What can you get away with on your expenses?

[gettin2dizzy]

Now MPs are demanding a ?23,000 lump sum to cover their 'second home' expenses. By making it an unreceipted lump sum we can no longer see what they've spent it on. This seems absurd to me, how can they claim for every journey they make, their rent/mortgage, ?4500 a year for food, Sky TV rental, decoration, window cleaning, gardening... The list is endless. Isn't this what you EARN your wage for?! Could you imagine having to explain these expenses to your boss or having all of your expenses covered for you?

With an average salary in the UK of ?23,700 it seems utterly unthinkable that these ?"eft wing" politicians could summon such a salary. Currently they get (amongst other allowances):

- Annual salary ?61,820
- Second-home allowance ?23,083 (maximum)
- Travel 40p per mile for up to 10,000 miles; 25p after that
- Pension 1/40th of salary
- Resettlement grant up to 100 per cent of final salary, with first ?30,000 tax free

No wonder they tax everything to the hilt as their expenses are covered. Does any MP feel the current pressure experienced by us when they've never paid for a tank of fuel? Travel first class of trains for free? Have an ?86 a week subsidy for their food?

It's a poor state of affairs folks :( And one I can't see getting any better. Mr Cameron is also an advocate to this dishonest theft from an over-worked, over-taxed police state.

[G]

It's a poor state of affairs folks :( And one I can't see getting any better.


It wont thats why.......

Every forum chat and every real life dicussion is usually about the sorry state of this country now.

It can only ever go down hill in my eyes, unless someone gets ruthless.......again.......

[the_lone_wolf]

resurrect maggie thatcher...




just joking, she was dead the first time:smt103

[G]

In answer to your original question.......about +10 miles per journey lol.....at a stupidly small pence per mile so it still doesnt cover the cost of the journey.

[Biker Biggles]

Salery ?62000.There the problem.Look at what comperable jobs command elsewhere and its double or treble that.Hence we fudge it by having a ludicrous expenses system that looks bad and leads to a Prescotian "must claim for everything" mentality.The answer is to pay them the going rate and nothing more.They then live on that.

[Skip]

It is a sorry state of affairs and in answer to your question absolutely nothing here! :(

[gettin2dizzy]

Salery ?62000.There the problem.Look at what comperable jobs command elsewhere and its double or treble that.Hence we fudge it by having a ludicrous expenses system that looks bad and leads to a Prescotian "must claim for everything" mentality.The answer is to pay them the going rate and nothing more.They then live on that.
So THEY claim it's not comparable. But for the crap job they do, in other industries they would have been fired a long time ago. Being an etonian is not a qualification and as such should not command you a position in to old boys club government. I wouldn't trust these guys to hold their own d!cks never mind hold a reasoned debate.

As another figure for you:
There are over 1000 unregulated government quangos
Last year they spent over ?60 billion!

[Grinch]

Why do they get a second home allowance at all?

[G]

Why do they get a second home allowance at all?

Because of the time they have to spend between London and their constituency.

However if any other mortal took a job like that, then they knew what they were doing before they took the job....so tough.

If you live in manchester, you dont take a job in london without expecting to have to relocate.

[Grinch]

I wish I could get a grant like that, I have to pay extra rent to stay in London and fund my travel up there.

[SoulKiss]

Because of the time they have to spend between London and their constituency.

However if any other mortal took a job like that, then they knew what they were doing before they took the job....so tough.

If you live in manchester, you dont take a job in london without expecting to have to relocate.

They cannot relocate as their job isnt really comparable - they work in their local area, but are called to Head Office regularly is the closest comparison.

But why do they need a second home.

Some kind of "Halls of Residence" arrangement woiuld be much cheaper for us and would provide them with what they need, somewhere to sleep when away from home.

[neio79]

The UK needs a modern day Hitler to wipe the slate clean and sort the UK out, obviously minus the genocide and taking over europe. well actually keep the taking europe.

[lukemillar]

Easy answer - Become an MP! Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me!

[neio79]

Easy answer - Become an MP! Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me!


would love to, dont think my extreme views would go down to well in westminster though;)

[Grinch]

Yep its not like they doing anything, 2 homes... sounds great.

[gettin2dizzy]

Especially if you look at the miniscule amount of time many MPs spend down there in London.

With an allowance that can be spent on a mortgage it's always going to be open to abuse. If this covered rent only at least they couldn't profit from it.

[G]

would love to, dont think my extreme views would go down to well in westminster though;)

And sadly thats half the problem.....even less extreme views like stopping further immigration and sending back ones that arnt in employment would help.

Then create a better benefits system where only the seriously incapacitated get benefits. So what if you cant walk......you sit at home all day watching jeremy kyle....your more than capable of sitting at work all day typing data into a computer.

[neio79]

And sadly thats half the problem.....even less extreme views like stopping further immigration and sending back ones that arnt in employment would help.

Then create a better benefits system where only the seriously incapacitated get benefits. So what if you cant walk......you sit at home all day watching jeremy kyle....your more than capable of sitting at work all day typing data into a computer.


Yep,

Imigration, stop it we are stretched to the limits now in some areas, critical areas like schooling and healthcare. Councills hace to put up tax to cover the simple things that go up due to more people like refuse collection. I would ban anyone from anything other than life saving healthcare unless they have worked and paid tax and NI for 2 years minimum

Benefits would be scrapped for all immigrants as well. Asylum no such thing in the UK unless Europe is overrun anyday soon.

Police, total policing policy across the UK with maximum punishments being given as standard, prisons to become living hell holes.

Scrap ALL overseas aid the UK has problems that need sorting out first and foremost before we help others.

I could go on all day about the things I would change but I won’t bore you all, I am well known for my extreme views in sorting out the UK.

But I might start a website as a joke to outline my policies and see how many members of the general uk joe average would support them? I am sick of the UK and the way its run, we need to take as stand and sort this cess pit out once and for all.

[gettin2dizzy]

Benefits would be scrapped for all immigrants as well. Asylum no such thing in the UK unless Europe is overrun anyday soon.
I wonder how we can spend that money paying for them, yet refuse to spend a penny on the elderly. They should be taken care of first, and deserve a far better standard of living than they do. It was only recently that couple decided to starve to death in their homes rather than go in to care under this government :( Have things really reached that level?!



Scrap ALL overseas aid the UK has problems that need sorting out first and foremost before we help others.

We gave £1billion to India last year. -India has more millionaire and billionaires than the UK by a long way! Anyway, doesn't charity start at home?





Police, total policing policy across the UK with maximum punishments being given as standard, prisons to become living hell holes.

Prisoners to work AFAIK. We could do with some new roads to curb the huge population we have for this primitive aged road network we suffer from. However total policing is a difficult subject. The police are marked on how many arrests they make. Should we not rate how good society by how many arrests we DON'T make?! Prevention is the key, not targetting people for minor crimes to make up the numbers. Our paper pushing society is our ruin.

[neio79]

I wonder how we can spend that money paying for them, yet refuse to spend a penny on the elderly. They should be taken care of first, and deserve a far better standard of living than they do. It was only recently that couple decided to starve to death in their homes rather than go in to care under this government :( Have things really reached that level?!


We gave £1billion to India last year. -India has more millionaire and billionaires than the UK by a long way! Anyway, doesn't charity start at home?


Prisoners to work AFAIK. We could do with some new roads to curb the huge population we have for this primitive aged road network we suffer from. However total policing is a difficult subject. The police are marked on how many arrests they make. Should we not rate how good society by how many arrests we DON'T make?! Prevention is the key, not targetting people for minor crimes to make up the numbers. Our paper pushing society is our ruin.

Exactly, the first two points highligh that the UK has its own problems and needs to sort them out first rather than throw money at countries because they tug at our heat strings.

We owe India nothing, and dont anyone start with this cr*p about the way we treated them in the colonial days, or we should be looking at Italy, Norway and Germany for componsetoin on the way the Romans, Saxons and Vikings treated us in the past.

Yep 3rd point, chain gangs should be able to help speed up road works a bit :cool: But its the fluffy approach that has got us to the state we are in because the police are held back and meant to be nice and look to prevent first. No no, no you brea the law yo usuffer the conciquences, anyhow the more prisoners we hav the faster we can build those roads ;):thumright:

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Ultimately the problem is that it doesn't matter how scandelous and corrupt a story The Sun can come up with on government, most people will turn straight to the back to read the sports section. In short - things won't change, because no-one cares.

G2D also makes a good point - ?60k for the level of responsibility MP's have, especially ministers, isn't very much when you consider comparable jobs in the private sector. Whether a serious increase in salary would attract more able politicians is difficult to say though. Public sectory salaries are something I think need a serious look at though. I certainly wouldn't consider getting shot at for ?16k a year for example. And it's little wonder teaching standards aren't as good as they should be. We should have some of the brightest people teaching - but why would anyone with a degree commit to a life time of pittyful pay when you can earn many times more elsewhere? A point lost on the government it would seem.

[G]

And it's little wonder teaching standards aren't as good as they should be. We should have some of the brightest people teaching - but why would anyone with a degree commit to a life time of pittyful pay when you can earn many times more elsewhere? A point lost on the government it would seem.

If you would believe what the exam boards say.....then more people are passing than ever :thumright: (Because they have made it so easy to pass now)

No offence is meant towards any capable teachers on here, but of all the people I know from uni, the ones that were crap and always failed or got rubbish marks went on to be teachers, mainly because their intended industry wouldnt take them and the teaching industry would.

That is why standards are so crap.

Those that cant DO, teach.

[wyrdness]

The Royal Mail lost £279 million last year, but their boss got paid £3 million. So it seems a bit silly to be moaning about a few tens of thousands for the people who are running the country yet are paid a tiny fraction of what top businessmen are earning.

[gettin2dizzy]

If you would believe what the exam boards say.....then more people are passing than ever :thumright: (Because they have made it so easy to pass now)

No offence is meant towards any capable teachers on here, but of all the people I know from uni, the ones that were crap and always failed or got rubbish marks went on to be teachers, mainly because their intended industry wouldnt take them and the teaching industry would.

That is why standards are so crap.

Those that cant DO, teach.
I know many teachers, some highly qualified and striving to make a difference but battling against the endless paperwork and testing enforced by NuLabour. We now teach to pass exams, not to learn the subject. I for one am pretty well qualified yet won’t hesitate to say certain subject areas I have studied I have no understanding in. I worked hard just learning what would let me pass the exams because that is ALL that counts these days. Is that any surprise?

Well no. We’re a bitter nation who compare ourselves to our neighbour rather than judge their happiness on their success. We love to believe “we” have had it harder than the current ‘youth’, and as such impose more and more tests, exams, standards and excuses. Exams are set by those who’ve never left academia; the ones that exam grades mean everything, the ones angered by their strife at the subject and keen to pass it on generation by generation.

Exams are getting tougher as more work is crammed in to a shorter period of time over a long education career without break from assessment. As such the only way to pass these tests is to ‘cheat’ by learning how to pass them and ignoring any understanding of the content. This is only encouraged by teachers who too have ‘targets’ set by Mr Browns terror-army.

There’s such a difference between the standards of subjects. Try and compare a maths A-level to a ‘photography’ or media studies A-level .The difference is staggering and only devalues the work put in by the students trying to achieve a high grade in a reputable subject.

We should be teaching children to have a passion for learning, how to deal with social situations, current affairs, philosophy, why you can do your own thing and not fall in to NuLabours trap of producing ‘bodies’ incapable of complex thought, of free ideas and questioning the why’s and how’s of this world!

[neio79]

The Royal Mail lost £279 million last year, but their boss got paid £3 million. So it seems a bit silly to be moaning about a few tens of thousands for the people who are running the country yet are paid a tiny fraction of what top businessmen are earning.

I dont think its the actuall money, as you saycompared to industry its not a lot. But the priciple of it smacks a bit.

Why should they live susedised in every aspect of their life. It means they are out of touch with the majority in this country and therfore devoid of the issues affecting us, like the rise in food, energy and fuel.

if i hada 89 a week allowance towards food, the increase would not bother me, now if i was claiming 40p a mile for fuel, why would i care the price keeps going up??

bottom line no one deserves to live that well supported efectivly by the state, they are just as bad as the benifits scroungers in this country doing the same thing.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Trouble is, if MPs were affected by tax rules like everyone else, then all that would happen is they'd change the tax rules so they were the least hard hit.

[gettin2dizzy]

Trouble is, if MPs were affected by tax rules like everyone else, then all that would happen is they'd change the tax rules so they were the least hard hit.
Haven't they already? rather than increasing their salary they've given themselves a ?23k allowance that they can spend on anything that is....of course... untaxed ;)

[Wayluya]

Paying a big salary does not automatically mean you don't still get a monkey.....but not paying a big salary means you do either get the monkey OR folk who will make up the difference by other means.......not to say of course not plenty of snouts in the Trough, and quite often legally.

FWIW I think the UK is fooked and this time ain't no cure - too many vested interests in a culture of short sighted stupidity that is now regarded as "Normal".

[gettin2dizzy]

I think it's worth fighting our way out of this ditch. The UKs heritage goes far deeper than their current problems, and can overcome them with sufficient leadership and direction. Labour have done it before and we survived then, and we can do it again. It's time to turn to our industries and get them working once more, to rebuild the infastructure neglected for so long, to utilise the academic prowess locked up in lecture rooms around the country :) We've got the know-how, the manpower and the ingenuity to pull it off. We just need something or someone to unite us under the same dream :)

Britannia Rules right? ;)

First of all we should make the media accountable for what they publish, remove the tax breaks attributed to the super wealthy, remove micro management of our lives, allow communities to have say, open all governement transactions to public scrutiny, reward small businness and ventures by generous tax breaks, take a stern view of the benefits system, make provision for the elderly, and of course GET OUT OF THE EU!

[Luckypants]

remove the tax breaks attributed to the super wealthy,

What are these? IMO wealthy folks are treated exactly the same as the less well off by the tax system.

[G]

What are these? IMO wealthy folks are treated exactly the same as the less well off by the tax system.

I'm not sure, but I read somewhere the super rich were taxed differently....IE billionaires got taxed something small like 20% on UK earnings rather than the full rate so that they didnt take their business elsewhere.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

First of all we should make the media accountable for what they publish, remove the tax breaks attributed to the super wealthy, remove micro management of our lives, allow communities to have say, open all governement transactions to public scrutiny, reward small businness and ventures by generous tax breaks, take a stern view of the benefits system, make provision for the elderly, and of course GET OUT OF THE EU!

Why? We need foster a confidence and drive to succeed - I don't see how punishing anyone who actually manages that is going to help. We really need to get over this mentality of "well, I'm not well off/rich/otherwise successful, so noone else should be either" and replace it with "well I'm not well off/rich/otherwise successful, so how can I change that?"

Other than that, good stuff.

[neio79]

What are these? IMO wealthy folks are treated exactly the same as the less well off by the tax system.

err what about the 10p tax scrapping making the lowest paid worse of then??

[G]

err what about the 10p tax scrapping making the lowest paid worse of then??

Wealthy people lost the 10% tax rate as well you know :-$

[neio79]

Wealthy people lost the 10% tax rate as well you know :-$


well yes but for some reason it hits the porrest paid the most, that is what i meant.

[punyXpress]

Ultimately the problem is that it doesn't matter how scandelous and corrupt a story The Sun can come up with on government, most people will turn straight to the back to read the sports section. In short - things won't change, because no-one cares.

G2D also makes a good point - ?60k for the level of responsibility MP's have, especially ministers, isn't very much when you consider comparable jobs in the private sector. Whether a serious increase in salary would attract more able politicians is difficult to say though. Public sectory salaries are something I think need a serious look at though. I certainly wouldn't consider getting shot at for ?16k a year for example. And it's little wonder teaching standards aren't as good as they should be. We should have some of the brightest people teaching - but why would anyone with a degree commit to a life time of pittyful pay when you can earn many times more elsewhere? A point lost on the government it would seem.
The good burghers of Crewe & Nantwich cared. It's a start.

[timwilky]

err what about the 10p tax scrapping making the lowest paid worse of then??

Of course it would. it is obvious that if you double the starting rate of tax. (They did not scrap the starting rate, they doubled it to 20%, and then reduced the second rate from 22% to 20%). Those who pay a substantial amount of their tax at the starting rate, would not benefit as much as those who pay most of their tax at the old 22% who saw an overall reduction.

By now only having 2 rates of 20% and 40%. the spin doctors were able to say they have scrapped the starting rate. No they doubled it and scrapped the second tier. The only way they could have "scrapped" the old starting rate, would have been to increase personal allowances to mean you only start paying tax at the threshold where the second tier existed.

[gettin2dizzy]

Why? We need foster a confidence and drive to succeed - I don't see how punishing anyone who actually manages that is going to help. We really need to get over this mentality of "well, I'm not well off/rich/otherwise successful, so noone else should be either" and replace it with "well I'm not well off/rich/otherwise successful, so how can I change that?"

Other than that, good stuff.
My bad wording, sorry. I'm not talking about successful businessmen here as I also believe that you need to be rewarded. They've contributed their bit financially and more importantly; socially to society and shouldn't be penalised for succeeding. But I don't like the way that the SUPER rich can avoid tax. Rather it should be capped at a level that inspires them to keep their interest here, whilst not allowing them to take advantage of clever accountants.

[Warthog]

The UK needs a modern day Hitler to wipe the slate clean and sort the UK out, obviously minus the genocide and taking over europe. well actually keep the taking europe.

During the rule of the Nazi party half of the members lived in extreme luxury. Hitler tried to be rather modest admittedly but Goering lived in the lap of luxury as did many others. Not to mention the vast building work of palaces and hunting lodges that everyone in the nazi party commissioned, plus most of them had private trains and planes to get around. The nazis are not a good model for being frugal at the height of power!

[SoulKiss]

When I come to power I will gather up all the money in the country and distribute it to everyone equally.

Then, when I have spent my share I will do it again.

[neio79]

When I come to power I will gather up all the money in the country and distribute it to everyone equally.

Then, when I have spent my share I will do it again.


ahh modern comunisum at its best, you know that idea dosent work dont you?? ;)

[Luckypants]

My bad wording, sorry. I'm not talking about successful businessmen here as I also believe that you need to be rewarded. They've contributed their bit financially and more importantly; socially to society and shouldn't be penalised for succeeding. But I don't like the way that the SUPER rich can avoid tax. Rather it should be capped at a level that inspires them to keep their interest here, whilst not allowing them to take advantage of clever accountants.

The tax loopholes that may (or may not) be exploited by the wealthy are open to all UK taxpayers. It is just that the amount (not to be confused with the level e.g. 40%) of tax these wealthy individuals would pay make it worthwhile using every means to reduce their tax bill. It's no different from buy a TV or anything else, you pay the least amount possible.

now if you employ a decent accountant, not only will they likely reduce your tax bill, but probably will give you a few tips on what you can 'claim on expenses' to. This brings us back to the original point.

I can claim nothing these days. But I do know folks that have had conservatories, TV's etc allowed as legitimate business expenses..... :smt098

[Wayluya]

The Super Wealthy have.......accountants :p

A lot (if not most) of the Super Wealthy are not British or were not born here, meaning they get to be Non-Doms, and essentially this means they can hold most of their assets abroad where they can grow unfettered by minor irritants like income and capital taxes. And it's amazing how yer money grows without sh#t like that :rolleyes:

[SoulKiss]

ahh modern comunisum at its best, you know that idea dosent work dont you?? ;)

Yes it does - in Star Trek they have a communist police state and everyone seems happy :)

The only problem with communism is that while everyone is equal, there are always those who think they should be more equal than everyone else.

[gettin2dizzy]

Yes it does - in Star Trek they have a communist police state and everyone seems happy :)

The only problem with communism is that while everyone is equal, there are always those who think they should be more equal than everyone else.
Equality doesn't imply that everyone is equal ;)

[neio79]

Yes it does - in Star Trek they have a communist police state and everyone seems happy :)

The only problem with communism is that while everyone is equal, there are always those who think they should be more equal than everyone else.


i.e human nature, and why it will never work other than in theory.

Human needs are finite but human wants are infinte, so it all falls down.