need a bulletproof 4x4

[ocr_sv]

Right plannin on doin some heavy travelling now that i've finished uni and been workin a bit, and the plan was to buy a solid 4x4 thats cheap and easy to repair, and go for a drive, for well quite a few months, probably next summer with this one (and my funds) dwindling.

So i was thinking about an old land rover, mainly because spares are easily avaliable, long wheel base, so that i can rip the back out and fit a matress, so that those nites we cant camp we have some where to sleep, the price of them seems to have gone up quite a bit, probably coz there half decent,

so what about the Land rover Discovery, something like a 93-95 model? i've seen a few of them being used for off roading, but are they reliable?

It preferably needs to be a good solid reliable car, half decent at handling 'some' offroading, the more the better, coz that just means we can go futher, and all that for around, (preferable less) that ?3k, te lower the price the more i can spend on fuel/expenses etc

so any ideas, are there any decent jap motors i'm over looking?

[svrich]

As a Landrover owner of many years I can say that they are great fun. Give the lro.com forums a shout. They are very helpful and there may well be some members close to you. A 110" Defender will set you back quite a bit as they hold their value, a Discovery could be had for less but you will need to be carefull and spend some time looking for a good solid one. The Discovery wouldn't lend itself to being converted to a camper but you can get roof tents which are a very handy addition for overlanding.
Good luck in your search :D

[Jayneflakes]

so any ideas, are there any decent jap motors i'm over looking?


Have you considered the old faithful Toyota Hilux? One of those will go on for ever.

Or have a look at this guy.

http://www.101fc.net/index.htm

Four wheel drive off road camper van.:smt038

[Stig]

ANY 4x4 is expensive. END OF....


Why does it need to do off road:?: There are plenty of vehicles out there will handle 'difficult' situations without 4 wheel drive or off road capabilities. There are 4 wheel drive vehicles that are not marketed as being off road vehicles that you could choose.

[SoulKiss]

Have you considered the old faithful Toyota Hilux? One of those will go on for ever.

Or have a look at this guy.

http://www.101fc.net/index.htm

Four wheel drive off road camper van.:smt038

Well having seen the purple one you posted I had a look

Seems that they dont really take to conversion to camper van that well.

And if you are using a VAMPIRE as a base, you WILL knock £6k off the value.....

[gettin2dizzy]

I'd avoid LR if I were you. They're unreliable and spares are only easy to get in this country. Buy the old Land Cruiser; the square one. They still make that ancient design new for farmers in outback Australia because of their reliability. If you're wanting accomodation google for roof tents. Living in the back fo a 4x4 is tough (I did for months and months...in a '76 Range Rover Petrol V8 :thumbsup:). Also have a look at the old Nissan Patrols.

[Baph]

What about this (http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=1301&Overide=1)? (Have a browse around the site, you'll probably find something more appropriate - like Landrover 90/110's that are ex-forces).

[PeterM]

Series 2A or 3 109 GS - Ex - military version. Get a hard-top if you can and the 'van' type body (not wagon with rear seats).

Easy to repair and with a little maintenance will serve you well. With a bit of ply or chip board you can put a matress on top and sleep in the back without an issue with storage underneath, between the wheel 'arches'.

If you can get one, a 110 or Defender would be better due to better suspension and drivetrain.

Discoveries are not a bad thing, I have a '94 model, and they are pretty good. A 94 model and later is preferable as they have a revised drivetrain and interior.

[gettin2dizzy]

What about this (http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=1301&Overide=1)? (Have a browse around the site, you'll probably find something more appropriate - like Landrover 90/110's that are ex-forces).
I make the ammunition for these http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=52&Overide=0

Suddenly <£5k seems like a bargain ;) I'm not a bit fan of London ....

[Luckypants]

IMHO it depends on where you are travelling to. If in Europe, pretty much anything will be fine (Toyota / Nissan / Isuzu / LR / Mitsubishi). If travelling to Africa then your best bet would be a Toyota Land Cruiser or LR series III 109.

if you need cheap, an Isuzu Trooper mark I with the 2.8 diesel are pretty bullet proof, but all have been to the moon and back by now. Make sure the clutch is sound.

Also have you considered the off-road people carriers that the Japs made, such as the Mitsubishi Delica or Mazda Bongo?

[gettin2dizzy]

Also have you considered the off-road people carriers that the Japs made, such as the Mitsubishi Delica or Mazda Bongo?
A real man could never drive around in a 'Mazda Bongo' :laughat:

[21QUEST]

Read title and initial thought was, "Err, why? ....wrong forum in any case " - don't ask :rolleyes: :D


Ben

[Luckypants]

A real man could never drive around in a 'Mazda Bongo' :laughat:
But look at this bad boy.....

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v217/130/34/649465774/n649465774_993423_9078.jpg

My lad's Delica.

[Baph]

Read title and initial thought was, "Err, why? ....wrong forum in any case " - don't ask :rolleyes: :D


I read it wrong first too... hence my post ^. :rolleyes:

[Ceri JC]

Depends on the sort of offroading you're doing. If it's just rutted farm tracks/fire roads, most cars with a reasonable ground clearance will be fine; think of rally cars! I'd only bother with a real 4x4 if you're going to be doing 'proper' offroading (IE something where a car would get stuck/couldn't climb).

[SV-net]

Toyota Hilux Surf mate.
remember Top Gear and the Hilux feature. Basically this is the same with a back on it.

[neio79]

Ex Military Landrover defender 110 'wolf' version is what you want.

forget all the crap that comes with most 'off roaders' if you need to go off road you need the most rugged capable 4x4.

[yorkie_chris]

Diesel 110

[Jayneflakes]

Or try here

http://www.bowler-offroad.com/Wildcat%20eurobaja.htm

This could be just what you need. :smt077 See related pic I posted in Beautiful cars.

[Razor]

less than 3K...
not going to get much in the 4x4 department with that, might stretch to a hilux pick up with a truckman top, if you're lucky

[jimmy__riddle]

Hilux, i fix mine with a hammer. dont get a surf though, get a pickup with truckman top. the surfs are known for being not as reliable as the pickup, as they put a turbo onto the normal pickup engine and it negates the pickups reliability.

normally a few for sale here http://www.elite4x4.co.uk/

[ocr_sv]

yeah when i said bulletproof, i generally meant reliable, i'm not heading to the gaza strip anytime soon, As for off road capabilites, i'd rather have them than not, and get somewhere and then be stuck to taking the road.

I looked at them old nissan patrols, thought about a surf, but only for about a minute, its not a real hilux in my book. What about Mitsubishi shoguns/pajeros? And the toyota land cruiser. The defender 110 would be my fave, but its just the price, as they hold them really well, but i've got an old farmer mate would said he will be able to teach me to fix it with hammer and a spanner

We are planning to go through spain and into morroco, mauritania etc, as many safe places in africa as possible really, it all depends on how much money we can get together between now and next summer, the more money we have, the better the car, but the less we spend on the car, the futher we go,

i do like them tent tops you can get for the landys but there over a grand which is quite an expense, unless i can get a second hand one.

[gettin2dizzy]

TO be honest I'd go for a subaru. There's nothing as reliable, they're 4wd and it'll be cheaper to run which is really worth focusing on. The forester has lots of ground clearance (for all but the dirtiest stuff) and as it's pretty ugly so it's dirt cheap. Even a legacy would be more than up to the job. For £1500 you could get a gem

[neillfergie]

forget any land rovers mate they will leave you stuck somewhere, only accountants in Australia drove discos for the look.

gotta be a older hilux or land cruiser, they are so tough its not even funny and they are cheap as chips to buy.

yes i am biased too but i wouldn't sell them if i didn't think they were the best.

[neillfergie]

http://www.frogsisland4x4.com/Gallery/content/Vehicles/Toyota%20Landcruiser%2080%20series/DSC02837.jpg

[embee]

...as they say in Aussie land, if you want to go out into the bush, get a Land Rover. If you want to come back again, get a Toyota.

[K]

Daihatsu Fourtrack.

I had a J reg 2.8 LWB 7 seater Turbo Diesel - handled really well, pulled a fully laden box trailer and barely noticed the extra weight, actually was reasonably economic fuel wise unless you were flooring it up the motorway and was completely reliable - good ol' Jap engineering.

Often gets overlooked - but if you aim for the version just before the 'Fatboy' (with the extra flared wheel arches etc) you can pick one up for a decent price...

... oooh yeah - and that model also had the little spherical horozontal alignment bubble thingy that'll let you know how far you are leaning over and whether you're about to roll it! :twisted:

[ocr_sv]

yeah i like them land cruisers, looks pretty up to the job, the earlier boxy one too.

Anyone know if they did a non-turbo land cruiser? just thinking about realiability, one less thing to go wrong

[The Basket]

Japanese.

Land Rover and Jeep have a bad rep.

Cheap Suzukis if you don't mind the hairdresser look.

Dunno what the Koreans are like.

[skeetly]

I love old landies.
They are cheap to fix but thats just as well. They need fixing regularly. If you took my 109gs to africa you would very likely come back with a different landrover with all the bits you would need to replace; no joke.
And then theres the petrol.....
Get a cheap jap innit. Ahem or a bike :)

[neillfergie]

you can run the diesels on anything...

http://biodieseladventure.com/english/index.php

and i wouldn't worry too much about the turbos, they run quite low boost so aren't under a lot of stress and have a good oil supply so tend to live forever.

don't forget if your going deep into the hotter parts of the world its nice to have something that has a/c that will work and an engine that will keep its cool. the cruiser will do that every time.
http://www.theotherafrica.com/gallery-images/land-cruiser.jpg

ps the locals will know how to fix them with some string and a hammer if it does break so relax.

[PeterM]

...as they say in Aussie land, if you want to go out into the bush, get a Land Rover. If you want to come back again, get a Toyota.

Only on ill-informed Toyota forums.

[PeterM]

With the list of places you are considering going to i would seriously look at a Series 3 109. The ability to use parts from various years of Land Rovers to keep them going (if required) will be advantageous.

For the initial outlay, you will not get as good a vehicle if you go looking at a Toyota and you will have to go older. The Toyota is usually heavier and has steel panels (isn't it a bit damp in the UK? Check thoroughly for rust.). The one clear advantage the Toyota has going for it is a bigger engine.

Simple is good. The more crap you have fitted, especially in an older vehicle, like power steering and air con, the greater chane you have of something going wrong that you cannot fix.

It would be wisdom to fit new dampers to whatever to take with you as this will keep things much more comfortable.

Here are some pics of 'accountants' with their 'for the looks' Land/Range Rovers.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/k2svpete/DSCF0821.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/k2svpete/IMG_0247_1.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/k2svpete/DSC_0060_Medium_.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/k2svpete/MARR-6ZTBE3.jpg

[neillfergie]

what you cant see in the pics is the landcruiser they brought to tow them out of the mud when they get stuck! lol

seriously though, the landies are very very capable off road but they are nowhere near as tough as the toyota. thats why landies market share in australia went down to almost nothing when the cruser was introduced there.

my uncle lives in darwin and swears by them as do all his friends, as he told me its not the best looking car in the world but you look better driving past in it than sitting in a broken down car. they prize reliability above everything there, that says a lot

[PeterM]

The marketshare of Land Rover declined in Australia for many reasons. The Land Rovers being bad or unreliable vehicles weren't some of them.

The Toyota importer to Australia was a large company that had many arms to it. The company was awarded the contract to create the Snowy River Hydro-electric scheme. Being the Toyota importers they kitted out the whole company with Toyotas.

The Toyotas were not as capable as the Land Rovers and suffered reliability issues at first but they came with a big old American engine that was much more powerful than the 2 1/4l 4 cyl in the Landies. Toyota was very aggressive in their marketing and essentially put Land Rover dealers out of business by offering farmers generous trade-ins on their Landies and a great price on a new Toyota. Toyota did, and still does, a lot of product development work in Australia due to our variety of landscapes, terrain and climate. Land Rover sat on their hands and did next to nothing in terms of product development and didn't combat the Toyota marketing.

Go forward 20 years and the Defender is brought out. Light years ahead of any competition but 20 years of neglect had relegated the marque. Today the corporate decision makers still haven't learnt as it is rare to find a LR dealer outside a capital city or a large regional centre. Toyota dealers are everywhere.

Reliability issues are a myth (in how they are presented). All vehicles have problems, LR tend to have frequent annoying little ones while when a Toyota/Nissan etc go wrong they do it in a big way.

The Aust Army tested a variety of vehicles in the early 80's when looking for a general service vehicle. Land Cruisers, Jeeps, Patrols as well as the Defender were all evaluated. The LR came out on top in the trials by a long way. While it was found that it was one of the first vehicles to have things like an interior fan fail or a button come off, it held together in the important areas while other vehicles were breaking engine & gearbox mounts, suspension components etc.

The typical Toyota owner is very parochial and will swear their vehicle is the best until they are blue in the face. Trying to get them to consider anything else is nigh on impossible. LR may have shot themselves in the foot with regional Aust sales forever.

[jimmy__riddle]

The typical LR owner is very parochial and will swear their vehicle is the best until they are blue in the face. Trying to get them to consider anything else is nigh on impossible. LR may have shot themselves in the foot with regional Aust sales forever.

Dont worry, i corrected it for you! :smt075

[yorkie_chris]

Both, come one, look on here any time someone asks what exhaust to buy... everyone is dead certain that whatever they have is the best on the market!

The thing I like about the land rovers is the ability to fix and maintain them with a handful of tools and a big hammer. I don't have as much experience on the foreign stuff anyway but they seem more complicated.

[neillfergie]

as i said i am heavily biased ( i sell toyotas!) but im also speaking from experience too as there is a landie dealer behind us.

all cars will break down, especially cheap ones and old ones, so its a bit of a lottery sometimes.

[lookskyward1]

the plan was to buy a solid 4x4 thats cheap and easy to repair, less that ?3k,

You have answered your own question, the vehicle you need is a series III Land Rover LWB 109" with a 2.25 or 2.5 non turbo diesel engine. They are simply built, cheap to buy, very cheap to fix/bodge, and parts are readily available the world over.

I reccomend spending up to 2K buying one and the rest on preparation and spares

Check out some of the LR forums
http://forum.landrovernet.com/index.php
http://www.lro.com/forum/
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/

It will be dearer to buy an equivelant Japenese vehicle in a decent state and very expensive and complicated to repair if you can get the parts, there are not that many survive as long as the old LR series models.

Good luck and take your time choosing the right vehicle.

[lookskyward1]

as i said i am heavily biased ( i sell toyotas!) but im also speaking from experience too as there is a landie dealer behind us.

all cars will break down, especially cheap ones and old ones, so its a bit of a lottery sometimes.

You may be right about reliability when you compare new vehicles but we are talking about a 4X4 for less than 3K so your argument is blown out of the water............

By the way do you have a water pump in stock for a 1976 landcruiser and how much is it?

[gettin2dizzy]

cheap to repair is all very well in the UK where people have the know how and parts.

Having lived in a land rover for 6 months (yes....LIVED) outside of Europe, I would go Jap. I loved mine; but I would have a Toyota or Nissan every time from now. :)

[MiniMatt]

Ok, so budget is £3k? Buy a Lada Niva - http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=186& - and buy another every few thousand miles :D They're so simple you can fix them with a hammer, or get the local goat herder to fix them with a hammer. Every single part can be bodged with whatever's to hand, none of this "need a water pump for a '94 Landie - find any old water pump and with enough sealant it'll last a couple hundred more miles, buy another for a tenner when it dies. They're **** cars but they're simple, the chassis will rot before you scrap it, and when you come to scrap it there'll be no original components left other than the chassis.

Best of all - you can buy at least 15 of them for £3k :D

[neillfergie]

just checked with my parts dept, can get a part for any old toyota provided i have a a chassis number! not sure if we keep them in stock though! lol

seroiusly though your talking about belts and pipes giving you bother if your doing high mileage in warm weather so take some spares of those.

[rowdy]

don't think anyones mentioned mitsubishi shogun/pajero yet they're cheap (father inlaw just bought 91 j reg 99thou miles for 1300 quid). worked for a surveyor once who bought one years ago because he was working in a dessert and considered it to be one of the lightest 4x4s and less likely to get stuck and has kept it for donkeys years. Nissan patrols are very sturdy and reliable. Land Rovers are the dogs for going of road, discovery's are sh** (my opinion sorry to offend) and reliability is questionable (head gaskets) run a mile from Jeep Cherokee's. Toyota landcruiser probably your best bet if you can find one just watch the news and any reports coming from africa or the middle east and your likely to see one or several of them in the background doing un work or something of the like so thats got to tell you something.

[Wayluya]

I would go for the best 4x4 that you can find for your budget. Exactly which one being a secondary consideration.

From the sounds of it you are not going to be doing anything that requires 110% reliability to avoid dying. So a breakdown will only be an inconveniance of varying proportions....... And on a £3k budget yer ain't gonna get 110% reliability anyway no matter what model you buy. and if not trying to drive up Everest no real need for the ultimate 4x4.

Going hot I would certainly be thinking aircon........I like Japanese stuff. and it's all over the 3rd world.