If points go through air quicker why is a Kwasaki ZXR1400 and a Busa curved??

[sv_rider1990]

Heres one for you to do with the debate about curves and points (bit of friendly banter intended) why if points go through air quicker are the 2 fastest bikes in the world curvey heeeey? Regarding to the pointy SV and curvy SV ongoing debate lol!

I meant ZZR1400 btw - Title lol!

[Razor]

Everything good has curves, roads, wimmins, motorsickles...

[600+]

hmmmm not sure.......why are arrows slim and pointy?

[Demonz]

hmmmm not sure.......why are arrows slim and pointy?

Bullets are rounded though arent they?

[sv_rider1990]

lol have to say the ZZr1400 is all curves isnt it where as the busa does have the best of both.... why are aeroplanes curved but why are jet planes pointed?
Iiiinteresting!!!

[Razor]

Bullets are rounded though arent they?

Not all bullets.

[the_lone_wolf]

...if points go through air quicker...
they don't...

the most aerodynamic shape* is something resembling a teardrop, much like the busa tries to be

*disclaimer - for subsonic speeds

[pencil shavings]

they don't...

the most aerodynamic shape* is something resembling a teardrop, much like the busa tries to be

*disclaimer - for subsonic speeds

That my friend is an interesting bit of information. I will store that for random fact day! :study:

[northwind]

Arrows are pointy so they go through people better. Same with most bullets, until they got powerful enough that they went straight through and did less damage, so now round or flat tips are common to slow the bullet down on impact and do more damage. Fowling blunt arrows (arrows with big round heads) fly almost as well as target sharps despite being much heavier.

With bikes the front end isn't really as important as you'd think, it's side and rear drag that's the big problem and there's not much to be done about that because of the rider

[Alpinestarhero]

Think about a rain drop; what shape is it?

a sort of tear shape, with a blunt front end and a pointy rear. The fluid leaving an object going through a fluid (thats a gas or liquid, and that whole part of this sentance sounded a bit odd) is just as, and sometimes more, important than the air being displaced around the front of the object as it punches through the...fluid

Think about how the air flows over and low pressure regions and stuff

[Durbs]

Think about a rain drop; what shape is it?

a sort of tear shape

To be picky, they arent actually. Raindrops are spherical, larger ones are burger bun shaped and even larger ones are parachute shaped.

[sv_rider1990]

The space shuttles are curved for more aerodynamics aint they??

[the_lone_wolf]

The space shuttles are curved for more aerodynamics aint they??

nearly all aircraft noses are curved...

bonus question: why is concorde's nose a point?



answer at eleven

[sv_rider1990]

nearly all aircraft noses are curved...

bonus question: why is concorde's nose a point?



answer at eleven

true very true.... pointless topic reallly just been bored so thought id make a discussion about the ongoing thing about pointys vs curveys.

[pencil shavings]

nearly all aircraft noses are curved...

bonus question: why is concorde's nose a point?



answer at eleven

super sonic speeds?
for clearer views when dipping the nose during landing?
:-k

[zunkus]

A classic example lies in the ocean creatures. Sharks and dolphins are both very quick creatures (note the avoidance of saying fish as one isn't, ahem!) but, the dolphin is has a higher speed being more hydrodynamic than the pointy shark. Sharks do look speedier to a schoolboy though don't they, they still baffle me today about looking faster but aren't than the dolphin. In design I've learned that sharp angles give a more masculine feeling whilst curves trigger the brain's feminine connotations. In fact, most owners of curvier vehicles refer to them as a she, whilst sharper styled as a he. Style does come into play as to what looks cool though. This is well orchestrated through all sorts of products coming out of the industry. A style starts to evolve as a successful item is recognized as the latest wow factor, this could be anything but mostly it's a car, which is one of the more expensive manufactured thing sold.
A thing to notice is that 'the trend' is so much instilled into todays designs, that most things start to look alike. I'm so glad for manufacturers like KTM who dare to make something different.

[northwind]

super sonic speeds?
for clearer views when dipping the nose during landing?
:-k

Because it looks ace? Heat issues?

[Dangerous Dave]

Arrows are pointy so they go through people better. Same with most bullets, until they got powerful enough that they went straight through and did less damage, so now round or flat tips are common to slow the bullet down on impact and do more damage.
By the time a high and medium velocity a bullet reaches its target it is nolonger pointy and has a rounded head!

[DanAbnormal]

lol have to say the ZZr1400 is all curves isnt it where as the busa does have the best of both.... why are aeroplanes curved but why are jet planes pointed?
Iiiinteresting!!!

A lot of modern jets would be unflyable if it weren't for the complex avionics systems. The Eurofigther Typhoon and F117 Nighthawk are two prime examples. The traditional airofoil concept still stands but computers can make almost any shape fly these days.

[charris]

To be picky, they arent actually. Raindrops are spherical, larger ones are burger bun shaped and even larger ones are parachute shaped.


http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/raindropshape.html

[Dicky Ticker]

Thats explains why bumble bees are so aerodynamic

[hovis]

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn

[northwind]

Thats explains why bumble bees are so aerodynamic

Apparently wasps are more aerodynamic flying backwards :smt045

[Dicky Ticker]

Please--please don't tell me you have a reverse gear on your SV now:D

[OldBoy]

lol have to say the ZZr1400 is all curves isnt it where as the busa does have the best of both.... why are aeroplanes curved but why are jet planes pointed?
Iiiinteresting!!!

Aerodynamics at super sonic speeds are different from sub sonic.

[OldBoy]

A classic example lies in the ocean creatures. Sharks and dolphins are both very quick creatures (note the avoidance of saying fish as one isn't, ahem!) but, the dolphin is has a higher speed being more hydrodynamic than the pointy shark. Sharks do look speedier to a schoolboy though don't they, they still baffle me today about looking faster but aren't than the dolphin. In design I've learned that sharp angles give a more masculine feeling whilst curves trigger the brain's feminine connotations. In fact, most owners of curvier vehicles refer to them as a she, whilst sharper styled as a he. Style does come into play as to what looks cool though. This is well orchestrated through all sorts of products coming out of the industry. A style starts to evolve as a successful item is recognized as the latest wow factor, this could be anything but mostly it's a car, which is one of the more expensive manufactured thing sold.
A thing to notice is that 'the trend' is so much instilled into todays designs, that most things start to look alike. I'm so glad for manufacturers like KTM who dare to make something different.
I noticed this when Ford brought out the Escort and Cortina. They said the Cortina was a family car with good fuel consumption due to good aerodynamics, for the family man struggling to make ends meet perhaps. And the Escort with its masculine shape a macho car for the lads I suppose.
As you say 'the trend' its certainly in bikes with sports, fighter, cruiser etc.takes ages for things to change.
So why did Suzuki change the SV shape? either to keep up with current trends or did some one say it looked like a girls bike;)

[zunkus]

So why did Suzuki change the SV shape? either to keep up with current trends or did some one say it looked like a girls bike;)

No, jokes apart, the japs are well know for having a new design every year if posible, the SV was turning in the cash and they wanted it to stay up to date with the trends of pointy stuff coming out at the time (2002) so they changed a bit the shape. They took the opportunity to make an easier to manufacture frame and had to intall fuel injection to keep the 'warmer world' boys happy. I think the curvy SV is a classic (my opinion) and if they had to make a new model they would go back to a curvy shape with some subtle edges. Look at the other 2008 bikes/cars and you'll get what the trend is.
A girls bike? Well to me I refer to my sv as a she, I've got no problem with that. She makes me happy. I don't think you'll wanna say he makes me happy right? :rolleyes:

[yorkie_chris]

Right, the reason that a teardrop shape is aerodynamic is because it allows the flow to remain laminar for longer. Rapid changes in section tend to cause the flow to become turbulent, which brings with it, in general, greater pressure drag.

Take for example an egg shape, put in in a wind tunnel, just for a laugh. And see how much drag there is... the egg shape, blunt end first, will have lower Cd than a ball of same diameter, even though more surface area affected by viscous drag, the elongated shape's turbulent "wake" is much further back, giving less pressure drag.

With either a point, or a curve, you're still going to get similar behavior, but imagine a square, at 45 degrees to direction of flow; the corners at the sides will have the effect of "tripping" the boundary layer, and giving a very large wake, probably around the full 180 degrees around the downstream sides.

[Tim in Belgium]

Exactly Yorkie Chris, it's all about integrating the pressure around the total surface area, simple eh?

[yorkie_chris]

Yup.

[beaniebikerbabe]

Everything good has curves, roads, wimmins, motorsickles...

too dam right!!! lol :cool:

[ThEGr33k]

Im just wondering what makes you think that pointy is better? Look at almost anything stream lined and they are curvy.... Only thing I can think of that isnt is the stealth planes but thats COMPLETLY different. :D

[ThEGr33k]

too dam right!!! lol :cool:

Pictures... :p

[sv_rider1990]

Me being me i would like to find out what the scientific answer lol! As a guy said earlier though i think half of the problem is keeping up with the "trend" though.

[yorkie_chris]

Me being me i would like to find out what the scientific answer lol! As a guy said earlier though i think half of the problem is keeping up with the "trend" though.

See my earlier post... There isn't just one answer except for "point's don't go through air quicker"

Pointy bikes are all fashion.

[Tim in Belgium]

Or unfashion ;)

[yorkie_chris]

Hehe +1

[suzsv650]

look at moto gp bikes they do 200 + and i belive they are quite curvy...


even the duke which is meant to be the fastest isnt particulary pointy is it???

[northwind]

look at moto gp bikes they do 200 + and i belive they are quite curvy...

even the duke which is meant to be the fastest isnt particulary pointy is it???

Yah, but they're not spectacularily aerodynamic either... I remember reading that they built a more aerodynamic RCV211, but ended up redesigning the nose for downforce. Bikes are basically horrible for aerodynamics, because of the rider, the exposed wheels, open gaps, and generally irregular shape...

[BanannaMan]

I'm a curvy fan....
Curves are always better, as metioned earlier(bikes women, roads)
and I call my bike a she... :cool:


But...
Keep in mind the aerodynamics of any motorcycle is only slightly better than a sheet of plywood being held up against the wind.

Motorcycle body design is all about fashion and based on what "looks" fast and/or what's selling on the current market.



Interestingly... you can round off one end of a brick...and place it in the windtunnel...and it will be more aerodynamic with the rounded edge to the rear.

[yorkie_chris]

Yup done that, far as we figured it was because of boundary layer seperation further back.

Still more aerodynamic than the naked SV anyway lol

[wyrdness]

Thats explains why bumble bees are so aerodynamic

What, because they have complex avionic computer systems?

[sv_rider1990]

Regarding the naked/faired though the faired will be more aerodynamic wont it because of the wind goes over the fairing instead of going straight onto your chest acting like a parachute in effect (not reffering to fat people btw) lol. I guess thats why on bike racing they widen there bodies out and stick there arms and legs out when slowing down off of a long straight??

[yorkie_chris]

Yup. Naked bikes have really bad aerodynamics, faired ones are a little better.

[Dangerous Dave]

I remember reading that they built a more aerodynamic RCV211, but ended up redesigning the nose for downforce.
And stability in mid corner apparently.

[Razor]

Yup. Naked bikes have really bad aerodynamics, faired ones are a little better.

You could put on some weight for a better rounded shape?

[sv_rider1990]

You could put on some weight for a better rounded shape?


Haha lol or be a skin flint so no drag???

[northwind]

Yup. Naked bikes have really bad aerodynamics, faired ones are a little better.

Yup. But the difference in speed isn't actually all that much (I should do some top speed runs in both forms, but I'm too chicken, it feels like I'm going to blow off the back at 110 :smt103)