NHS - Arghhhhhh!

[krhall]

Before I go off on one, apologies to anyone who works within the NHS, it can't be an easy job and seems to be made more difficult by lack of comms.

<rant>
I have had a really bad back for 3 years and recently it has been getting worse to the point where I have had to go back on medication.

Originally (2 years back) I was referred, finally, to Rhumatology (sp?) where I saw the consultant who never really touched my back (always found that strange). Anyway I was sent for an MRI, which showed a disc bulge but not enough to be causing the issue, so was then sent for a bone scan, again this proved inconclusive.

He then decided that I should do a course of physio, not sure why as he hadn't diagnosed anything, but I went anyway.

Each week the phsyio thought it was something else and after about 8 weeks of 2 sessions per week, I walked in and he decided on of my legs was longer than the other and sent me to surgical appliances.

These guys gave me a shoe raise (read lump of rubber) to put in my shoe, whihc made my back worse.

So I decided that enough was enough and tried to get an appointment to see the consultant again. As if it would ever be that easy!

The consultant I was seeing had left and I therefore had to be re-referred by my doctor. Again as if that would be easy!

I went to him after spending a whole 5 days trying to get an appointment, then turned up 5 mins early for my appointment, although as he was 55 mins late for the appointment I shouldn't have worried. He clearly hadn't read my notes as he asked me what the problem was, which I told him and then he continued to try and prescribe me a drug I am allergic too, despite the bright red flashing notice on his PC, warning him of this.

Still I managed to get him to refer me and to be fair it only took 6 weeks from referral to my appointment today.

My appointment today was at 9:30am (appointments start at 9:00), as always I turned up a little early (9:20) to make sure the traffic etc didn't make me late, signed in and sat there waiting.

To cut a long story short I finally got to see the consultant at 11:25........no explanation, nothing!!! I was in there about 2 minutes and sent for an x-ray where another 90 minutes of my life slipped away.

Finally went back to rhumatology for another 45 minute wait to be told there was nothing he could do for me and that he was referring me to the pain clinic, which if I was lucky would only be a 3 month wait - WTF?

All the staff I met and spoke to were really nice and friendly and clearly good at what they do, but I feel like I am not getting the care I think I deserve from the NHS and in the mean time I am left having to pay for my own physio, pilates and continue running to try and ease the pain enough for it to be manageable, not fun as I have two young kids.......

</rant>

[MiniMatt]

I sympathise greatly. I think the NHS is something that we should be justly proud of, free medical care is something that's extremely rare in the world and we should consider ourselves pretty damn lucky. But. (there's always a "but"). The NHS would be ten times better if we sacked every single doctor. The nurses, the physios, they're all great - the doctors however, I've got nothing but extremely poor memories of. The simple act of reading notes should be compulsory - they're being paid 60K plus, quite often well into 100K plus territory - the least they can do is read the sodding notes. If they're too busy then perhaps we should be hiring twice as many doctors on half the salary. Every single time I've seen a doctor I've had to say "no, that's not the right course of treatment, if you read my notes you'll see that we've already established that the cause isn't X but Y". Or better yet, "the last time we tried drug X I was in a coma in hospital for three days, perhaps you'd like to read the notes?". Actually twice that's happened now. The last time A&E were good enough to apparently interrupt my last "consultant"'s holiday, ask him why the hell he'd put me on a course of X when my notes clearly stated I was taking Y and how a first year med student could apparently tell that the two together would do serious damage.

The NHS would be ten times better if they simply got rid of every single doctor and just left it in the hands of nurses.

[melody]

Sounds like rough deal you've had.:(

Unfortunately, Consultants seem to work best with an entourage of multi disciplinary staff who have all the necessary information about the patient at their finger tips. :rolleyes:

Obviously this doen't help your situation at all. Don't know what to recommend really. Perhaps you could put in a complaint and maybe your case would be reviewed?

[Jayneflakes]

Good luck with your Pain Clinic visit.

I am under one of them, not that you would really know it...

The last time I went, I had requested that I was once again, injected under X Ray with the suitable pain killer as before. However the very sweet and utterly clueless Doctor told me that they could only do that in the morning and I should have requested an early appointment.

Oh noes, I had done that and it had been ignored. ](*,)

Then the ****bag tried to give me a a tricyclic antidepressant to control the pain, despite the fact that it was in my records that I could not have the drug. :toss:

[krhall]

Well, it seems like I am certainly not alone in my woes.............makes me really angry and pain clinic sounds scary. I just want to find out what the problem is and therefore how best I can manage it, simply numbing the pain doesn't really help although might improve the quality of my life some.

If it stops hurting I'll be able to stop running!

[Jayneflakes]

Well, it seems like I am certainly not alone in my woes.............makes me really angry and pain clinic sounds scary.

The Pain Clinic can be very useful, It was only my last appointment that was rubbish.

Since then I have implemented some good advice from a Holistic Chemist! I kid you not, she took me to one side and told me my drugs were rubbish and I should maybe think about the effects of empowerment and positive thinking and new drugs.

So if you ever find a chemist called Susan working out of Plymouth, she is amazing and she talks sense. Mind you she did talk me out of having my Bean pierced, so she may not be that sensible! :pale:

[custard]

not good matey. have you thought about going to a private chiropractor or whatever just for the diagnosis? may save the agro in the future.

my last stint with the NHS resulted in some loverly metalwork being put in my arm after a game of rugby.

part 1. nurse is manipulating my arm to get the fracture in the right place, which she does. all pain went from my upper arm. until someone behind her called her name... turns head, of course arms move doc slaps plaster round it... and plasters my shirt in at the same time...

then have op to put metal work in (morphine is wonderful by the way) and i end up with a bandage... which was fine for about 4 days...

it turns out the pain killers i was on kinda bung you up a bit....
coupla minutes on the thunderbox the exertion starts pumping blood round the body (proper head shaker if you see). arm swells up under bandage so much so i have to call an ambulance and take another trip to a&e.
trying to explain the situation to the nurse was somewhat embarassing...

incidently. next time you get gas and air, try doing chef impressions... works a treat :)

[Speedy Claire]

i`m curious as to why you were referred to rheumatology in the first place as opposed to an orthopaedic specialist? did a blood test show a raised rheumatoid factor or evidence of arthritis? I`m assuming that maybe you`ve seen one by now but if not ask to be referred to an orthopaedic specialist and see if they can sort you out. It could be that the bulging disc whilst not too severe is pressing on a nerve which can cause really severe pain. Best of luck and tho i work for the NHS I have to admit i`m inclined to agree with your gripes.

[krhall]

Mind you she did talk me out of having my Bean pierced, so she may not be that sensible! :pale:

Well wasn't expecting that, although the thought took my mind off the back pain for a moment!!!

SpeedyC - I'm not too sure why Rhumatology, that was where the doctor referred me, I was surprised too and asked if he was sure, to which he got defensive.

I just woke up one morning and couldn't move, that's how it all started.

I have never seen an orthopedic specialist, although have wondered why?

No idea where to go next.

Have tried all-sorts to try and sort it out, including accupuncture and I hate needles.............the disc bulge is not compressing any nerves, this can be seen on the MRI.

[Neeja]

I've got to say in defence of NHS doctors, some of them are spectacular.

I'm currently suffering quite bad wrist-pain as a result of an accident two weeks back, and went back for a second round of X-rays on Sunday. After the X-ray I had to wait to see a doctor, and the one I got couldn't have been better. She was absolutely lovely, listened to me attentively and explained what was going to go on afterwards. She even told me that if the MRI which she referred me for was on Wednesday, that she was working during that day and if I asked for her she'd take a look at the results as soon as she was free. Typically the MRI appointment came through for 8am the next day, but oh well ;)

Of course, this lovely doctor was balanced by the original doc in A+E. After explaining to the triage nurse what happened, followed by explained to the nurse who went through initial treatment, I still had to repeat everything to the doc, who then asked me a ton of unrelated questions which I'd already answered.

It's all a bit of pot-luck, I reckon. Sad state of affairs.

[dizzyblonde]

I was referred to the pain clinic, and, was on the waiting list for quite a while, as its hard to get in one. I was glad of the wait, as after looking at the Xray i was given of my spine, some 8 months after I fell, the consultant showed me an image that he said contained a fracture of the 3rd lumbar wotsit.
I was surprised and told him that my doctor had said there was nothing wrong. It kind of made me wonder why I had sat in agony for 12 months, until i got to see the pain clinic consultant. It made me feel relieved that after 12 months of people thinking I was putting it on, that finally someone proved I FLIPPIN HURT

[krhall]

I know what you mean, everything seems to be coming up as inconclusive but I spend all day every day in agony and I too feel like people think I'm putting it on a bit.........which believe me I'm not.

I just don't know what to do now. It would be nice to be pain free but I would rather find out exactly what is going on with my back so I can manage it more effectively if that is possible. Seems like you are on your own out there and nobody really explains the choices......

Can I ask for a referral to see an Orthopedic consultant?

[Speedy Claire]

yes you can.... just go see your GP and ask to be referred

[Stig]

It's mixed for me.

My bad back was wrongly diagnosed and I spent months on heavy pain killers and a physiotherapy course which was doing more damage and no good what so ever. After many complaints I went in to a physio session without the aid of pain killers ( I could barely walk). I went back to the consultant who sent me for an MRI scan. I had a crushed lower disc which was removed. From scan to operation was less than 6 months.

[Red Herring]

I
The NHS would be ten times better if they simply got rid of every single doctor and just left it in the hands of nurses.

Like you've thought that one through.....what a plonker!

[MiniMatt]

Oh please, I don't think there's any reason to resort to personal insults? I'd like to think that my post was obviously written with more than a little tongue in cheek but I appreciate that it's sometimes hard to discern such intent in a purely written form. Personal experience with the NHS, of which I've had far too much lately has left me with the impression that nurses/ancilliary staff have upwards of double the medical knowledge and at least double the professionalism of the doctors I've encountered.

For the record, as it appears to need to be spelt out, no I can't envisage an NHS without doctors being effective, although from this patient's perspective almost all the problems I've witnessed can be laid at the feet of doctors, not nurses/ancilliary staff.

[Jabba]

Sounds like a complete 'mare and the total opposite of my recent experience when one on my nippers broke a finger.

These guys gave me a shoe raise (read lump of rubber) to put in my shoe, whihc made my back worse.

You did put it in the correct shoe, didn't you? ;)

[krhall]

Yep correct shoe.......just kept walking round in circles after though!!!

[dizzyblonde]

I know what you mean, everything seems to be coming up as inconclusive but I spend all day every day in agony and I too feel like people think I'm putting it on a bit.........which believe me I'm not.

I just don't know what to do now. It would be nice to be pain free but I would rather find out exactly what is going on with my back so I can manage it more effectively if that is possible. Seems like you are on your own out there and nobody really explains the choices......

Can I ask for a referral to see an Orthopedic consultant?

Just don't give up. If you feel sh""ite then its obvious to you theres something wrong...after all they aren't the ones to feel how you feel. Adding to what I said above, I started getting a recurrence of the back problem a year or so ago, added to the dodgy shoulder that I've had permenantly for the last 15 years. I've had two steroid injections in that, one of which the consultant that did it in the hospital asked why I couldn't move it properly and I should start using it correctly....because I'm in agony you daft tit!!
Anyway back to the point.....I asked to be referrred back to physio because I had two different things going on, and it was driving me nuts.
I got to physio and he started to do routine checks and movements to figure out what was wrong, and after laying on my front with right foot somewhere above my head he proclaimed I was Hypermobile. I am super stretchy, Always thought it was down to being a gymnast for 10 years. Also he picked up on a tilted pelvis, which wasn't helping the spine problem, which had never been picked up before.....a few weeks of tailored excercises and my back problem has practically disappeared, it will always have a weak point but its manageable.
as for the shoulder well, no muscle strength in there, good biceps, forearms, but none in the joint, the tendons are stretched to capacity and are foobarred. Hypermoblilty prevents me from controling movement in it, if I'm not strict on building the excercise in it, I'll never make it work right.

It amazing how just getting the right person at the right time, will cure or improve you. I was lucky that this NHS physio could be bothered to look between the lines so to speak, as I'd have been constantly thinking there was something wrong, but not to others. Other doctors, and physios had missed big things.
There is -I'm hypermobile, because I've gained understanding in what it is, i can control it....it has its uses, phnar, phnar:cool:, but when I've been overdoing stuff I'm like a 70 year old woman:(

[Red Herring]

Like you've thought that one through.....what a plonker!

Yes MiniMatt that was a personal insult, but quite justified I thought given what you said about an entire profession who in the main put in a considerable amount of time and effort to improve the lives of others. And I've also re-read your post and can't see the slightest clue you were trying to be "tounge in cheek".

For the record I have had my share of time in hospital,and like you I found the nurses, the people who I actually saw on an hourly basis looking after me, extremely caring and professional and I am grateful for the treatment they gave me. I also had experience of the consultant on his weekly round who walked in, didn't say hello or ask how I was, prodded me where it hurt most and walked out, leaving me spitting and swearing. However it was that same consultants time and expertise that meant I kept my arm so I'm very grateful to him to.

[MiniMatt]

Bleh, oh well. Despite it being quarter to three in the morning I'm really not going to lose sleep over "oh noes! someone insulted me on an internetz motorsicle forum!". Let me put it this way, I'd have thought that it was a given that anyone who can (a) string a sentence together and (b) operate a computer would not in all seriousness genuinely believe that the best way to improve the NHS would be to remove all doctors. Given that my post demonstrated an ability to string a sentence together and use a computer, ergo, I (erroneously as it apparently turns out) took it as a given that such a suggestion would be taken as more than a little exaggeration.

Congratulations on your free personal insult, I shall afford you the decency of trying not to return the favour :D

[krhall]

:smt014Now - Now chaps, no handbags in my thread please........:smt008

Anyone suggesting that the best way to sort the NHS is to get rid of doctors is clearly either joking or MiniMatt, a sparring partner of mine!!!:smt062

[Devil Biccy]

I've had problems with my back from an early age and went through lots of x-rays and physio etc in my early childhood and also late Twenties.

I've also had acupuncture/chiropracters and osteopaths help me manage the back pain. oh yeah and the wedge thing in the shoes which was recommended by a chiropodist. They take atleast a months to get used to as realigmnet of the spine takes time but it did help with reducing back pain.

I found swiming the best for adding strengh to my back muscles but realise that my only option for being pain free is to have 3 vertebraes fused together Which right now is not something I wish for.

As for who you could be referred to well the new system allows you to ask your GP for a referaal to anyone and also to anywhere in the country too so your not stuck just in your locality, Have you thought about a referral to the National Orthopadeic centre near Watford in Hertforshire that houses the countries best Orthopaedic doctors and nurses?

[krhall]

Didn't know I could do that, perhaps that might be my next move.

I have been doing pilates for the last 4 weeks and have noticed that it is helping a bit and making it very clear that I have some weaknesses in my pelvic area and possibly my glutes.

[Jayneflakes]

The NHS would be ten times better if they simply got rid of every single doctor and just left it in the hands of nurses.


Sorry, I am with Matt here, get rid of Doctors.........



Let us have sexy nurses in short dresses and lots of rubber,


just like I have hanging in the wardrobe (the dress,not the Nurse. She is under the bed!)..... :smt079

Berate me all you like, you know I am right....:smt036

[krhall]

?

[Jayneflakes]

** This Thread Is Meaningless Without Pictures **


Oh Noes,

I can't find where Carol has hidden the Nurse photo's.....

Oh what a shame.....

Oh well, we shall just have have to do some more. Then you will be able to buy them from our website! :smt036

[dizzyblonde]

Didn't know I could do that, perhaps that might be my next move.

I have been doing pilates for the last 4 weeks and have noticed that it is helping a bit and making it very clear that I have some weaknesses in my pelvic area and possibly my glutes.

It was pilates that helped me in the end. keep at it, because its so gentle, it may take a while to show significance....maybe I should take my own advice, the damn shoulder needs attention....lol

Sorry, I am with Matt here, get rid of Doctors.........



Let us have sexy nurses in short dresses and lots of rubber,


just like I have hanging in the wardrobe (the dress,not the Nurse. She is under the bed!)..... :smt079

Berate me all you like, you know I am right....:smt036

Ahh, someone mentioned the rubber word again...hmmm perhaps rubber would cure Im Indoors phobia of nurses, one week to go and he wont be able to run away from them so quick:smt047

[Red Herring]

Sorry, I am with Matt here, get rid of Doctors.........



Let us have sexy nurses in short dresses and lots of rubber,


just like I have hanging in the wardrobe (the dress,not the Nurse. She is under the bed!)..... :smt079

Berate me all you like, you know I am right....:smt036

Now that kind of humor I can recognise....although personally I find doctors in short dresses quite attractive to. I guess being married to one I'm slightly biased, but then it does at least explain why I bit so easily.....

ps: If it helps the serious side of this thread any most doctors are equally frustrated with exactly the same issues you are raising. The NHS has become so departmentalised with every hospital, and doctor, just doing what they are asked, and paid, to do that nobody is looking out for each other. The problem with medicine is that despite what people think it's not an exact science and frequently you need to start at the bottom of a list of things that may be wrong and slowly work your way up it. In the old days consultants and registrars would do their bit, realise it wasn't the problem then refer directly to the next consultant (often in the same hospital and during the same visit). Now they refer back to the GP who has to then refer it on, which would sort of work if you always saw the same GP each time, but of course with the Government forcing in big multi practices (or poly clinics as they want to call them) you don't, so the GP should take the time to read all the other ones notes, in order to move on, but as they are still forced into sub ten minute appointments they don't have time.....see where I'm coming from?
My wife is still old school GP. She has her own list which she tries to stick to. She works part time (is paid for four sessions a week) but in order to give her patients the time she spreads them over 5 sessions so her partners can't complain she isn't seeing enough patients per session. Problem is half the patients in the practice want to get on her list... Over the past five years i have had to watch her becoming more and more frustrated with a profession that she has put the last 25 years of her life into, to the point where she wants to up and leave the country. If it wasn't for the fact that our children are still at school and I'm getting within sight of my pension we'd go, then given the number of her colleagues that are also about to retire or emigrate those that want an NHS without doctors (or at least English speaking ones) will get their way!!

[krhall]

Right NHS part.....lost count.

Decided to go back to the doctors and ask to be referred to the orthopeadic consultant as suggested on here, managed to get an appointment for the very next day (very unusual) and turned up this morning for it, early as always and to be fair the appointment was only about 15 mins late.
I got in there and it was a locum, who let me explain everything then I asked for the referral, to which he replied he wasn't comfortable doing and would have to write a note for my doctor, who as I have already said doesn't read notes, even bright red flashy ones!

While I was in there I mentioned something else that had been giving me issues, totally unrelated, but as I was there. Again the same bloody answer, WTF?

So on my way out I had a word with the Practise Manager, an uptight Scottish lady who clearly didn't want to speak to me. I could come back in an hour and a half and see my doctor. I declined as I had a hospital appointment to attend, come on to that in a minute. So instead I have to go again tomorrow am...........more time off work.

So on to my next appointment to see orthotics about the shoe raise which made things worse, got there early they were about 5-10 mins behind, no problem.

Went in and saw the bloke who told me to stop using it and to go back to my doctors to be referred back to Physio!!! Why can they not do this referring they are afterall in the same f*****g hospital?

I'm getting madder by the minute with all this.

Can I ask for multiple referrals in one visit? What are my rights? What if my doctor says no?

HELP!!!!

[Biker Biggles]

You may have to deal with the fact that none of them have a clue what to do about your problem,and rather than lose face and admit it they are passing the buck around.
Medical care these days is very much like a factory production line with targets and deadlines,meaning that anything not fitting the "one size fits all"culture is likely to get a poor service.The whole thing is performance managed,but that does not extend to outcomes and satisfied recipients.The private sector is actually even worse,as they cherry pick the best cases for their specific production lines.Your case sounds like it wouldnt fit well there either.

[Speedy Claire]

I don`t see why you can`t ask for multiple referrals..... explain to your GP that it is costing you valuable time off work and your employer is getting a tad fed up!!! Best of luck and sorry you don`t seem to be getting anywhere but keep at it!!