Ask the .Org

[Baph]

Well, slight conundrum that I apparently now face, so I thought I'd put it to you lot. :)

One of those who "must be obeyed" came over to me before with the comment of "Have you seen the trainee developer that we've got a vacancy for? Well, no-one else knows, but I'm also going to be offering other developer vacancies shortly - I'd appreciate you preparing your CV...".

That comment didn't come from my line manager, and he was being pretty quiet about it.

So decision time... do I go for it or not?

Pros:
- More money, though I don't know the range being offered.
- Development work again, instead of customer facing application support.

Cons:
- I've gone from support to dev before, and ended up acting as a go-between for the departments. It wasn't pretty. :( I was assured in the last company that I could back out of the transfer if I wanted, but they replaced me in support & then that wasn't an option.
- Extra stress of more deadlines to meet.

Now, the money would be handy, but I don't really relish the idea of the extra stress/workload. However, dev's in this company do get some perks, like less BS office politics than we get.

So, .Org'ers... what would you do?

[Daimo]

Ooo hard choice. Depend on what kind of person you are? I'd prep a C.V anyway, gets you up to date which is never a bad thing. Then find out about the job, go away and have a think.

Would it be more stressfull really, or is that a comparison to just another job? Would it be stress you realished, or loathed? Would it enhance your career and do you want another step up?

If you find out everything and like it, go for it? Whats the worst that can happen, your only looking internally, not externally for a job. At worst, you do it, don't like it, either move back to your old role (if possible?) or use the time to search for another job.

Me, if it entails a lot more stress, is it worth it? It would need to be, and I could only do it for so long. But thats just my outlook. I could only get really really stressed for a company of my own, which I don't own.... yet anyway.

[Jayneflakes]

It is always good to keep yourself up to date adn this time it could be a role you relish, try the interview and if at the end you don't like it, stay where you are...

If you do like it, feel free to run your life decisions past us again...

Trust the Org, we do know even better than yer Mum!

[Baph]

My CV is prep'd, it was the day I got this job. :lol: Always keep it up to date as I don't know what may crop up.

It'd certainly be more stressful that the current job. At the moment, I sit here doing naff all until something screws up, then have a finite amount of time to resolve the issue, whatever it may be. To me, that's not stressfull at all.

Probably 75% of the time, I'm sat here twiddling my thumbs (and ligitemately so), which leads to boredom.

In a development role, I'd be constantly doing something and those jobs would all have deadlines.

It was due to my last employer that I wasn't interested in development work, and that's the reason I opted for a support role. My old job was basically the same as this potential new role, with the added fun of a sales team selling products you don't have, setting deadlines you can't meet, then blaming the dev team for not working hard enough.

In development, I also tend to take work home with me, which means I rarely get down time for myself/family. In support, that's impossible.

A lot of the decision is down to the amount of money they're offering really I suppose. The extra stress/workload would be worth it if they wanted to double my pay.

I suppose I could always apply for it, have the interview etc, and then I could turn it down if I wasn't interested at that point. It'd also demonstrate to the company that I'm keen to move forward, but only if it was right for me.

Hmmm, long contemplations ahead I think...

[Bibio]

only thing i can say is when an IT company starts getting into financial troubble the first people to go are usually the support/tech staff. the support/tech usually gets outsourced then its all the hangers oners that go next. develipers are usually the last people to get the boot.

keep an eye on whats going on and vacancys. dont push, drop hints that you wuld be intrested if any developers positions come up (oviously to the right ears) and bide your time.

with more money always comes more stress/work load.

[MiniMatt]

Do it :D In my rarely humble opinion customer facing support is the 9th circle of hell. No matter how good the first line folks are you always somehow end up talking to someone who inserted a jam sandwich into a switch gbic port (in order to enable "sticky" port security of course) and is incencsed WITH YOU that his switch is now broken.

[kwak zzr]

i did this recently (feb) took the plunge and optied for more money and more stress, i find the job difficult but more rewarding + my 10hr day seems like 5hrs because i'm always busy.

[CoolGirl]

you've got to be in it to win it. As Jayne said, you can go through the whole process, get offered the post, and if it doesn't feel right, say 'no'. (and if they make you lots of promises, get them in writing).

[Biker Biggles]

Dont know,but basic advice------Go for the job where you are happy to be at work.
Theres nothing worse than being in a job you hate whatever the money.

[glsuk1970]

More money and not customer facing? Baph, what are you waiting for??? :confused:

[stewie]

Thres no harm in going for an interview mate, see what they,ve got to say for themselves and see whats on offer, go for it mate, good luck.

[Mr Speirs]

If you are reasonably happy in your job now then you need to make it worthwhile for you to take the development role. Id go to the interview with a firm set of conditions (i.e. salary, completely cut ties from support role etc) that if they would be prepared to meet you would take the job and if not you don't.
You don't have to make any sacrifices then. You would only take the job knowing and happy with what to expect.

[custard]

if its something you would enjoy doing without the crap you experienced in the previous similar role then why not?

if they pay more money, and you enjoy doing it then double bonus.

and if developers are one of the last lots to go in case of financial meltdown then you have a bit more security which at the moment aint a bad thing!

suck it and see i reckon.

[BillyC]

I've worked as a software developer for 10 years, and that has also brought a natural role of 3rd line support. These days I have a management feather in my cap, which brings extra stresses of planning and overseeing projects, and managing staff.

My advice for you is that you're going nowhere very fast in a pure support role - these roles are almost always only good as a stepping stone to other more technical roles, or the dead-end of service desk manager.

So I absolutely think that you should make the move to development. Now this isn't for everyone, so please consider a few points: Do you have the mind for it? You must be logical and procedural, seeing the natural process in everything. That's what programming is about - the language is just how you express that. Are you creative? Ultimately writing code and designing applications, whatever they are, is a purely creative activity, and sometimes your imagination is the most useful tool in the box, or outside of it if you know what I mean.

Finally, as a programmer, always be open and upfront... it takes some experience to know how long things take, and to be clear about the risks that can be involved - project managers will always want to know about this, and that is a two-way relationship. Only you manage and set your deadlines, the project manager just has to plan around them.

And one last thought - be mindful of the development technologies you'd be working with - .Net is in, most other things are out. Keeping "current" is one of the hardest things in development, but fortunately the big changes only happen every 5-10 years or so.

Good luck.

[Baph]

Thanks for the replies folks, you're echoing mostly what my thoughts were (take the interview, then reject it if I don't like the offer on the table).


Re the financial risks on the company, I don't see that happening any time soon. The company recently cut one of it's arms off (literally) as it was making a loss of £400,000 per month. When they were making that loss in the LBO sector, the entire company had an overall profit just shy of 9 figures!

Billy, as you appear (from the posts in this thread) to have the most relevant experience...
My advice for you is that you're going nowhere very fast in a pure support role - these roles are almost always only good as a stepping stone to other more technical roles, or the dead-end of service desk manager.


From my previous employer, I walked out under my own terms & took 4 months off work thanks to the "redundancy" package I enforced. I took this job as the money was starting to run low, and basically just as something to pay the bills until something better came along.

It's an OK job I suppose, most of the time I'm paid for doing next to nothing. But the boredom is sometimes a killer, and I'd prefer to be busy (just not stressed all the time). The main reason for walking from the old company was (as posted before) that the dev team were getting the blame for not meeting impossible deadlines set by sales.


So I absolutely think that you should make the move to development. Now this isn't for everyone, so please consider a few points: Do you have the mind for it? You must be logical and procedural, seeing the natural process in everything. That's what programming is about - the language is just how you express that. Are you creative? Ultimately writing code and designing applications, whatever they are, is a purely creative activity, and sometimes your imagination is the most useful tool in the box, or outside of it if you know what I mean.

Finally, as a programmer, always be open and upfront... it takes some experience to know how long things take, and to be clear about the risks that can be involved - project managers will always want to know about this, and that is a two-way relationship. Only you manage and set your deadlines, the project manager just has to plan around them.


I've worked as what I refer to as a "code monkey" (ok, so programmer, but code monkey gets more funny looks when talking to someone you've just met) in various different companies, covering various different languages. I'm also working on a couple of code projects outside the office, so the mindset thing isn't really a problem. ;)

As for managing deadlines, these would unfortunately be out of my hands, it would be a case of "this is the work that needs doing, you have this long to complete it."


And one last thought - be mindful of the development technologies you'd be working with - .Net is in, most other things are out. Keeping "current" is one of the hardest things in development, but fortunately the big changes only happen every 5-10 years or so.


Everything in this company is in Java, running on win32, specifically XPEmbedded. Usual stuff like Tomcat, RDBMS, UML, JSP, RCP, SVN/CVS, and the best part for me, is that it's all done with Eclipse (since Eclipse is my IDE of choice for Java). I don't see that changing ever, but I'm able to bring things like Ant to the table, which could see the company migrating away from MicroSoft & ditching the cost of licences etc.

Time will tell I suppose, but I reckon I'll have the interview, and go from there.

Thanks for the sounding board .Org. ;)

[SV-net]

Why do companies that we already work for ask us for a CV to switch roles on offer? they already know everything about us!

And why should current employees be asked to APPLY for new higher/better positions.
Surely if the `management` feel we are suitable they should OFFER the job outright in the first place.

rant over:-)

[Baph]

Why do companies that we already work for ask us for a CV to switch roles on offer? they already know everything about us!

And why should current employees be asked to APPLY for new higher/better positions.
Surely if the `management` feel we are suitable they should OFFER the job outright in the first place.

rant over:-)
For small companies I agree. However, I work for a company that's far from small.

In this case, the manager of the department hasn't got a clue who I am from Adam, and a CV is a pretty good introduction for a business. Then he can always chat to my boss about me.

Though I will have to have an interview as well, but I suppose that's just a formalised chat between me & the relevant manager to find out if we're both happy about it.

(It was actually the development manager's boss who told me about the up coming vacancy as I've helped him out with UAT etc in the past).