me on my way.
diamond
21-04-08, 05:34 PM
93mph Liz?. So you had already slowed down a bit then:)
Yeah, lets just say Fizz and i had really been putting the Ducati and the GSXR through a bit of a testing experience just prior to this unfortunate event. Hence i was not gonna get to het up about it as i just thanked my lucky stars he hadn't seen us 30miles earlier.
Jamaxx i used motorlawyers.co.uk they wrote a great letter about me mostly, and why i'm responsible and what affect it would have if i lost my licence, they didn't try and justify my speeding as there was no question i had done it.
All what if what ifs..
Truth is, NO-ONE knows but the judge on the day.
I got 6 points and £400 fine for 116mph average and 131mph peak......
So ignore anything else as no-one can really say.
Get a letter from work stating you need your license yadder blah. Then play the innocent im sorry story and hope for the best. All you can do im afraid.
Gordon B
21-04-08, 05:58 PM
Jamaxx i used motorlawyers.co.uk they wrote a great letter about me mostly, and why i'm responsible and what affect it would have if i lost my licence, they didn't try and justify my speeding as there was no question i had done it.
Thanks, I'll look them up.
Gordon B
02-05-08, 12:36 PM
Well it looks like my day in court is coming sooner than I thought.
Got my summons today (normal post, not even recorded)
I'm off before the beak on the 29th May at High Noon. According to the leaflet from York Magistrates there is a duty solicitor available so I'll get him, or her of course, to represent me.
Just need to fill in my means test thingy, plead guilty by post and thats it.
Not really that nervous tbh, just gonna go, admit it and take my punishment.
On the positive side I am waaaay more cautious when out and about now, just narks me watching all these other people speeding through 30's and stuff. Why didn't they get nicked. Grrr
Hey, ho wish me luck and I'll let you know the outcome on the day.
On the positive side I am waaaay more cautious when out and about now,
Good then the crappy system has worked on you
just narks me watching all these other people speeding through 30's and stuff. Why didn't they get nicked. Grrr
They, like me:(, will get caught sooner or later.
Luckypants
02-05-08, 01:21 PM
...Just need to fill in my means test thingy, plead guilty by post and thats it.
Not really that nervous tbh, just gonna go, admit it and take my punishment.
Do you need to attend if pleading guilty by post?
Well it looks like my day in court is coming sooner than I thought.
Got my summons today (normal post, not even recorded)
I'm off before the beak on the 29th May at High Noon. According to the leaflet from York Magistrates there is a duty solicitor available so I'll get him, or her of course, to represent me.
Just need to fill in my means test thingy, plead guilty by post and thats it.
Not really that nervous tbh, just gonna go, admit it and take my punishment.
On the positive side I am waaaay more cautious when out and about now, just narks me watching all these other people speeding through 30's and stuff. Why didn't they get nicked. Grrr
Hey, ho wish me luck and I'll let you know the outcome on the day.
Hangings too good for you ruffian motorcyclist types! Lock 'em up and throw away the key.
Gordon B
02-05-08, 03:14 PM
Do you need to attend if pleading guilty by post?
Yep, apparently it saves time in court, and, who knows, might put me in a better light.[-o<
diamond
02-05-08, 03:19 PM
I was told the opposite, if you plead guilty by post the court doesn't even sit, the judge just does the paper work in his office and can do loads in a day. If each person attends the whole court circus is needed and takes more time and money.
Just need to fill in my means test thingy, plead guilty by post and thats it.
Take your time on this and include absolutely everything you can think of. It is used to determine the size of your fine.
When I was in court over mine I heard them discussing the fine with relation to my personal finances and I was glad I put the effort in.
Luckypants
02-05-08, 03:55 PM
Yep, apparently it saves time in court, and, who knows, might put me in a better light.[-o<
I was told the opposite, if you plead guilty by post the court doesn't even sit, the judge just does the paper work in his office and can do loads in a day. If each person attends the whole court circus is needed and takes more time and money.
I was told the same as e.d. hence my question. My brush with the law was a long time ago, so was wondering if things have changed?
I'd advise checking up if you need to go to court if pleading guilty by post.
Ceri JC
02-05-08, 05:20 PM
Both lawyers and magistrates advised me the most lenient outcome would follow pleading guilty by post, then turning up on the day. It worked- I got a measly SP30 for doing over a ton and my fine was reduced by 1/3 as a 'thank you' for pleading guilty by post and not wasting their time waiting till the day of court to enter a plea (which would involve the state-funded prosecutor having to actually do something and hence charging them more).
Gordon B
02-05-08, 05:30 PM
Both lawyers and magistrates advised me the most lenient outcome would follow pleading guilty by post, then turning up on the day. It worked- I got a measly SP30 for doing over a ton and my fine was reduced by 1/3 as a 'thank you' for pleading guilty by post and not wasting their time waiting till the day of court to enter a plea (which would involve the state-funded prosecutor having to actually do something and hence charging them more).
Aye.
The letter says the case cannot be heard in my absence.
But P2 states -
The court when passing sentence on you will consider giving you a lower penalty if you enter an early guilty plea.
The amount of any discount will depend on how early you indicate your plea, as well as the circumstances that made you plead guilty.
If you wish, yo can write to the prosecutor and the court as soon as you have been charged or summoned and are sure that you want to plead guilty.
Ceri, Did you just write a bog standard letter or was it a specific format.
Bluepete
02-05-08, 05:36 PM
I am following this with interest 'cos I have no real idea what happens after I send the summons off!
It's interesting to see the process from "the other side"
Pete.
SoulKiss
02-05-08, 10:39 PM
I am following this with interest 'cos I have no real idea what happens after I send the summons off!
It's interesting to see the process from "the other side"
Pete.
Surely to REALLY get that experience you should just go do silly speed on the motorway and get pulled :P
not helping, am I ???
:P
lukemillar
02-05-08, 11:18 PM
Surely to REALLY get that experience you should just go do silly speed on the motorway and get pulled :P
not helping, am I ???
:P
Yes, but for Bluepete, surely said silly speeds would be for "training purposes" :wink: :p
(tongue firmly in cheek)
Only just seen this Gordon , Bloody bad luck :(
Hope it goes ok in court mate.
Graham
tomjones2
03-05-08, 12:55 AM
You might get away with it, I was caugt doing well over the limit and I was literally shouted at and told that I was a t*** and that would lose my licence but nothing came of it, the officer never cautioned me though. From what I have heard from other experinces the letter will come though in the last month of the sixth month period.
May sound very nieve of me but I would rather go to court to fight my case rather than let a magistrate decicde my fate over a cup of coffee in there office, from what I have heard there are a number of potential factors that can scupper the case, exactley how did you get caught? Really depends whether you reckon you will keep your licence by pleading guilty. Were you doing 90 or closer to a ton?
As peps have said talk to a solictor before doing anything
Gordon B
03-05-08, 07:29 AM
Only just seen this Gordon , Bloody bad luck :(
Hope it goes ok in court mate.
Graham
Thanks mate.
imaleon
03-05-08, 05:50 PM
Surely it's 70 limit on an A road dual carriageway (or 3 lane)
Gordon B
03-05-08, 07:12 PM
Technically its only single carriageway. Its one of the those roads thats like one and half lanes each side.
Victor P
03-05-08, 07:32 PM
Was he near the Burn/Brayton round about of new bypass? saw T5 there this morn. Know the road well.
Its all part of operaton anvil or sumat and they talk of fast tracking excess speeders so they might want to throw the book at you.
I'd go to court wear a nice suit get some references and grovel. It all depends what mood the magistrate is in at end of day.
Good luck mate we've all done these speeds (and more) in the right conditions.
SV PILOT
03-05-08, 10:07 PM
Well, how did you get busted? i.e. VASCAR, speed gun etc. Also if it was anything dual carriageway or bigger with a national speed limit sign it was a 70mph zone. If you got busted by a parked pig car then no doubt they had you on a certain system to record speed. BUT, if it was not displayed or "advertised" as a safety camera area then you can fight it as the cops cannot technically have a temporary system in place without proper visibility of there car or system. Court can be a B*****D sometimes as they don't like people fighting it as I have seen people get worse punishments than they were offered in the first place. Get your ducks in a row before you do as they can be harsh. . .and they can get away with it!
silversurfer
03-05-08, 11:26 PM
there's a solicitor's firm who specialise only in motorcycle law that writes in the back of Fast Bike magazine I think. Can't remember the name but flick through a copy and you'll find out - hey the answer to your questions might even be in there! Or if you have enough time you could even write to them in the mag and have a shot at having him answer you for free?!
silversurfer
03-05-08, 11:30 PM
in fact the guy's name is Andrew Dalton and the firm is White Dalton
www.whitedalton.co.uk (http://www.whitedalton.co.uk)
0800 783 6191
Good luck
Gordon B
13-05-08, 07:17 PM
Update for those of you following my case. (blue, this means you:))
Sent off my guilty letter and my means test.
Just read in the paper today that a woman caught doing over 100 on the same stretch of road as me and then caught AGAIN 3 days later doing 52 in a 30 only got 11 points and a 500 note fine.
Now I'm sure its all down to the magistrate on the day etc etc but that seems mighty lenient to me.....
I had a big problem a good few years back and I can tell you that solicitors are worth their weight in gold. I had to sell my lovely car to pay for him (cost ?800) but what should have been an instant ban resulted in 3 points and a ?100 fine. I kid you not. I probably wouldn't have the good job I've got now or my own home had I not used one.
Good luck, hope it all goes well.
Incidently over the last 10 or 15 years I've watched speed limits go down a lot near where I live to the point that it's getting a bit stupid. North Circular anyone?
:)
Update for those of you following my case. (blue, this means you:))
Sent off my guilty letter and my means test.
Just read in the paper today that a woman caught doing over 100 on the same stretch of road as me and then caught AGAIN 3 days later doing 52 in a 30 only got 11 points and a 500 note fine.
Now I'm sure its all down to the magistrate on the day etc etc but that seems mighty lenient to me.....
What date were you caught, I still havent heard anything on mine, its been nearly 3 months ?
garyholc
14-05-08, 08:09 AM
I wouldnt just put up my hands, say sorry and take it up the rear. There are things you can do. Firstly check if the signs on the road are legal. I have seen speeding cases thrown out because the signage on the road was incorrect, such as a black circle around the speed limit signs which isnt legal.
Check the road confirms to legal standards by checking the signage, go to http://www.abd.org.uk/speed_limit_signs.htm and check the signs are correct, else you could argue against your fine. You could if the road has recently had its speed limit reduced, or even if its been reduced in the past few years write to the council and demand to know what order was used to reduce the limit. Thousands of fines were thrown out because councils were not using the correct order to reduce the limit (it has to go to public consultation first) and I would put money on it there are many more roads where the new speed limit isnt legal because the limit has not been introduced legally.
Secondly you can question the accuracy of the device measuring your speed - There is also a case where the hand held laser guns used by the police have been proven to be inaccurate. Many people have gone to court and won their case because their lawer has proven that the guns are unable to register accurate speeds - for example, in one particular case, the lawer pointed the gun at the wall of the court and the gun returned a speed of 4mph.
This website is also a bible of knowledge for knowing your rights : http://www.pepipoo.com/ read the pages on the law and hidden cameras. The only defence you could have here would be to argue that you were infact doing less speed than the NIP indicates, and that the camera used has been proven to be inaccurate - if there is photo evidence, and any large vehicles passing, this will also increase your chances of a successful case because getting the speed of a motorcycle is incredibly difficult due to lack of reflective surface to reflect the laser (cops point at number plates on cars) and laser scatter will occur and bounce off larger vehicles passing, thus giving an inaccurate speed reading. Gatso cameras have also recently been proven to give inaccurate speed readings though I am guessing we all know where they are.
At the end of the day it all depends how far you want to take it, but the majority of people who fight their case given past evidence usually win.
Gordon B
14-05-08, 08:10 AM
What date were you caught, I still havent heard anything on mine, its been nearly 3 months ?
Got my summons about a week after getting nabbed.
bad luck guys - fingers crossed for you both!
i really find this whole anti-speed thing annoying - in particular on motorways/dual carriageways. OK I'm not saying have no limits, or allow 60mph past schools or something, but a lot of the time they enforce in paces which are 'accident blackspots' NOT due to speed but due to people driving like numpties.
I _would_ say do away with all speed limits altogether. If there is an accident then a judge can decide if your speed was a cause and punish (award points what have you) accordingly. e.g. what harm is there in going at 80 past a school at midnight on Sunday? Doing 30 past it 9am Monday morning is a _lot_ more dangerous.
Update for those of you following my case. (blue, this means you:))
Sent off my guilty letter and my means test.
Just read in the paper today that a woman caught doing over 100 on the same stretch of road as me and then caught AGAIN 3 days later doing 52 in a 30 only got 11 points and a 500 note fine.
Now I'm sure its all down to the magistrate on the day etc etc but that seems mighty lenient to me.....
Have a look at www.pepipoo.com where there are people who really know what they are talking about regarding fines/penalties/how to get off/when to plead etc.
But from my lurking up to 26 mph over the limit gives 3 point 60 fine, more than that gives 4-6 points and a max fine of 2000, over a ton and a ban is likely. Or I could of course put a link in to a calculator that works out likely outcome properly
http://www.pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm
Gordon B
29-05-08, 02:27 PM
OK heres the story of my day in court.....
Due in at 12pm, arrived about 1115. Spoke to the usher on arrival, she didn't seem to think I needed to see the solicitor so she took my license away and I took a seat and waited......and waited......and waited......eventually got bumped from one court to another and went in the dock at 145.
Charge was read out, did I understand why I was in court etc etc. The clerk looked like a young version of David Dickinson and I kept expecting him to tell me it was as cheap as chips at some point!
The magistrate asked if I had anything to add, I said that riding a motorbike I know better than most about how dangerous speeding can be, this seemed to go down well so feel free to use it if you ever need to, I also said I needed my bike for work.
End result - 6pts and £245 fine which includes £30 costs and £15 victim surcharge (eh??)
I haven't had to pay any solicitors fees or anything.....
Bit of a result me thinks......
Not bad that
and £15 victim surcharge (eh??)
There is a fund which supports victims/families of people killed/injured in accidents caused by speeding.....I think that is where you £15 goes....could be wrong though.
sv_rider1990
29-05-08, 03:19 PM
I got done for going through a national speed limit into a temporary 50 and back into a national speed limit and my average speed was 83mph and thats not that bigger offense seeing as it was a 70mph dual caaridge way but i genuinally missed the temp 50 as when i went back one of the signs had fallen over and the other was slightly hidden by a bush at a certain angle... i got 3 points and a 60 quid fine.... the police were in a undercover bmw (sly b*rstards arent they lol)! Since then ive stuck 5mph under the limit as if i get another 3 cuz im 17 im off the road :(
Back upto speed on this one (excuse the pun!)
I had my court summons for last thursday, pleaded guilty by post and wrote out a nice paragraph on mitigating circumstances.
I have rung the court today, apparently it has been adjurned until the end of the month, I have to show, and it is to present me with my decretionary ban. I have had legal advise and apprently there are NO guidelines on this, it is purely upto the magistrate on the day, weeks or months .... if it does turn out to be more then 56 days, I will have to retake all my licenses .... gutted does not begin to say how I feel this afternoon :(
Back upto speed on this one (excuse the pun!)
I had my court summons for last thursday, pleaded guilty by post and wrote out a nice paragraph on mitigating circumstances.
I have rung the court today, apparently it has been adjurned until the end of the month, I have to show, and it is to present me with my decretionary ban. I have had legal advise and apprently there are NO guidelines on this, it is purely upto the magistrate on the day, weeks or months .... if it does turn out to be more then 56 days, I will have to retake all my licenses .... gutted does not begin to say how I feel this afternoon :(
****
That is all :(
Shellywoozle
07-07-08, 02:44 PM
OK heres the story of my day in court.....
Due in at 12pm, arrived about 1115. Spoke to the usher on arrival, she didn't seem to think I needed to see the solicitor so she took my license away and I took a seat and waited......and waited......and waited......eventually got bumped from one court to another and went in the dock at 145.
Charge was read out, did I understand why I was in court etc etc. The clerk looked like a young version of David Dickinson and I kept expecting him to tell me it was as cheap as chips at some point!
The magistrate asked if I had anything to add, I said that riding a motorbike I know better than most about how dangerous speeding can be, this seemed to go down well so feel free to use it if you ever need to, I also said I needed my bike for work.
End result - 6pts and £245 fine which includes £30 costs and £15 victim surcharge (eh??)
I haven't had to pay any solicitors fees or anything.....
Bit of a result me thinks......
You can sleep again properly now ;)
Biker Biggles
07-07-08, 03:26 PM
Im glad all those "victims" of your terrible crime got paid out as well:confused:
if it does turn out to be more then 56 days, I will have to retake all my licenses .
I wouldn't bank on that being fact. Having myself been in such circumstances as loosing my licence for an 'extended period' I did not have to take my licences again. Although I did have to wait an additional 6 months before I was given my class 1 HGV back.
JamesMio
07-07-08, 04:02 PM
I've been reading this thread with great interest!! A glimmer of hope at least!
tanis34
07-07-08, 08:55 PM
glad to hear it turned out ok(ish) for you m8
Gordon B
07-07-08, 08:57 PM
glad to hear it turned out ok(ish) for you m8
Thanks.
Fingers crossed for TC now...
£160 fine and 6 points.
Very pleased, worked really hard on my mitigation pleau, and even managed to question the pc's accurracy without getting a bollo**ing!!
This was my second time back in court on this one, the opening lines were 'you are here to be disqualified do you understand that'
What a relief, just thought I would post being as I am about to ride my bike (very very carefully!) to work this morning with a big smile on my face!:D
the opening lines were 'you are here to be disqualified do you understand that'
Lol, thats a cheery welcome if ever i've heard one!
Glad it didnt go that route though!
Gordon B
30-07-08, 08:09 PM
£160 fine and 6 points.
Very pleased, worked really hard on my mitigation pleau, and even managed to question the pc's accurracy without getting a bollo**ing!!
This was my second time back in court on this one, the opening lines were 'you are here to be disqualified do you understand that'
What a relief, just thought I would post being as I am about to ride my bike (very very carefully!) to work this morning with a big smile on my face!:D
Nice one. Glad it worked out OK.
tanis34
30-07-08, 08:14 PM
Nice one. Glad it worked out OK.
+1 lucky
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