View Full Version : Homeopathy
gettin2dizzy
12-06-08, 10:20 AM
Anyone tried it?
Any views?
Warthog
12-06-08, 10:27 AM
From a scientific point of view: almost totally useless. The placebo effect is about the only useful thing.
I have and so has the missus and my sister, mum, aunt........generally most of the family
Depends on the individual I think if it works. Worked on all of us if you follow it to the letter. Remember no coffee or coke though!! :)
If you dont mind me asking what are you gonna be addressing?
the_lone_wolf
12-06-08, 10:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U
oh, and you managed to spell "Skeptic" incorrectly in your sig
unless you meant septic?;)
gettin2dizzy
12-06-08, 10:55 AM
I have and so has the missus and my sister, mum, aunt........generally most of the family
Depends on the individual I think if it works. Worked on all of us if you follow it to the letter. Remember no coffee or coke though!! :)
If you dont mind me asking what are you gonna be addressing?
I'm just intrigued as to who it appeals to.
I've seen signs in windows offering it as an alternative. Now I have no issues with people using it alongside other medication, but to REPLACE it is barmy, and quite possibly dangerous dependant on the condition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U
oh, and you managed to spell "Skeptic" incorrectly in your sig
unless you meant septic?;)
My distaste for americanisms has been noted before, and this is another word they have butchered ;)
the_lone_wolf
12-06-08, 11:01 AM
My distaste for americanisms has been noted before, and this is another word they have butchered ;)
sceptic is a noun meaning someone who is doubtful, a skeptic is someone who follows the process of scientific skepticism, which is something different;)
dissuade
12-06-08, 11:04 AM
unless you meant septic?;)
Haha. In that case I don't think homeopathy is going to help your cause, you might want to seek your GP's opinion...
I think homeopathy is largely a placebo effect, not a panacea. Something for new age hippies and people who have nothing left to lose.
I'm just intrigued as to who it appeals to.
I've seen signs in windows offering it as an alternative. Now I have no issues with people using it alongside other medication, but to REPLACE it is barmy, and quite possibly dangerous dependant on the condition.
unless you are someone with medical knowledge I would refrain from commenting ;)
Zombie Jesus
12-06-08, 11:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U
oh, and you managed to spell "Skeptic" incorrectly in your sig
unless you meant septic?;)
ahh the legend that is james randi
IIRC homeopathy can be provided by the NHS :smt081
the_lone_wolf
12-06-08, 11:11 AM
ahh the legend that is james randi
IIRC homeopathy can be provided by the NHS :smt081
yep, publicly funded fairy tales, still, if the people who use it actually get better due to the placebo effect it's not entirely a waste of taxpayers cash:rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
12-06-08, 11:18 AM
sceptic is a noun meaning someone who is doubtful, a skeptic is someone who follows the process of scientific skepticism, which is something different;)
Utter twaddle! ;) I'm Captain Sceptic! Son of Dr Cynic :thumbsup:
unless you are someone with medical knowledge I would refrain from commenting ;)
Hehe. If it's worked for you; wondeful! It's just....well... impossible! ;)
If these dudettes had discovered water 'memory' or some physical variant that could explain their cause, they'd be honoured with both the Nobel Prizes for Chemistry and Physics!
What conditions does this treatment stretch to?
blue curvy jester
12-06-08, 12:04 PM
unless you are someone with medical knowledge I would refrain from commenting ;)
I am a medical scientist and twaddle is as twaddle does, and homeopathy is right up there with snake oil
i have no problems with using in the same way as all complementary medicine ie along side PROVEN medical treatments and its probably benificial as confidence, positive thought and self belief works well to increase effectiveness.
but on its own it is in the words of a 1998 medical review, "placebo therapy at best and quackery at worst."
Anyone tried it?
Any views?
not me
Alpinestarhero
12-06-08, 12:24 PM
I have and so has the missus and my sister, mum, aunt........generally most of the family
Depends on the individual I think if it works. Worked on all of us if you follow it to the letter. Remember no coffee or coke though!! :)
If you dont mind me asking what are you gonna be addressing?
no coffee or coke...so lack of cafeine and sugar may have something to do with the rememdy...?
Im dead against it. Make up a solution of drug. Dilute it until theres almost nothing left, maybe a few molecules per unit of fluid.
Alegedly, water has memory. Tosh. Complete tosh.
Matt
the_lone_wolf
12-06-08, 12:28 PM
Im dead against it. Make up a solution of drug. Dilute it until theres almost nothing left
there really is nothing in it...
a 30c solution has about a one in a billion chance that there's a single molecule of the active ingredient left in the solution
blue curvy jester
12-06-08, 12:57 PM
Its not a dilution of the drug, the theory of Homeopathy is
taking the caustaive agent of the disease and diluting it out
ie if you have dust mite allegies you take some dust mits grind them up and dilute in 100 mls of solvent ( water/ether/alcohol) them you take 1ml of this into 100mls of solvent and do this 50-100 times( or more)
the theroy is that a little of what ails you makes you better ( ie dilute it out so much that it can't cause a reaction but it can still simulate the bodies 'natural' defences)
the only scientific problem with this is in cases such as a peanut allegy even 1 molecule of the protein coat that causes the reaction is enough to cause anaphalaxis and death or to have thier heart stabbed with adrenaline (nice)
CHARLATANS
never tried it wanted to but thought about it and didn't do it
gettin2dizzy
12-06-08, 02:02 PM
ie if you have dust mite allegies you take some dust mits grind them up and dilute in 100 mls of solvent ( water/ether/alcohol) them you take 1ml of this into 100mls of solvent and do this 50-100 times( or more)
the theroy is that a little of what ails you makes you better ( ie dilute it out so much that it can't cause a reaction but it can still simulate the bodies 'natural' defences)CHARLATANS
See the wolf man below
there really is nothing in it...
a 30c solution has about a one in a billion chance that there's a single molecule of the active ingredient left in the solution
:thumbsup:
There really is nothing left in it. The water supposedly has a memory.
Did you know that you can get a homepathic anti-malaria drug? And it recommends using it as an alternative! :scratch:
blue curvy jester
12-06-08, 03:00 PM
See the wolf man below
:thumbsup:
There really is nothing left in it. The water supposedly has a memory.
Did you know that you can get a homepathic anti-malaria drug? And it recommends using it as an alternative! :scratch:
that'll work though
(if they use gin and tonic as solvent!)
the_lone_wolf
12-06-08, 03:31 PM
the theroy is that a little of what ails you makes you better ( ie dilute it out so much that it can't cause a reaction but it can still simulate the bodies 'natural' defences)
not quite, thats the proven theory behind inoculations, by providing the patient's body with a weakened form of whatever you want to inoculate against, it allows the body to develop the antibodies required to fend off the attack
the concentration of homoeopathic remedies are trillions of trillions of times more dilute than than the jab you get to protect against the flu for example, so dilute it would be like adding a drop of whatever the active ingredient is to all the worlds oceans (it's actually more dilute than that but it serves the purpose).
now imagine you let that one drop of whatever you put in the ocean disperse evenly around the globe, and once it has you take a thimble of water from anywhere on earth. what are the chances that that tiny bit of water in the thimble contains one molecule from the original drop? the answer is effectively zero, and that's how likely the homoeopathic solution is to contain any of the original substance you added before you started diluting it
northwind
12-06-08, 04:11 PM
Thing is, the placebo affect actually can have a beneficial effect in many cases, psychology as medicince can't be discounted.
Pedrosa
12-06-08, 04:18 PM
Homeopathy? Nah,I'm an old fashioned kinda guy that still prefers girls.:p
Alpinestarhero
12-06-08, 04:28 PM
Thing is, the placebo affect actually can have a beneficial effect in many cases, psychology as medicince can't be discounted.
Oh, definatly; a positive frame of mind is bloody helpfull. But peddling ideas like "memory of water" is not helpful. Its just incorrect.
seedy100
12-06-08, 07:58 PM
The tooth fairy told me that Santa said it cured Rudolphs red nose.
However the Wicked Witch of the West said is all bullocks.
Bonkers!
philipMac
12-06-08, 08:10 PM
Its always nice when you can formulate your ideas on a topic succinctly, concisely and in a direct and to the point manner.
Homeopathy = B0LL0CKS.
blue curvy jester
13-06-08, 11:18 AM
not quite, thats the proven theory behind inoculations, by providing the patient's body with a weakened form of whatever you want to inoculate against, it allows the body to develop the antibodies required to fend off the attack
the concentration of homoeopathic remedies are trillions of trillions of times more dilute than than the jab you get to protect against the flu for example, so dilute it would be like adding a drop of whatever the active ingredient is to all the worlds oceans (it's actually more dilute than that but it serves the purpose).
now imagine you let that one drop of whatever you put in the ocean disperse evenly around the globe, and once it has you take a thimble of water from anywhere on earth. what are the chances that that tiny bit of water in the thimble contains one molecule from the original drop? the answer is effectively zero, and that's how likely the homoeopathic solution is to contain any of the original substance you added before you started diluting it
I know thats the theroy of innoculations ( antibody antigen response,mediated cell response and the immunological respose cascade etc)
all i was saying is that is the real science (as in proven) behind the Psydo science
i wasn't sure about the dilution ratios but once you get to the end saturation point there's buggerall there anyway it make little differenece diluting defacto water with water again
what worries me is they are running accredited (HOW???) courses in this with people who may not understand that they have to dilute that much and may leave some active anti-gen in the solution and cause major issues
As a question doesn't the mantra say the more you dilute the more effective the homopathetic response?
and my considered response in regards to all the evidence presented to date (in peer reviewed medical journals as opposed to hear say review) its all B*ll*cks
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