View Full Version : PC support jobs.
DanAbnormal
03-06-08, 04:59 PM
Well, I'm looking to exit the telecomms industry after a whopping year and a half. Pay is not good and I can't see this place offering me any sort of progression. So, I want to get back into IT. I have been a systems analyst with no formal training in a previous job, I know my way around the hardware and software (XP, Vista) but probably not enough to support a network. I was thinking of doing a course and found the MCITP in Vista (and Server 2003). Hopefully this should get me a job as 1st/2nd line support on a starting salary of about 20k. I've spent too many years not knowing what to do and I need to be challenged daily. I love technology and want to have a career, or at least enjoy my job. I am looking to be Network A+ certified and then do the Vista 70-620 exam in a couple of months. Anyone else done similar? Any tips? I can't stand intensive training and do best at self paced type learning.
I work in Application Support now, and TBH, you probably don't need to do the MCITP to get a 1st/2nd line job in app support. User support it would be more handy, but then you'd have to deal with PEBKAC issues all the time. Yuk.
I've worked as various things in the past, including software dev, and I haven't seen any need for MS certifications. It's still a case where a large number of employers would look badly ad your CV if it had those letters on it!!
Right now, I'm in a team supporting approximately 1500 Server '03 machines, with each server having a mimumim of 45 XP Embedded terminals under it. Management offered a free MS certification, and everyone on the team laughed at them & suggested they change to Cisco qualifications, then we'd take them seriously.
My tip, start applying for jobs & going to interviews, you already know enough. Hell, we have a telecomms department, lots of other firms do to, so you could get a foot in the door there & then transfer over to a support role.
DanAbnormal
03-06-08, 05:17 PM
Thanks Baph. I already know bits and peices but I don't know all that much about networks/servers etc. I'm studying the network + at the moment (as it's free training just got to pay for the exam) so will apply after that.
Oh yea, also, there's 3 area's to PC support really:
- User Support (helpdesk jobs answering calls to folks that have no computer expierence usually - these roles usually have scripts to follow so there's no real need for knowledge to start with).
- Application support (helpdesk but application specific, all necessary training provided by the employer before 'go live').
- Hardware support (indepth hardware knowledge required more often than not).
TBH, we've got people in our office (though not the same team as me) that barely know where the power button is. We have Fault Scripts for people like that to follow. New folks get them too to ease them into the job, but once you know what you're doing, there's no need for them.
Firstly i'd say decide what part of IT you want to get into. If your set on doing a 1st/2nd line role, then you will be answering general calls, going out to users desks and fixing them, printers, hardware, software etc.
The smaller the company, the more involved you can get in other parts of IT. If your going for a bigger company, then u'll be stuck in support until you can train up and apply for another role (in same company or another).
Qualifications wise, well some companys would like an MCSE. But in reality theres better courses out there that can teach you the skills. Its more about some work experience, then your in.
I will say though, i've done/doing support for the last 8 odd years. 1st line jobs, stear clear of :lol: you just have people moaning all day and taking tempers out on you. Im moving more into a techy role, working more on servers, but still support 8 of our sites and all users with general issues.
Decide WHAT exactly you want to get into in IT (theres lots of "support" areas), servers, migration, email specialist, or a programmer (in which case, what languages), or administration etc etc etc..
Luckypants
03-06-08, 05:30 PM
If you want to get into support, then a basic ITIL certification may be handy. All our support staff had to do it last year and all new hires have to take it if they do not have it. Would your work offer that to it's support staff?
fizzwheel
03-06-08, 06:07 PM
Can you get a job somewhere and get your foot in the door on a helpdesk or desktop support role. If so go for that and dont bother with the exams as theres no substitute for on the job experience.
I've lost count of people who have impressive CV's with MCP & MCSE etc etc but you give them a broken PC and they can't fix it.
Get a job on the bottom rung, prove you can do what you say you can do and show an apptitude for it and IMHO it'll get you a damn site further than meaningless bits of paper will.
I've got no qualifications. I started on a helpdesk, went to desktop support, to field engineer, to Senior Engineer, then I ran a workshop where we churned out somewhere in the region of 4 - 5 servers and 150 PC's a week. Then I went back to helpdesk again, then onto desktop support, then onto server support. Now I do server and infrastructure design and I'm also datacentre manager.
If you want to go and learn something, Learn Cisco either switches / routers or VOIP, Extreme networks is another one to look at and also look into getting Vmware Certification.
I've been working in IT for ten years now, but give me a broken PC and I'll probably just look at you funny and ask where the datacentre monkeys have got to.
VMWare is a winner atm and it's dead easy, but you do have to do the VCP course before you can take the exam - if you take the exam and pass but they can't match your name against a course attendance, they revoke the cert.
timwilky
03-06-08, 07:31 PM
I agree with Mike. ITIL is the thing to get your foot in the door.
As for Baph. I am one of those who he cites that would reject you application if you had a mass of MS useless qualifications. Why. well the real world is not one homoegenous solution. We use best of breed technologies and horses for courses. you therefore have to be able to demonstrate an understanding of the core fundamentals rather than world according to Bill Gates.
What do I mean by that. I would rather employ somebody to look after an active directory deployment who was knowledgeable about X500 directory, LDAP, NDS than somebody who only MS. the reason being that the AD needs to be a tool used further than just the MS server/PC environment.
Similarly I would rather have a programmer who was competent in C/C++/Java and cross train to C#. Than try to train a C# programmer in Java
Fizz has advised well in suggesting VMware certification. The real world is using virtualisation to consolidate infrastructure. Instead of huge racks of individual servers. We are seeing very powerful servers supporting ESX solutions providing VMs. But companies are exploiting it poorly. Getting caught out by a lack of application balance. and the use of the internal switch etc. Again many are now taking VM appliances etc very seriously as the way to deploy supportable corporate solutions.
The only real advise I can give. Is don't put all your eggs into one basket. A good employer will build on a well defined toolset, ie you with a broad knowledge base. They can add the specialist knowledge they may deem the job to require where necessary.
YoungMan
03-06-08, 08:03 PM
I'm an old git and have been contracting since I left IBM in 1993. I currently work as a Business Analyst specialising in the Insurance Industry. As a contractor you get to travel from company to company, building your skills and giving them the benefit of an outside view. All training is tax deductible.
We contract scum (outside of London, by preference) charge anything fro 400 to 600 quid per day. Downside - you are the first one out the door. Upside - you get out while the going's good.
Tried a management role with GE in Munich. Drove me mad. After a while you forget how to kow-tow and do that career thing.
Go independent!!! After 15 years experience I can recommend it!!
DanAbnormal
03-06-08, 08:12 PM
Hmm, okay. I like the idea of messing about with servers etc. I Have used remotePC and other software like that (PCAnywhere etc) before and had a job as a business analyst for 2 years in Dublin doing software support specific to a bespoke reservations system for Hertz Rentacar. I also worked on rolling out the creditcard readers that Hertz still use today and also the thermal printers that print off your rental agreement. I supported 100's of users all over the world. After that I was a project analyst for 3 years creating a new fleet system which eventually they canned as the company got bought out. Since then I've been working in Telecomms placing circuit orders (PSTN, DSL, LL, E1, Layer 2 VPN, VSIP, VLAN etc). Kind of a step back but it's a different industry and I wanted to get into it at the time. Not now though, telecomms is a nightmare. I've also tinkered about with PC's since I was a teenager, starting with the BBC Micro and Acorn, can build a PC with my eyes shut, install Windows, build gaming rigs etc. But certain things I don't know such as binary and the complexities of networks. I probably know more than I give myself credit for, including some basic SQL analyser. But I have no formal qualifications which is where I don't get interviews. Saying that I probably should include all of the above on my C.V. Anyway, just trying to give you an idea of what I've done. I want to get into Windows Server stuff, active directory, remote desktop all that kind of stuff.
Learn the basics of TCP/IP - the CCNA covers the real basics (subnetting, addressing, etc) and is a pretty good primer if you're starting from scratch. I probably still have an old CCNA book somewhere that you can have to get started.
Grab a copy of VMWare Server for free and **** about with that for a bit, just to get a feel for how virtualisation works. A hooky copy of W2003 Standard & Enterprise would do you well, and for high-end storage there's a free (restricted access) filer simulator from Netapp.
You'd be amazed what you can learn just tinkering.
fizzwheel
03-06-08, 09:06 PM
I want to get into Windows Server stuff, active directory, remote desktop all that kind of stuff.
It wont be long before theres no reason to run windows on a bare metal install, Consolidation either lots of small blade servers or as Tim has said two or three big boxes running Vmware is the way its going to go.
So along with whatever you do with W2K3 make sure you learn Vmware as well, otherwise nobody is going to look twice at you.
Personally as said I dont hold much weight to formal qualifications, I'd just take a helpdesk job somewhere to get my foot in the door and then do all the tinkering you can do to teach yourself how this stuff works, then back it up with a training course or two and keep pushing yourself forward.
Its probably worth looking at Windows 2008 Server to, because it aint going to be long before W2K and W2K3 start having their support withdrawn knowing what Microsoft are like.
If you are bright, keen and show an apptitude for it and interview well your lack of formal qualifications wont hold you back, like I said I dont have any and its never held me back.
Hi Dan
I know jack about IT. But like much of the rest of the world, I rely on it. I'm self employed, we are w-a-a-y too small to have any employed IT support.
But remember, when it breaks down - well, in the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king. I just want someone who can fix it, the faster the better. I don't give a monkeys about qualifications, I want someone who knows what they are doing who can get the server running again, in the least possible time, cos time really is money. I'm fairly sure that I'm not atypical.
So if I were you I'd be bold. I'm not in the business but what Fizz says rings true with me. Never doubt your own ability and don't let lack of formal qualifications make you feel like you're second best.
duibhceK
03-06-08, 09:38 PM
My university studies consisted of a Master in Germanic Philology and an advanced Master in Artificial Intelligence. Which basically means I have had no relevant formal education in IT.
My first jobs where in 1st and later 2nd line support for the DSL networrk of the countries biggest provider. I then moved to 2nd line support for a software company that makes medical software. I am now doing functional and procedural analysis and product management foor that same company.
Formal training in IT is only a secondary requirement for support jobs. The main asset of a support engineer is to be an IT enthusiast, motivated, calm and focused in all conditions.
It is easy to learn the formal stuff fast, the other things are a lot more difficult. Most companies realise this and are prepared to invest in the necessary technical training if the other boxes are ticked.
On the subject of qualifications, I have some, but usually don't list most of them when applying for a job. Just pick & choose from the most appropriate.
Sadly, for the qualifications I have, there's very little in the way of high paying jobs. So I just able along paying the bills & have little responsibility. :)
I see the love of VMWare but costly to impliment with full DR & HF. Trying to convice the directors that i need a SAN and a pair of servers to start sorting out our systems is hard, they dont want to dish out ?15k for a basic setup. I play with VMWare but not for any major systems apart from devl and some builds of XP for remote users until we migrate to a WS2003 TS.
I deal with loads myself at work, cover 4 sites LON/NY/LA/DE all by myself for a company that never stops working (media agency), supporting 11 RHEL servers and aprox 50 desktops, most programming, user support & B2B setup issues . Its fairly busy and hard work. Company does not realise that they realy need to have another proper support person, instead hire a freind of the director that is such a numpty is untrue. What want to have someone else that has good experiance in nix enviroments.
So, overall, its hard work, people dont ever think you do work when things are working and when they break for unforseen circumstances they all scream at you, oh and plus they expect the world and more.
people dont ever think you do work when things are working and when they break for unforseen circumstances they all scream at you, oh and plus they expect the world and more.
Hey that sounds just like me:smt064
If you want to take a look-see into whats in the mystical journals of the core competancies for the Windows 2000 exams you can borrow my copies of this if you want:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCSA-Self-Paced-Training-Kit-Requirements/dp/0735618089/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1212529458&sr=11-1
Good bedtime reading :)
I bought them when I wasn't sure whether I wanted to stick with the IBM development stuff I was doing 5 years ago, but never got round to finishing the first book. I think that answered my question, don't know about yours - I stuck with what I was doing and its been good to me so far.
I could give you a long story about why I chose not to do it, but its really not that interesting. As above, sell yourself well, and have confidence when you apply for anything.
"shy bairns get nowt" - something the mother-in-law repeatedly says.
An eagerness to learn is more appealing to me in a prospective applicant than an ability to recite textbooks.
Let me know if you want them, they're just gathering dust here.
On the subject of qualifications, I have some, but usually don't list most of them when applying for a job.
The newest member of our bunch ("senior Admin consultant") has a certificate to drive a forklift pinned to his noticeboard next to his monitor.
I darent ask.
I see the love of VMWare but costly to impliment with full DR & HF. Trying to convice the directors that i need a SAN and a pair of servers to start sorting out our systems is hard, they dont want to dish out ?15k for a basic setup.
The thing to remember is that virtualisation isn't appropriate for everything. If the money you save on tin doesn't cover the cost of the storage system, the virtualisation software and the ESX hosts themselves, it's probably not worth doing.
The thing to remember is that virtualisation isn't appropriate for everything. If the money you save on tin doesn't cover the cost of the storage system, the virtualisation software and the ESX hosts themselves, it's probably not worth doing.
Someone else sees sense too!
For infrastrucutre (proxies, smtp hosts, etc, etc) there is a lot to be said for load balancing switches and a bunch of DL140's instead of huge mutli-redundant systems.
*Looks up at monitoring system, ah a proxy servers broken. We should look at that in the next week or so I suppose...
The users don't notice, and nether would we if the monitoring system didn't tell us. Seamless! This is what it should be IMHO.
Working in IT isn't all fun and dumper trucks full of money that people advertise it as.
You can easily find yourself working all day, though lunch and beyond your leave time and even to the point of being around the next morning when people come in *if* it all goes wrong. Your job is to make sure that doesn't happen!
As others have said about qualifications, don't go and study them to get the piece of paper. I've interviewed people with lots of qualifications on paper (one had even done the written part of a Cisco CCIE!), but no practical experience to back them up even when the exam writers say you should have 3+ years experience on the product.
Oh, and look for an area of IT you would enjoy. Its not just using windows for desktop support and windows servers. I enjoy Networking, Unix and security, so thats what I do.
Dan
wyntrblue
04-06-08, 07:46 AM
i have no qualifications at all, and i work in IT support, mainly supporting user hardware (desktops, laptops, blackberrys etc) its a very interesting way to make money and the challenges are allways errr challenging, i would agree that working in IT you will be expected to pull the occasional all nighter or to work at weekends. hell all the really big jobs should happen when the company is asleep (the weekends late nights etc) so you can expect to be working all sorts of strange hours. its also a thankless job. no one ever comes n says "your doing a great job" they only come to shout at you when the email server gos down for 10mins while you fix it lol. so a thick skin is recomended.
all in all i enjoy my work tho
fizzwheel
04-06-08, 07:53 AM
The thing to remember is that virtualisation isn't appropriate for everything. If the money you save on tin doesn't cover the cost of the storage system, the virtualisation software and the ESX hosts themselves, it's probably not worth doing.
Very True.
I've offset the cost of new hardware against taking out a maintenance contract on 90 odd servers that have no HP maintenance cover on them anymore. Also I've offset it again, by the cost saving involved in not upgrading our Air Conditioning unit as its over worked and offset it again in reducing the amount of power we draw from the local substation which again is on capacity and TBH its warm enough to cook an egg on !!
For our company is makes huge sense to consolidate a whole load of 1U servers that are out of date, under powered and have no warranty cover onto a few blade servers attatched to a SAN that already has spare capacity on it. So I guess I was lucky that I had infrastructure not doing anything that I could use.
The thing to remember is that virtualisation isn't appropriate for everything. If the money you save on tin doesn't cover the cost of the storage system, the virtualisation software and the ESX hosts themselves, it's probably not worth doing.
Problem is we have high usage requirements which puts some virtulisation out the window. High DB activity that takes a complete DL380G5 for itself. On the whole, several things run off the 4TB NAS, problem is if that goes down. But all in all, i dont want to virtulise half a rsed. I just use the free CPU cycles of the file servers to run a few non critical things. I like having several servers of the same type so if there is hardware failure then i can just swap things around, plus HP stuff is fairly reliable and good support.
MiniMac
04-06-08, 09:14 AM
Really interesting topic, I'm just making my 1st steps in IT. Supporting desktops / servers for a games company. Just need more stuff to do sometimes :(
TL84 works here too.
Just note that some companies are so tight with money that some IT bods have previously just built servers from cheep desktop peices. Im still migrating, budget does not allow all to be done in one go.
The pics attached are the tat i have to deal with, small scale i know, but slowly its getting better, should have seen what they had here when i started, was two desks, with desktop computers on top and underneath and some even stacked on top of each other. But things have come on a long way since i convinced them that proper HP kit is the way to go, but still having to fit it around what money is available all while keeping a 24x7 operation working at full pelt.
timwilky
04-06-08, 09:23 AM
Firstly think long and hard about the type of company you want to work within. I have worked for small SME's where I was on call 25 hours a day (yes I know 25) 8 days a week. Was responsible for everything and authorised to do nothing.
Great for learning as you get to do everything.
I have worked in a large global organisation for the past 24 years. It has evolved from the employed by the local site responsible for their IT into a large IT provider in its own right. Very structured. Defined roles/responsibilities. However, out of this comes the drive to reduce costs. Some of this is achieved by high cost investment in technologies, consolidation, relocation etc. But a real biggy is in the delivery of support. We now buy this in. A single provider globally, but from a number of locations. (language). In the case of the UK. our 5000 users now get their first line support from Kuala Lumpur.
DanAbnormal
04-06-08, 09:24 AM
Okay thanks for all your responses. Some of you are losing me though. :rolleyes:
Problem is we have high usage requirements which puts some virtulisation out the window. High DB activity that takes a complete DL380G5 for itself.
DBs are a good example of something that really doesn't suit virtualisation particularly well at the moment. As well as being very resource hungry, there are also serious support issues with VMWare (don't support MCS using iSCSI) and Microsoft (don't support cluster nodes with system disk vmdks on external storage).
It's bleedin wonderful for things like collapsing multiple domain controllers onto the same tin though.
fizzwheel
04-06-08, 09:26 AM
Okay thanks for all your responses. Some of you are losing me though. :rolleyes:
Don't worry you'll soon catch up :D
Seriously go onto google an dgoogle what we are talking about and start looking at it and seeing if its something that you'd be interested in. Its the only way you're going to find out if what you want to do is actually what you want to do ( if that makes sense )
DanAbnormal
04-06-08, 09:32 AM
Don't worry you'll soon catch up :D
Seriously go onto google an dgoogle what we are talking about and start looking at it and seeing if its something that you'd be interested in. Its the only way you're going to find out if what you want to do is actually what you want to do ( if that makes sense )
Will do. At the moment I am learning binary mathematics and I want to cry. It's so damn boring. Also doing sone SQL refresher course as well. Once I'm done with that I will refresh my memory of RAID configs. So much to learn!
I'm rubbish at binary maths - it's the one bit of the CCNA that gave me real trouble - but I can do subnet calculations in my head without worrying about binary. It's a doddle, you just need to remember multiples of two.
timwilky
04-06-08, 09:38 AM
DBs are a good example of something that really doesn't suit virtualisation particularly well at the moment. As well as being very resource hungry, there are also serious support issues with VMWare (don't support MCS using iSCSI) and Microsoft (don't support cluster nodes with system disk vmdks on external storage).
It's bleedin wonderful for things like collapsing multiple domain controllers onto the same tin though.
Sorry I don't understand the use of the words DB and Microsoft in the same paragraph
Binary maths. Not really done any of that since I worked on vax systems and used integer flags and had to logically or bits to the flag etc. whoops still do in c network programming
The only thing you ever need binary for these days is to and a subnet mask to an ip address to return the logical network address.
Sorry I don't understand the use of the words DB and Microsoft in the same paragraph
Oh, you're one of those, are you?
Bless.
DanAbnormal
04-06-08, 09:42 AM
Yeah I can work out the subnets in the noggin, you kind of have to in my current job as no-one technical seems to understand what a /30 is!
timwilky
04-06-08, 09:45 AM
Oh, you're one of those, are you?
Bless.
What a qualified Oracle DBA?. Was. I just use databases these days. currently running XE on my laptop for development. 10g on my webserver at home. And about 200 instances from 8i to 11g at work
timwilky
04-06-08, 09:48 AM
Yeah I can work out the subnets in the noggin, you kind of have to in my current job as no-one technical seems to understand what a /30 is!
as in 30 bits to the subnet or 11111111.11111111. 11111111.11111100.
expressed as 255.255.255.252. which means the last 2 bits are for, device addresses, 2 bits with give you 4 addresses, but you need 1 for the network, one for the broadcast address leaving 2 addresses for devices. Ideal for point to point links.
Yeah I can work out the subnets in the noggin, you kind of have to in my current job as no-one technical seems to understand what a /30 is!
A /30
Subnetmask: 255.255.255.252 (11111111.11111111.11111111.111111 00)
Wildcard (revsese mask): 0.0.0.3 (00000000.00000000.00000000.000000 11)
;)
timwilky
04-06-08, 09:51 AM
A /30
Subnetmask: 255.255.255.252 (11111111.11111111.11111111.111111 00)
Wildcard (revsese mask): 0.0.0.3 (00000000.00000000.00000000.000000 11)
;)
You done too much cisco
You done too much cisco
It's my job to know these things. :smt024
Binary maths - aaaarggghhh
Time we all went down the pub:D
timwilky
04-06-08, 10:05 AM
Ed.
As a small business owner. How do you manage your IT support.
I assume you have somebody local you trust. But how did you come by them. word of mouth? go looking in desperation?.
DanAbnormal
04-06-08, 10:10 AM
as in 30 bits to the subnet or 11111111.11111111. 11111111.11111100.
expressed as 255.255.255.252. which means the last 2 bits are for, device addresses, 2 bits with give you 4 addresses, but you need 1 for the network, one for the broadcast address leaving 2 addresses for devices. Ideal for point to point links.
Ed Zacahary.
Firstly think long and hard about the type of company you want to work within. I have worked for small SME's where I was on call 25 hours a day (yes I know 25) 8 days a week. Was responsible for everything and authorised to do nothing.
Great for learning as you get to do everything.
Too true, thats me 24x7 call as there is always one office in the world with people working.
Ed.
As a small business owner. How do you manage your IT support.
I assume you have somebody local you trust. But how did you come by them. word of mouth? go looking in desperation?.
It's a very small and simple set up. 1 server, 6 PCs. We don't even use MS Server, we use bog standard XP Pro and usual Office applications, with Proclaim case management - it's made by Eclipse Legal Software in Bradford. They provide the support for that. Other support is from a bloke in Newtown (Powys) - we needed some help on our home PC some years ago, and a friend recommended him. So when we set up, it was natural to use him.
He has no formal qualifications, I don't even think he has an O level, but he is very good at what he does, cheap, and reliable. And that's what matters to me.
At the moment I am learning binary mathematics and I want to cry. It's so damn boring. Also doing sone SQL refresher course as well.
I'm teaching my eldest how to count in binary, and the relevant ASCII mapping for those binary numbers. So far, he's pretty much got down most of the capital alphabet!!
But then, his interest is kept because we're doing it with lasers we ripped out of an old DVD player. ;)
timwilky
05-06-08, 09:47 AM
confuse the poor sod by teaching him multiplication/division by bit shifting
Support this:
I have to close my eyes when I go in some days. Oh, and the patching was done by a company of innumerate monkeys, so A4C1 probably matches C1A4.
Thankfully its got absolutely nothing to do with me, I keep telling myself. Funnily enough, so does everyone else....hence:
Support this:
I have to close my eyes when I go in some days. Oh, and the patching was done by a company of innumerate monkeys, so A4C1 probably matches C1A4.
Thankfully its got absolutely nothing to do with me, I keep telling myself. Funnily enough, so does everyone else....hence:
Nice attempt, you should see the DC's i use to work in. Your patching is tidy compared to them.
Telehouse is good for looking at how not to run patching over a long period of time. You can spend many, many, many hours tracing cables in there. :smt017
Dan
fizzwheel
05-06-08, 10:35 AM
Support this:
I'll see that and raise you this
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/fizzwheel/Image010.jpg
The cab on the left is a total nightmare, everythings looped and coiled round each other, patch schedule is reasonable though so its not to bad...
SoulKiss
05-06-08, 10:44 AM
Pah thats NOTHING
I cut my cabling teeth on ICS (http://www.techfest.com/networking/cabling/ibmcs.htm)
Willy-waving 19" cabs? Oh dear.
Willy-waving 19" cabs? Oh dear.
Watch it or we'll have to have a cable crimping competition ;)
timwilky
05-06-08, 12:05 PM
Well I got crimp tools and plugs here for RJ11, RJ12, RJ45 and MMJ.
Prize of being the official geek of the day to tell me what MMJ is, what it was used for.
Edit just noticed also got N type crimping tool and tapping tools for the yellow stuff
Prize of being the official geek of the day to tell me what MMJ is, what it was used for.
Oo Ooo me sir me!
MMJ connectors were the facilitator to and ancestor of the square peg/round hole problem of "Yes, is that the helpdesk? I've plugged my network card into my hub using the RJ11 modem cable that it didn't come with but I found anyway, but it doesnt work, why not?"
Prize of being the official geek of the day to tell me what MMJ is, what it was used for.
MMJ == Modified Modular Jack, which is basically just a modified 6P6C. Used for serial connections mainly, and the jacks are designed so that numpties can't plug them in the wrong way around.
Pretty much the only thing I've seen them used on were DEC minicomputers, either for ethernet or telecoms audio.
What do I win? :D
timwilky
05-06-08, 12:23 PM
Oo Ooo me sir me!
MMJ connectors were the facilitator to and ancestor of the square peg/round hole problem of "Yes, is that the helpdesk? I've plugged my network card into my hub using the RJ11 modem cable that it didn't come with but I found anyway, but it doesnt work, why not?"
Yes but doesn't answer the question
<correct answer>
What do I win? :D
You win Jack.
Here he is
http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/1/4/6/iPhoneheadphonehack2.jpg
timwilky
05-06-08, 12:32 PM
MMJ == Modified Modular Jack, which is basically just a modified 6P6C. Used for serial connections mainly, and the jacks are designed so that numpties can't plug them in the wrong way around.
Pretty much the only thing I've seen them used on were DEC minicomputers, either for eithernet or telecoms audio.
What do I win? :D
Modified modular jack is correct. Modified in that the peg is offset rather than central. Marketing rather than any other purpose. Dec serial equipment came with MMJ rather than RJ12 because they were big enough at the time to be able to say use our special plug to ensure you use the correct cable and not one designed for another purpose.
So correct used for DEC equiment. But for serial communication. Definitely not Ethernet. or telecoms audio, even to a modem would be difficult as basicly the 6 cores were t+/t-, r+/r-, Gnd/Gnd
So no overall geek. Baph nearly one, Ooger obviously worked with the numpties who would find the wrong hole with the wrong plug. I don't remeber employing him
even to a modem would be difficult as basicly the 6 cores were t+/t-, r+/r-, Gnd/Gnd
Have to correct you there old chap, DTR, TX+, TX-, RX-, RX+, DSR, and IIRC, in that order too.
Also, wasn't there a BC16 cable you could use to cross the pairs & thereby create a null modem cable?
MMJ were pretty easy to convert to RS232, so not completely out of the ball park with Ethernet or telecoms. :)
SoulKiss
05-06-08, 12:52 PM
Willy-waving 19" cabs? Oh dear.
I have my own BT style 19" cab at home in the garage :)
Filled with AT rackmount cases.
Have a Sun E450 in the front room.
Anyone in the London area that wants them is free to come pick them up - but its a Job lot I am afraid :)
timwilky
05-06-08, 12:58 PM
Nice to know I fail my own geek test
Yes you are right about the 2 control signals. not sure though about the dtr/dsr nomeclature. Might have also been RTS/CTS. I do remember when strapping these accross that we would dummy the ground using the Tx/Rx- singlas. That might have been when the ground came from in my memory, and I think we also link the DTR/CTS on the 25 way to the incoming CTS. But don't quote me it was about 20 year ago
timwilky
05-06-08, 12:59 PM
I will take the E450 off you hands assuming it is of course working. Even drop the 19" rack in a passing skip.
But don't quote me it was about 20 year ago
Ah, when I was 5. :rolleyes: :p
SoulKiss
05-06-08, 01:06 PM
I will take the E450 off you hands assuming it is of course working. Even drop the 19" rack in a passing skip.
It powers up (and dims the lights when it does), dont know about the rest as I dont have a sun monitor and nothing came up on the serial console when I tried - but I was using an proven USB to Serial cable to my laptop so not convinced that the prob was with the Sun.
Has 4 PSUs, 4 CPUs and about 4 scsi drives - think its a loaded with memory as they came.
If you want it, you are welcome to it
I have a monitor attached to my SPARC in the wardrobe if it'll come in handy...
It powers up (and dims the lights when it does), dont know about the rest as I dont have a sun monitor and nothing came up on the serial console when I tried - but I was using an proven USB to Serial cable to my laptop so not convinced that the prob was with the Sun.
Has 4 PSUs, 4 CPUs and about 4 scsi drives - think its a loaded with memory as they came.
If you want it, you are welcome to it
You of course used a null modem DB25 into the A port didn't you...
And congrats Dave! You finally offloaded it to someone other than me.
SoulKiss
05-06-08, 01:22 PM
You of course used a null modem DB25 into the A port didn't you...
And congrats Dave! You finally offloaded it to someone other than me.
Indeed I did.
But if you have a cable thats a known worker we can try that too :)
DanAbnormal
05-06-08, 04:20 PM
Hmm, maybe I'm just not geeky enough for this sort of job! :rolleyes:
Iansv II
05-06-08, 10:00 PM
Just make sure you don't end up in a company where the only people who get shown/trained on anything interesting are the ones who kiss ass with the bosses and everyone else just gets the ****ty 1st/2nd line day to day stuff.
I've fallen so far behind in the last 5 years i've completely lost my enthusiam for what I do now... At least i'll be getting outsourced/made redundant hopefully by year end.
IT is far from the rosy career alot of people would have you believe
Hmm, maybe I'm just not geeky enough for this sort of job! :rolleyes:
Get a job in the industry, and it's only a matter of time. :D
SoulKiss
06-06-08, 08:23 AM
Get a job in the industry, and it's only a matter of time. :D
Not really - have worked with MANY people who outside work were not at all geeky.
They were crap at the job tho
If being a geek is not a tag you want, then dont go into IT, but in many fields its such a big and interesting subject you cant help but spend time learning more about stuff.
Like why getting your solaris skills up to speed would be good, but saying yes please to an E450 without remembering that its a huge lardy piece of kit
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.