First Trackday

[imaleon]

I was at Snetterton on the 19th of May for my first track day, was a little cold, but clear skies lead to an outstanding day! I loved every single bit of it, apart from when some wan ker tried to outbrake me into the first right hander forcing me VERY wide. The SV was a little slow for the track, but I easily made up ground on breaking and in the corners, managed to lap at the same time or even faster than the track 600s and a couple 750s.

The power of the little twin was great for overtaking the IL4s coming out of corners, I was amazed how little torque some of the 600ss seem to have. Have come to the conclusion that I need something a tad faster, so now I'm looking at buying myself a cbr. Also I'm trying to organise Pembrey circuit sometime in June. Has anyone been on it with the SV? If so how was it?

[yorkie_chris]

The power of the little twin was great for overtaking the IL4s coming out of corners, I was amazed how crap some riders are at putting it in the right gear.

HTH :-P

Glad you had fun.

[northwind]

I just did one on monday, have to admit it's the first time I've ever wanted more power than my SV can manage... Trackdays are ACE. And the SV can really surprise people. It's great fun being on the beginner/commuter bike when you pass a proper bike :D

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Have come to the conclusion that I need something a tad faster...

You don't. Snetterton is just a fast track.

[G]

Not a fan of snetterton myself, next to no left handers and long straights make it abit boring to be honest, If you think its good get yourself to somewhere like cadwell or oulton park where the SV really is suited.

[carty]

Seconded what Yorkie_Chris said. That would def be peeps not using the correct gear through the corner.

Glad you had fun, nice pics too - that bellypan looks a bit close to the ground though?!

[chris8886]

looks like you got your knee down or at least VERY nearly did on your first track day!! did you go out with one of the instructors?

[imaleon]

Yeh I got it down a few times, but only on the right side. Yeah I went out with an instructor, he gave me really good advice and quite a lot of praise which I was happy about.

I think I'm beginning to outgrow the SV, and I believe I've reached the bikes potential (having scraped the belly pan & pegs on the road) having chewed up my tyres right to the edge. And whenever I go on ride outs with my mates, they're all on 600s or 1000s so they leave me for dead when they pin it on the straights.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I think I'm beginning to outgrow the SV, and I believe I've reached the bikes potential.

I'd bet large sums of money you haven't.

[G]

I'd bet large sums of money you haven't.


He probably means he has outgrown his potential with the bike.

And could go quicker, easier on a different bike. Sure a little more can probably be squeezed from the sv and it can probably go quicker with a different rider, but he can go quicker, safer, on a different bike.

[imaleon]

I'd bet large sums of money you haven't.

I'll take you up on that bet. If a track instructor recommended that I would improve a lot faster on a quicker bike, and if I was on my footpegs around nearly every corner than I think I need a faster bike.......


Graemepaterson - Thank you, you explained it much clearer

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I'll take you up on that bet. If a track instructor recommended that I would improve a lot faster on a quicker bike, and if I was on my footpegs around nearly every corner than I think I need a faster bike.......


Graemepaterson - Thank you, you explained it much clearer

So you don't get on with the SV on track as well as you might on another bike. That's not the same as out growing it.

Cash will be fine :)

[imaleon]

So you don't get on with the SV on track as well as you might on another bike. That's not the same as out growing it.

Cash will be fine :)

No I do, because I was scraping the footpegs constantly. With an SV for example you can't brake extremely late into corners compared to other bikes unless you want to bare the risk of possibly crashing! Simply because the SV has cheaper components to it. I was on the new Buell 1125 the other day, and I was amazed by the breaking capabilities. I'm not saying I'm the best biker out there, or that the SV is crap; but I think for me to continue improving my biking and to minimise the danger as much as possible I need a faster bike. Not just in terms of speed but braking and handling. So I have exceeded the potential of the bike.

Make a cheque payable to winner ;)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

No I do, because I was scraping the footpegs constantly. With an SV for example you can't brake extremely late into corners compared to other bikes unless you want to bare the risk of possibly crashing!

Get rearsets then. At any rate, the lions share of time you can gain is into and out of corners, not at the apex, so ground clearance is no excuse.

The cheap suspension may well make you feel like you can't brake late, and having the confidence is important so I understand that (which is why I've got a GSXR front end on my SV track bike). But you CAN brake late. Just watch Blue_SV650S track videos.

So, if you're not comfortable on the SV and want to change that's understandable but my point remains valid - it isn't the bike that's stopping you going faster.

[Zombie Jesus]

I think what other people are saying is that the 1-2 seconds you're losing per lap on power is a lot smaller to the time you'll be loosing elsewhere via braking points and corner entry speed etc. Never rode my SV at a track but you're probably right that a SS bike is more confidence inspiring when pushing for an extra 5% in a corner.

I'm off to pembrey in june if you're interested see here: http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=110667. On a friday because it is fully booked the saturday after.

[imaleon]

Get rearsets then. At any rate, the lions share of time you can gain is into and out of corners, not at the apex, so ground clearance is no excuse.

The cheap suspension may well make you feel like you can't brake late, and having the confidence is important so I understand that (which is why I've got a GSXR front end on my SV track bike). But you CAN brake late. Just watch Blue_SV650S track videos.

So, if you're not comfortable on the SV and want to change that's understandable but my point remains valid - it isn't the bike that's stopping you going faster.

This is the point, I'm not prepared to fork out loads of money switching stuff around, I may as well buy a new bike. I am very comfortable on the SV, and if I were going any faster than it would be getting dangerous. Every single person can go a little bit faster on any bike; but to it safely and where you are actually improving is a different story, hence exceeded the potential of the bike.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

This is the point, I'm not prepared to fork out loads of money switching stuff around, I may as well buy a new bike. I am very comfortable on the SV, and if I were going any faster than it would be getting dangerous. Every single person can go a little bit faster on any bike; but to it safely and where you are actually improving is a different story, hence exceeded the potential of the bike.

Whatever. Look forward to see you blitzing the fast group on your new 600 :rolleyes:

[imaleon]

Whatever. Look forward to see you blitzing the fast group on your new 600 :rolleyes:

Some people just don't listen....

[G]

Whatever. Look forward to see you blitzing the fast group on your new 600 :rolleyes:

I know its hard having banter with you flamin_squirrel from previous experience and its sometimes a laugh.

But the point is he would be 'potentialy' beable to blitz the fast group quicker and more safely on a ss600 than he ever would on a standard sv650, and you cant deny that.

He may not have reached the FULL potential of the standard sv, but to progress further he may be on the very edge of its limits, which is pointless and could potentialy end in pain.

To be fair I dont know the guy, I dont know how he rides, no one does. Although this being your first trackday ever I can appreciate why some people may struggle to understand you thinking you cant get anymore from the bike.

[adw]

lol! A better handling bike will give you more confidence hence you'll go quicker. Same with better tyres. A good 50% is in the mind but having a great handling, fast bike helps a lot. The sv is a streetbike, not a fantastic track tool.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

But the point is he would be 'potentialy' beable to blitz the fast group quicker and more safely on a ss600 than he ever would on a standard sv650, and you cant deny that.

I dont deny it, I completely agree, which is why I said if he's not feeling comfortable on the SV then something that handles better would be helpful and would allow him to go faster.

But apparently, after just 1 track day and despite apprently being happy on the SV, that's what's holding him back (in the novice group). That's just laughable.

[imaleon]

[quote=To be fair I dont know the guy, I dont know how he rides, no one does. Although this being your first trackday ever I can appreciate why some people may struggle to understand you thinking you cant get anymore from the bike.[/quote]

I can understand why people would be skeptical about me saying I need a different bike after my first bike track day. I am competent on the road, both in my car and on my bike, and sometimes too quick for other road users who aren't expecting it. Thats the main reason why I thought I'd ease off on the road and go on the track instead. Ever since getting my belly pan down on the cat and fiddle run I've begin to doubt whether the SV is the safest bike to ride near/at the limit.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I can understand why people would be skeptical about me saying I need a different bike after my first bike track day. I am competent on the road, both in my car and on my bike, and sometimes too quick for other road users who aren't expecting it. Thats the main reason why I thought I'd ease off on the road and go on the track instead. Ever since getting my belly pan down on the cat and fiddle run I've begin to doubt whether the SV is the safest bike to ride near/at the limit.

You really do sound like the archetypal over confident teenager who needs to calm down.

[imaleon]

But apparently, after just 1 track day and despite apprently being happy on the SV, that's what's holding him back (in the novice group). That's just laughable.

Why was I the only person with an SV then? Do you think that is a coincidence?? And you can ride just as fast on the road too, or had you forgotten that? As mentioned before, you don't know how I ride; and if an instructor (who has a hell of a lot more experience than you) has said I need something faster to improve; then I'll take his advice over yours any day of the week.

[imaleon]

You really do sound like the archetypal over confident teenager who needs to calm down.
Im not a teenager. You sound like a 60yr old man who doesn't understand that age has no bearing on ability!

[imaleon]

Does anyone know what they're db level is on their exhaust? I have a remus can, and I don't think it has baffles.....or I don't have them. I was really scared that I wasn't going to pass the noise level.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Why was I the only person with an SV then? Do you think that is a coincidence?? And you can ride just as fast on the road too, or had you forgotten that? As mentioned before, you don't know how I ride; and if an instructor (who has a hell of a lot more experience than you) has said I need something faster to improve; then I'll take his advice over yours any day of the week.

Im not a teenager. You sound like a 60yr old man who doesn't understand that age has no bearing on ability!

Ok then! Enjoy your 600. The one you reckon has less torque than an SV :smt081

[imaleon]

Yeh either 2007 cbr600rr or the triumph 675, both have improved torque levels

[northwind]

You really do sound like the archetypal over confident teenager who needs to calm down.

And you sound like an internet know-it-all. No offence, it takes one to know one ;)

[leatherpatches]

I suspect he will go quicker on a SS600 than on his SV. If he wants quicker, then that's fine.

Doesn't make the SV a crap bike, neither does it make him a Rossi clone. A little less defensiveness of the SV from some on this forum might be a good idea. It's a superb bike, but it's not going to be as track focussed as some of the other bikes mentioned.

If the guy has done a trackday, enjoyed it and wants to buy a more track focussed machine, then that's good news, in my opinion. I think the use of the phrase 'outgrown' is what has caused this debate. Perhaps a poor choice of words as it implies his ability has outgrown the bike. I think he probably meant that his needs rather than his skill have outgrown what the SV has to offer. Switched emphasis is probably better.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

And you sound like an internet know-it-all. No offence, it takes one to know one ;)

None taken ;)

I suspect he will go quicker on a SS600 than on his SV.

So do I, but that won't be because he was on the limit of what the SV could do.

Doesn't make the SV a crap bike, neither does it make him a Rossi clone. A little less defensiveness of the SV from some on this forum might be a good idea. It's a superb bike, but it's not going to be as track focussed as some of the other bikes mentioned.

The SV fanboyism can get tiresome, but not relevant in this case. I'd be saying the same thing if someone claimed they'd reached the limit of what a 600 could do after 1 track day and therefore needed a 1000.

[Blue_SV650S]

Get rearsets then. At any rate, the lions share of time you can gain is into and out of corners, not at the apex, so ground clearance is no excuse.

The cheap suspension may well make you feel like you can't brake late, and having the confidence is important so I understand that (which is why I've got a GSXR front end on my SV track bike). But you CAN brake late. Just watch Blue_SV650S track videos.

So, if you're not comfortable on the SV and want to change that's understandable but my point remains valid - it isn't the bike that's stopping you going faster.


Indeed.

It's good to see you had fun on your trackday imaleon, but I think you are disillusioned if you think it is just the bike holding you back here!! ;)

I take it you were in novice right? ... well this is a totally stock curvy (my spare bike, not my #1) in the FAST group .. watch this vid and tell me again that you have outgrown the SV650 and that it can't take on 600+s on the brakes/in the bends ;) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5chWBh7mf50

Don't sign up to the pub biker BS please ;)

So where is your next trackday? ... due to the long back straight, Snetterton isn't really the greatest track for the SV.

p.s. the ground clearance on a stock SV is shocking ... you are not a hero simply coz you can grind the pegs!! ;)

[Blue_SV650S]

I know its hard having banter with you flamin_squirrel from previous experience and its sometimes a laugh.

But the point is he would be 'potentialy' beable to blitz the fast group quicker and more safely on a ss600 than he ever would on a standard sv650, and you cant deny that.

He may not have reached the FULL potential of the standard sv, but to progress further he may be on the very edge of HIS limits, which is pointless and could potentialy end in pain.

To be fair I dont know the guy, I dont know how he rides, no one does. Although this being your first trackday ever I can appreciate why some people may struggle to understand you thinking you cant get anymore from the bike.

agreed.

[imaleon]

Indeed.

It's good to see you had fun on your trackday imaleon, but I think you are disillusioned if you think it is just the bike holding you back here!! ;)

I take it you were in novice right? ... well this is a totally stock curvy (my spare bike, not my #1) in the FAST group .. watch this vid and tell me again that you have outgrown the SV650 and that it can't take on 600+s on the brakes/in the bends ;) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5chWBh7mf50

Don't sign up to the pub biker BS please ;)

So where is your next trackday? ... due to the long back straight, Snetterton isn't really the greatest track for the SV.

p.s. the ground clearance on a stock SV is shocking ... you are not a hero simply coz you can grind the pegs!! ;)


Well excuse me Mr Rossi, if you'd actually read all the posts, I was taking the 600s on under braking and in the corners, but thats not the point... I never said I was at hero either, you seem to be very disillusioned of what im trying to say. Again as I've mentioned before, if an instructor has recommended me to upgrade to a different bike, I'll take his adivce over yours any day of the week. Also as I've mentioned before, I'm not prepared to go any faster on my bike as it will put me into potentially dangerous situations. If I was paid for this I would have no problem, but this is my bike and my money; so for me to improve my riding I have been recommended by an instructor + my mates who I'm positive are more experienced than you to upgrade.

It's funny how a simple thread about my first track day gains the attention of these apparent 'know it alls' I've watch your video, and my intial statement still reamins valid...sorry :D

[yorkie_chris]

I suspect he will go quicker on a SS600 than on his SV. If he wants quicker, then that's fine.

True.


But, mr imaleon, do you want to go faster or improve your riding?

[21QUEST]

Indeed.

It's good to see you had fun on your trackday imaleon, but I think you are disillusioned if you think it is just the bike holding you back here!! ;)

I take it you were in novice right? ... well this is a totally stock curvy (my spare bike, not my #1) in the FAST group .. watch this vid and tell me again that you have outgrown the SV650 and that it can't take on 600+s on the brakes/in the bends ;) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5chWBh7mf50
.......
I love the Bluey Vids :cool:.....when the Bluey vids come out , the pubtalk stops. After all , we all need a reality check every so often :mrgreen: .....oops maybe not :eek:


Well excuse me Mr Rossi, if you'd actually read all the posts, I was taking the 600s on under braking and in the corners, but thats not the point... I never said I was at hero either, you seem to be very disillusioned of what im trying to say. Again as I've mentioned before, if an instructor has recommended me to upgrade to a different bike, I'll take his adivce over yours any day of the week. Also as I've mentioned before, I'm not prepared to go any faster on my bike as it will put me into potentially dangerous situations. If I was paid for this I would have no problem, but this is my bike and my money; so for me to improve my riding I have been recommended by an instructor + my mates who I'm positive are more experienced than you to upgrade.

It's funny how a simple thread about my first track day gains the attention of these apparent 'know it alls' I've watch your video, and my intial statement still reamins valid...sorry :D
:smt082 ](*,)

imaleon, if you are happy to accept said instructors BS(that's what I make of it), cool but that doesn't change the reality(as seen on the vid).
Don't forget to post your lap times so we can compare......... :D ;)


Ben

[yorkie_chris]

I'm not prepared to go any faster on my bike as it will put me into potentially dangerous situations.

I think this statement is total b0llocks really.

Why is going faster on a faster bike going to be safer?

[imaleon]

imaleon, if you are happy to accept said instructors BS(that's what I make of it), cool but that doesn't change the reality(as seen on the vid).
Don't forget to post your lap times so we can compare......... :D ;)


Ben

Still people aren't listening, there's no point in trying to explain things to 'fellow bikers' if they don't listen. Well done lads, you're making this whole forum into a very uninviting place. At the end of the day I will be producing better lap times, and improving my riding

[yorkie_chris]

you're making this whole forum into a very uninviting place

Put your handbag away big boy. If you don't want to debate about something in good humour then why argue the point? :-P

[northwind]

I think this statement is total b0llocks really.

Why is going faster on a faster bike going to be safer?

Because that faster bike might be better- better brakes, better suspension- so you can go at the same speed or faster using less of its potential, gives you bigger margins for error.

Scooby Drew said the same thing when he upgraded to his Ninja, he didn't say anything ridiculous about having outgrown it but he did say (very sensibly) that to go any faster he'd have to push the SV harder than he was comfortable with. Which underneath all the semantics and bravado and armchair punditry and other general nonsense in this thread is a sensible argument. there's some good stuff in this thread but it's buried under about 30 posts of absolute TOSS :D

[imaleon]

Why is going faster on a faster bike going to be safer?

Put your handbag away big boy. If you don't want to debate about something in good humour then why argue the point? :-P

Jesus how many times do I need to say this, read the other posts and then make a comment!!! I am more than happy about debating any point, but the fact of the matter is that this thread never intended to be a debate! One person made stupid comments taking things out of context. And stupid comments like put your handbag away?? I stand by statement, you should think a little more before you post something. Uninviting forum, I used to reagrd this site quite highly and the users, but now I beginning to feel differently.

And at the end of the day, you've never even seen me ride! So how can you make any judgement at all!

[yorkie_chris]

This is the point, I'm not prepared to fork out loads of money switching stuff around, I may as well buy a new bike. I am very comfortable on the SV, and if I were going any faster than it would be getting dangerous. Every single person can go a little bit faster on any bike; but to it safely and where you are actually improving is a different story, hence exceeded the potential of the bike.

Cheaper to sort out a few little things on the SV than buy a SS600.

If you aren't going to push the limits of the bike why would you go on a track in the first place?

Going a little bit faster on a bike IS improving, getting an extra 30bhp and going 5mph faster down the back straight isn't really the same thing.

[yorkie_chris]

And stupid comments like put your handbag away?? I stand by statement, you should think a little more before you post something.

Tee hee.

[chakraist]

That Mr. Rossi comment was kinda unfounded, watch the SV vs. GSXR Thou vid and perhaps you'll get a better understanding of what is meant. Fair play, you haven't had nearly the racing experience he has, but its true with some rearsets you'd have way more ground clearance, and a suspension upgrade would help a ton.

On the other hand, upgrading to a more track focussed bike would be considerably easier, but if you could make up the time on the SV and then jump to a quicker bike you'd be considerably faster, I imagine. I see what northwind and the others are saying by basically saying that you don't want to ride the bike past your limits/its limits as you would be much more likely to ditch it.

Also, if you don't want to shell out for expensive rearsets there are some plates on ebay that raise the stock pegs up and back about an inch for around about 20-30 quid. Worth a look.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Scooby Drew said the same thing when he upgraded to his Ninja, he didn't say anything ridiculous about having outgrown it but he did say (very sensibly) that to go any faster he'd have to push the SV harder than he was comfortable with. Which underneath all the semantics and bravado and armchair punditry and other general nonsense in this thread is a sensible argument. there's some good stuff in this thread but it's buried under about 30 posts of absolute TOSS :D

That would be referring to a sports bike being more confidence inspiring though wouldn't it? That's perfectly understandable. I asked the OP if that was the case in this instance, but nope, apparently he's comfortable on the SV - it would just be 'dangerous' for him to try and go faster. Quite frankly, that's a gigantic steaming pile of male bovine excrement, because...

Because that faster bike might be better- better brakes, better suspension- so you can go at the same speed or faster using less of its potential, gives you bigger margins for error.

...the whole point of a track day is to reduce the margin of error - that's what going faster and trying to find the limit is all about. If the OP think that this is 'dangerous' then he shouldn't bother doing track days at all

[Tim in Belgium]

Glad you had fun out on track and hope you have a lot more.

If it takes a while to move on to an SS600 try the SV at some of the twistier circuits (Cadwell etc) where even for skill lacking mortals like my self the lack of power is less apparent as there are only two shortish straights.

[Blue_SV650S]

Because that faster bike might be better- better brakes, better suspension- so you can go at the same speed or faster using less of its potential, gives you bigger margins for error.

This although being true also has its flaws!!

Having a bike that can 'handle' and goes fast lulls you into a false sense of security, and if you do have a crash, its likely to be 'bigger'!! :shock:

The key thing here is that as stuff happens so rapidly, it is actually HARDER to learn how to go fast on a fast bike!! by this, I don't mean being able to do a ton fifty down the back straight, I mean really stringing a lap together ;) A fast bike actually has a tendency to scare you a bit, the SV is less intimidating, and therefore as a novice, you will prolly go faster on it!! :)

That Mr. Rossi comment was kinda unfounded, watch the SV vs. GSXR Thou vid and perhaps you'll get a better understanding of what is meant.

Yeah, this GIXER dude, WAS the fastest rider in the group; he was head and shoulders above anyone else out there round the twisty bits, but you can see his laptimes were still mostly made on the straights!! ;) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bULT4Jbgo

He would have probably benefited in improving his 'skills' on a slower bike.

I am not saying no one can beat me when I am on my SV, it just takes a skilled rider along with the faster bike (or rossi on a shopping trolley :lol:) - the point we are making is that a faster bike doesn't automatically make you a more skilled rider or automatically enable you to be more skilled - this WAS a fast guy on a FAST bike http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zE0Y8ft8hAA ... and sure enough, I can't touch someone like that on my SV 8) He has 'skill' AND the bike ... he was therefore untouchable!! 8)


I asked the OP if that was the case in this instance, but nope, apparently he's comfortable on the SV - it would just be 'dangerous' for him to try and go faster. Quite frankly, that's a gigantic steaming pile of male bovine excrement, because...

Quite and that is what has caused all this objection imaleon ;) ... you have done one trackday in the novice group (presumably) and you are telling others (who have done a lot more) to shut up and adamant in your views - this is a discussion forum after all!! :rolleyes: As for bad mouthing the forum just because we strongly disagree with what you have said is a bit naff! ... are we supposed to all be here for mutual back slapping and big soapy baths, or to discuss our united passion in bikes and debate such matters with the array of experience of the .org?? ;)

imaleon - I wouldn't be surprised if that instructor has never ridden an SV!! ;) ... also from my experience, not all the instructors are what they are cracked up to be ... watch this one ... on the 2nd lap, the instructor (white bike orange bib) nearly takes out the bike in front of me, then nearly bashes into me at Druids (you can see me pick the bike up as I get hit (or almost hit)).

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndi-SScQvbA

imaleon - do what you like, and if you are not into taking criticism then please don't let that prevent you from posting your trackday experience on here. Just put it up and let us all do the armchair hero over what has been put! :smt038 :D

To my mind, you could learn a lot more on the SV about riding fast ... I think sticking with the SV for a bit will make you a faster rider in the end ...

Its a bit like people who have 'gone up the ranks' on road bikes, not just hopped straight on a thou after passing their test. The person who went 50-125-250/400-600+ is generally the 'better' and consequently faster and safer rider than the thou man ;)

[fizzwheel]

Do we thnk we could debate the point without managing to turn this into a handbag fest. Some of you have been around long enough to know better. If you want to pass on the benefit of your wisdom you can do it without sounding like a patronising moron you know.

We're supposed to be adults.

Take a chill pill guys.

Althought I do think Blue is right in his post above, put the time in on the SV it will make you a better, faster, more confident rider in the long run.

I'm glad I had two years on mine before I got my GSXR. At the end of the day its personal choice isnt it.

[carty]

Does anyone know what they're db level is on their exhaust? I have a remus can, and I don't think it has baffles.....or I don't have them. I was really scared that I wasn't going to pass the noise level.

Hello mate, a Remus can with no baffles cetainly has the potential to be too loud for a quiet track day! I'm not too sure how you can get it measured prior to actually going on track - I take it that it was ok for the one you did?

For what it's worth, I understand what you meant about finding your / the limts on the SV and wanting something different. Obviously some people in the thread don't! :rolleyes: Whereabouts in Staffs are you? Maybe we can go for a rideout and I'll report back on your skills! PM if you fancy meeting up for a bimble,

Cheers,
Matt

[carty]

Double post

[Viney]

Ok, this is how i see it. You have been on a track day, your 1st i believe? You got the pegs down a bit? The instuctor says, ooo, you need a faster bike. That just really does not make sense. As said the Sv has shocking clearence at the best of times, i get the pegs down on roundabouts commuting to london. I truly think that the instuctors comments are wrong. Just because he's and instructor, does not mean hes right, much the same as some of out fellow members on here.

Im not a track day junkie, i have never even attended one, but one thing i am i a sceptic. Just because some instructor, who all intense purposes is just another rider probably not qualifed (just guessing here) says i need another bike, do you HAVE to believe him?

I have had my SV for 8 years this december. I have found the limit many a time. I dont see how finding the limit on a FASTER bike is going to help.

At the end of the day if you want to go and buy a SS600+ then go for it, but i wouldnt do it on the say so of some track day instuructor. Thats all.

As for your comments about the forum, i dont see why because people have some opinions that differ from yours, makes this place an univiting place. Again, your choice.

Love and hugs

[northwind]

If you aren't going to push the limits of the bike why would you go on a track in the first place?


Because you like riding motorbikes. You don't have to find your limits to enjoy a trackday, frankly if you did 9/10ths of all people you see out there wouldn't be, as most people never get close to pushing the limits of their bikes on track.

...the whole point of a track day is to reduce the margin of error

For you, maybe. Not for everyone. For me it's about keeping the margins for error and decreasing the risk while riding hard, consistent and predictable surfaces and grip mean I can ride faster than normal without taking any more risks. I've been a too-fast rider on track, won't be again I hope. But I could keep up my reasonable track pace now all day without crashing, is that true of people who want to push their limits? Nope, because when you push hard enough they push back.

[Blue_SV650S]

Ok, I am not sure I should do this, but .. hey that has never stopped me before has it!! :lol:

Just to try and bring a 'reality check' in here, I'll try and point out why people are getting so animated ... It's a long post, but please read it in full before passing judgement on what I am saying.

Some quotes extracts first:-

Yeh I got it down a few times, but only on the right side. Yeah I went out with an instructor, he gave me really good advice

I think I'm beginning to outgrow the SV, and I believe I've reached the bikes potential (having scraped the belly pan & pegs on the road) having chewed up my tyres right to the edge.

If a track instructor recommended that I would improve a lot faster on a quicker bike, and if I was on my footpegs around nearly every corner than I think I need a faster bike.......

No I do, because I was scraping the footpegs constantly. With an SV for example you can't brake extremely late into corners compared to other bikes unless you want to bare the risk of possibly crashing! Simply because the SV has cheaper components to it. .... I think for me to continue improving my biking and to minimise the danger as much as possible I need a faster bike. Not just in terms of speed but braking and handling. So I have exceeded the potential of the bike.

I am very comfortable on the SV, and if I were going any faster than it would be getting dangerous.

I can understand why people would be skeptical about me saying I need a different bike after my first bike track day.... Ever since getting my belly pan down on the cat and fiddle run I've begin to doubt whether the SV is the safest bike to ride near/at the limit.

Again as I've mentioned before, if an instructor has recommended me to upgrade to a different bike, I'll take his adivce over yours any day of the week. Also as I've mentioned before, I'm not prepared to go any faster on my bike as it will put me into potentially dangerous situations. ... so for me to improve my riding I have been recommended by an instructor + my mates who I'm positive are more experienced than you to upgrade.

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/pages/l440.jpgOk, so that is the blurb we were faced with. Now I appreciate photos are not always taken at the most opportune moment to capture a rider at his most dramatic (it is actually really hard to get a photogroper to take the 'ideal' shot!! :( ). Anyway, apart from the written statements by imaleon, all we have to go on to see if his statements are founded are a few pics ...

And I have to say ... the result is not good :oops:

imaleon - this isn't supposed to be a dig or anything, just trying to give you a rounded view that perhaps your instructor should have been giving you advice other than 'change your bike' ;) ... I indeed don't have any certificate to say what I say has any more weight than what he did (but lets face it, he probably doesn't have a certificate to prove it either ;)), but please at least look and listen to what I think is going on. Please take it as constructive criticism and not a dig, I AM trying to help here and potentially save you a fair bit of cash!!



OK, Exibit A: I am sure if we were deeper in this corner or on a faster lap, the pegs might go down?? We are not that far off in the pic ... but look at the body position - bolt upright - the bike is doing ALL the work. Also note the seemingly virginal kneeslider (note this through all the pics)

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l426.jpg

Exhibit B: Same problem as Exhibit A - but possibly this is at Russels and imaleon is preparing for the left? - EDIT ... humm ... there are trees in the background ... it isn't russels

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l427.jpg


Exhibit C - better (bum off the seat a bit now), but lets face it, still not quite right ;)

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l396.jpg
Exhibit D - that peg isn't far off scraping on this pic ... but not coz the bike is too slow for him ... its just incorrect body position

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l390.jpg

Exhibit E - Bolt upright again, if at russels, really not looking in the right place (should be looking at the rapidly approaching right apex) ... if it is not at russels, then it just reinforces my initial points about being bolt upright.

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l185.jpg

Exhibit F - I think we can start seeing the pattern here - pegs dangerously close to touching ... rider bolt upright.

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l340.jpg

----------------------------

I am sorry imaleon, but all I can conclude from above exhibits is that the instructor would have been much better off giving you feedback on your riding position and recommending a set of rearsets.

With your current adopted riding style, you will be decking out a GIXER in no time, with little real gain ...

As I said, please take this as constructive criticism and perhaps use your own eyes of taking what the instructor said as dogma, I think he was not giving the most useful advice!! ;)

Its great you enjoyed your day and you were obviously pounding the laps in 8) ... but it looks like you have more you can work on before it is necessary to go to the expense of upgrading bike.

[wheelnut]

Handbag Racing:rolleyes: A new sport.

Im sorry but the SV is a superb bike for novices on track days, the choice of track, in this case Snetterton is not.

I agree about the part about the instructor, most of them are riders like me and you who are trying to improve their riding too.

My SV outshone this rider several times at various tracks, amazing the other riders I passed on their Ducamsaki 1000's

On the road, I scrape my pegs on a regular basis, it doesnt mean I am faster than you, it just means I am fatter than you.

An SV does lack something, my main problem was the brakes were poor so I had to learn to tip into corners later and sit it up smoother and quicker, but isnt that the point?

Try an organised race school like Ron Haslam, Darley Moor or California which let you use race bikes and you are all identical. You still get riders who outbrake you into corners forcing you to run wide, that is because they are confident with the machine they are using.

Track day God, me, hell no, more like the vicar in his Morris 1000:D

[gettin2dizzy]

I get where Imaleon is coming from, we're just being pedantic and nit picking at his comments. The SV is not a track bike, and as such does not excel at track racing. A SS600 however is designed for this so will be more at home there. (don't pick me up on that, you know what I mean ;)) The brakes or weak, the suspension bottoms out and it twitches like the best of them mid corner.

I also agree with Blue that there looks like a lot of room for improvement for your riding, and more time on the track focussing on body positioning would solve that. However if you're in the position to buy a new bike and you have your eye on one, frickin' go for it! It will be better on the track but you may find you have to nurse it around as they're so bloody quick. Every corner approach will be that much faster and every corner exit has the potential for a highside.

And everyone knows Blue uses track rubber so you can discount those videos ;)
*hopes to never be on track with him*

[Blue_SV650S]

And everyone knows Blue uses track rubber so you can discount those videos ;)

That is indeed true ... I use Supercorsas track compound (but road legal/treaded) tyres, great tyres, highly recommended if you are a keen trackdayer!! 8) But as for dismissing the vids coz of this ... I am not so sure ... those vids are from the fast group .. how many people do you think are not out there on dedicated track rubber (or at least track focused rubber) ;)

This vid was on my Mille, it had road tyres on it (2CTs (I HATE Michelin!) ) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CpGmbmRZeQ8.

Anyway ...

I agree a 600 is a much more logical choice for a track bike, it is inherently 'better' in every way. It has the same or more torque as the SV all the way through the rev range, but also has double the HP for the straights 8) ... it'll stop and turn better too!!

So if you were to ask me "what shall I get as a track bike?" .. I would answer a SS600 ... if you said to me "my SV isn't fast enough for me I NEED a SS600" ... I'd say BS, you are just not riding it properly/hard enough ;)

We have the latter situation here ... and that is why there has been uproar ;)

[wheelnut]

It looks like Silent 11 has got the idea from Ron Haslam race school.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/phild11/trackday/DSC_7321.jpg

[gettin2dizzy]

That is indeed true ... I use Supercorsas track compound (but road legal/treaded) tyres, great tyres, highly recommended if you are a keen trackdayer!! 8) But as for dismissing the vids coz of this ... I am not so sure ... those vids are from the fast group .. how many people do you think are not out there on dedicated track rubber (or at least track focused rubber) ;)
;)
I don't dismiss them at all :thumbsup:
It's so funny watching you punch your way up each corner. I can't imagine how irritated those guys must be! I see EXACTLY why you use the SV rather than your others. hehe. Is it not hard getting 160 track tyres? and did you sort the suspension out?

[Blue_SV650S]

I don't dismiss them at all :thumbsup:
It's so funny watching you punch your way up each corner. I can't imagine how irritated those guys must be! I see EXACTLY why you use the SV rather than your others. hehe. Is it not hard getting 160 track tyres? and did you sort the suspension out?

I use 2nd hand superscorsas on my SV ... basically tyres that racers are selling as they are no longer good enough for them are prime picking for me*!! :lol:

My #1 bike now has emulators and springs in the front, ohlins in the rear. I've jacked the ohlins up to the max and got some giles rearsets to improve the ground clearance 8) .. I had some 'raiser plates' on the other bike and despite trying to ride such to avoid toe down (toe sliders are not cheap) you can still hear them accidentally scrap at the odd turn :oops: ... the first example is at the first right hander in that vid where I was getting carried away chasing the guy on the black bike and temporarily forgot about lack of clearance ... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5chWBh7mf50 ... note I try and pick the bike up slightly when it touches as I realised I had messed up! :oops:


*New/fresh tyres make that last few % possible .. dropping say a second a lap due to tyres is crucial to a racer ... almost irrelevant to me on trackdays 8)

[imaleon]

As I said, please take this as constructive criticism and perhaps use your own eyes of taking what the instructor said as dogma, I think he was not giving the most useful advice!! ;)

Its great you enjoyed your day and you were obviously pounding the laps in 8) ... but it looks like you have more you can work on before it is necessary to go to the expense of upgrading bike.




As I said, please take this as constructive criticism and perhaps use your own eyes of taking what the instructor said as dogma, I think he was not giving the most useful advice!! ;)

Its great you enjoyed your day and you were obviously pounding the laps in 8) ... but it looks like you have more you can work on before it is necessary to go to the expense of upgrading bike.


That's pretty strange you went to all that trouble but anyway, I can tell straight away the pictures you've picked out are either:
1) at the beginning of the sessions, I made a very conscious effort not to rush into things

2) at the beginning of the day, obviously taking time to learn correct gears and entry speed

3) I had two sessions with the instructor, one at the beginning of the day, and he specifically mentioned my body postion, and that I need to start shifting my weight. The second occasion on the 5th session, he said that I was really pushing the bike to the limit. (the photos which i've put up)

4) Have to admit I never pushed it hard at Russels, (seeing two high sides right infront, didn't want to follow in their footsteps) I would've pushed it harder if there was a power left to heat up the far left side of the tyre.

I am appreciative of what you're saying to me, but having your 'exhibits' is pretty ...strange, I can go and find you hundreds of photos of riders in the intermediate group with poor positioning and little lean. It's easy to take things out of context.

If only you'd been riding behind me/I had brought my camera. I will next time!

BTW i did get my knee down, so those pics are obviously from the beginning of the day. Thank you

[gettin2dizzy]

Good video that, how far in is it when you clip the ground?

I find the SV goes so so twitchy in fast corners. You come off the throttle and it lurches around loads. (nothing a decent rider wouldn't sort out though;)) Did the new suspension iron this out?

[imaleon]

Glad you had fun out on track and hope you have a lot more.

If it takes a while to move on to an SS600 try the SV at some of the twistier circuits (Cadwell etc) where even for skill lacking mortals like my self the lack of power is less apparent as there are only two shortish straights.

I was looking at Cadwell, I watched a BSB race there. It looks very demanding, and that mountain section....i've seen some terrible offs there! Thanks for the advice, I am already looking for dates :)

[imaleon]

Hello mate, a Remus can with no baffles cetainly has the potential to be too loud for a quiet track day! I'm not too sure how you can get it measured prior to actually going on track - I take it that it was ok for the one you did?

For what it's worth, I understand what you meant about finding your / the limts on the SV and wanting something different. Obviously some people in the thread don't! :rolleyes: Whereabouts in Staffs are you? Maybe we can go for a rideout and I'll report back on your skills! PM if you fancy meeting up for a bimble,

Cheers,
Matt

Hey matt,
I live about 20mins from Stafford in a small town. I'm not up there much anymore, but when I am I love going to Matlock and then over the Buxton for the Cat and Fiddle. Do you go over that way much?

[imaleon]

Try an organised race school like Ron Haslam, Darley Moor or California which let you use race bikes and you are all identical. You still get riders who outbrake you into corners forcing you to run wide, that is because they are confident with the machine they are using.

Track day God, me, hell no, more like the vicar in his Morris 1000:D

Hey thanks for telling me about those track schools, they look very interesting. Have you attended them?

[Blue_SV650S]

....

I started of with appreciating the photos won't tell the whole story .. but they are all I/we have to go on other than what you say!! ;) You gotta admit, although no actual photos of it, they back up that you probably were grounding your pegs lots, but they also indicate why!! ;)

I went through all the photos for your group from the day (~10 pages??) ... they are just a smattering of the ones when you are approaching/in the turn (no point doing ones where you were on the straight or way after exiting) ... you find me ones that don't say the same story ;)

And yes, lots of people in the Inters could improve body positioning/doing it wrong ... as could lots of people in fast ... providing photos of other people with incorrect body positioning won't really help us here though will it ;)

One question, did you get your kneedown at all? Looking at the photos, I just can't see you could have! ... BTW kneedown is not he b-all and end-all, but if you are getting toes down before knees, you are doing it wrong ;)

Good video that, how far in is it when you clip the ground?

I find the SV goes so so twitchy in fast corners. You come off the throttle and it lurches around loads. (nothing a decent rider wouldn't sort out though;)) Did the new suspension iron this out?

~8.5 seconds in is the first 'tinkle' (when you identify the noise, you will notice it a couple of places in the vid ;) ) ... its also right at the very start of the RSV vid ;)

Why are you coming off the throttle in a turn?!!? :lol:

[kwak zzr]

lol! A better handling bike will give you more confidence hence you'll go quicker. Same with better tyres. A good 50% is in the mind but having a great handling, fast bike helps a lot. The sv is a streetbike, not a fantastic track tool.

follow blue round a track then.

[imaleon]

One question, did you get your kneedown at all? Looking at the photos, I just can't see you could have!



So you're calling me a liar now.... I said on one of my first posts that I had done. I also told you that these pictures were from the beginning of the day, and I improved my positioning on the bike quite significantly after riding with the instructors. The ones you've postet are on the first couple of pages, they're posted in chronological order.

[gettin2dizzy]

Why are you coming off the throttle in a turn?!!? :lol:
draincovers, cars, twigs, wet patches ;)
But I've got Rockingham booked in 6 weeks -woo!

[imaleon]

Tell you what blue, I'll put my bike camera on my next track day (should be in the next few weeks) and I'll get a mate to take some good photos; and then I'll accept/look forward to your critisms. Making comments on those photos is pointless since they do not relflect my riding ability, and especially how I progressed thoughout the day.

[kwak zzr]

Wish someone would comment on my riding i keep crashing :(

[gettin2dizzy]

Wish someone would comment on my riding i keep crashing :(
it's all that polish oozing its way on to the wheels!

[kwak zzr]

it's all that polish oozing its way on to the wheels!

\\:D/:smt043\\:D/:smt043\\:D/

[Blue_SV650S]

follow blue round a track then.

Prolly not the best idea .. I do get it WRONG sometimes ... :oops:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/blue_sv650s/brandscrash_1.jpg



So you're calling me a liar now.... I said on one of my first posts that I had done. I also told you that these pictures were from the beginning of the day, and I improved my positioning on the bike quite significantly after riding with the instructors. The ones you've postet are on the first couple of pages, they're posted in chronological order.

FFS ... look this is the last page (page 7) http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/index7.html

That is you 2nd row down, far right yes?? :rolleyes:

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/thumbnails/s440.jpg

Further down page 7 is you again, your 'main' shot you started of with http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l478.jpg Its much 'better' than the first one, but it is still hard to see you got your KD before the pegs looking at that?!!? ;)

And yes, looks like you did say you had got it down ... by me asking the question I had obviously missed that on first pass hadn't I - and not just calling you a fibber! ;)

Although I can't actually see one of you in the act, I can see you probably were getting your pegs down, ju tthe photographer missed it every time!! :D ... Likewise, from the other shot http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l478.jpg I can see you might have got your KD come the end of the day.

But I struggle to believe/accept you have reached the limits of the SV and have no more to learn from it before upgrading ...

draincovers, cars, twigs, wet patches ;)
But I've got Rockingham booked in 6 weeks -woo!

Cool.

Tell you what blue, I'll put my bike camera on my next track day (should be in the next few weeks) and I'll get a mate to take some good photos; and then I'll accept/look forward to your critisms. Making comments on those photos is pointless since they do not relflect my riding ability, and especially how I progressed thoughout the day.

Good stuff, I look forward to it :) ... and yes, trackday photos do tend to suck!! :D ... they also seem to only take them earlier on, so they can upload them and display them before the punters go home!! ;)

You obviously feel I'm totally misguided in my observations/assumptions/extrapolations and therefore I have just spent hours typing total testicles!! Prolly right!! :lol: ... it hardly seems it was worth the effort at this point - I have to admit!! :rolleyes:

[northwind]

The ones you've postet are on the first couple of pages, they're posted in chronological order.

They're not, the very first pic is from the second last page. The ones from the last page are pretty much the same tbh, your bum's pretty much on the seat and your body's right in the middle. Even in the pic you chose yourself, which is the last one, you're still like that- knee's almost down because the bike is so far over, but your body position's still quite upright, you've got bum over a bit but your torso goes back the other way.

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l468.jpg

[northwind]

But look, that all sounds negative but I wouldn't see it like that if it was me, most people lack the balls to lean the bike that far, so if the pics are at all representative you're in a really good starting point here- you're already doing stuff that doesn't come naturally to most, and you're not doing the rather pathetic riding-for-a-kneedown that infests trackdays- bike upright, body right off the bike, knee out at right angles, knee down, slow as ****.

I bet this guy's on GSXR.org right now, "I'm really fast, look, I almost got my toe down" :rolleyes: You're a long way from that.

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508nbw/mediafiles/l466.jpg

[Balky001]

I was there on 19th and some of the pictures of me are shocking :D I did spend the first session running the new tyres in and then going on the wrong line as people seemed to want to brake 300 metres before any of the turns(that's my excuse).

I was in inters and some of the guys actually 'looked' quite fast on the track, but they weren't. Big leans, decent body position but no corner speed. I think inters can be the class that has learnt you need body position but sometimes forgets ultimately you are using the skills in order to go faster as well as smoother and safer.

IMO the instructors vary, I had one at Rockingham who was brilliant, he's now left No Limits. The one I had at Snetters not only lost me because he was on a Tuono and couldn't keep up but he was also annoyed the inters were blocking him. Feedback wasn't very scientific to say the least

By best side ;-), me at back

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508ibw/pages/page_75.html


Oh look, they do sometimes get it on film

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508ibw/pages/page_329.html

How do you post pics, I use the icon and just get this

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508ibw/pages/page_75.html

stupid edit function

[Zombie Jesus]

As a reference, my first track day at llandow probably on one of the first sessions:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher_thomas/bike/llandow3.jpg

3rd trackday at silverstone though I crashed the session after this was taken:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher_thomas/bike/silverstone_track2.jpg

Not sure if this is right or not, no one has ever shown me. Only speaking from my own experience getting a better body position makes the bike feel more stable in corners, turns the bike quicker especially at higher speeds, gives you more feel for tightening/widening your line.

[Blue_SV650S]

How do you post pics, I use the icon and just get this



You are linking the page, not the picture! ;)

Hover over the picture and right click on ... select properties ... its that value you want ... e.g.

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508ibw/mediafiles/l329.jpg

Then put the [ IMG ] wrappers round it (or click the pic button) ...

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/190508ibw/mediafiles/l329.jpg

[Blue_SV650S]

As a reference, my first track day at llandow probably on one of the first sessions:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher_thomas/bike/llandow3.jpg

3rd trackday at silverstone though I crashed the session after this was taken:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/christopher_thomas/bike/silverstone_track2.jpg

Not sure if this is right or not, no one has ever shown me. Only speaking from my own experience getting a better body position makes the bike feel more stable in corners, turns the bike quicker especially at higher speeds, gives you more feel for tightening/widening your line.

Yep, total contrast in body position ... you look much 'better' than either of the other two you are with in the second pic 8)

It takes a bit of getting used to in the beginning and you will prolly go slower initially whilst trying to adopt a more 'racing' stance, but ultimately, its the only way to get quicker so it is worth the investment! ;)

[Tim in Belgium]

I was looking at Cadwell, I watched a BSB race there. It looks very demanding, and that mountain section....i've seen some terrible offs there! Thanks for the advice, I am already looking for dates :)

Just be gentle on the throttle over the mountain and you'll be fine, guaranteed some wheelie action :)

I gave the throttle a "bit" more on one lap (probably something pathetic like 1/8th open instead of 1/16th open) and thought the front wheel had reared up at least a foot -2 1/2 feet in the air (probably 2-4 inches) slamming shut the throttle quickly brought crown jewels into contact with the tank, it took a few laps to recover. Apart from that one little incident I really enjoyed Cadwell, it takes a bit more learning but was great by the end of the day, going back on the 21st July if you fancy some company.

[Blue_SV650S]

Just be gentle on the throttle over the mountain and you'll be fine, guaranteed some wheelie action :)

I gave the throttle a "bit" more on one lap (probably something pathetic like 1/8th open instead of 1/16th open) and thought the front wheel had reared up at least a foot -2 1/2 feet in the air (probably 2-4 inches) slamming shut the throttle quickly brought cron jewels into contact with the tank, it took a few laps to recover. Apart from that one little incident I really enjoyed Cadwell, it takes a bit more learning but was great by the end of the day, going back on the 21st July if you fancy some company.


Time for another vid :lol: you know you love them really!! ;)

I have found the best way to tame the mountain is to knock the throttle off just before the crest ... that way the rear hops off and the front doesn't go skywards 8)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjl-a2Zgp-Y