View Full Version : Vets, bills and anger
So the dog gets poorly and starts pooing blood. (sorry, but its relevant)
So we take her to the vet. We get told that we've just caught it in time, and its an intestinal infection of sorts that hasn't yet spread to the bowel.
We get prescribed a carrierbag full of drugs to flush out the nasties and start building gut flora back up from scratch. Cost? £96. I believe this (cos I am not a vet) and we go home to administer the drugs, after booking a check up on the Monday to make sure shes getting better, not worse.
So poorly girl starts feeling better on Saturday and Sunday and goes back for a checkup Monday PM.
"all appears well" says the vet, in 3 minutes flat, and ushers us out of the room, back to reception where we are billed an extra £22 "consultation" and shown the door.
Am I annoyed? Yes.
Is this normal? I don't know.
I'd have assumed the post checkup would have been included, given it was just straightforward? I could have done what was done at home, without vet qualifications. No listening, poking, feeling or anything. Just looking.
I'm thinking of changing vets, just because of this. 3 minutes.
Thats £440 an hour...at that rate (literally)
I understand vets have to cover costs, and you're paying for their knowledge, expertise and expensive training, but this is taking the ****, isn't it?
Before it is said, yes, I know that without the correct prescription she could have died, all I'm getting at is what is "reasonable".
(That equates to an annual income, before tax of about £839,142p.a, by the way)
timwilky
22-07-08, 02:22 PM
Just the reason to have insurance or payment plan. Jasper managed to clock up £122 of bills in the past month because of an allergy. We asked why when he is on plan and was told. Oh, mistake by the girl who sends out the bills, nothing to pay
My job involves me going around vetinary surgerys and collecting blood samples and believe me what you have been charged is small fry compaired to some of the bills that I hear people being charged, I'm talking thousands of pounds here. Vets have to be so well qualified because their patients can not tell them what is the matter with them like us humans can , I think it takes something like 7 years for them to be qualified.
Our cat became pregnant and on the morning of the birth the first kitten had become stuck on the way out. This happened at about 5 in the morning and my wife called the vet, we were told that the call out charge would be 250 big ones plus other expenses, or we could cover our hands in fairy liquid and without being to graphic pull the cat out ourselves. No prizes for guessing which option we took, but unfortunately the first kitten's liquid sack that they are born in had burst and the kitten had swallowed the lot and when I eventually managed to get him out his back end looked like a water balloon, but he passed away moments later. He was followed by 4 more cats that were all healthy, but if the first kitten hadn't come out we would have lost the lot ,mother included. It may have saved us about 400 quid but I sure wish there was a vet there at the time.
My mum and dads German Shepard is forever in the Vets.
He has a really bad skin infection so he HAS to be left on steroids. But the vet wont prescribe repeat priscription, he has to see the dog every 2 weeks or so at full 'consultation' cost.
Rediculous really, its worth it to see Jake happy and not in agony though.
Built like a body builder now though lol he's huge.
We are currently £900 down to our local vets, saying that our Dennis has had two ops now and spent a few days in the vets overnight, worth every penny tbh.
Built like a body builder now though lol he's huge.
You should pimp him out Fridays and Saturday nights as doorstaff, make him earn his keep :D
I'd hate to see animals suffer, so I'd have to say that I agree that vets do a fantastic job, in summary.
My job involves me going around vetinary surgerys and collecting blood samples and believe me what you have been charged is small fry compaired to some of the bills that I hear people being charged, I'm talking thousands of pounds here. Vets have to be so well qualified because their patients can not tell them what is the matter with them like us humans can , I think it takes something like 7 years for them to be qualified.
Our cat became pregnant and on the morning of the birth the first kitten had become stuck on the way out. This happened at about 5 in the morning and my wife called the vet, we were told that the call out charge would be 250 big ones plus other expenses, or we could cover our hands in fairy liquid and without being to graphic pull the cat out ourselves. No prizes for guessing which option we took, but unfortunately the first kitten's liquid sack that they are born in had burst and the kitten had swallowed the lot and when I eventually managed to get him out his back end looked like a water balloon, but he passed away moments later. He was followed by 4 more cats that were all healthy, but if the first kitten hadn't come out we would have lost the lot ,mother included. It may have saved us about 400 quid but I sure wish there was a vet there at the time.
Thats the thing see, as soon as you start to weigh up how much a life "costs", it all gets complicated / irrelevant
We are currently £900 down to our local vets, saying that our Dennis has had two ops now and spent a few days in the vets overnight, worth every penny tbh.
Jeesus. What is Dennis, and is he insured?
Jeesus. What is Dennis, and is he insured?
half collie, half german sheperd from what we can tell, and no he,s not insured tbh, we realised too late and he was to old at 7 to have him insured, he,s 15 now and these are the first health issues he,s ever had so cant complain really.
CoolGirl
22-07-08, 03:10 PM
by comparison, does anyone know the list price for a private human consultation of similar duration?
Some practices will include a follow-up consultation in with the initial fee (the one I use does) and some don't. Never be afraid to ask what is covered by the money you are paying out - even if you'll be claiming back from insurance or something...
... yes they are highly qualified people - but don't trust them automatically with 'simpler' matters. Like Doctors I guess - always have the guts to ask questions, even the dumb ones. ;)
Kodo (my dearly departed spaniel) racked up a bill that just topped a grand thanks to cancer - thanks to insurance I never had to worry about 'justifying' the cost of any tests - if ne needed it, he got it.
Same goes for the bundle of fuzzy demonic energy that is my pup Spider.:roll:
Now if I called the vet out to the stables for the horse (different practice to the ones I use for the mutt) I'd get charged a consultation fee, but if I walk him the few hundred yards to their centre at the other end of the Uni car-park... no fee. ;)
here is a question for you.
If you are stupid enough not to insure your pet and it gets a serious ilness how much would you be preared to spend before you cut your losses and had the pet put down??
here is a question for you.
If you are stupid enough not to insure your pet and it gets a serious ilness how much would you be preared to spend before you cut your losses and had the pet put down??
Stupid ? we left it too late thats all, and if theres hope theres money available
here is a question for you.
If you are stupid enough not to insure your pet and it gets a serious ilness how much would you be preared to spend before you cut your losses and had the pet put down??
Stupidity's a bit harsh - though not far off the mark if the costs of illness or injury aren't a consideration when thinking about getting a pet of any kind.
I know a couple of people who simply put money aside and are very disciplined about what their savings are used for... me - I'd probably blow the lot on cake and sycophants. :twisted:
There are other ways to ensure an animal gets the treatment it needs if money is an optional extra to your life - the Blue Cross, RSPCA centres etc. Though personally, I'd sell everything I had for any one of my boys (dog, horse, tortoise and lizard) if it would ensure them quality of life.
Hell, there are weeks that sometimes go by when there's more pet food than human food in my Tesco trolly. :oops:
Stupid ? we left it too late thats all, and if theres hope theres money available
I did not know you had not insured your pet and was not implying you directly Stewie , a turn of phrase i use. But surely responsible ownership is ensuring their welfare is caterd for by having adiquate insurance avalible should the worst happen and you cant afford the massive bill, therfore putting the pet down is the nly option.
I mean would people take out a loan of thousands to save a pet? This will sound callous but i wouldent, and yes i have my Dog insured to the hilt.
Stewie you said money would be avalible if neded, but surely that there is a point where you would have to accept the worst??
Luckypants
22-07-08, 03:36 PM
here is a question for you.
If you are stupid enough not to insure your pet and it gets a serious ilness how much would you be preared to spend before you cut your losses and had the pet put down??
not being insured is not necessarily being stupid. For me it is a case of diminishing returns. My dog (2) insurance is £50 a month or £600 a year. I cannot change to a cheaper provider as they are to old to be accepted by another insurer. I consider I will bin the insurance next year and save the £600 a year. So far my dogs have never needed anything major, so I could happily go up to £600 + in bills before considering PTS. In the case of my older dog, he has had a good life - if anything major came along PTS is probably the kindest option.
Its a tough call actually cos in the cold light of day its easy just to use credit cards etc to sort things out, I think we will know when the time is right tbh, I think you just do, but how much would I be prepared to spend ? honestly dunno mate.
Jayneflakes
22-07-08, 03:38 PM
by comparison, does anyone know the list price for a private human consultation of similar duration?
Four hours under the knife with the Urologist, seven days on the ward and all drugs came to £10 000.
Worth every penny to the life that little op saved. Thanks to the Nuffield in Brighton, some folks who mean a great deal to me are alive, well and safe. The guy who did it is a first class surgeon with a list of credentials like you would not believe. I would be tempted to state that he was the best urologist in Britain.
I guess you get what you pay for.
I would be absolutely lost if it were not for my Jasper. When I was really poorly in 2006, he turned up in a friends kitchen and came to live with me when she could not find his owners. He was obviously a very young kitten and he bonded to me. Just what I needed when I was recovering from being in hospital. I swear blind that he made me recover faster and he is an also absolutely beautiful Ginger Tom.:smt003
not being insured is not necessarily being stupid. .
I land on the side of i think it is foolish then, concidering with dogs, if they get out bite someone or cause a car accident YOU are liable for the costs incured by the injured!!
its not just about the Vets bills, which TBH should be a big concideration. If you get a dog or whatever and know you wont insure it , and not being able to affort to treat it properly if it gets ill due to cost or sacrificing things for our family to pay for a simple broken leg is IMO very selfish at the least.
Likea car or bike if you cant afford to care for it or run it dont have it!!
dizzyblonde
22-07-08, 03:51 PM
why do my vets bills always creep just under the excess, or a tad over, so I can't or can't be arrsseed to claim it back......
Damn annoying, but hey. I can just about afford the insurance every month, but I wouldn't have it any other way with my two pooches
BTW Neio, do you have a pet?
DoubleD
22-07-08, 03:56 PM
by comparison, does anyone know the list price for a private human consultation of similar duration?
About 4 years ago I was in hospital and had consultation with a doc that lasted about 5 mins, I told him I had private cover and he said he would do the operation tomorrow. That cost £680 for those 5 mins! well it cost the private cover.
appollo1
22-07-08, 04:06 PM
My dog has had a skin allergy almost all his life and every time it flames up we have to go to the vets for pills and potions. Luckily we are insured and as it is a recurring problem the insurance covers the cost.
Last year my dog had a twisted gut which was caught in time and he was operated on and stayed in the vets for about a week. Just under a grand for that operation.
A couple of months ago I noticed he was dragging his back legs a bit. Off to vets for xrays then referred to Glasgow vet Hospital. MRI scan then in for surgery following week to repair 6 slipped discs. Total cost for this one 4 grand. It would have been more but due to his fast recovery we didn't have additional hospital fees for him. Admitted wednesday, operation thursday, home sunday (considering he should have stayed in hospital for at least a week to recover) as he was well enough to come home.So 4 grand in fees, 2 hours drive there and 2 hours home not to mention the cost of fuel. 6 weeks later back to Glasgow for a check up and it was the same a quick look at him and yes he is fine!!! That check up alone cost me just under 50 pounds.
My dog is a German Shepherd and was bought in Germany, he is now 8 years old and if we were not insured I would have found the money from somewhere even if it meant selling the wife's car (well I would not sell my bike)
why do my vets bills always creep just under the excess, or a tad over, so I can't or can't be arrsseed to claim it back......
Damn annoying, but hey. I can just about afford the insurance every month, but I wouldn't have it any other way with my two pooches
BTW Neio, do you have a pet?
Yes i have an English springer Spaniel who is 5. and yep he is insured. Never had to claim luckly but i am glad i have the cover for piece of mind. As a Broken leg could cost thousands from start to full recovery.
CoolGirl
22-07-08, 05:19 PM
About 4 years ago I was in hospital and had consultation with a doc that lasted about 5 mins, I told him I had private cover and he said he would do the operation tomorrow. That cost £680 for those 5 mins! well it cost the private cover.
remind me never to send you out to negotiate a deal!;)
here is a question for you.
If you are stupid enough not to insure your pet and it gets a serious ilness how much would you be preared to spend before you cut your losses and had the pet put down??
Stupid is a bit harsh, the cat I mentioned earlier turned up in my back garden as a stray kitten and after lengthy searches for it's owner and visit to the vets she wasn't claimed by anyone so we took her in and booked an appointment for her to be spayed but when she went to the vets for her to be done they couldn't do it because she was already carrying kittens, so the insurance would probably not have paid out anyway, but as I mentioned she was a stray so we hadn't really planned anything like insurance etc.
ArtyLady
22-07-08, 06:11 PM
So the dog gets poorly and starts pooing blood. (sorry, but its relevant)
So we take her to the vet. We get told that we've just caught it in time, and its an intestinal infection of sorts that hasn't yet spread to the bowel.
We get prescribed a carrierbag full of drugs to flush out the nasties and start building gut flora back up from scratch. Cost? £96. I believe this (cos I am not a vet) and we go home to administer the drugs, after booking a check up on the Monday to make sure shes getting better, not worse.
So poorly girl starts feeling better on Saturday and Sunday and goes back for a checkup Monday PM.
"all appears well" says the vet, in 3 minutes flat, and ushers us out of the room, back to reception where we are billed an extra £22 "consultation" and shown the door.
Am I annoyed? Yes.
Is this normal? I don't know.
I'd have assumed the post checkup would have been included, given it was just straightforward? I could have done what was done at home, without vet qualifications. No listening, poking, feeling or anything. Just looking.
I'm thinking of changing vets, just because of this. 3 minutes.
Thats £440 an hour...at that rate (literally)
I understand vets have to cover costs, and you're paying for their knowledge, expertise and expensive training, but this is taking the ****, isn't it?
Before it is said, yes, I know that without the correct prescription she could have died, all I'm getting at is what is "reasonable".
(That equates to an annual income, before tax of about £839,142p.a, by the way)
I know it seems unfair but you have to remember that any professional person running a practice has to calculate their fees in relation to the the cost of their overheads (building, staff, equipment etc etc).
I know it seems unfair but you have to remember that any professional person running a practice has to calculate their fees in relation to the the cost of their overheads (building, staff, equipment etc etc).
Beat me to it. This is particularly true in the case of the veterinary service. Some vets provide 24hr coverage and so the wage bill is clearly higher. Vet drugs are also not cheap - I believe they are very costly to get licensced (if indeed they are liscenced at all). What you can't do is base the income of a vet on what you have been charged - if only things were that simple, we'd all be doing it. Another outgoing is the fees to a professional body (RCVS) which helps protect them during various legal processes (litigation etc)...it's a complex business and like many things, the true cost of the service that is provided is well concealed, often unintentionally - for instance, council tax, business rates, staff wages, phone bills, uniforms, training, paperwork etc etc all has to be paid for somehow. Anyways...big hugs to your pet - he/she is clearly worth it!!
appollo1
22-07-08, 09:18 PM
Vetinary medicine.
Don't forget that medicine for pets is calculated by the animals weight.
So if you have a Jack Russell then tablets will be cheaper but if you have a German Shepherd like me who weighs 52kg then tablets are really really expensive.
Not all medicine is animal only - when my dog came out of hospital he was on the same tablets my wife takes. Hers costs about a fiver on prescription, the dogs for the same amount was 20 pound.
Quoted from a GP on another site.Typical cost for private consultations from GP is about £25 for 10 minutes.
Per patient, per year, I am paid approximately £50, regardless of how many times I see them. That's a year's unlimited cover. The cheapest policy I could find for pet insurance - for a hamster - was £65 a year, plus £50 excess. So your health care costs less than your pet rodent's
jimmy-james
23-07-08, 01:06 AM
£120 for my rabbits teeth to be filed only for it to die in their care still having to part with the readdies. Sucks but i wouldn't be able to live with my self if we didn't try for him.
Al_Sweetman
23-07-08, 07:02 AM
Likening it to car garages - I lost my 'locking wheel nut' key so had to take it to a garage to have them changed.
£20 to change a wheel - managed to hagle the total labour to £50 by shouting and being generally abusive...They wanted to get rid of me in the end.
*******s - that's worse than the fecking vets - only took 5 mins too.
Also consultations are generally about 20 minutes, or at least that's what they 'timetable' for each - to allow for diagnosis/check-up etc and writing up of notes (which my vet actually reads, unlike my GP :roll:)...
... so even though your's was a short visit, if you look at 3 per hour that only makes an hourly rate of £66 - which makes it sound alot more reasonable doesn't it?
One of my dogs got bit by another dog a few weeks ago & ripped a whole in her side, the guy who owned the other dog said he would obviously pay the bill, i had to pick him off the floor when i gave him a bill for £400 for 45 minutes operating time.
Another thing is whenever we go to the vets the first thing they say is are they insured, i know for a fact if you say yes other extra's get added to the bill that don't always get used.
I remember as a kid our family having dogs & none of them were ever wormed, vaccinated or had flea drops, only time they went to a vet was if they got ill, one of our old dogs got knocked down by a car & busted his rear hip, vet just said leave it & he'll grow a gristle joint, we did & three months later he was back to jumping 5 foot fences, nowadays they'd put a pin & plate in, weekly check ups & present you with a bill for a grand or so.
shonadoll
24-07-08, 09:28 PM
My mum and dads German Shepard is forever in the Vets.
He has a really bad skin infection so he HAS to be left on steroids. But the vet wont prescribe repeat priscription, he has to see the dog every 2 weeks or so at full 'consultation' cost.
Rediculous really, its worth it to see Jake happy and not in agony though.
Built like a body builder now though lol he's huge.
I work in a vets and the minimum you can see the vet is once every six months, and that's after the new directive, so your vet is milking it I'd say.
shonadoll
24-07-08, 09:31 PM
by comparison, does anyone know the list price for a private human consultation of similar duration?
I was recently charged £250 for a 15 minute consultation with a neurologist, at a Bupa hospital.
21QUEST
24-07-08, 09:36 PM
Simply put, a lot of vets are robbing bar stewards. The best vets are those with 'old time/school heads' on them......still some of them around ;)
Ben
shonadoll
24-07-08, 09:36 PM
I work in a vets, and to be honest, I would have thought after spending that much money they should have charged a return consult fee, which is less than the initial(often longer) consult fee. Part of the problem we face is that we are used to the NHS, and subsidies, whereas veterinary medicine is full cost.
Also, programmes like pet rescue etc show the wonderful things that can be done, but never the acutal payment or cost. It's also a balancing act - if the client can't afford specific things, then it's a different approach needed, often not the most appropriate but cheaper, or our vets phone round trying to get drug samples from reps.
One thing I would say is that you should ask for a breakdown - vets should be upfront about the costs involved, just like every other business, so don't be afrid to ask, and go elsewhere if you are not happy. A good vet should listen and take on board your concerns. Also, speak to the receptionist - they are often very helpful regarding cost, or payment plans if needed.
husky03
24-07-08, 10:48 PM
They got you over a barrel-they know that most people will spend whatever it takes to try and get a loved pet back to health, but due to the majority of people not having a scooby doo about animal husbandry the bills are very rarely questioned-I was just over three and a half grand for kemo treatment for Storm but it didn't work for him and i had to let him go-i was glad i had insurance and all my dogs are insured to the hilt even the moggie too-but the quality of service from some vets leave alot to be desired.
husky
tanis34
25-07-08, 05:59 AM
i go to a brilliant vet he is one of the old school ,doesn't get on well with people but he is great with the animals ,had to take the dog down to have a growth removed £65 pounds for the op then when i took him for the check up he only charged £6 :notworthy:
i dunno how he maks it pay
SupaSonic
25-07-08, 06:51 AM
.
ArtyLady
25-07-08, 09:18 AM
i go to a brilliant vet he is one of the old school ,doesn't get on well with people but he is great with the animals ,had to take the dog down to have a growth removed £65 pounds for the op then when i took him for the check up he only charged £6 :notworthy:
i dunno how he maks it pay
He probably doesnt! - unless he is a one man band on his own with hardly any overheads :) - but as I said before when you are running a business you have to charge what is appropriate to cover your overheads - that includes me - I only spend approximately 1/3 of my working time actually painting - the rest is admin, collecting supplies, frames etc and I have insurance, accountancy fees etc etc. People often gasp when I quote for paintings but thats what it costs me to make a meagre living - if I charged any less Id be making a loss! :rolleyes:
I do wish people who have "proper" jobs would spare a thought for those of us going it alone...we shouldnt have to justify why we charge what we do...my 'ol man gets the same attitude - (he is a self employed mechanic) and my Father used to get the same (he ran his own Architectural Practice).
Fizzy Fish
25-07-08, 09:45 AM
I can understand why vets have a set consultancy fee - if you have an appointment system you can't book anything else into that slot in case you do need the whole consultation to deal with the situation. Also, they tend to work on averages, so sometimes it will take a bit more than the allotted time and they won't charge you extra.
At the end of the day it's like anything other business - if you don't like the service they provide/someone else offers a better deal, than you can always choose to go elsewhere in future. And if they pee enough people off they'll start to lose customers and will have to change their practices if they want to survive.
I do have a lot of sympthy for those who have to pay out a lot to treat a pet, but tbh that's what it costs to deliver. I have several friends who are vets and yes they earn a decent wage but not actually that extravagent (especially considering the amount of time taken to qualify), and those who have their own practices are constantly stressed about making ends meet, etc.
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