Equality and Diversity

[DanDare]

I have just rang Gloucestershire County council to request an application pack for a job.

The girl very politely took my details and said a pack would be with me soon.

Then she said she had to ask me some questions with regard to Equality and Diversity but I didn't have to answer. I said Ok anyway.

I was asked my Age, Gender, Religious Beliefs and Sexual Orientation and Disabilities.

Now this got me thinking about why they feel the need to ask these questions. Its obviously to me about filling quotas for certain groups to be employed with them.

If they are trying to prove everyone as equal, why do they need to ask these questions in the first place.

It also got me thinking should I of answered Female, Lesbian of Asian origin and Muslim with one leg? Then when they queried it, say to them why would it matter and more importantly they cannot test you on your answers can they.

Anyone had any similar experience????

[Jayneflakes]

I was asked my Age, Gender, Religious Beliefs and Sexual Orientation and Disabilities.
Anyone had any similar experience????

I have been quizzed like this by Soulkiss, but I think he may just be doing it for Kicks!

Mind You I am a slightly disabled Lesbian Pagan with anarchist tendancies and I still can't find a job, where did you say these jobs are that require such folk to get their numbers up? :smt102

[SoulKiss]

I have been quizzed like this by Soulkiss, but I think he may just be doing it for Kicks!

Mind You I am a slightly disabled Lesbian Pagan with anarchist tendancies and I still can't find a job, where did you say these jobs are that require such folk to get their numbers up? :smt102

Doing it for Kicks? I'm just hoping to avoid the slaps :P

Dont forget your subscription to the Honour Catalogue :)

[Jayneflakes]

Dont forget your subscription to the Honour Catalogue :)

Hey, I don't bother with that, I make my own PVC clothing, that way you can make it really tight!

Really really tight...:smt016

[Shellywoozle]

It seems common practice nowadays.

I know that, specially with my profession, these figures are collate for government statistics and god know what they do with the data. So maybe with it being Council they follow the same silly guidelines.

I wouldn't worry too much, the way the world is going they have to ensure no discrimation is going on, dunno if this is a way of controlling.

Wonder what reaction you would have got over the phone if you answered like you said tho, be funny!

[SoulKiss]

Hey, I don't bother with that, I make my own PVC clothing, that way you can make it really tight!

Really really tight...:smt016

THIS COMMENT USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES !!!!

[Iansv II]

As per usual... If your a single white male with no kids your at the bottom of the list for everything........

[dizzyblonde]

Hey, I don't bother with that, I make my own PVC clothing, that way you can make it really tight!

Really really tight...:smt016


rubbers better;):cool:

[Shellywoozle]

rubbers better;):cool:

Hey we even turning a diversity thread into smut ..... OMG think we need to have a private section for adult only on this forum LOL

[Biker Biggles]

They have to compile data on these things for the government.Every public service is supposed to do it.Most peeps at my place just make them up,and Im sure thats pretty common.Totally daft and gets a bit sinister when the target obsessed t&ssers get going on it.

[SoulKiss]

They have to compile data on these things for the government.Every public service is supposed to do it.Most peeps at my place just make them up,and Im sure thats pretty common.Totally daft and gets a bit sinister when the target obsessed t&ssers get going on it.

Why this???

What's it got to do with Kinky Clobber? (or even Kinky Copper Clobber)

[Biker Biggles]

Dont think the government specify exactly which kinky clobber questions need to be asked,but thats where the target obsessed t&ssers get going.Some manager in a made up job will justify his (totally surplus) existance by inventing these questions and creating a database for the meaningless answers.
Call me cynical but---------

[grh1904]

It happens everywhere, but more so in the public sector. We've just had one where I work - :plod:

Last year (June 2007) I went onto insulin to control my diabetes and later on in the year I applied to the motorcycle section (means becoming adavnced Police driver and motorcyclist), but because of my diabetes I was automatically refer to the Occupational Health dept. The doc there said I was fit to undergo the training, and that the Disability discrimination Act did apply - in that my employer had to make reasonable adjustments to allow me to apply etc etc.

So, when the latest employment at work survey/questionaire came around - (you know where you are asked questions about how well senior managers communicate to you about change, how good is morale, are you motivated, are you respected by senior managers etc etc) - when it came to the question DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF TO HAVE A DISABILITY - I TICKED yes.

Wished I bloody hadn't now - the latest "personally" addressed envelope states "As a disabled member of the work force, we value your input on how well the organisation is meeting your needs..............blah blah blah........"

As previously stated it's all to do with targets, and so that those who are in senior positions (or justifying their own existance/salary twice that of us plebs) can say "look how well we look after the gimps.............."


Disclaimer - gimps in no way implies that those who are/maybe gimps are in any way less thought of as sv650.org members, just that as a gimp member of the .org we value your input as to how well the .org best meets your needs a gimp.........................blah blah blah

[timwilky]

I simply state that none of their categories apply. I am Lancastrian and can never find it on the list.

I find it condescending when they use the term British. The Britains have been *******ised out of existence by every invader/settler to these lands. I don't see Celt on their lists etc.

[MiniMatt]

While I'm all for a bit of tinfoil hattery every now and again, consider that the equal opps info and your application should never be at any stage tied together, in fact I'm reasonably certain that the law requires that such data can't be placed alongside an application and I'd be willing to bet that your name isn't even on the equal opps form, it just gets thrown in a seperate tray.

[muffles]

It's funny how jobs that try to increase "quotas" in the name of no discrimination are actually discriminating by doing just that.

Remember folks, there is no such thing as positive discrimination.

[timwilky]

I seem to recall a US medical school getting into trouble as they had two entry grades depending if the applicant was white or African American (Is that still the correct term?).

A white applicant was rejected because of his inadequate grade and filed a lawsuit on the basic of discrimination as the grade would have been acceptable if he was black.

He won his case and the medical school was forced to admit him. A second lawsuit was then filed as the school was blatantly discriminating in favour of white students as the racial mix was now out of agreed proportion.


This is the stupid situation you can get in when people start trying to find evidence of discrimination etc. Most people I know, would rather get a job, etc on merit. Not the colour of their skin or racial grouping etc.

I do know of one company where most of the directors are Iranian. It has been accepted that the senior managers learn Farsi. I see no difference with this as my own company giving French lessons to the English/German employees and them learning English etc,

[Blue_SV650S]

Anyone had any similar experience????

Yes, when I applied for the :pig:'s ... and I thought exactly the same as you when filling in the EO forms! ;)

[Shellywoozle]

Yes, when I applied for the :pig:'s ... and I thought exactly the same as you when filling in the EO forms! ;)

It becomes your life when you are a :pig:, the whole entry process is based on this. When your in the job you have to be PC in more ways than one LOL.

Quiet rightly too tho ! It's the future !! Be told :-dd

[dissuade]

I have recently had to ask my patients the same questions for some reason. Nobody in the Dental Hospital seems to be able to give me a straight answer as to why I am committing this pointless waste of time, so I just tell my patients it's for ethnic cleansing. Thankfully so far, they have all been in possession of a sense of humour.

[Biker Biggles]

Nice one dissuade.I might just do that too.
Trouble is theres a distinct lack of a sense of humour round my job these days as we have been "modernised" and "improved".

[CoolGirl]

Ah, just picked myself up from laughing at all the 'quotas' and 'I don't know why I'm being asked to do this' -ness in this thread.

did anyone actully stop and think to find out what it's really all about?....

[Biker Biggles]

Its all about jobs for the boys and girls.
How else would incompetant managers be kept in post?

[Blue_SV650S]

Ah, just picked myself up from laughing at all the 'quotas' and 'I don't know why I'm being asked to do this' -ness in this thread.

did anyone actully stop and think to find out what it's really all about?....

Yes, its about reducing the chances of getting offered an interview (let alone a job) if you are a straight, single, able bodied, white male!!! :smt011

By trying to reduce prejudice/track it, you are actually potentially inflicting it, just on another 'set'!! :( The whole thing is just plain wrong! Jobs/interviews should be offered as you are the best candidate - fullstop!! :rant:

It becomes your life when you are a :pig:

Yeah, and look what it has done to your mental state!! :shock: :lol:

[muffles]

Yes, its about reducing the chances of getting offered an interview (let alone a job) if you are a straight, single, able bodied, white male!!! :smt011

By trying to reduce prejudice/track it, you are actually potentially inflicting it, just on another 'set'!! :( The whole thing is just plain wrong! Jobs/interviews should be offered as you are the best candidate - fullstop!! :rant:

So right IMO. Best to get something straight - being 'anti-discrimination' is NOT about making sure there are equal/some other proportion of each "group". Being "anti-discrimination" is about not discriminating AT ALL - i.e. your/the choices are NOT influenced by whatever it is you are "not discriminating" against.

Thus, asking these questions, as Blue points out and as I tried to say earlier, is actually discriminating.

...there is no such thing as positive discrimination.

[CoolGirl]

...there is no such thing as positive discrimination.

Quite right - it's actually illegal in this country.

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S http://forums.sv650.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=1547544#post1547544)
its about reducing the chances of getting offered an interview (let alone a job) if you are a straight, single, able bodied, white male!!! :smt011


Is it? how did you work that out? If your monitoring form is separated, as it should be, from the application, then you've got nothing to worry about if you're up to the job. The monitoring is only used in aggregate to look at the proportion of people applying, being interviewed and being appointed. Why does this happen? To make sure the process doesn't disadvantage anyone.

So, please, stop whining about your demographic status until you've really been discriminated against and have evidence of such.
(sorry if there's too many long words in this for you)

[Woz]

Is it? how did you work that out? If your monitoring form is separated, as it should be, from the application, then you've got nothing to worry about if you're up to the job. The monitoring is only used in aggregate to look at the proportion of people applying, being interviewed and being appointed. Why does this happen? To make sure the process doesn't disadvantage anyone.


So if the forms are separated, how can any statistics about interviews, appointments etc be collated?

[CoolGirl]

So if the forms are separated, how can any statistics about interviews, appointments etc be collated?

easy - you have a ref number which the admin person then matches up with them afterwards (Mine have an 'office use only' box at the bottom and my PA puts an identifier in. I never see the forms, she does the adding up and tells me)

[Woz]

easy - you have a ref number which the admin person then matches up with them afterwards (Mine have an 'office use only' box at the bottom and my PA puts an identifier in. I never see the forms, she does the adding up and tells me)

Seems completely unnecessary then. Accomplishes nothing whatsoever.

As an example of so-called positive discrimination however, the current Mrs Woz used to work in management at the Probation Service. When recruiting for one position, there was nothing to separate two candidates and she was directed by senior management to appoint the candidate from the 'minority' background.

Personally I found that disgusting.

[CoolGirl]

Seems completely unnecessary then. Accomplishes nothing whatsoever..

Beg to differ. If I know that none of the disabled people that applied got through, I'd think I might have a problem with my process. If none applied in the first place, I'd wonder what was putting them off.

As an example of so-called positive discrimination however, the current Mrs Woz used to work in management at the Probation Service. When recruiting for one position, there was nothing to separate two candidates and she was directed by senior management to appoint the candidate from the 'minority' background.

Personally I found that disgusting.

Agree. I'd have refused to do it. They should have applied further competence-related criteria.

[Ed]

Oh Debs you beat me to it. The purpose is simple. It's plainly important that for ANY job nobody is disadvantaged in the application process. Some recruitment processes will, intentionally or not, favour people of the same overall likeness as those doing the recruiting - most common example, and I make no apology for this, is able-bodied white men. That is indirect discrimination and it's illegal.

Not only is it illegal, it's completely pointless and self-defeating in effectively closing your recruitment process to an enormous number of potential applicants who might be very well skilled and suited for the role.

So if the recruitment data is that only a certain type of people are enquiring, then there is something wrong with the recruitment process, and this information can be used to broaden the appeal of future campaigns. For example, are they advertising in the right place.

Discrimination is really nasty. I don't understand why people feel so threatened:confused:

[Woz]

Agree. I'd have refused to do it.

Hence the term "used to work" there.

[Blue_SV650S]

Even if forms are segregated, it has to have an impact else what is the point? ...

Ok, so lets assume for arguments sake that at no point is feedback between the two actually given ... but if people know things are being counted behind the scenes, the impact if not direct, is undoubtedly indirect ... regardless of how you disguise it, it HAS to have an impact ;)

For example, as an employer knows that a workforce should consist of a mix of people with pony tails and those without, if the workforce as it is, is predominately people without pony tails, you can rest assured anyone with a ponytail will have preference come interview time ... you don't need someone counting behind your back to know you don't have many pony tails in your company and you also know that as things are being counted, you might end in a court if you were not seen to be hiring more pony tails ...

And we all know that if they interview 10 pony tails and only 1 non pony tail and the non-pony tail was hired (as they were the better applicant), people would be asking questions!!! ...

I am sorry, but the only way it can work truly fairly, is if it is NOT monitored in any way!

p.s. Before you go dissing this premise (you might want to look that word up coolgirl ;)) ... you prove to me it isn't the case!! :p

[Rog]

Quite right - it's actually illegal in this country.




Is it? how did you work that out? If your monitoring form is separated, as it should be, from the application, then you've got nothing to worry about if you're up to the job. The monitoring is only used in aggregate to look at the proportion of people applying, being interviewed and being appointed. Why does this happen? To make sure the process doesn't disadvantage anyone.

So, please, stop whining about your demographic status until you've really been discriminated against and have evidence of such.
(sorry if there's too many long words in this for you)


Couldnt agree with CG more. If some k**b at "The Sun" decides that its time to bash a certain public sector by simply stating that they are racist and discrimintary against a certain sector of the populus and this is made up bullsh*t. How does that sector defend itself. Its only by collecting these statistics that anybody can show that they give everyone a fair crack of the whip.

My industry is a classic example. As civil engineers we are male dominated. by collating this we can not only tell how many women we employ as a percentage but how many applied for jobs in the first instance. This way we can monitor if it is a matter of women not being employed although interviewed, or they are not applying in the first instance. Both problems would need addressing in totally different ways.

[timwilky]

I am a firm believer in appointment/selection by ability not for any other reason. I have recruited Indian/Pakistani/female/gay engineers. I have promoted those who deserve it etc. Never has race, religion, sex mattered.

There is too much mischief making out of trying to identifiy discimination where it doesn't exist. and very easy to use it as a weapon/lever when things don't go their way for some.

[G]

I know someone who works within nottinghamshire police.

At the moment.....and for the last year, if your not ethnic you application get 'logged' (scrapped)

Apparently positive discrimination is OK though.

[MiniMatt]

We've already had the nottingham police discussion :D I vaguely remember that an accusation was made of the Notts force operating blatantly illegally but that the alleged witness to this illegality was not prepared to report the fact.

What baffles me is that Deb & Ed have both pointed out far more eloquently than I that the monitoring forms are completely seperate from the application form, yet somehow the tinfoil hattery has continued.

Ok, lets think, why were these brought in in the first place? I think we can all agree that in the past employment practices used to be pretty dreadfully racist & sexist; if you were anything other than a white guy your job chances and career ceiling were restriced. So, after laws being passed, equal ops monitoring forms appeared to give HR departments an idea of if the law was being followed - not to drive recruitment but to give an idea of whether the law is being adhered to.

"But it's gone too far!" the tinfoil hatters cry. So how do you suggest we change that? I reckon if we get applicants to fill in a monitoring form that'd be a good place to start eh? That way we get an idea of how many black/white/yellow/green/pink applicants we get, and perhaps then get an idea of how many black/white/yellow/green/pink employees we have? Then any statistically significant gross discrepancy might suggest that white heterosexual men are being discriminated against and as such be worthy of further investigation. Except that's what we already do.

So you can keep banging on about how positive discrimination is preventing straight white guys from getting jobs but it simply isn't true. No matter how many times you say it.

[timwilky]

But it is not just in employment these damm forms get.

Book in at the local A&E and they want your ethic origin, gender, religion etc. Why. A black/white, male/female (surely medical staff could easily tell that one) broken leg warrants the same treatment. Or do they have wards for different nationality/race (I know they don't for the different sexes).

TBH. After my last stay in Hospital. I came out thinking next time I will tell them I am muslim as the halal food is cooked off the premises and brought in. Smelled/looked a damm sight more appertising than the slop they dished out to the rest.

One poor sod got the meal ordered by the previous occument of his bed. Steamed cod with gravy. The guy who left must have had a right nasty sense of humour

[MiniMatt]

I suspect it's asked seperately but knowing religion at A&E is kinda important if you're likely to need a blood transfusion and the like. As for off site food, hmm, maybe. Though I'd like to think by now that a "culture of hygeine" has spread to hospital kitchens and whilst your slop might not be particularly palatable it's probably/hopefully safe. Restaurants continue to get shut down for hygeine violations with alarming regularity however. Safest choice if you're at all concerned about food is just to take the vegetarian option :D Unidentified veg is far less unsettling to the stomach than indetermine meat :D

[Sudoxe]

Timwilky has it exactly right. My team/department consists of people from anywhere and everywhere (Italy, Brazil, Japan, England, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Poland even one guy from Ethiopia and that’s not listing them all). It’s a bit like a UN convention at lunchtimes, but all good fun.

The official company language is English, however you hear people speaking in any number of different languages for different purposes. On the group of 5 desks I sit on, 4 languages are spoken natively (Italian, Brazilian Portuguese, Japanese, English), however everyone converses in fluent English for work purposes.

Do they have disabilities, Maybe, maybe not. Were they the best candidate for the job at the time? In my team at least, yes.

I couldn't care less if you were a one armed Chinese lesbian with bowed legs and kept cats in your spare time. If you’re the best person for the job, you will get it.

:winner:


I am a firm believer in appointment/selection by ability not for any other reason. I have recruited Indian/Pakistani/female/gay engineers. I have promoted those who deserve it etc. Never has race, religion, sex mattered.

There is too much mischief making out of trying to identifiy discimination where it doesn't exist. and very easy to use it as a weapon/lever when things don't go their way for some.

[SoulKiss]

I couldn't care less if you were a one armed Chinese lesbian with bowed legs and kept cats in your spare time. If you’re the best person for the job, you will get it.

Ah but what if they were a one armed Chinese lesbian with bowed legs and kept cats AND browsed for badger-porn at work?

[Sudoxe]

Well that would depend entirely on the internet usage policy the company had adopted.

Ah but what if they were a one armed Chinese lesbian with bowed legs and kept cats AND browsed for badger-porn at work?

[Woz]

TBH. After my last stay in Hospital. I came out thinking next time I will tell them I am muslim as the halal food is cooked off the premises and brought in. Smelled/looked a damm sight more appertising than the slop they dished out to the rest.


No need to declare that you are anything. My dad (white hetrosexual atheist) had a heart attack a couple of years ago and while he was in hospital he noticed the same thing. So he ordered it only to be told that he couldn't have it. He politely asked the nurse if the gentleman opposite (an asian man) could order from the whole menu to which the answer was yes. So if he can order from the whole menu, I can order from the whole menu. He had a nice curry every other day for the next two weeks.

That, to me, was attempted discrimination. That it was challenged and overturned is beside the point, the fact it was even attempted is wrong.

[MiniMatt]

That, to me, was attempted discrimination. That it was challenged and overturned is beside the point, the fact it was even attempted is wrong.

Meh, maybe, but my first guess would be attempted cost saving rather than attempted discrimination. And to be fair, I think most people would prefer hospitals at least attempt to prioritise spending toward nurses & medical bits and bobs rather than takeaway food; sure cater in a pragmaticac way to individual needs for halal/kosher etc food but realise that's going to cost money and so attempt to restrict halal/kosher food to folks who have genuine belief systems rather than give to all because it tastes better :D

[muffles]

Meh, maybe, but my first guess would be attempted cost saving rather than attempted discrimination. And to be fair, I think most people would prefer hospitals at least attempt to prioritise spending toward nurses & medical bits and bobs rather than takeaway food; sure cater in a pragmaticac way to individual needs for halal/kosher etc food but realise that's going to cost money and so attempt to restrict halal/kosher food to folks who have genuine belief systems rather than give to all because it tastes better :D

So, what you're saying is they should discriminate based on religious beliefs ;) iiiiinteresting....

[MiniMatt]

So, what you're saying is they should discriminate based on religious beliefs ;) iiiiinteresting....

That's not what I said and you know it you naughty naughty man :D

[SoulKiss]

That's not what I said and you know it you naughty naughty man :D

Its exactly what you said ;)

Only give the expensive food to those who can claim a religious based need.

Its what you said :)

[Biker Biggles]

Gosh what a can of worms.
Whats happened here is that laws have been passed to address a real problem that needed sorting,but human nature being what it is,the zealots have latched on,created whole new fiefdoms for themselves,and totally overdone it,resulting in the backlash we see here.Yes things have gone too far.We risk getting to a position where the cure for the old problem becomes as insidious as the old problem was.
I wonder if we should move away from legislation outlawing discrimination specifically concerning areas like race sex age religeon and replace it with a requirement to act without discrimination against anyone.Discrimination is essentially bullying,and outlawing that at a general level would perhaps cause less offense to the wider population.
Just a thought.:confused:

[muffles]

Whats happened here is that laws have been passed to address a real problem that needed sorting,but human nature being what it is,the zealots have latched on,created whole new fiefdoms for themselves,and totally overdone it,resulting in the backlash we see here.

Bang on BB. End of thread! :D

[MiniMatt]

Its exactly what you said ;)

Only give the expensive food to those who can claim a religious based need.

Its what you said :)

So just because the docs don't offer you a cervical smear test is that witholding medical treatment based purely on the fact that you're a bloke and don't have a cervix? Hell blokes can get breast cancer too but I bet you won't be offered screening in the years to come but your missus may, is that sex discrimination too? I suspect your chances of being screened for sickle-cell aren't too hot either given you're a white bloke and not black - is that racial discrimination?

It's not a case of "only give the good food to the religious", it's a case of "only offer" the halal food to the muslims and the kosher food to the jews because it costs money that'd be better spent fixing the broken legs of speeding bikers :D Whether it's the "good" food or not is subjective and beside the point, it's halal or kosher or whatever, that's the only purchasing criteria that's different to the norm, but it sure as hell will be more expensive than the norm. Hell, if they kick up a stink then they can have the kosher food too, but no point in offering kosher food to gentiles as a matter of course because hell, it takes money away from the wounded bikers!

If you're seriously suggesting that as a matter of routine hospitals only offering kosher food to jews is discrimination to the detriment of white christians then what the hell point do you suspect this discrimination is supposed to serve? Do you think that hospital managers are thinking "jews deserve better treatment than christians?". Do you think that hospital managers are predominantly jewish and just think jewish patients are simply better than their christian counterparts? Discrimination serves a perceived (deeply flawed, but perceived) purpose - in the olden days (hopefully) it used to be "I don't want any black guys working for us because they can't do (a), (b) or (c) as well as white guys" - what purpose do you possibly think is being served by offering jews kosher food and, as a matter of routine if not procedure, gentiles non-kosher food?

If I go to a restaurant I expect the same treatment as any other person, I expect the same menu to be offered regardless of sex, religion or hair colour. If I go to a hospital I expect medical treatment appropriate to my needs and perceived risks regardless of race, religion or hair colour and I expect tertiary care to be similarly appropriate to my needs - if I'm veggie I won't appreciate being offered cow, hell, if I'm Hindu I'm not too keen on cow either, if I'm jewish then I'd rather not have a bacon sarnie thanks very much.

[muffles]

So just because the docs don't offer you a cervical smear test is that witholding medical treatment based purely on the fact that you're a bloke and don't have a cervix? Hell blokes can get breast cancer too but I bet you won't be offered screening in the years to come but your missus may, is that sex discrimination too? I suspect your chances of being screened for sickle-cell aren't too hot either given you're a white bloke and not black - is that racial discrimination?

It's not a case of "only give the good food to the religious", it's a case of "only offer" the halal food to the muslims and the kosher food to the jews because it costs money that'd be better spent fixing the broken legs of speeding bikers :D Whether it's the "good" food or not is subjective and beside the point, it's halal or kosher or whatever, that's the only purchasing criteria that's different to the norm, but it sure as hell will be more expensive than the norm. Hell, if they kick up a stink then they can have the kosher food too, but no point in offering kosher food to gentiles as a matter of course because hell, it takes money away from the wounded bikers!

If you're seriously suggesting that as a matter of routine hospitals only offering kosher food to jews is discrimination to the detriment of white christians then what the hell point do you suspect this discrimination is supposed to serve? Do you think that hospital managers are thinking "jews deserve better treatment than christians?". Do you think that hospital managers are predominantly jewish and just think jewish patients are simply better than their christian counterparts? Discrimination serves a perceived (deeply flawed, but perceived) purpose - in the olden days (hopefully) it used to be "I don't want any black guys working for us because they can't do (a), (b) or (c) as well as white guys" - what purpose do you possibly think is being served by offering jews kosher food and, as a matter of routine if not procedure, gentiles non-kosher food?

If I go to a restaurant I expect the same treatment as any other person, I expect the same menu to be offered regardless of sex, religion or hair colour. If I go to a hospital I expect medical treatment appropriate to my needs and perceived risks regardless of race, religion or hair colour and I expect tertiary care to be similarly appropriate to my needs - if I'm veggie I won't appreciate being offered cow, hell, if I'm Hindu I'm not too keen on cow either, if I'm jewish then I'd rather not have a bacon sarnie thanks very much.

I think perhaps you got sidetracked by my/SK's use of the word discrimination :)

Everyone discriminates. Any time you make a decision, about anything, you are discriminating - I go into the canteen at work, I see fish & chips, and pizza are available. I discriminate on the taste of the food and choose fish & chips (actually, that is tomorrow not today :smt088).

In this case, the discrimination is justified - what else should I choose my food on other than taste? Well there are other things but anyway you get my point :D

It's unjustified discrimination that is the problem, such as if I always chose fish & chips cos "pizza is made by dirty stinkin' Italians" or something... lol.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

At this rate it'll only be a few years before someone launches a discrimination case against a modeling agency for not getting a job because they're ugly.

[gettin2dizzy]

I don't want halal meat thankyou. The method of slaughter is both primitive and brutal.

If you've got bizarre religious beliefs bring your own sandwiches thankyou. My belief is in the eternal honey monster, which allows me only to eat fillet steak and washed down with 12 cans of lager. If that can't be accounted for, why should yours.

[muffles]

I don't want halal meat thankyou. The method of slaughter is both primitive and brutal.

If you've got bizarre religious beliefs bring your own sandwiches thankyou. My belief is in the eternal honey monster, which allows me only to eat fillet steak and washed down with 12 cans of lager. If that can't be accounted for, why should yours.

Where do I sign up?! :D

[gettin2dizzy]

Oh, and I'm not racist or intolerant. I just think our energies should be spent elsewhere, with people stopping to worry on behalf of others.

[yorkie_chris]

I don't want halal meat thankyou. The method of slaughter is both primitive and brutal.

If you've got bizarre religious beliefs bring your own sandwiches thankyou. My belief is in the eternal honey monster, which allows me only to eat fillet steak and washed down with 12 cans of lager. If that can't be accounted for, why should yours.

Lol sign me up!

Seriously if I end up in hospital PLEASE will the org bring me food! I will pay for the food, petrol, time etc etc just don't make me eat that $hite!!

[21QUEST]

At this rate it'll only be a few years before someone launches a discrimination case against a modeling agency for not getting a job because they're ugly.

A 'stroke of Genius' that :smt045 ;)


Ben

[SoulKiss]

Positive Discrimination is on its way under law.

And according to the article, some employers are already saying they do it. (highlighted in red)



Eradicating discrimination - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7473568.stm

Under plans to make workplaces more diverse, Ms Harman wants to allow employers to appoint people specifically because of their race or gender.
The proposals would only apply when choosing between candidates equally qualified for the job.
But it means, for example, women or people from minorities could be hired ahead of others in order to create a more balanced workforce.
Some employers argue they already do this, while others may say these policies will need careful handling to reduce the risk of causing resentment amongst existing staff.
The government has faced criticism from some quarters for presiding over a society which has arguably become more unequal.
The Equalities Bill will be presented as a sign that Labour is seizing the initiative in the crafting of a fairer society, where no-one is held back by prejudice.
But new laws and regulations often meet resistance from employers, organisations and individuals, who resent what they see as the state meddling in their business.
The moral case for eradicating discrimination in all its forms is easy. The new Equalities Bill will have to do something much harder.
To be successful, the bill must not just promote policies based on knowing what is right, but policies which will inspire action that works as well.

[yorkie_chris]

Eradicating discrimination? How f###ing ironic is that!!

I can't really think of a better way to cause racial tension!


(also reminds me of a certain song by the clash)

[21QUEST]

What I find most amusing is how all apparent discrimination seem/tend to steer towards 'race' .......funny eh haha :D


Ben

[gettin2dizzy]

What I find most amusing is how all apparent discrimination seem/tend to steer towards 'race' .......funny eh haha :D


Ben
Because that's the one people get most twitchy about, and the easiest card to play. Look at the copper who's currently slating Blair as an example; his point has been completely lost in a pathetic rant about how being Asian has held him back. If he'd stuck to his guns over the 42 days issue without a juvenile strop, he'd have far more impact on a point that should have been raised.

[21QUEST]

Because that's the one people get most twitchy about, and the easiest card to play. Look at the copper who's currently slating Blair as an example; his point has been completely lost in a pathetic rant about how being Asian has held him back. If he'd stuck to his guns over the 42 days issue without a juvenile strop, he'd have far more impact on a point that should have been raised.
You got a point fella. Agree about the 'most twitchy' bit and I ask why :) but on the 'easiest' bit, well, that's a bit more argueable or perhaps it is ;)

I can comment on the stroppy copper until I've had a good look.

My dislike for people playing 'cards' of any sort is right up there with the best, but you know, those cards can be played by 'all'. That is my main point.

Personally, I discriminate equally....guess that means, I'm fair to everybody ;)



Ben