View Full Version : When the brakes are not strong enough, use a bush...
Seggons
28-04-08, 08:42 PM
...a junction or an entrance to a farmers field.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3vctLAvlkgo
Why is it that bushes always like nice and soft, but when you ride into one they always stab in all the wrong places.
lucky very lucky, but the corner did not seem that sharp, what went wrong did you not lok through it enough, and fixated on the bush???
Didn't notice your helmet turn to look round the corner. Where was this out of curiosity, I'm assuming its localish to both of us?
Anyway, glad you came out unscathed, bet you were glad to get home!
Also, riding roads like that, with a decent view I'd sit closer to the middle of the road, not the middle of the lane that isn't marked ;)
lucky very lucky, but the corner did not seem that sharp, what went wrong did you not lok through it enough, and fixated on the bush???
It doesn't have to be sharp if you freeze up or target fixate :(
Last weekend I went down the road I come a cropper on, piece of **** to ride :(
Jesus christ dude, get yourself on a bike safe course.....3 occasions on one ride where if the runoff had been into a wall, up a kerb, or into a group of people it could have been a whole lot worse.
DarrenSV650S
28-04-08, 09:06 PM
You really need to get some cornering practise. Look around the bend, not at the bush/road. And you really need to lean the bike a lot more. Very lucky
Jesus christ dude, get yourself on a bike safe course.....3 occasions on one ride where if the runoff had been into a wall, up a kerb, or into a group of people it could have been a whole lot worse.
I've watched him ride and to me this looks like a bad day :confused:
The view is kinda like being pillion, so I'm traumatised by watching that.
If I really was on the back, your kidneys would be so bruised you'd pee claret...
Seggons
28-04-08, 09:41 PM
Before I reply here was the route I was on: http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=93564
After adapting it it come to a total of 197 miles of pure riding with no stops.
It didn't help that the tire was just above the legal limit.
lucky very lucky, but the corner did not seem that sharp, what went wrong did you not lok through it enough, and fixated on the bush???
Concentration levels dropped and so to did my confidence when getting the bike setup so I never really committed myself to the bend.
Didn't notice your helmet turn to look round the corner. Where was this out of curiosity, I'm assuming its localish to both of us?
Anyway, glad you came out unscathed, bet you were glad to get home!
It was around the Ramsey area
Jesus christ dude, get yourself on a bike safe course.....3 occasions on one ride where if the runoff had been into a wall, up a kerb, or into a group of people it could have been a whole lot worse.
Totally agree. But I'm sure no matter how experienced or how many courses you've been on it doesn't make a person immune to things like this. Normally if there are people are about I take a whole different attitude to my riding.
You really need to get some cornering practise. Look around the bend, not at the bush/road. And you really need to lean the bike a lot more. Very lucky
Most of the time I look around the bends, but when you get into those situations the concentration moves to braking and keeping the wheels from locking.
If you watch the video very slowly you will see just before hitting the bush I managed to lock the rear wheel, kick the rear to the right so I went slightly side on and missed the main part.
I felt like I was leaning the bike over enough because I got my toe down once and covered 95% of the extremely squared off tire.
Just something I'll put down to experience and learn from.
DoubleD
28-04-08, 09:46 PM
dude, that was more than lucky.
watch those right hand bends fella.
Oooh boy, you're lucky you got off so lightly. Nice job keeping it upright in the jungle but what was going on there?
Live and learn. On that evidence you need to go back to absolute basics. Riding for fun can't be much fun with that in the back of your mind. Slow right down until you sort yourself out, or get some tuition.
SoulKiss
28-04-08, 09:50 PM
Before I reply here was the route I was on: http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=93564
After adapting it it come to a total of 197 miles of pure riding with no stops.
It didn't help that the tire was just above the legal limit.
Concentration levels dropped and so to did my confidence when getting the bike setup so I never really committed myself to the bend.
It was around the Ramsey area
Totally agree. But I'm sure no matter how experienced or how many courses you've been on it doesn't make a person immune to things like this. Normally if there are people are about I take a whole different attitude to my riding.
Most of the time I look around the bends, but when you get into those situations the concentration moves to braking and keeping the wheels from locking.
If you watch the video very slowly you will see just before hitting the bush I managed to lock the rear wheel, kick the rear to the right so I went slightly side on and missed the main part.
I felt like I was leaning the bike over enough because I got my toe down once and covered 95% of the extremely squared off tire.
Just something I'll put down to experience and learn from.
Point #1 - this is Great Britain, we use tyres in this country young man !!!!
Dont be so defensive you messed up - but you didnt have to put it up on youtube etc, you could have pretended it never happened and deleted the file - you didnt, and you used it to reflect on what went wrong - good on ya.
My only advice would be to get that squared tyre sorted out - the way the bike would tip in on new rubber would have given you the confidence to have made that turn.
Glad you are fine, that the bike is fine and that you have learned something.
Next thing to learn is to never comment on your speed on the internet.....
markmoto
28-04-08, 09:50 PM
I cant see why that happend on the second time, you didnt seem to attempt to go around the corner?
If you'd done that on our rideout I'd have given you such a slap!:p
markmoto
28-04-08, 10:01 PM
She would an all ;-)
Wideboy
28-04-08, 10:04 PM
wow respect for posting that up mate, you must have been crapping a brick sideways, i know i would have been :)
Seggons
28-04-08, 10:06 PM
I cant see why that happend on the second time, you didnt seem to attempt to go around the corner?
If you get thrown off a horse, get straight back on it. The only problem is I tried to back to my original pace (which was already too quick) with shattered confidence.
suzsv650
28-04-08, 10:15 PM
thats funny!
lean your dam bike!!!!
markmoto
28-04-08, 10:17 PM
you wernt looking at the satnav were you?
you wernt looking at the satnav were you?
Or listening to an i pod.........................one of my pet hates!
Oh, if you're out that way and want company, PM me ;)
Or listening to an i pod.........................one of my pet hates!
Yes, the one and only time I listened to an ipod I ended up getting my knee down, shortly followed by my arm and head.. Never again!
Seggons
28-04-08, 10:20 PM
If you'd done that on our rideout I'd have given you such a slap!:p
I think I would've died from embarisment before you get a chance to slap me.
I think I would've died from embarisment before you get a chance to slap me.
Live and learn matey :)
Seggons
28-04-08, 10:26 PM
you wernt looking at the satnav were you?
Nah, I had already looked and seen all the information I needed. I'd love to know what that gerk was before it went all wrong. I couldn't remember there being a bump there and it wasn't me shifting down because you can here me shifting down when in the bush from 4th.
Or listening to an i pod.........................one of my pet hates!
I don't own an I pod or any other mp3 player, the SV's engine gives me all the music I need.
I don't own an I pod or any other mp3 player, the SV's engine gives me all the music I need.
Good boy!:D
markmoto
28-04-08, 10:32 PM
i think on the first corner you wernt committed to the corner got abit destracted by the car etc, on the second one the bike certainly looked like it got abit upset by a bumpin the road of sumthin which unsettled you and you sat the bike up. The third one dont know what the hell that was all about lol. Definately need to practice your cornering though you wont always get away with those..
markmoto
28-04-08, 10:33 PM
Ipods on a bike FFS like you say the engine should be all the music you need, personaly i think its dangerous as it takes away one of the senses and is destracting.
markmoto
28-04-08, 10:35 PM
just a suggestion but i think you would benefit grately from a novice trackday to get mroe acustomed to cornering on your bike.
just a suggestion but i think you would benefit grately from a novice trackday to get mroe acustomed to cornering on your bike.
+1 The bike was nowhere close to being 'setup' for those bends. The first one could have been taken no bother, likely the car distracted you. If you dont lean it down though it wont turn. Problem is is that if you hesitate without commiting then you are eating up the distance to the corner.
On the second one, I was wondering if you even moved the bars to be honest. If it was loose gravel though then you are asking for trouble.
Get some practice on a track before you hurt yourself.
Seggons
28-04-08, 10:59 PM
Hmm I know this is going to sound really defensive, but it's not meant to be in anyway, shape or form. I just find it hard that people are judging my cornering techniques on a video that I don't even lean on. I knew all 3 times I was going to run wide but I didn't know by how much. The last thing I wanted to do was lean over the bike while braking. :D
What I'll do tomorrow is I'll upload the video of me, earlier in that day on the road of bones. Then I'll then be a lot happier if you still all said that I still need to lean the bike because at least you have something proper to judge. ;)
Hmm I know this is going to sound really defensive, but it's not meant to be in anyway, shape or form. I just find it hard that people are judging my cornering techniques on a video that I don't even lean on. I knew all 3 times I was going to run wide but I didn't know by how much. The last thing I wanted to do was lean over the bike while braking. :D
What I'll do tomorrow is I'll upload the video of me, earlier in that day on the road of bones. Then I'll then be a lot happier if you still all said that I still need to lean the bike because at least you have something proper to judge. ;)
Not meaning to sound negative either, just constructive. From what you've just said its like you've decided that the bike wont go around the bend before you got there, thats partly why you might go straight on. On that first corner you would have easily made it, and at a much higher speed too believe me.
You can corner on the brakes, just not hard on the brakes. In the case of corner number 1 you were obviously lucky because you had run off to get away with it. However, you need to decide when to turn in. Once decided ease off the brakes and lean it over. 99% of the time the bike will take the corner no problem, its teh rider that decides it cant.
yorkie_chris
28-04-08, 11:30 PM
Whoops...
More practice and maybe read up on some observation tehniques, did seem like you were looking ahead rather than round. I was pretty bad for this, that and not putting any power on round corners which just unsettled it.
That and just keep reminding yourself "the bike's faster than me"
Also if you're going to run wide, then surely if it's a wall rather than a nice cuddly hedge, you're better off going into it at an angle...
I've seen someone go in far too hot before and end up with the tyre on the kerb and that's the only thing that's kept them out of a ditch.
Suppose it's better IMO to fight it out and try get round than bottle it and slam the anchors on.
Sideshow#36
28-04-08, 11:32 PM
Definately get yourself on a few trackdays or start doing some advanced riding. You were going easily slow enough to make the corners but as it has pointed out already your helmet kept looking forward and not through the bend. Fair play for sticking the video up though. DOH!!!
petevtwin650
29-04-08, 07:42 AM
Tut,tut Seggons.
Most of us have done that I'm sure.
I think you're better than that. :o
Another tip is always be in a low enough gear to allow you to accelerate smoothly but also give you some engine braking should you need to back off. I appreciate you have a restricted bike so the rev range is limited. Also the rear brake, used carefully, will tighten up your line. But you've got to be attacking the bend first.
Also always be wary of following a bike, as they may know the road intimately and even if they are on a CG125, local knowledge can be worth a 100 bhp, and you could end up in serious doo doo. :(
Look forward to riding with you again.:)
Take care.
I agree with the above. Your technique might be okay, but your judgment of the corners in that video is your downfall. In the last incident you stop just off the edge of the road, there's no possible way you were going too fast for it. I'd say the same goes for the first one, and possibly the second, but I think you hit something which upset you there and you certainly left the road with more speed than in the other 2.
It's rather fundamental stuff, reading the road and having confidence in the machine. Slow right down till you get those skills back (if you haven't already).
yorkie_chris
29-04-08, 09:37 AM
Another tip is always be in a low enough gear to allow you to accelerate smoothly but also give you some engine braking should you need to back off. I appreciate you have a restricted bike so the rev range is limited. Also the rear brake, used carefully, will tighten up your line. But you've got to be attacking the bend first.
You still get decent engine braking high up, just not a lot of torque. Best power is probably about 6 to 7krpm, ride it like a 2stroke and keep it there.
Brettus
29-04-08, 10:55 AM
Meh, most have posted about ability and suggestions but the first thing that struck me was the honesty and sheer balls of putting it up there, not only that, pointing it out to a forum of friends. everyone has bad days and with any luck it will help others, the notes made on the video were handy I thought. anyway, glad you made it out unscathed each time and good on you for putting it up there.
PS
I did expect to hear a heck of a lot of swearing with the bush incident, either going into or whilst pulling out (anyone sniggering now get your mind out of the gutter :P)
Warthog
29-04-08, 12:18 PM
Well kudos for putting up that video. My advice is simple:
1) Never try to keep up with somebody, just ride at your own pace.
2) You were going plenty slow enough to get round those bends, you just lack the confidence to tip it in. As someone pointed out, the last one you almost stop still on the road! This shows that you bottled out well before the bend and just sat it up. Get some quiet alone time riding, and practice going round corners and leaning going a bit quicker each time. The bike will grip, at the moment it is your mind that is making you crash.
TheStudent
29-04-08, 01:03 PM
LMAO!! Deja-vu of myself last summer i swear, only weeks after passing my test! Couple of farm roads by accident, went straight through a hedge once into an empty field, turn round, rode back out, fixed the hedge the next day. It's not clever i know but it is kinda funny to look back on! Anyway... riding quickly is a long long long learning curve, you really need to take your time!
NEVER EVER chase other bikes, because there are some seriously 5hit hot riders on the roads that have been doing that, track days etc for years, and you will come unstuck trying to keep with them!
My favourite riding ground is Buxton Road, some may have heard of it. Fantastic, after a while of getting the toe pegs down up there end of last summer I made the mistake of trying to get my knee down, like many others, did it, along with everything else! In total about £600, busted hand, leg etc etc.... You just gotta chill and let it come to you. Regarding cornering, like everyone says, just gotta be confident, if you bottle it and brake, you WILL hedge it, if you lean, you might hedge it, but you will probably get round ok, have faith in yourself, just not too much lol.
What i found most helpful to correct my riding was following a friend, someone alot more experienced.... plainly better in every way than me, improved my riding no end!
Warthog
29-04-08, 01:23 PM
LMAO!! Deja-vu of myself last summer i swear, only weeks after passing my test! Couple of farm roads by accident, went straight through a hedge once into an empty field, turn round, rode back out, fixed the hedge the next day. It's not clever i know but it is kinda funny to look back on! Anyway... riding quickly is a long long long learning curve, you really need to take your time!
NEVER EVER chase other bikes, because there are some seriously 5hit hot riders on the roads that have been doing that, track days etc for years, and you will come unstuck trying to keep with them!
My favourite riding ground is Buxton Road, some may have heard of it. Fantastic, after a while of getting the toe pegs down up there end of last summer I made the mistake of trying to get my knee down, like many others, did it, along with everything else! In total about £600, busted hand, leg etc etc.... You just gotta chill and let it come to you. Regarding cornering, like everyone says, just gotta be confident, if you bottle it and brake, you WILL hedge it, if you lean, you might hedge it, but you will probably get round ok, have faith in yourself, just not too much lol.
What i found most helpful to correct my riding was following a friend, someone alot more experienced.... plainly better in every way than me, improved my riding no end!
Good post. My riding improved a lot when I went out for a hoon with my courier friend. Just seeing the lean angles you can do gave me a lot more cinfidence in my tyres and everything. This all was the same for Dan too as following big Ape showed him that you can indeed get your kneedown in the wet!!
TheStudent
29-04-08, 01:30 PM
Good post. My riding improved a lot when I went out for a hoon with my courier friend. Just seeing the lean angles you can do gave me a lot more cinfidence in my tyres and everything. This all was the same for Dan too as following big Ape showed him that you can indeed get your kneedown in the wet!!
Never has anything been more true, one of the most difficult things i found in learning to corner was having faith in my tyres, believing as soon as you lean, they wont go from underneath you. Sure sometimes they slip a little, especially with paint, grids or mud, but most of the time as long as you're not being a fool with your speed in the conditions you are riding in, they DO come back!
But it comes with practise and confidence with everything else. Just take it easy, AND LEAN!!! Big roundabouts are good places to practise leaning (although it's also like target practise for blind drivers at times!). ;)
That made me chuckle. I bet the tree one had your heart rate going up a wee bit.
That would have been a Hamlet moment for sure. :lol:
timwilky
29-04-08, 01:37 PM
I think you need to gain confidence and experience.
Look through the bends is the easiest lesson to learn. You would appear to be somewhat target fixated. Thereafter on those country roads with lots of visabilty, use the whole road to get the best line.
But first, put the miles in at your own pace. Don't try to play catch up etc. There is something very nice to come home smiling, knowing that at no time did you have a moment yet the envelope got pushed
Full marks to you for posting. I am not going to patronise you with advice, because I think you know where you have struggled, it made for intersting watching, a refreshing change from ...'look at me with my knee down arent I cool' :D All the errors you made I reckon we have all made at some point, and we all get good days and bad days ... confidence is a wonderful thing ;)
my last bike had **** tyres and has really knocked me back on my riding
getting the sv has started to help me having trust in going around corners mainly because of the new tyres they have on them
Bluepete
29-04-08, 04:19 PM
Can you PM me six numbers between 1 and 49 for the weekend lottery you lucky *******!
You lived to learn. Good enough.
PS were those gloves issued to you or perchased by you?
markmoto
29-04-08, 05:39 PM
Can you PM me six numbers between 1 and 49 for the weekend lottery you lucky *******!
You lived to learn. Good enough.
PS were those gloves issued to you or perchased by you?
Lol :D
Flamin_Squirrel
29-04-08, 06:15 PM
As you've worked out, front brake into a corner can make the bike stand up.
The SV with its rather primitive suspension is particularly prone to this unfortunately. Using the rear brake at the same time will help prevent this. Of course on the road you really want to be braking upright, but when things like this happen you want as many options to escape as possible.
As has been suggested though, looking through the corner is the best thing you can do. Chances are the bike will make it.
As has been suggested though, looking through the corner is the best thing you can do. Chances are the bike will make it.
ride or bike mag done an artical not to long ago where they said in almost al cases of accidents on corners the bike was capable of making it easily, it was the riders error that caused the accident.
i seriously dont want to meet a corner my Kwak cant actually get arround given its cornering ability. thats ITS not mine!!
Seggons
29-04-08, 07:20 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U9iZtBkQ4fs
That should be better to judge my corner ability (or lack of). I do agree that I need to look through the corners more but apart from that I don't think I'm that bad. Maybe I'm mistaken.
TheStudent
29-04-08, 07:28 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U9iZtBkQ4fs
That should be better to judge my corner ability (or lack of). I do agree that I need to look through the corners more but apart from that I don't think I'm that bad. Maybe I'm mistaken.
I think the short sharp corners are what tests cornering ability rather than long swooping bends, but there were no hedges there so.... ;)
Blue_SV650S
29-04-08, 08:10 PM
I am impressed with the footage. I tried putting a camera on my lid once and, well basically my head evidently moves around so much (up and down as well as side to side) that you couldn't really see the road that often, it was either the clocks, the sky or the verges, with the odd glimpse of the way ahead ... after that I decided to fit it to the bike 8)
Were you trying to keep your head appropriately positioned or did it just work out like that?!!? :scratch:
Oh and do your brakes work??? ... I couldn't see the nose of the bike diving really when you hit the brakes ... I presume you did hit the brakes?!?! ;)
andyharding
29-04-08, 09:11 PM
Cheese and rice man! How long have you been riding. Don't take this the wrong way. You are either a really poor rider or you just had a bad day.
Not once did you look far enough round the corner.
You body is way to stiff to. Get you body off the side of the bike this moves the centre of gravity accross and makes the bike go round the corner easier.
Please just take it easy if your not that confident. I would hate you to become another statistic.
Seggons
29-04-08, 09:30 PM
It's not that I'm not confident in my riding because I am very confident in my style of riding. But that's the problem because my riding style is far from the best I know that.
I've been riding for almost 2 years, but only 7 months of that with the SV so I've still got mountains to learn.
The camera doesn't show it very well at all but my body was off the set when going round them bends. I've also got to adjust my feet because it's the arch of my foot on the pegs and not the balls of my feet. Lots to learn and lots of time to learn it.
The next trip I do will be on fresh BT021's so that will boost my confidence no end. I'm taking all the comments on board to.
Brettus
30-04-08, 08:21 AM
Out of interest (and sorry for the off topic) but what camera were you using?
Warthog
30-04-08, 11:43 AM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U9iZtBkQ4fs
That should be better to judge my corner ability (or lack of). I do agree that I need to look through the corners more but apart from that I don't think I'm that bad. Maybe I'm mistaken.
In all honesty, that video had zero challenging bends! The few you went round you cut the corner so they were practically straight anyway. By the way, I personally never cut corners, I think it is a terrible habit inviting a severe accident at some point. I do know some extremely good riders that do do it so it is obviously a personal riding preference. I just see my lane as the whole road, and go as fast as I can whithin my own road.
beaniebikerbabe
30-04-08, 11:53 AM
Before I reply here was the route I was on: http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=93564
After adapting it it come to a total of 197 miles of pure riding with no stops.
It didn't help that the tire was just above the legal limit.
Concentration levels dropped and so to did my confidence when getting the bike setup so I never really committed myself to the bend.
It was around the Ramsey area
Totally agree. But I'm sure no matter how experienced or how many courses you've been on it doesn't make a person immune to things like this. Normally if there are people are about I take a whole different attitude to my riding.
Most of the time I look around the bends, but when you get into those situations the concentration moves to braking and keeping the wheels from locking.
If you watch the video very slowly you will see just before hitting the bush I managed to lock the rear wheel, kick the rear to the right so I went slightly side on and missed the main part.
I felt like I was leaning the bike over enough because I got my toe down once and covered 95% of the extremely squared off tire.
Just something I'll put down to experience and learn from.
hey thats the main thing u r ok and u learnt from it, we all make mistakes m8
Blue_SV650S
30-04-08, 11:55 AM
In all honesty, that video had zero challenging bends! The few you went round you cut the corner so they were practically straight anyway. By the way, I personally never cut corners, I think it is a terrible habit inviting a severe accident at some point. I do know some extremely good riders that do do it so it is obviously a personal riding preference. I just see my lane as the whole road, and go as fast as I can whithin my own road.
I dunno, I did cringe when I saw him use all the road, but that is only because I don't have any roads that open round here, with blind bends it'd be suicide to do that and I only have blond bends ...
On his roads, the way ahead was blatantly clear and visibility was excelent (i.e. no hedgerows or anything, it was perfectly flat too, so perfect view of oncoming traffic, or lack thereof ;)) ... so I don't see a problem with what he did there 8) ... but 3 of the same kinds of mistake on the same ride ... WTF?!!? :D ... I like his comment at the end of the vid relating to just that mind ;)
I also cringed as he was missing the apexes, but that is a different observation :D
plowsie
30-04-08, 11:57 AM
my last bike had **** tyres and has really knocked me back on my riding
Currently on my bike I have a bald D207 rear (shocking in the wet apparently) and a conti road attack that is going through on the right shoulder on the tyre, makes for interesting riding to say the least in the wet. In the dry I am not bothered they feel fine, just when you have a slight front end slide you think ahh yes better change that.
Seggons, thumbs up to you for posting and kept going. Get some miles in and build your pace slowly, your trying too hard at the moment, get your bike set up to you, go out, bimble, don't hoon, work on your vision first. See the road ahead not the road your on. Good example was to watch that bike in the first clip thats about where you want to be looking. Your tyres will cope with corners in the dry, don't lose faith in them, put it like this, until your pegs are grinding (provided you have right pressures and decent tread) your tyres will cope. Sit your bum off a little bit for a corner, drop your elbow in a bit maybe.
If you like I am willing to meet up and help you out mate. Me and you, or if you like with others. Up to you, offer is there :)
Currently on my bike I have a bald D207 rear (shocking in the wet apparently) and a conti road attack that is going through on the right shoulder on the tyre, makes for interesting riding to say the least in the wet. In the dry I am not bothered they feel fine, just when you have a slight front end slide you think ahh yes better change that.
Seggons, thumbs up to you for posting and kept going. Get some miles in and build your pace slowly, your trying too hard at the moment, get your bike set up to you, go out, bimble, don't hoon, work on your vision first. See the road ahead not the road your on. Good example was to watch that bike in the first clip thats about where you want to be looking. Your tyres will cope with corners in the dry, don't lose faith in them, put it like this, until your pegs are grinding (provided you have right pressures and decent tread) your tyres will cope. Sit your bum off a little bit for a corner, drop your elbow in a bit maybe.
If you like I am willing to meet up and help you out mate. Me and you, or if you like with others. Up to you, offer is there :)
I think you should change careers. Professional riding coach to the Moto GP boys. :wink:
Blue_SV650S
30-04-08, 12:14 PM
Currently on my bike I have a bald D207 rear (shocking in the wet apparently) and a conti road attack that is going through on the right shoulder on the tyre, makes for interesting riding to say the least in the wet. In the dry I am not bothered they feel fine, just when you have a slight front end slide you think ahh yes better change that.
I do the same, I run any old combination of tyre on my roadibke, even the wrong sizes, I simply don't care, you just ride accordingly. Have to admit I do tend to run mine at legal tread limits though, not that I care about grip, but I do care about points in my licence!! ;)
However when all is said and done, I do also appreciate that if one doesn't have confidence in how their tyres will perform it is going to knock their confidence.
I find Michelins extremely unpredictable tyres when cold, I therefore steer away from them (if you pardon the pun!! :D) as I don't like tyres I can't predict how they will be have (your tyres might be plops in the wet, but you KNOW they are and what they will/wont do at any given point ... Michelins will be fine on one pass, spit you off in the next!! :shock:).
plowsie
30-04-08, 01:45 PM
I think you should change careers. Professional riding coach to the Moto GP boys. :wink:
Bet you could teach me a thing or two (steady on) :notworthy:
Made me smile on the second piece of footage, your words were something along the lines of this will show you how I can really corner ..... and then the first 52 seconds was a long straight! Made me smile. :D
If you are happy for constructive critisism/comments I would like to just suggest that instead of cutting the corner (I know you can see because you are on an open road, but for the sake of practice ....) when you are taking a right hander, put yourself to the left of the road ....so that in theory if you were unable to see round the corner, you would give yourself the best view of what is approaching ... and then also when taking a left hand corner, put yourself to right of your lane (on the middle white lines) also giving you better view of whats ahead. This also gives you more chance of finding the apex.
Bet you could teach me a thing or two (steady on) :notworthy:
Hell no. Your the one that can ride over your own body parts and not fall off. Don't think even Casy Stoner or Valentino Rossi can do that.
plowsie
30-04-08, 03:03 PM
Hell no. Your the one that can ride over your own body parts and not fall off. Don't think even Casy Stoner or Valentino Rossi can do that.
You take the **** out of peeps on a Dullesville mate ;)
And the fact that you come back from injuries such as yours, takes balls mate.
PointyPete
30-04-08, 06:38 PM
when you are taking a right hander, put yourself to the left of the road ....so that in theory if you were unable to see round the corner
On one of my favourite roads I regularly pass a memorial to a guy around my age who lost his head on his SV leaning across the white line, I think the constant reminders may have saved me a couple of times.
Seggons, I think I can relate to the state of mind that causes this kind of running wide. Some days last year when I'd not been riding for long I came close to doing the same. I knew exactly what not to do (brake whilst turning) but my mind was telling me I wasn't going to make it round the bend, despite what the speedo said. Most of the time now, having been riding for longer my confidence is ok, but when I do panic I just force myself to roll on and resist the temptation to brake. The real answer of course, is if your riding is causing you to panic, you're doing something wrong.
I don't wish to patronise, if that's how this post comes over, I'm sorry. I've not been riding for long enough to tell anyone else how to do it.
Seggons
30-04-08, 06:38 PM
Out of interest (and sorry for the off topic) but what camera were you using?
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/single-bike-camera-kit.htm + the 520tvl camera.
If you like I am willing to meet up and help you out mate. Me and you, or if you like with others. Up to you, offer is there :)
Thanks for the offer, I'll bear it in mind. The chances are I'll see you on the rideout your organising.
Made me smile on the second piece of footage, your words were something along the lines of this will show you how I can really corner ..... and then the first 52 seconds was a long straight! Made me smile. :D
hahaha I see what you mean, good spot. ;)
Seggons
30-04-08, 06:47 PM
Seggons, I think I can relate to the state of mind that causes this kind of running wide. Some days last year when I'd not been riding for long I came close to doing the same. I knew exactly what not to do (brake whilst turning) but my mind was telling me I wasn't going to make it round the bend, despite what the speedo said. Most of the time now, having been riding for longer my confidence is ok, but when I do panic I just force myself to roll on and resist the temptation to brake. The real answer of course, is if your riding is causing you to panic, you're doing something wrong.
That is exactly my current riding style.
jumjum_0214
01-05-08, 07:40 AM
Please slow it all down and keep practising :-)
Hi... I followed a link from another forum to here (your video is being discussed on numerous forums). I tried to post some links to your YouTube page but the poxy anti-spam system there binned the posts...
Have you already signed up for some training?
If not, try one of these. Today or tomorrow. There may not be a next day.
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/Bikesafe/Bikesafe2000/england/Norfolk/norfolk.html
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/Bikesafe/cambridgeshire.html
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/Bikesafe/suffolk/suffolk.htm
In the meantime, read/watch these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B8IdTq3_3WI
And these...
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=akcdioKmRk8C&pg=PA50&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=0_0&sig=SEH5VUkQMJ45fpFPIoCKEZjoiAI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykNYvPZOc0
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZhLuJLCfZs&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb2gZVuoNU4
Still need convincing that you need some training? As I hinted, your video is being discussed on a number of other forums.
The most succinct comment I've read is from this thread...
http://www.superbike.co.uk/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28064&page=0&vc=1
'Public Transport required, I think'.
See also:
http://www.cadam.org/forum/showthread.php?t=537
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235895
Also, do you speak Slovak? From the international jury:
http://motoride.sk/?P=phorum&tema=zabava&tid=21168
Blue_SV650S
17-06-08, 08:37 AM
I am sure you have the guys best interests at heart ... but reading some of the posts, meeeeeowwwwwwww :cat: :shock: :D
metalmonkey
17-06-08, 09:18 AM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U9iZtBkQ4fs
That should be better to judge my corner ability (or lack of). I do agree that I need to look through the corners more but apart from that I don't think I'm that bad. Maybe I'm mistaken.
Hey dude i watched this second video, first off I am newbie as well I have had my SV less than year. Next I think quite a lot of those commets on the other site were just plain nasty, so don't worry about it.
Mate do not be cutting corners like that.....I went to a rather nasty accident were a scooter did the same he cut the corner. The rider was so damed lucky not to be run over. The bike got wedge under a parked car and between the car it hit. The rider went to O/S off the vehicle more luck than judgement. Please don't end like this rider did, in the back of an amblance.
As the others said keep riding and enjoying riding thats why we do it. Next do a bike safe course it will help you no end. I'm doing one next week.
Also where do you live in beds? Like others said I'm happy to ride with you, but I don't have enough experince to help with your riding.
It will come with time and praticse, keep riding and enjoying it:D
21QUEST
17-06-08, 09:48 AM
Hi... I followed a link from another forum to here (your video is being discussed on numerous forums). I tried to post some links to your YouTube page but the poxy anti-spam system there binned the posts...
Have you already signed up for some training?
If not, try one of these. Today or tomorrow. There may not be a next day.
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/Bikesafe/Bikesafe2000/england/Norfolk/norfolk.html
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/Bikesafe/cambridgeshire.html
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/Bikesafe/suffolk/suffolk.htm
In the meantime, read/watch these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B8IdTq3_3WI
And these...
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=akcdioKmRk8C&pg=PA50&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=0_0&sig=SEH5VUkQMJ45fpFPIoCKEZjoiAI
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykNYvPZOc0
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZhLuJLCfZs&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb2gZVuoNU4
Still need convincing that you need some training? As I hinted, your video is being discussed on a number of other forums.
The most succinct comment I've read is from this thread...
http://www.superbike.co.uk/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28064&page=0&vc=1
'Public Transport required, I think'.
See also:
http://www.cadam.org/forum/showthread.php?t=537
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235895
Also, do you speak Slovak? From the international jury:
http://motoride.sk/?P=phorum&tema=zabava&tid=21168
You probably mean well but if I were the OP, I'll have only two words for most of the folk commenting on the links you have put up.....first letter of first word is 'F' and last letter of second word is 'F'.
Oh and your post comes across very patronising as well.
Cheers
Ben
plowsie
17-06-08, 09:58 AM
I think Seggons has actually been out riding a lot recently, I know of two rideouts that I have seen his name on the attendees list. Kwh your input is not needed, I think you have come along to put it a little bit more in Seggons's face, and as said above by the mighty Ben I would tell them all to kn0b off(in a ruder fashion)!
I think Seggons has actually been out riding a lot recently, I know of two rideouts that I have seen his name on the attendees list.
Yep, we've ridden with him a couple of times, and there was nothing wrong with his riding that we saw.
DoubleD
17-06-08, 10:07 AM
I too have been on a rideout with Seggons and I could see nothing wrong either.
I'm not an SV650 rider or a member of this community, I'm just a passing stranger. But with respect, this thread isn't forceful enough if it hasn't persuaded the original poster to get himself some training as a matter of extreme urgency. Preferably before he rides the bike again.
If there had been say a concrete drainage channel or a bit of farm machinery between him and the hedge where he went straight on in that gentle right hand bend, this would be a condolence thread. And if you go straight on at three right-handers in one ride, and don't hit any pedestrians, high kerbs, walls or road furniture, then you have been extraordinarily lucky.
This is compounded by the fact that the OP clearly doesn't understand why this happened, and is blaming all sorts of things that have nothing to do with the matter and not the actual causes, gross deficiencies in his riding skills. Which means that he is not able to learn from the mistakes on his own and fix them because he doesn't know enough to know that they are mistakes...
See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL
...so he is doomed to repeat them. And he will surely die of it sooner rather than later if he does.
It would be nicer for his friends to tell him gently, cajole him, and give him a year or so to get used to the idea that he needs to sort some training, sure, but he won't live that long. I'd have thought that every ride he survives unscathed is a triumph of fortune over probability and there is no way he will survive the summer.
:reaper:
Oh, and to the OP, I'd go and kick the bloke you paid to teach you to ride in the ******** right now, because you won't be able to after he has killed you.
By the way, I'm only posting here at all because I reckon I spotted a stranger on the internet who is living on borrowed time without realising and I thought it would be nice if somebody stopped him killing himself. I have no axe to grind with the OP, don't even know the first thing about him. Except that he's going to die on a motorcycle very soon unless he gets some help.
I cant see why that happend on the second time, you didnt seem to attempt to go around the corner?
thats what i thought
you wernt looking at the satnav were you?:smt043
Or listening to an i pod.........................one of my pet hates! i like my mp3 player
i see this was started a while ago, you may have been pushing yourself to hard?
seemed ok in north wales though, (in my mirriors of course)
yorkie_chris
17-06-08, 10:24 AM
You're a right patronising ar$e, aren't you.
plowsie
17-06-08, 10:25 AM
I'm not an SV650 rider or a member of this community, I'm just a passing stranger. But with respect, this thread isn't forceful enough if it hasn't persuaded the original poster to get himself some training as a matter of extreme urgency. Preferably before he rides the bike again.
If there had been say a concrete drainage channel or a bit of farm machinery between him and the hedge where he went straight on in that gentle right hand bend, this would be a condolence thread. And if you go straight on at three right-handers in one ride, and don't hit any pedestrians, high kerbs, walls or road furniture, then you have been extraordinarily lucky.
This is compounded by the fact that the OP clearly doesn't understand why this happened, and is blaming all sorts of things that have nothing to do with the matter and not the actual causes, gross deficiencies in his riding skills. Which means that he is not able to learn from the mistakes on his own and fix them because he doesn't know enough to know that they are mistakes...
See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL
...so he is doomed to repeat them. And he will surely die of it sooner rather than later if he does.
It would be nicer for his friends to tell him gently, cajole him, and give him a year or so to get used to the idea that he needs to sort some training, sure, but he won't live that long. I'd have thought that every ride he survives unscathed is a triumph of fortune over probability and there is no way he will survive the summer.
:reaper:
Oh, and to the OP, I'd go and kick the bloke you paid to teach you to ride in the ******** right now, because you won't be able to after he has killed you.
By the way, I'm only posting here at all because I reckon I spotted a stranger on the internet who is living on borrowed time without realising and I thought it would be nice if somebody stopped him killing himself. I have no axe to grind with the OP, don't even know the first thing about him. Except that he's going to die on a motorcycle very soon unless he gets some help.
Talk about looking at things the bad way. As said by others above your second post, people have ridden with him and have said that he is doing fine. From the videos he looks good too.
I don't understand why you are so destined that he will bloody die lol.
:smt064
yorkie_chris
17-06-08, 10:28 AM
I don't understand why you are so destined that he will bloody die lol.
:smt064
Because he's never made a mistake, so knows best of course :-P
I think you have come along to put it a little bit more in Seggons's face
Yep, well spotted.
No, I'm not a troll.
Yes, I really do think he is going to kill himself soon. No, I'm not alone - there seems to be a consensus out there on the internet that he won't survive very long at all if he carries on riding the way he is.
I don't think he can fix what is wrong with his riding on his own, certainly not before the grim reaper catches up with him, hence coming here shouting the odds about him getting some training right now.
For all I know he's a great bloke in every other respect, and you'd be right if you said that him killing himself or not on a bike is none of my business strictly speaking, but... well... would you say nothing if you thought you saw a stranger about to do something suicidally stupid in front of you?
Anyway, that's me done.
plowsie
17-06-08, 10:30 AM
Because he's never made a mistake, so knows best of course :-P
See his blog, he has ;)
21QUEST
17-06-08, 10:31 AM
I'm not an SV650 rider or a member of this community, I'm just a passing stranger. But with respect, this thread isn't forceful enough if it hasn't persuaded the original poster to get himself some training as a matter of extreme urgency. Preferably before he rides the bike again.
If there had been say a concrete drainage channel or a bit of farm machinery between him and the hedge where he went straight on in that gentle right hand bend, this would be a condolence thread. And if you go straight on at three right-handers in one ride, and don't hit any pedestrians, high kerbs, walls or road furniture, then you have been extraordinarily lucky.
This is compounded by the fact that the OP clearly doesn't understand why this happened, and is blaming all sorts of things that have nothing to do with the matter and not the actual causes, gross deficiencies in his riding skills. Which means that he is not able to learn from the mistakes on his own and fix them because he doesn't know enough to know that they are mistakes...
See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL
...so he is doomed to repeat them. And he will surely die of it sooner rather than later if he does.
It would be nicer for his friends to tell him gently, cajole him, and give him a year or so to get used to the idea that he needs to sort some training, sure, but he won't live that long. I'd have thought that every ride he survives unscathed is a triumph of fortune over probability and there is no way he will survive the summer.
:reaper:
Oh, and to the OP, I'd go and kick the bloke you paid to teach you to ride in the ******** right now, because you won't be able to after he has killed you.
By the way, I'm only posting here at all because I reckon I spotted a stranger on the internet who is living on borrowed time without realising and I thought it would be nice if somebody stopped him killing himself. I have no axe to grind with the OP, don't even know the first thing about him. Except that he's going to die on a motorcycle very soon unless he gets some help.
....and at this point, if I were the OP, I'll be saying/asking all the folks 'spurting', "why do you give a fook if I live long or dies old, mister?". Ending with, "Look mister, I don't give a fook about you opinion but......Ta muchly" ;)
Ben
yorkie_chris
17-06-08, 10:33 AM
Yes, I really do think he is going to kill himself soon. No, I'm not alone - there seems to be a consensus out there on the internet that he won't survive very long at all if he carries on riding the way he is.
The first off road trip was caused by trying to catch up with someone riding a lot faster was it not. That says to me stop trying so hard, back off to a speed more in line with your own abilities.
If you want to rag the balls off your bike then build up to that slowly.
I do not agree that he should continue to push that hard, because that always ends in tears. But just easing off a little would be fine.
Because he's never made a mistake, so knows best of course :-P
If only that were true.
I had one day at the start of my riding career over a decade ago where I crashed two different bikes through gross incompetence, one on the road and one on the track. That saved my life because it convinced me that I didn't know WTF I was doing, and that I would kill myself if I didn't get a clue quickly. So I started reading, taking formal and informal training opportunities, doing a course with plod that was the precursor of Bikesafe, etc etc...
Edit: http://www.cix.co.uk/~kwh/page15.htm
(And as you can see, at the time I posted that to CiX I didn't think it was my fault either - fortunately later quiet reflection allowed me to realise that crashing all on your own twice in one day isn't usually anybody's fault but your own...)
Alpinestarhero
17-06-08, 10:40 AM
I watched the video a few times; I applaude how (whoever the rider was, i forgot now and cant be bothered to go back to find out....student...) the rider LOCKED the front wheel (it tucked, I'm certain) and managed to not come off. Ok, he ended up in a bush, and I would have loved to seen how he got back out, BUT the point remains that he isable to interpret the information being fed to him through his controls to be able to avoid the crash caused by the lock-up.
If only there was a long road leading yp to a statly home that he could have shot up, rather than grass and a bush :D
Its all experiance, and no matter how many training days and courses you go on, you can't ever see into the future and know before when something like this will happen. You just have to live it, as is where, and learn from mistakes.
Matt
You're a right patronising ar$e, aren't you.
who?
yorkie_chris
17-06-08, 10:45 AM
who?
not you, the other dude
:shock: my gods!!
Get a track day in and lean it the safe way.
21QUEST
17-06-08, 11:01 AM
:shock: my gods!!
Get a track day in and lean it the safe way.
...and the most important aspect of ones riding is 'leaning' :rolleyes:
Ben
not you, the other dude
That's cool.
If you are right, this time next year you and the OP will be able to point and laugh at me.
If I am right, you get to go to the OP's funeral before the end of the summer.
Do you feel lucky?
A Bikesafe course costs between £30 and £50.
Cheaper than an economy funeral.
Cheaper even than a floral tribute in the shape of 'sv650.org'.
Rather than calling me a patronising tosser, you lot could be clubbing together, having a whip round and booking the OP on a Bikesafe course in his part of the world.
21QUEST
17-06-08, 11:26 AM
That's cool.
If you are right, this time next year you and the OP will be able to point and laugh at me.
If I am right, you get to go to the OP's funeral before the end of the summer.
Do you feel lucky?
A Bikesafe course costs between £30 and £50.
Cheaper than an economy funeral.
Cheaper even than a floral tribute in the shape of 'sv650.org'.
Rather than calling me a patronising tosser, you lot could be clubbing together, having a whip round and booking the OP on a Bikesafe course in his part of the world.
Since we are playing for high stakes now, how about I start taking bets, on who(you or the OP) stays alive longer....do you feel lucky ;)
Ben
yorkie_chris
17-06-08, 11:28 AM
The content of your posts makes sense, and I've never said that extra training is a bad thing, it's the general tone of your posts that makes you sound like an ar$e.
The content of your posts makes sense, and I've never said that extra training is a bad thing, it's the general tone of your posts that makes you sound like an ar$e.
So sue me.
plowsie
17-06-08, 11:54 AM
Since we are playing for high stakes now, how about I start taking bets, on who(you or the OP) stays alive longer....do you feel lucky ;)
Ben
I'll put £10 down that Seggons stays alive after the summer :)
yorkie_chris
17-06-08, 11:58 AM
I'll put £10 down that Seggons stays alive after the summer :)
Is this bike accidents only?
I'll put £10 down that Seggons stays alive after the summer :)
Just to get that clear, you would rather bet £10 that the OP survives the summer without any remedial training, than donate the same £10 towards getting him that remedial training right now?
Jesus, I'm glad I don't know him now! He must be a right tosser for you to be happy to treat him like that!
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