Bike fuel protests in manchester

[markmoto]

what do people think about this? i personaly think anything that prods the goverment abit is a good thing but it needs to gather momentum which most of the other fuel protests havent done, i think this is a better idea than blockading the refineries because the goverment knows we cant keep that up for long, public displays of mass protest are one of the better ways to do it imo.
What do others think about what they have done in manchester?

[Alpinestarhero]

The whole country should get together; everyone is up in arms about it, but few people are doing something to voice their opinions.

[G]

This is the first I have heard of a bike fuel protest :( so I doubt many politicians will know about it.

I dont know what the answer is though, apart from keep stumping up the cash lol

[timwilky]

see http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1052029_bikers_plan_city_fuel_protest_

[markmoto]

Been all over the news and radio mate :D

[G]

Been all over the news and radio mate :D

In manchester maybe.

I listen to radio 1/2 and watch the main/local news here and havnt heard a thing until today.

Fuel protests need to be national not local if they are ever to make any difference.

[markmoto]

In manchester maybe.

I listen to radio 1/2 and watch the main/local news here and havnt heard a thing until today.

Fuel protests need to be national not local if they are ever to make any difference.

Been on the national news, but yes i quite agree its something that needs to be in mass and very organised but alas most people couldnt be arsed they would rather moan about it than do anything about it, wonder how high the prices need to go before people are forced to do something about it, £5 a litre maybe, i can see that before the end of 2010. £2 a litre by the end of the year i recon.

[G]

Been on the national news, but yes i quite agree its something that needs to be in mass and very organised but alas most people couldnt be arsed they would rather moan about it than do anything about it, wonder how high the prices need to go before people are forced to do something about it, £5 a litre maybe, i can see that before the end of 2010. £2 a litre by the end of the year i recon.

A survey showed ?2 a litre before people would really start doing anything :(

They also predict ?1.60 before the end of summer :elephant:

[Grinch]

As I have said before... anyone care to join me in a ride to Downing Street.

[gettin2dizzy]

A survey showed ?2 a litre before people would really start doing anything :(

They also predict ?1.60 before the end of summer :elephant:
It was 1.50 a litre before people would complain and 1.50 by the end of summer. Just shows how much it's soaring!

Tbh we've had cheap fuel for a long time, and it's not surprising we're now having to suffer as a consequence.

I'm hit probably the most by this change as I'm on a low income, have a long daily commute (35miles each way), and have family / girlfriend in different corners of the country than me. But I've changed my driving habits alot to compensate.

I take my bike for all long journeys now but also:
I drive at 65mph in my car - that delivers an extra 150 miles to a tank of fuel (albeit massively overpriced diesel @ over £70/tank)
I drive smoothly on my bike at 70mph which gives over 200 miles per tank (apart from when I'm out 'for a ride')
I do a lift share with two other people. That's but my fuel bill to a third of what it was for work journies

I seem to notice more and more people slowing down on the motorway, but the majority still drive at 90+, so this 'crisis' is only hurting those of us on such tight budgets. I think that needs to be recognised and duly acted upon

[Viney]

I predict a riot, however, no one can afford the petrol for the molotov cocktails :lol:

[G]

so this 'crisis' is only hurting those of us on such tight budgets. I think that needs to be recognised and duly acted upon


I dont think its fair to disciminate, which I think is what you may be suggesting if I read that right?

One price for all, just a cheaper price.

It hits everybody, some people get fuel cards and then some people who are doing 400miles a day would rather get home an 1hour+ earlier than sit at 60mph.

[SoulKiss]

I predict a riot, however, no one can afford the petrol for the molotov cocktails :lol:

Just pad the petrol out with some fairy liquid..................

[markmoto]

On a positive note i think that the price increase is making people think more about there dependency on fuel/oil at the end of the day joking aside oil is a finite resourse and in 100 years have already used up a huge chunk of it, many oil fields are in decline i,e they have reached there peak output and the amount of oil they are producing is beginning to fall this is happening on own doorstep in the northsea, yet our demend for oil and gas is going up! very worrying as the gas we are going to have to buy in to sustain our needs is alot more expensive than the gas we have sold from our reserves. I think people need to look at there expenditure on fuel begining now because its only going to get worse, my future bike, car choices will be as much based on fuel economy as much as it will be other things. We are living very unsustainable lifestyles and things need to change!! just my pennysworth!

Im sure people will continue to use it regardless buying 4.0l cars picking the kids up from school in the chelsea tractors until every last drop has gone but then i guess thats thats human intelligence ;)

[gettin2dizzy]

I dont think its fair to disciminate, which I think is what you may be suggesting if I read that right?

One price for all, just a cheaper price.

It hits everybody, some people get fuel cards and then some people who are doing 400miles a day would rather get home an 1hour+ earlier than sit at 60mph.
I don't think there should be two different prices, but I do think it need to be recognised that fuel is an essential. This price I can cope with, but increase it further and I'm going to really struggle.

I'd just like the government to start subsidising essentials such as fresh veg. I noticed this weekend that some veg is more expensive by weight than meat was 6 months ago! Not only would this help us all out, but the money could be taken directly away from all these campaigns to do with the obese.

[markmoto]

I don't think there should be two different prices, but I do think it need to be recognised that fuel is an essential. This price I can cope with, but increase it further and I'm going to really struggle.

I'd just like the government to start subsidising essentials such as fresh veg. I noticed this weekend that some veg is more expensive by weight than meat was 6 months ago! Not only would this help us all out, but the money could be taken directly away from all these campaigns to do with the obese.

What did we do before we had fuel?! what will be do when there is no more Fuel?! forget running cars etc on vegetable oil there isnt enough space in the world to grow enough aswell as food. So that rules ethanol out aswell! we need a new technology and we need it fast.

[timwilky]

We also need to think again about where people work/live.

For the past 50 plus years we have moved people out of the employment zones or created new industrial parks miles from anywhere etc. Now in order to work. People must commute. However, outside of the large cities, public transport is not an option. It simply does not exist.

I am fortunate and work 90% of my time from home. My biggest expense the 80 miles/day commute is a thing of the past. Employers must start to think, does this need to be done by somebody sat in this office or can it be done (often cheaper) remotely. Additionally when businesses relocate they should be required to undertake an assessment as to the impact upon employees.

[2mths]

On a positive note i think that the price increase is making people think more about there dependency on fuel/oil at the end of the day joking aside oil is a finite resourse and in 100 years have already used up a huge chunk of it, many oil fields are in decline i,e they have reached there peak output and the amount of oil they are producing is beginning to fall this is happening on own doorstep in the northsea, yet our demend for oil and gas is going up! very worrying as the gas we are going to have to buy in to sustain our needs is alot more expensive than the gas we have sold from our reserves. I think people need to look at there expenditure on fuel begining now because its only going to get worse, my future bike, car choices will be as much based on fuel economy as much as it will be other things. We are living very unsustainable lifestyles and things need to change!! just my pennysworth!

Im sure people will continue to use it regardless buying 4.0l cars picking the kids up from school in the chelsea tractors until every last drop has gone but then i guess thats thats human intelligence ;)

I was going to make this comment if it hadn't already been made - it has and I think quite well so I shan't repeat the above.

We (humanity) have got to change our ways if we want to survive and yet maintain something like the lifestyle many enjoy today. So much as the price increases pain me, I agree that it's actually doing some good in terms of getting the issue into people's awareness. It's a shame that most of the money is going into the pockets of relatively few (oil company shareholders) and not towards the R&D of alternatives.

My car\bike decisions have been influenced by fuel costs for the last ten years (all the time I've been riding\driving). I'm saddened as I realise now I'm never going to be able to afford to drive anything approaching my 'dream' cars\bikes, well not powered by IC engines anyway.

I agree that the fact that the increases hit some (low income) more than others is a serious issue. However artificialy lowering the price carte blanche isn't the answer. I don't know what is.

The relative inefficiency of modern cars (and bikes) really annoys me. If they were made lighter they would use less fuel. People want more, not less though. However vehicles are only a part of the problem and changes in their design are going to be determined by economics rather than foresight.

Personaly and this might sounds odd, but looking to the future my plan for personal survival is to look for happyness is simpler ways, accepting that at some point in my lifetime it's possible that the idea of driving\riding around for fun will be a thing of the past (or the passtime of the rich).

[markmoto]

We also need to think again about where people work/live.

For the past 50 plus years we have moved people out of the employment zones or created new industrial parks miles from anywhere etc. Now in order to work. People must commute. However, outside of the large cities, public transport is not an option. It simply does not exist.

I am fortunate and work 90% of my time from home. My biggest expense the 80 miles/day commute is a thing of the past. Employers must start to think, does this need to be done by somebody sat in this office or can it be done (often cheaper) remotely. Additionally when businesses relocate they should be required to undertake an assessment as to the impact upon employees.

Nail on head!! exactly my thoughts i also used to do a 40mile commute daily five years ago and even then the costs of fuel added up wouldnt like to have ot do that now, peoples whole lifestyles need to change to make living more economical boring i know but there you go...

[G]

Additionally when businesses relocate they should be required to undertake an assessment as to the impact upon employees.

If they are moving into a new premises they have to.

Also these new business parks they build everywhere, to get planning approval green plans have to be produced, stating how people will get to work etc

There alot more thought goes into it than you would think.

I could do my job from home entirely alas that wont happen in the near future.

[markmoto]

I was going to make this comment if it hadn't already been made - it has and I think quite well so I shan't repeat the above.

We (humanity) have got to change our ways if we want to survive and yet maintain something like the lifestyle many enjoy today. So much as the price increases pain me, I agree that it's actually doing some good in terms of getting the issue into people's awareness. It's a shame that most of the money is going into the pockets of relatively few (oil company shareholders) and not towards the R&D of alternatives.

My car\bike decisions have been influenced by fuel costs for the last ten years (all the time I've been riding\driving). I'm saddened as I realise now I'm never going to be able to afford to drive anything approaching my 'dream' cars\bikes, well not powered by IC engines anyway.

I agree that the fact that the increases hit some (low income) more than others is a serious issue. However artificialy lowering the price carte blanche isn't the answer. I don't know what is.

The relative inefficiency of modern cars (and bikes) really annoys me. If they were made lighter they would use less fuel. People want more, not less though. However vehicles are only a part of the problem and changes in their design are going to be determined by economics rather than foresight.

Personaly and this might sounds odd, but looking to the future my plan for personal survival is to look for happyness is simpler ways, accepting that at some point in my lifetime it's possible that the idea of driving\riding around for fun will be a thing of the past (or the passtime of the rich).

very well worded post and i agree with it all, and the last bit certainly makes alot of sense to me. Nice one ;)

[timwilky]

If they are moving into a new premises they have to.

Also these new business parks they build everywhere, to get planning approval green plans have to be produced, stating how people will get to work etc

There alot more thought goes into it than you would think.

I could do my job from home entirely alas that wont happen in the near future.

Well my employers moved from Trafford Park to Knutsford. for 80% there was increased travel of about 15 miles. Most of the low earners voted with their feet as they could no longer use public transport to/from work. No extra pay to cover increase travel costs etc. And local housing far too expensive

[gettin2dizzy]

What did we do before we had fuel?! what will be do when there is no more Fuel?! forget running cars etc on vegetable oil there isnt enough space in the world to grow enough aswell as food. So that rules ethanol out aswell! we need a new technology and we need it fast.
Myth alert! ;) Greatly publicised by the media to cause a stir, but that's not exactly a surprise. We're producing more food than we can consume at the moment hence why farmers have been producing biofuels instead. The profit on it is miniscule but it's better than producing hundreds of tons of grain that will be stored and not used.

Providing we can keep the population pretty steady we'll be absolutely fine, we just need to learn how to be more careful and become less greedy. It helps governments no end to let us think that we're on the brink of collapse at any time, to make us grateful for what we have and attribute it to their control.

I agree with 2mths though, I think that this may help some of us grasp reality a little. We're so materialistic in this country it's our own demise. Our greed outweighs our desire for happiness, robs us of any time to ourselves and turns us in to a nation of overweight, braindead 'bodies' paid merely for attendance. Free thought has been replaced with preconceived judgement, intelligent prowess second to second-rate fame and individuality forgotten (ironically) for fear of being different!

[Dave The Rave]

Only problem is that there is no shortage of oil at the moment. We just don't produce enough. 1/2 the problem with today prices is that they are pushed shy high on comodity markets (optons and futures etc). I for once predict price per barel go down to $70-80 per barell. Yet I still think that petrol will remain expensive anyway.

[G]

Under the Ice caps etc of the artic and antartic there is more than 10 x the oil that has already been used/is left easy obtainable.

The only reason they cant get at it is because an agreement that was made to protect the environment for 50 years......which runs out in about 7 years.

This is the reason russia/the uk/america and loads of other countries keep trying to lay claim to bigger parts of the ocean floor sorrounding it.

[Woz]

I have been saying for years that there is only one way to get the cost of petrol down and that is to hit the oil companies in the pocket. This has been tried before but it was done completely wrong.

Remember all the calls to avoid buying petrol on a particular day? How can that work 'cos you just have to buy it the following day.

What we need to do as a nation is to boycott a single company (BP for example as the are a British company) for an extended period of time. As their profits rapidly disappear, imagine the pressure they would put on the government to do something about the levels of tax.

Never underestimate the power of big business taxpayers when it comes to government policy.

The main problem as I see it is the company car driver who claims all his petrol expenses back as he doesn't care what it costs.

[Red Herring]

The other issue is that it is not just us, the current users, who are going to cause the problems. It's all very well me buying a smaller car, or working nearer home, but whatever I, or even the entire population of the UK, could achieve in terms of reducing our fuel consumption will be a drop in the ocean compared to the forecast growth in oil demand from countries like China as their populations become wealthier, (ironically enough on money from us buying their cheap products) and they all start to swop their push bikes and C90's for BMW X5's........

[Gene genie]

I have been saying for years that there is only one way to get the cost of petrol down and that is to hit the oil companies in the pocket. This has been tried before but it was done completely wrong.


Remember all the calls to avoid buying petrol on a particular day? How can that work 'cos you just have to buy it the following day.


What we need to do as a nation is to boycott a single company (BP for example as the are a British company) for an extended period of time. As their profits rapidly disappear, imagine the pressure they would put on the government to do something about the levels of tax.


Never underestimate the power of big business taxpayers when it comes to government policy.


The main problem as I see it is the company car driver who claims all his petrol expenses back as he doesn't care what it costs.

i received an e-mail a few weeks back that suggested doing exactly that. sounds like quite a good idea.

[Red Herring]

Can you let me know first which one it is going to be please, I'll need to sell all my shares....

[2mths]

Under the Ice caps etc of the artic and antartic there is more than 10 x the oil that has already been used/is left easy obtainable.

Even if that is true (I have my doubts) we will still use it all up. There is only a finite amount. We (global human population) are using oil in ever increasing amounts. China is just starting to industrialise. Lesser economically developed countries are becoming more and more 'developed'. In short demand is going up and up, we will run out. It's not a question of if it's a question of when. We might never face that problem in our lifetimes, but humanity will and the sooner it accepts that and starts to prepare the better.

[Gene genie]

Can you let me know first which one it is going to be please, I'll need to sell all my shares....
esso and bp. they reckon if we all buy petrol from all other sources and hit the two biggies the hardest the price will fall to 69p a litre, hmmm maybe.

[2mths]

The boycott a company or two email has been going around for years. For an independant corroboration of this (and comments as to why it's a load of rubbish) have a peek at http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp It's focused around the American branded emails but it's all the same concept.

It's not the oil companies that are putting the prices up. It's speculation about the cost\price of oil in the future. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article3982900.ece Not a brilliant article but explains some of the points and somethign I found quickly trhough google.

If people want to know\learn more about the underlying mechanics of this a good start would be to look up an explanation of "Supply and Demand" economic theory.

[philipMac]

You might as well be protesting the high price of street heroin.
The Government (rightly) taxes petrol. (Although how they in turn spend those taxes is another question.)
The oil companies are aware that we are hopeless addicts. They push the prises as high as they feel the market can take.

Us protesting on the streets will have as much of an effect on the board room choices Exon make as it would on the Opium producing overlords in Asia. They simply couldn't care less.
We need petrol.
We buy petrol.

The idea that now we drill under the ice cap because its melted is nauseating.
Its essentially saying "we seem to be screwed, although how about we just stick a few more nails in our coffin here while we are at it". If anyone thinks that the oil companies are going to do anything with this oil than keep us strung out another while longer, they are deluding themselves.

[Woz]

The Government (rightly) taxes petrol.


Twice. Which is quite wrong. They add the duty to the original cost and then add VAT to the total. That is paying tax on a tax.

[timwilky]

Am I the only one who seems to think the government has had an additional windfall with the massive increase over the past few months in terms of the added VAT raised. They must be seeing about 4p/Litre in extra VAT coming their way already.

[philipMac]

Twice. Which is quite wrong. They add the duty to the original cost and then add VAT to the total. That is paying tax on a tax.

(Businesses may be entitled to VAT back. )

I think its absolutely reasonable to tax petrol fairly stringently.
Driving about in your car/bike is a luxury, and people should be made understand that.


You can go out today and buy a car that easily gets 70 something mpg (diesel Lupo). You dont need to drive a big inefficient car.
People give out about car companies, and oil companies, and turn around and buy big inefficient cars/trucks.

This trend is particularly clear in the US.
Ow ow ow ow*hitting hand with hammer* it Huuuurts...so much pain... *crunching noise* Oh God I think I broke something! ITS SO UNFAIIIRR!

[gettin2dizzy]

(Businesses may be entitled to VAT back. )

I think its absolutely reasonable to tax petrol fairly stringently.
Driving about in your car/bike is a luxury, and people should be made understand that.


You can go out today and buy a car that easily gets 70 something mpg (diesel Lupo).
I hate paying so much for fuel, but I think you're right.

However, to get the 70mpg you need a road network capable of supporting flowing traffic. For the billions of pounds we spend a year in tax I think it isn't unreasonable to expect the governemnt to do their bit.

And Tim, yeah the governement will apprently bring in an extra £2billion this year even without the extra 2p / litre duty scheduled for autumn.

[philipMac]

I hate paying so much for fuel, but I think you're right.

However, to get the 70mpg you need a road network capable of supporting flowing traffic.
I think right now you have a road network capable of supporting flowing traffic.
It is, however, clogged full of people in cars driving around. The attitude that every time you need to go anywhere you jump into the car and drive there (usually alone) is a problem.

If that is rectified by $200 dollar barrels of oil, great. Bring it on as far as I am concerned.


edit nothing to do with anything really... but another symptom of the problem: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/06/02/mexico.bikers.ap/index.html

[Camel]

Twice. Which is quite wrong. They add the duty to the original cost and then add VAT to the total. That is paying tax on a tax.

+1

I think what makes most of us sick is that alot of the tax generated is wasted. Plus we are being shafted by those who have our best interests atr heart.

Yeah, lets pay uber-high tax so we can pay for Blair's kitchen to get a makeover / pay for MP's food / tv licence / new tv etc etc etc.

Oh, and there is no way I'm going out to spend 8k on a car that does 70mpg. I can't afford it. I see your point saying that very econimocal cars exist, but it is not really an option for everyone.

[Mousetrapper]

If people want to know\learn more about the underlying mechanics of this a good start would be to look up an explanation of "Supply and Demand" economic theory.

A good start but most economists don't really see that increasing the demand, i.e. price of oil, won't actually increase the supply, flow of oil, by any great amount. In fact given the state of depletion of the world oil fields it is likely that is close or has been reached - 'Peak Oil'.

In fact since 2005 the production of 'All Liquids' which includes Crude Oil, biofuels, synthetic fuels has been flat at around 85 million barrels per day.

Since oil demand is relatively inelastic in the developed world, China and India are increasing their demand and supply is stalling this is why the price is going up.

In my opinion high fuel taxation has several advantages:
1. High taxation buffers volatility in fuel price when oil price is volatile. In the UK a doubling in the price of crude results in a 33% increase in the pump price. That may seem a lot but reducing personal fuel usage to get back to spending the same amount is a lot easier.
2. At some point the cost of fuel will have to effect consumption patterns (tax or no tax), having the tax to spend on public transport options, having longer to purchase more efficent transport options, moving closer to work, working closer to home can only be a good thing.

The sooner people realise that things are going to get more expensive, stop moaning and do something practical about it the better off they will be.

[gettin2dizzy]

When one minister had announced the solution for people on small budgets was easy, that they just had to buy a new economical car I almost burst laughing. What different lives 'they' lead!

I've started walking around to get food from the locals stores and it's been such a discovery :) There's a butchers and grocers 5 minutes away - fantastic! but they're always shut by the time I'm done with work! :( Our working hours and urban sprawl don't lend themselves well to this style of life. Knock 1 working day off a week, and the crazy overtime that's now normal and we'll be good :thumbsup: ;)

[Mousetrapper]

I've started walking around to get food from the locals stores and it's been such a discovery :)

Good stuff, along those lines I've just rented an allotment - now I just have to work out how to get the petrol strimmer I've got from work home on the bike!!

[gettin2dizzy]

Good stuff, along those lines I've just rented an allotment - now I just have to work out how to get the petrol strimmer I've got from work home on the bike!!
I would have loved to do that, but my contract ends in september so couldn't really justify it. They're so cheap here! ?3.50 / 10 square metres / year

[Woz]

now I just have to work out how to get the petrol strimmer I've got from work home on the bike!!

Petrol strimmer? Won't be able to afford to run that for too long. :rolleyes:

[Gene genie]

Petrol strimmer? Won't be able to afford to run that for too long. :rolleyes:
aren't strimmers agriculteral, so therefore they should be tax free. like agriculteral machinery i.e tractors run on red diesel which is about 18p a litre.
red diesel is the same as road diesel but with an additive in the form of a red dye to point out that no tax has been paid on it. so therefore its more expensive to produce, how much is road diesel before tax, 10p? its a mad world.:confused:

[dizzyblonde]

hmmmm bikers fuel protest.....before long I see somebody doing a Lady Godiva down to the house of parliament.....in fact perhaps they will ***** up their ears at hundreds of Lady Godivas.......because before long the only horse power available that won't cost the earth will be of the four legged variety

[markmoto]

aren't strimmers agriculteral, so therefore they should be tax free. like agriculteral machinery i.e tractors run on red diesel which is about 18p a litre.

red diesel is the same as road diesel but with an additive in the form of a red dye to point out that no tax has been paid on it. so therefore its more expensive to produce, how much is road diesel before tax, 10p? its a mad world.:confused:


Ive not seen a diesel strimmer that would be a beast :D, red diesel isnt the same as road diesel it is a lower grade of fuel suitable realy only for plant equipment. I did here somewhere that the government was going to do away with that concession. Get caught using that in your car and you will get more than a slapped wrist best stick to veggy oil :D

[yorkie_chris]

When one minister had announced the solution for people on small budgets was easy, that they just had to buy a new economical car I almost burst laughing. What different lives 'they' lead!


"Let them eat cake" eh

Led by morons...