Blue_ the School Teacher - dilemma

[Blue_SV650S]

This is a long one, so only read if you can be bothered or bored!! :D But I am after peoples thoughts - what would you do in my situation?


Ok, so I am at the point where I am considering a total career change, I have mentioned becoming a teacher before and had kinda put it to bed a bit ... but I had another spurt of enthusiasm/interest/curiosity today ... so with a slightly different slant I did some more enquiring 8)

So the decision is to teach primary. I have no teaching experience, but that doesn't matter. I have two routes open to me, do teacher training. 1yr (9 months) ?4,000 bursary, but ?3,150 tuition fess, so essentially unpaid/unfunded. So I need to 'keep' myself for a year with no income.

Or you can spend your first year as an unqualified teacher. i.e. you go directly to the classroom and start teaching, but have another teacher there to hold your hand for the first year. Equally qualified at the end, but you get paid ?14.5k ...

So which avenue to choose there is a no-brainer is is ;)

Right, now for the dilemma.

I am prepared to take the financial hit of only earning ?14.5k for the first year.

But after becoming qualified the starting salary is ?20k. And it doesn't really get much better than that (no wonder the bu66ers are on strike :shock: ) ... the ceiling for a teacher is ?29.5k. So I assume that means that even if you have been there 10yrs you would be lucky to be on ?29.5k ...

Now I earn quite a bit more than that NOW ... :shock: (ok, not NOW now as I have quit my job, but getting another job the same but different, that is the sort of pay I?d command again).

Basically at ?20k I'd be talking roughly a 50% pay cut ... now that is quite a hit isn't it!! :shock: So is this obviously a non-starter then?

Not as such no -

I am not going to go into my financial situation too much, but I could indeed survive on ?20k year if I really wanted/had to ... but I am sure you can appreciate, my standard of living to which I have become accustomed would obviously be reduced - I also would like to move forward, not backwards in life ...

So is it really all worth it?

One thing that crossed my mind ...

Is there still really a North - South divide?

My rationale being that if I could half my cost of living, I could still have the same standard of living as I do down here ...

I am not sure that is the case now though is it?? :scratch: And I'd want to move somewhere coz it was a bit cheaper, just as it is up-norf, not coz it was a drug induced warzone or summin!! :D

It's a real shame that I feel priced out of doing this ...

Any thoughts?

[dizzyblonde]

Or you can spend your first year as an unqualified teacher. i.e. you go directly to the classroom and start teaching, but have another teacher there to hold your hand for the first year. Equally qualified at the end, but you get paid ?14.5k ...?

How does this work? I didn't know you could take this route, could you explain this a little further, whats the catch, apart from having some one hold your hand. Do you have to have been on a course for a certain time before they let you in the classroom, or is it as simple as putting you straight to the lions and gaining experience, and on day release etc get trained...only asking because I have toyed with the idea in the past, and had no idea you could go this route

[Blue_SV650S]

How does this work? I didn't know you could take this route, could you explain this a little further, whats the catch, apart from having some one hold your hand. Do you have to have been on a course for a certain time before they let you in the classroom, or is it as simple as putting you straight to the lions and gaining experience, and on day release etc get trained...only asking because I have toyed with the idea in the past, and had no idea you could go this route

Yep, straight into the pit!! 8)

The person I spoke to didn't say there was any external training required. Its 'on the job' type training. He didn't explicitly say, but I think you get someone come along at the end to see how you are getting on to give you your qualification. :scratch:

Remember, I don't know any more than I picked up from a phone conversation, if you are truly interested about the exact detail, then give them a ring direct http://www.tda.gov.uk/

[Beaniebike]

Move to Scotland! Our pay and conditions is WAY better than those in England! Top of pay scale, which you get to after about 6 / 7 years is 33K. If you do extra work, and get yourself a masters degree you can become a chartered teacher, and the pay can go up to around 39K! :smt045

[Blue_SV650S]

Move to Scotland! Our pay and conditions is WAY better than those in England! Top of pay scale, which you get to after about 6 / 7 years is 33K. If you do extra work, and get yourself a masters degree you can become a chartered teacher, and the pay can go up to around 39K! :smt045

Cool, how much is say a 3 bed detached with a garage in a nice area in Scotland? (or give me a name of a nice area/place and I can look on right move myself ;)). I suppose one mans nice is another mans s-hole, and visa-versa, but you know, a fairly affluent area ...

From my few visits I have done, it is truly lovely up there 8)

Just a shame they don't like the English :(

p.s. For the ~?39k, is that any masters degree, or does it have to be one in teaching!?! ;)

[Blue_SV650S]

dizzy, read this, this is the route I'd be taking:-

http://www.tda.gov.uk/Recruit/thetrainingprocess/typesofcourse/employmentbased/gtp.aspx

[Wayluya]

Look at the Pension arrangements carefully, could still be one of the few good deals left.......worth real $$$ Notes.....yer just have to wait for 'em!

Holidays? I dunno what industry you are in, but from what the Teachers say it is the only industry I have ever heard of that is not chock full of folk willing and able to do as little as humanly possible, and some work very hard at doing b#gger all!...........and so whilst I am sure their are teachers who work 27 hours a day, including the holidays - somehow I doubt this is compulsory.......and longggggggg paid holidays are worth serious money. Last year I was on holiday 4/5 months, but no fooker paid me :mad:....but then again I earnt a bit more than a Teacher.........:)

Job security could be worth something - but IMO depends on the individual, for me the thought of doing the same job for 20 odd years is something I would accept less money to avoid!

Teaching stuff to kids? It's not as if the 5 times table changes much every year or a great deal has happened recently in the Crimean War :).....and you can make a big difference to a kid's life.....albeit probably only to about 1 a year :cool:

I think more money comes from taking on managerial responsibility........albeit I get the impression that the money is not commensurate with the extra grief.

[Blue_SV650S]

...

I had a pretty good pension where I was ... I also had 30 days leave (+public holidays) and worked flexi, so technically, not only could I come and go almost at will (assuming I made the time up) ... but if I put in slightly longer days 4 days in the week, I could take every Friday off 8)

At the end of the day, money is an important part of life ... I don't mind trading a bit of pay for the change, but you gotta agree, ~50% with little hope of ever getting much more is a massive hit and not something that can be ignored!! :shock:

I've basically got to accept that I'd spend the rest of my life 'struggling' with/for money ... ... I really like the idea of teaching, but I am not sure I want that ...

BTW I am in no way 'rich' now .. but I am also far from 'struggling'. Bearing in mind I don't want the latest Ferrari on the market so not in that league, I think nicely 'comfortable' is the term used ...

[Wayluya]

I don't mind trading a bit of pay for the change, but you gotta agree, 50% with little hope of ever getting much more is a massive hit!! :shock:

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from - I thought about doing the Teacher thing years ago........the old "giving something back" / "a job that meant something" stuff.......but I am glad I didn't both $$$ wise and because by now I would have felt like I was trapped and simply wasting my time.....

I think the teaching thing attracts those who like and value security and structure.....and I am sure many of them are also attracted by the actual teaching......I can see how it would make a good first job, that would later be hard to give up.......

And that 50% is just now! - they are due for a cycle of "falling behind" again - outside teaching / a structureD job (career?) if someone is capable of earning well, their is no limit.......

[Blue_SV650S]

...

Yep, so I go from a position of being financially comfortable (not rich, not extravagant lifestyle, just comfortable) to being on the bread line ...

Also, the longer I stay out of the 'professional' game, the harder it'd be to get back in again too ... so indeed it is a life changing decision with little chance of going back ...

I hope everyone can see why I am struggling to make this decision ... my (financial) head says NO my heart says give it a go ...

At the end of the day I could be dead tomorrow :smt085 ... so should I really worry about the money/prospects bit?!?! :smt120

[Wayluya]

Compromise?

Teach yer job / proffession either within your industry directly for $$$ notes or at Night School / part time.......or even learn a new skill / subject to teach part time?.........at least until you have it out yer system!

What I did to "cure" me of such thoughts was to b#gger off RTW for a year or so...........and when I came back I think I just forgot :p

[kitkat]

you can have a lovely 2 bed flat for £87000 - mine.

but check out the job situation before you do anything. we have 2 probationer teachers at the school at the moment. they did a year and have spent a year with a class. unfortunately there are no jobs available, yet there has been a big teaching push. 2010 there are supposed to be vacancies

[Blue_SV650S]

Compromise?

Teach yer job / proffession either within your industry directly for $$$ notes or at Night School / part time.......or even learn a new skill / subject to teach part time?.........at least until you have it out yer system!

What I did to "cure" me of such thoughts was to b#gger off RTW for a year or so...........and when I came back I think I just forgot :p

Yeah, I should just forget about it ...

But there would always be that nagging what if??

No wonder the Gov is struggling to get males into teaching!! :rolleyes:

[Beaniebike]

[quote=kitkat;1489559]you can have a lovely 2 bed flat for ?87000 - mine.

but check out the job situation before you do anything. we have 2 probationer teachers at the school at the moment. they did a year and have spent a year with a class. unfortunately there are no jobs available, yet there has been a big teaching push. 2010 there are supposed to be vacancies[/quote

This is true. However you8 pretty much always get long term supply work (mostly) and that can be good when gaining experience.

As for the chartered teacher thing - yes, your masters has to be in teaching! In fact, it is a very specific Chartered Teacher masters degree that is designed to prove that you have enhanced practice in the class. You can get accreditation for work that you have done, but you have to be able to prove that you have had impact in the class.

However, i have to say that teaching is by no means an easy option. In order to do your job properly, you need to be prepared to put in some hard work. A teacher can have enormous influence on any child, negatively or positively, and that is not something that should be taken lightly.

On the flip side, yes the hols are good!!!;)

[Blue_SV650S]

but check out the job situation before you do anything. we have 2 probationer teachers at the school at the moment. they did a year and have spent a year with a class. unfortunately there are no jobs available, yet there has been a big teaching push. 2010 there are supposed to be vacancies

Its all a bit carp isn't it :(

[Blue_SV650S]

On the flip side, yes the hols are good!!!;)

The downside is that they are pre-set, so I can't take them pretty much whenever I want/fancy (like I can now). :cry:

And they will always be ONLY when the ruddy kids are off!! :smt013

I am rapidly talking myself back out of this again aren't I!?! :D

[Beaniebike]

The downside is that they are pre-set, so I can't take them pretty much whenever I want/fancy (like I can now). :cry:

And they will always be ONLY when the ruddy kids are off!! :smt013

I am rapidly talking myself back out of this again aren't I!?! :D

Well, yeah. And the prob with that is that you cant get any good deals on hols cos you have to go peak season. as a result, you might have a shed load of time off but not enough money to take advantage of it! However, if you have kids, it pretty ideal as you have to take your hols when they are off anyways, and you don't have to worry about childcare arrangements.

[Blue_SV650S]

Well, yeah. And the prob with that is that you cant get any good deals on hols cos you have to go peak season. as a result, you might have a shed load of time off but not enough money to take advantage of it! However, if you have kids, it pretty ideal as you have to take your hols when they are off anyways, and you don't have to worry about childcare arrangements.

Exactly, you don't have enough money to live properly ... so you are literally living to work ... I don't mind the work time, but I do want to have some valuable 'me' time, else what is the point?!!? ;)

No nice holidays, no nice bikes, no nice cars, no trackdays, no nice house ... nothing ... its all gone ... as have the prospects of it ever happening even if you don't have them/it perfect right now ... that is one hell of a sacrifice ...

Oh and its just as well I don't have kids as I wouldn't be able to afford to feed them!! :D

[andyb]

Blue - My mum is a deputy-head at a primary school. Only go into teaching if your heart is 100% into it. I know you can get away with skiving and only working 9-3 and some do but not many IMO. She works an average of 60hrs a week, no tea/lunch breaks during the day etc. It's completely her choice but she wants whats best for the kids! She been kicked/spat at by children, and threatened by a parent when confiscating drugs from an 8yr old! (She works in an OK area too!) I don't know you at all but you don't seem the kind of person who would put up with that without lamping the parent (as I would do).

If your heart if 100% into this then go for it, but if you're not sure then I'm not sure if it's the job for you?

All just my opinion and may give you a few things to think about, please feel free to ignore it though :)

[ArtyLady]

Sorry if youve already said - but what did you used to do before?

[Blue_SV650S]

I don't know you at all but you don't seem the kind of person who would put up with that without lamping the parent

Yes, I get agitated by stupidity/ignorance, but apart from when I was at primary school and I had to defend myself once from the school bully :smt064, I've never hit anyone in my life! O:) I am not really the violent sort! Actually seeing people using violence as a mode of communication just makes me pity them and makes me angry in a different way!! :rolleyes:

Sorry if youve already said - but what did you used to do before?

I have been asked in the past on here, I have never said as it was never overly relevant and with good reasons that will hopefully be quite apparent right now ... 8-[

Ok, so I suppose there isn't really much harm in saying what I do/did now (bearing in mind as of ~ 15:30 tomorrow, I no longer do it/work there and I am not going to give anything directly away as I can't/wont!! ;)).

Ok with a very broad brush (again for good reason) .. for the last decade I am/was a professional scientist in one of the leading blue chip military defence company's. Again, nice broad brush/big handfulls - as a scientist I basically worked with other scientists and did military research into collective artificial inelegance for military applications.

As we all know, military funding is drying up all the time, as a consequence as is the interesting work ... I get bored real easy, so a few steps between i.e. me putting in for redundancy and here we are with me looking for a new career!! ;)

So now you (and anyone that reads this) know/s ... and I don't care if you think it is BS , as if anything there are advantages to that! ;)

I think it is safe to say that not many people would have guessed what I did for a living :D (again in some ways that was possibly a good thing and shows diligence on my part! ;)).

[Beaniebike]

Ok with a very broad brush (again for good reason) .. for the last decade I am/was a professional scientist in one of the leading blue chip military defence company's. Again, nice broad brush/big handfulls - as a scientist I basically worked with other scientists and did military research into collective artificial inelegance for military applications.




So, basically, you're like the guy that made Data in Star Trek!! God, didn't know we were using androids!!\\:D/

[Jackie_Black]

Good day org,

Here is what i know.

I'm in my 4th year of secondary teaching in an inner city north east secondary school with approx 2200 kids in it. The training situation as it stands is very lucrative for secondary. You get a £9k tax free bursary and some LEA's even pay the fees. You can also get a £4k loan if you need it.

Now if you can teach a true shortage like Science, Maths etc then you would get a job up north easy ( a 3 bed hoose where i live is £150k or so) you will also get a 2.5k golden hello after a year.

Our pay goes from approx 20 - 30k (6 years) then you go through threshold and go from 32 - 35K (additional 3 years). If you want to teach in scotland however as mentioned before you must train there as they have a different qualification. Also if you want to be a head ours currently gets just over 110k.

I noticed you were interested in primary but if you train secondary you can easily swap and teach primary (doesn't work the other way though). If you are a man you are more likely to get a primary job as there a very few male primary teachers.

Finally the holidays. It's a common misconception we never work but i challenge anyone on here to work with 250 kids a week and not need a break after 6 weeks. As far as i'm concerned only the 6 week holiday is a real one the others are barely long enough to unwind.

So there you go, hope this helps. If you need to know owt else just ask.

[Lissa]

Blue, if you really want to teach.................go for it.

My son graduated with a degree in Sport Science two years ago, and has a very well paid job, but he is giving all that up in September to do this at Reading

http://www.reading.ac.uk/education/pg-taught/ioe-PGCESecondaryPE.asp

He wants to teach. He wants to get kids motivated to lead more active lives and not just be couch potatoes. No, it's not an academic subject, but physical fitness is important too, isn't it?

For what it's worth, having read a lot of your slightly off-the-wall stuff, I think you might be just what kids need!:D

[K]

You'll never really know how you'll handle/enjoy it unless you actually do it.

If someone had asked me three years ago if I thought I could handle living pretty much hand to mouth and dealing with being on crutches all the time I'd have said "Hell no!".
I like my security, occasional perks and freedom to just buy something I like on a whim, the knowledge my bills are all paid and the rest of my money is mine to do with as I please... the thought of running my own business scared the carp outta me.

As for being a crippo - I was very much a physically active person and so any sort of physical confinement would have driven me near to insanity than I already am with boredom.

I look back on the last three years (and forwards too) and can honestly say that being a crippo, losing my job and being forced to find a way to pay the bills (own business) has been one of the most liberating experiences in my life. Go figure. :oops:

Asking for advice is great, but at the end of the day - you have to try for yourself or never really know... and you might find you surprising yourself with the changes in your life.

[Alpinestarhero]

With the money thing, think of it this way; with your previous, well-paying job, you've been able to afford certain luxuries (like several bikes!) and I assume things like nice TV's and furnishings and stuff. Well, you've got all that now, and as long as you feel happy with everything and nothing breaks and you don''t plan on buying anything for a few years, then 20k per year isnt too bad to live off. It'll pay the bills, rent/morgage and food, pay for petrol and stuff. Ok, yea you'll have to maybe save some money aside for some more trackdays and everything, but its not so bad.

Out of mine and maria;s combined students loans (came to about 12k per year for two years), we afforded rent (£69 each p/w), food (about £50 p/w shop) and utility bills; we managed to survive. On top of that, because we put spare money aside, we afforded things like going out, taking trips to brighton on the train (ruddy expensive!), and we even managed to keep enough aside so that I could do my bike training, fail one test, and pass the next one, and then get me an SV, insure it, tax it, fix it up, topbox-ify it.

If you're carefull with your money, and buy FIRST what you need and THEN what you want, you'll live well off £14.5k, and do good out of 20.

Matt

P.S. I like the catch-all term "scientist". I'm a scientist too (nearly, 5 weeks, woo!)

[Blue_SV650S]

Ok boys and girls! Today we shall be learning about where Blue_ has got to with his teaching career ... :lol:

Before you can start any official teacher training, you need to have spent ~2 weeks in the back of a classroom as an observer. I guess so you get an idea of what it is like and if it is for you etc.

So, I have arranged to go and see a local primary school on Monday, I'll fill in the paperwork so they can do background checks to check I am not a kiddy-fiddler :smt003. This takes ~48hrs and then I can start. So giving it a bit of leway and assuming the clearance comes through in time, we have agreed next Friday as my first day in the classroom. :flower:

[Lissa]

Ok boys and girls! To day we shall be learning about where Blue_ has got to with his teaching career ...

Beforeyou can start any official teacher training, you need to spend ~2 weeks in the back of a classroom as an observer. I guess so you get an idea of what it is like and if it is for you etc.

So, I have arranged to go and see a local primary school on Monday, I'll fill in the paperwork so they can do background checks to check I am not a kiddy-fiddler :smt003. This takes ~48hrs and then I can start. So giving it a bit of leway and assuming the clearance comes through in time, we have agreed next Friday as my first day in the classroom. :flower:

Nice one!

Good on you!:smt023

[Ed]

TBH Blue I didn't think you'd do it. Well done. I hope it goes well:D

[Blue_SV650S]

Nice one!

Good on you!:smt023

TBH Blue I didn't think you'd do it. Well done. I hope it goes well:D

It has got to the stage where there is no point doing any more hypothesising, doing the classroom visit should sort it one way or another ...

In some respects I hope I hate it as it will stop any further deliberation over the pay stuff as it then obviously a non-starter!! :eye:

[Blue_SV650S]

Oh and I have already thought what the first thing I am going to say to the class on my first day* is!! 8)

*i.e. my first day as a teacher, not an observer ;)

[kitkat]

good luck and the kids are all nice and high at the moment looking forward to summer holidays.