Crash bull****

[leatherpatches]

How many times do we hear (or read) about how someone,

"Knew I wasn't going to make it, so lay my bike down." (actually just had a lowside)

or

"Took the safest route and sat the bike up, smashing into the far section of bend." (actually just braked in a corner and ran wide)

or similar?

I'm going to bet there are a very small percentage of riders good enough to actually do the first and of these an even smaller subset who would have the presence of mind and balls to do it in a crash situation.

Let's face it, most crashes that are caused by rider error simply happen - carrying through the error that was made. There is no conscious decision to act one way or another, just the though of "CRAP!"; then the post-crash need to save face by pretending that part of the accident was under control.

Or am I being unfair?

[neio79]

well my off was rider error with some mitigating circumstances. too much throttle on cold wet and greasy roads with cold tyres. And i did not have time to think the next thing i knew i was on my **** looking at my bike.

Actually what happened was a mis judged a power slide and had to lay it down or i was going to go in a bush LOL

[yorkie_chris]

One to think about, on tarmac, rubber has a higher coefficient of friction than steel does.

Also has a higher "u" value than leather, textile, flesh and bone.

Result of this...

You can stop quicker using the brakes, than you can sliding on your rse.

[DanAbnormal]

Er, what's your point?

[yorkie_chris]

I think the point is, if you mess up, don't turn round and say "yeaahhhh falling off was a decision based on the relative safety of that course of action compared to the other options"

[Seggons]

I knew exactly what I was doing when I went head first into the bush. I saw a bird (tweet tweet type) that I wanted to get a closer look at, but I got a bit too close. ;)

For all those that don't know about 'the bush' (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3vctLAvlkgo)

[Wayluya]

LOL - used to hear that a fair bit. May have even said it myself :rolleyes:

Possibly caused by the delay between knowing that you are having an accident.......and the accident concluding. :smt073

[seedy100]

I know that my off was not my fault.

It was gravity wot done it!

[Lissa]

Our mate Tilt from on here laid his bike down deliberately to avoid a crashed rider in front of him, and 3 other mates have done the same thing for the same reason.

Must take real b&lls to do that.

[DanAbnormal]

Oh. I see. Crashes happen so quick I doubt much thought goes into it other than 'arrrgh this will hurt'.

[Sean_C]

I've let go of my bike at the time I thought best to do so, as for the rest of it, whats the point with the BS? If I've gone straight on into a bush and the road turned left, there's not much excuse really ;)

[DanAbnormal]

We can all add a little artistic licence to a story to make it more exciting/interesting. Happens in all aspects of life, no point getting upset about it. ;)

[kwak zzr]

i just clench my butt cheeks and pray its not gonna hurt too much.

[Sideshow#36]

Well I actually did have to lay the bike down the other week at Cadwell. I ran wide half way around Chris's and instead of going onto the grass cranked over I sat the bike up.....only then to realise that their isnt actually that much run off so yes I did have to deliberately crash the bike. It was either that or a tyre wall at about 60!!!

[Paul the 6th]

"Knew I wasn't going to make it, so lay my bike down." (actually just had a lowside)


I was turning left off a main road onto another main road which I was very familiar with. I didn't realise I was having a lowside until I was sliding down the road on my ar5e with the bike in tow... so yeah, I decided to lay it down after realising i wasn't going to make it :P

[leatherpatches]

We can all add a little artistic licence to a story to make it more exciting/interesting. Happens in all aspects of life, no point getting upset about it. ;)

No upset, more amused when I hear it again... and again...

Sure, it sounds like you've got real balls but actually 99/100 accidents just happen. Sorry to those who propagate another story.

[leatherpatches]

I knew exactly what I was doing when I went head first into the bush. I saw a bird (tweet tweet type) that I wanted to get a closer look at, but I got a bit too close. ;)

For all those that don't know about 'the bush' (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3vctLAvlkgo)

Matey, no offense but you're skating VERY close to the edge with that level of skill. I believe you know it too, from the comments on the video itself.

You really, seriously need to get some more rider training; specifically cornering training.

Ride safe.

[Rhiwbina_Squirrel]

Most of the type-ups on here seem pretty rational. It makes for better reading :) I think it'd be boring if every crash was written as "Knew I wasn't going to make it, so lay my bike down." Maybe, that's just me though.

Alex

[Stig]

I have purposly distanced myself from my motorcycle before whilst mobile, but only because I had already made a huge mistake and what I was heading for was an unavoidable collision with a big metal gate post (and possibly a dry stone wall). "I didn't lay it down" or "take avoiding action", I just jumped off the frikkin bike before I ended up where the bike was taking me. :lol:

End result was no damage to me, but a huge 90 degree dent in the petrol tank. I'd like to think my actions saved that dent from being on me.

[kwak zzr]

riding a motorcycle does improve your reaction times according to bike mags Ive read, but mine still tend to be rubbish, when i come off i tend to just wake up in the road or in a field lol.

[lukemillar]

i just clench my butt cheeks and pray its not gonna hurt too much.

Are you talking about crashing, or when you met Bear!? :lol: :p

[ThEGr33k]

TBH a lot of time an accident will happen SOOO fast you wont know what had happened till you get up and think about it. :(

[yorkie_chris]

Well I actually did have to lay the bike down the other week at Cadwell. I ran wide half way around Chris's and instead of going onto the grass cranked over I sat the bike up.....only then to realise that their isnt actually that much run off so yes I did have to deliberately crash the bike. It was either that or a tyre wall at about 60!!!

That's different, on gravel or grass, or anything else soft the bike will stop loads quicker on it's side as various things turn into ploughs.

[kwak zzr]

Are you talking about crashing, or when you met Bear!? :lol: :p

:pale:

[carty]

Our mate Tilt from on here laid his bike down deliberately to avoid a crashed rider in front of him, and 3 other mates have done the same thing for the same reason.

Must take real b&lls to do that.

I think what this topic is trying to say though, is that if you have time to consciously 'lay down your bike', you also have time to consciously just steer out of the way. Potentially if you 'lay your bike down you might just slide it in to the back of your mate who's just crashed. (Hopefully you avoid him / her though!) There's an article on 'Panic' and how not to, in this month's Bike, quite good and very relevant to this thread. :thumright:

[dizzyblonde]

all I'll say on the matter is when a animal of 100 pounds or so decides to take a ride on your front wheel, the only thing that goes through your mind is

''oh sh!!t, oh sh!!t, oh sh!!t'' and feeling the bike doing a 60mph tankslap down a dual cariage way after the impact, makes you scream ''for gods sake don't go down, for gods sake keep the fecckker up''

Luckily I didn't come off, low or high, but I kinda would have been splattered as much as the deer if I hadn't have thought for a split second how to tackle it. AND BELIEVE ME..my whole life flashed before me

How to stay on the back of a bike after any sort of tussle with it, is a sodding miracle, and theres always a story to tell.

[Stu]

Our mate Tilt from on here laid his bike down deliberately to avoid a crashed rider in front of him, and 3 other mates have done the same thing for the same reason.

Must take real b&lls to do that.
But read YC above. Staying on the rubber & braking and or steering would always be a better option than laying it down which loses all your steering choices & reduces your braking performance.
real balls? - sh*t for brains more like.

[Alpinestarhero]

I've been thrashing about all day, I must have destroyed my rear tyre coming out of that last long sweeper; I only got it on new this morning. As I powered out, it just slide round on me and before I knew it, I was off, highside, higher than lorenzo.

Matt

[Luckypants]

i just clench my butt cheeks and pray its not gonna hurt too much.

Yep, that's my crashing philosophy to. And then blame the real culprit.

[Alpinestarhero]

the only time you should lay the bike down is if you are already on gravel or on the grass and no amount of wishfull thinking and rider skill will enable you to turn the bike / brake to a halt before you hit the wall / tree.

It seems crashes of the type mentioned at mainly due to "target fixation" becasue the rider knows they've over-cooked it (for their abilities) and have locked eyes on the target they fear they are going to crash into.

Matt

[DanAbnormal]

When i come off i tend to just wake up in the road or in a field lol.

LOL!

I seem to end up in wet ditches.

[dizzyblonde]

It seems crashes of the type mentioned at mainly due to "target fixation" becasue the rider knows they've over-cooked it (for their abilities) and have locked eyes on the target they fear they are going to crash into.

Matt


Unfortunatley in my case the target had a fixation on me. It flew over a wall and hit me ehad on rather than me hit IT.....lol. I didn't have a chance to lock my eyes on it, as it got splattered across me and the road before I had chance to wonder what it was. I didn't over cook owt, I was in a straight line. I'm lucky I stayed on cause otherwise I wouldn't be here

[leatherpatches]

I think what this topic is trying to say though, is that if you have time to consciously 'lay down your bike', you also have time to consciously just steer out of the way. Potentially if you 'lay your bike down you might just slide it in to the back of your mate who's just crashed. (Hopefully you avoid him / her though!) There's an article on 'Panic' and how not to, in this month's Bike, quite good and very relevant to this thread. :thumright:

Thank you for writing that. I didn't want to be insensitive. I'm guessing her 4 mates (??) who have done this each tried to say that they had done it as a hero gesture to avoid hitting their friend whereas they probably just couldn't avoid the crash, panicked and stuffed it... same as 99% of crashes.

[northwind]

But don't worry folks, even if you're not now allowed to say you "laid it down", you can always blame the crashy biker's friend, DIESEL! :D (apologies to everyone who genuinely has crashed on diesel, but I bet at least 1/3 of the peoplepeople who claim they did, didn't.)

You can't learn if you're not honest with yourself, and if you're not honest with your mates you tend to end up believing your own lies, and then you'll just do it again. IMO ;)

[leatherpatches]

Ah, DIESEL. I'd forgotten about that one - and 'some crap in the road' as well.

Totally agree with the honesty thing.

[yorkie_chris]

I've had some scary scary slides on diesel. Still my own fault for not seeing it.

[leatherpatches]

I've had some scary moments on imaginary diesel, me.

[blueto]

I know that my off was not my fault.

It was gravity wot done it!

yeah..Gravity sucks dont it!:D

[northwind]

I think I described one of mine this way: "This idiot ran the junction on me, I saw him just in time, stopped going round the roundabout, stood the bike up and braked... Avoided the car by the skin of my teeth, then rode up an exit that wasn't there" :D Put like that it's just poor road planning, if that exit had existed I'd have been home and dry.

Also "I rode into a ditch. I'm not sure why"

[carty]

Thank you for writing that. I didn't want to be insensitive. I'm guessing her 4 mates (??) who have done this each tried to say that they had done it as a hero gesture to avoid hitting their friend whereas they probably just couldn't avoid the crash, panicked and stuffed it... same as 99% of crashes.

I put it a bit more diplomatically than Stu did, but fair play to Stu for writing your true thoughts mate! Lol!

Obviously, there are times when a crash simply could not be avoided, but evidence shows (as carried out by proper researchers and written in Bike) that most crashes are purely rider error and the accident should not have happened if the rider had trusted in the abilities of the bike to make it round the corner, steer out of the way, etc, etc.

I was thinking last night about the MotGP race at Donington, can't remember whether it was last year or year before but Rossi came in to the Foggy Esses at normal entry speed (60mph for that corner?) and someone had stopped / gone down in front of him and Rossi just stopped almost dead and steered round him :smt045. Because he could. Obviously 99.99999% of people couldn't do this, but it shows that the bike CAN. Scale this down and it's easy to come to the conclusion that almost every accident must be rider error.

I had an accident (touch wood my only one [-o< ) about a month after I passed my test. Came round a slight bend, wet road, car pulling out, I panicked, pulled front brake on and went down. In hindsight, and now that I'm a more experienced and more confident rider, I know I could have avoided going down by not braking so hard and simply steering around the front or rear of the vehicle pulling out. I've since had several cars pull out on me but I've not panicked as I know that if I do I'll go down and it'll hurt again.

We live and learn. There's a lot of crash bull said but it's probably not hard to see through those who can always blame something / someone else.

Just to stat again what I said above, 'obviously there are times when a crash simply could not be avoided'.

Cheers,
Matt

[DanAbnormal]

But don't worry folks, even if you're not now allowed to say you "laid it down", you can always blame the crashy biker's friend, DIESEL! :D (apologies to everyone who genuinely has crashed on diesel, but I bet at least 1/3 of the peoplepeople who claim they did, didn't.)


What about jelly babies in the road. Surely one could use that as a good excuse for a spill?

[northwind]

Or KY jelly:

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=101286&highlight=crash

[andyharding]

When i go into corners to hot, i just automitcly look further round the corner and give it more opposite lock. Always worked for me. I have entererd many a corner and thought s**t i aint gonna make this but you will be suprised what the bike is capable of, given road condition, tyre temp etc

[Mr Speirs]

When I had my first 500 lesson it absolutely hammered it down standing water etc and due to my lack of knowledge I was cornering pretty quickly and leaning the bike over a fair bit. The instructor said to me halfway through that he wouldnt lean it any further over and he was well vastly more experienced than me. It was just my uneducated bravery that I believed the bike must be capable of cornering at those speeds and of course it was.

Now however Im chicken **** and get scared when I lean it further than I think I can lean it in lovely dry conditions.

So far ive only had one incident where a car pulled out on to a roundabout on me. Tried to lose speed and carry on turning away from the car which gave the driver enough time to screech to a halt but I did lock my front wheel which caused the bike to 'move' I say move cos I have no idea what it did or which way the handlebars went, it was back to normal before I even had time to react so I was lucky to stay on the bike.

[rob13]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The only thing I could think about between the mistake being realised and colliding with the Tree, was Tree or Dry Stone Wall. Unfortunately, if the impact zone is literally about 5ft from the road, you dont have a lot of time to make a decision. I was applying the rear brake to enter the corner. I started loosing the back end as it started skidding out to the right of me. I applied the front brake standing the bike up and ultimately then collided with the tree no less than 2-3 seconds later. Seconds after that I was squirming around with a detached lower leg trying to free it from underneath the bike.

[on yer bike]

when I went round a blind corner to find a combine harvester at the side of the road I did have a descision to make and didn't have much time... Oncoming car, ditch or combine harvester. I ran out of time and pulled the brakes hoping for the best as I knew either way it was gonna hurt and yes it was my fault for going round the corner as if there was nothing round it.

[northwind]

"Hmm, what's best to hit this with, arm, leg, internal organs or face?" But hesitation struck and he used all three :D

[on yer bike]

Yeah something like that. If you're gonna do it... do it in style!

[sinbad]

When i go into corners to hot, i just automitcly look further round the corner and give it more opposite lock. Always worked for me. I have entererd many a corner and thought s**t i aint gonna make this but you will be suprised what the bike is capable of, given road condition, tyre temp etc

If you can do that, then you weren't going in too hot :)
"Too fast for my own liking" is more the phrase, and I'm sure we've all done that.

I've never (touch wood) had an accident, or any real near misses, so I don't know how I would react in the event of a certain crash. My opinion is that unless you do it often (i.e you're a racer) you're quite likely to panic a little. I can envisage times when getting away from the bike must seem like a good option, but judging whether to jump off or attempt to stop/avoid the accident completely can't be easy either.

[Stig]

When i go into corners to hot, i just automitcly look further round the corner and give it more opposite lock. Always worked for me. I have entererd many a corner and thought s**t i aint gonna make this but you will be suprised what the bike is capable of, given road condition, tyre temp etc

It doesn't matter if you think you've gone in too hot. Always try to make the corner anyway. If you have gone too far and you do come off, you'll already be that much closer to the ground anyway. :lol:

[northwind]

Yeah, if you try to seriously slow down in a corner it just means you crash slightly slower, whereas if you get on with it there's at least a chance you don't crash at all :D Lesson I learned very early on, while riding like a knobber.